ar for 3 gun

[desmo]

i want to start shooying 3 gun next year, and want to do so with the ar i already have it is a bushmaster dcm. so i figure easiest way is to buy a new upper. any suggestions, on barrel length, ect. thanks joe

[Sgt]

In 3-gun competition you have several divisions. The divisions are based on the type of weapons you are shooting. There is a division for people who want to shoot iron sighted rifle (my son shoots this division). You could use your rifle as it is for now. You would want a semi-auto handgun and a shotgun. A semi-auto shotgun would be a little faster but not necessary while you are learning the ropes.

Go to a couple shoots with what you have. Then open up the wallet :banana: . The nice thing about 3-gun shooting. It is three times more addicting and three times more expensive. After a couple of shoots you will see what others are using and may find something that meets your needs.

Also check www.brianenos.com. They have a section specifically for 3-gun comptetition in that Forum.

[Hozer]

Your DCM/CMP will certainly work, but a lighter top end with a break will help tons.

I cringe just thinking about a 30+ round stage and a nice Krieger or Lilja barrel getting beat up...

Eventually you might find the two stage trigger is a pain.

[BerKim]

I'll 2nd the Brian Enos forum.. best 3Gun site I've ever found..

First decide on a Divsion (Open, Tactical, Limited [iron sights]), then try a few out..

The rifles for Open and Tactical are pretty close with Open usually having 2 Optics, and maybe a bipod, usually the pistol or shotgun is the biggest determining factor about the division.

[rhino465]

Originally posted by desmo
i want to start shooying 3 gun next year, and want to do so with the ar i already have it is a bushmaster dcm. so i figure easiest way is to buy a new upper. any suggestions, on barrel length, ect. thanks joe

Your best bet is to shoot a few matches with what you have now, and then decide what you want to do.

If you want a top end just for playing 3-gun, then I'd get either the complete upper/barrel/etc. of a Gator from Clark Custom, or something from JP. The Gator is heavy, but the complete guns are really nice and they don't move at all when you shoot them.

In general, you'll probably want:

18.5 to 20 inch light or medium contour barrel
freefloating handguard
rifle length gas system
compensator (JP tank brake for open, or the JP/Cooley or Miculek comp for Limited/Tactical)
flat top upper
your favorite removable iron sights, either flip-up or not
your favorite optic and mounting hardware
For open you'll also want a good bipod

In terms of optics, it will depend heavily on personal preference and the distances you will commonly shoot in your rifle stages. If you know for certain you will be shooting at 100 yards and less, you'll probably want a red dot. That means either an Aimpoint (Comp M3 or ML3) or an EOTech. The Aimpoint will need a mount (the Larue with throw levers is the best), but you can mount the EOTech directly on the flat top if you want.

If you're going to be shooting at longer distances on a regular basis, a low power variable telescope is (in my opinion), the best solution. Anything with 1X to 1.5X power on the low end, usually going up to 4X to 6X on the top. With a good cheek weld and some practice, you will be about as fast 1-1.5X on close stuff as you would be with a red dot. Then, for longer distances or when you need to see better, you can increase the magnification as needed, especially if you're able to shoot from some kind of support position like prone.

[desmo]

thanks for the input. i am alredy shooting uspsa at a local club, and doing ok( last match 4th in limited )
i also havealredy been reading like a madman on brianenos it is a wealth of knowledge. thanks again for the input,looks like its time to order some more toys.. joe

[jm951]

You could always depart sanity and shoot Heavy Metal :supergrin:


As is, I'd just shoot what you have, hang out on Enos' board and get educated, then evaluate what matches you are most likely to shoot within reason. If all your club matches are sub 100yd, there's no real reason to set up for 200+yd shots. Stages will be really extended CQB stuff. The cool thing about the AR platform is the upper interchangability without having to purchase an entire rifle.

One last thing, don't neglect practicing with the shotgun. If you analyze the scores, shotgun reload times are often the match deciders.

[desmo]

thanks for the advice jm, i just had a buddy come up with a good deal on a bushmaster m4 upper i don't know if i can pass up. i will be using my 11-87 for shot gun and am very comfortable with it.
you can never have enogh practice though. this year is my first step into shooting while moving , i have always been standing still(trap, smallbore silhoute, high power) and now that i have been shooting uspsa i am hooked.
on another note i just picked up a s&w 625 45 acp any other revolver fans. i plan to sey it up for uspsa next spring

[jm951]

One other comment here, make darn sure that whatever ammo you're using is 100% reliable and makes the correct power factor. I've seen guys lose bigtime on stages when their weapons malfunction because of ammo that the gun doesn't really like. In the case mentioned, it is possible to have ammo that works fine when shooting at a slow, relaxed pace. The gun doesn't heat up to the same point it would in a match, and that point might lead to a failure to feed malfunction.

I had the problem crop up in my first 3 gun shotgun, a Mossy 500. It shot fine when popping skeet or hunting, but on a hot day with a fast string of shots, the extractors would fail to exert enough grip to extract the hulls. I tracked this back to a hot chamber coupled with worn extractor claws. Good excuse to get another shotgun anyway, especially since I found a smoking deal on a virtuallly new 1100. (No, it wasn't "hot", just a friend who needed cash quick.) Point is, make sure your "match" ammo is reliable under "match" conditions.

Welcome to the 3 Gun addiction!!

[desmo]

what kind of shot gun are you using? i will not be reloading, yet. i don't want to shoot something under powerd,or overpowerd.

[rhino465]

I've never been to a match where shotgun was chrono'd. I'd worry over power factor with rifle and pistol, and make sure you shotgun loads will take down steel at the distances you'll be shooting.

For instance, a Texas Star at 25-30 yards can be difficult (understatement) for a gun with a cylinder bore and cheap #7-1/2 shot target loads. A modified choke will go a long way to solving that problem, as will larger shot. I use a modified and #4s. It's not ideal for hitting flying clays (or even stationary clays) such as from flippers, but I know the steel is going down if I hit it.

[Hozer]

For long range steel plates or poppers I just toss some #4 buck at them through a light mod choke.

[jm951]

I'm using a Rem1100 with most of the "guts" from a 1100CM. It's been very reliable with all ammo I've tried through it thus far. The main keys to Rem1100 reliability are gas port size, condition of the O ring and lubrication.

#1 through a modified choke will put down most steel with authority if you do your part. The key here is to be sure where your shotgun patterns in relation to the sights. Different shot can pattern to different points of aim out of the same shotgun. BTW- shotgun ammo isn't chronoed. HOWEVER, there are loads out there called "tactical" that are essentially reduced power rounds that might not reliably cycle some shotguns. Just because it has the "tactical" label doesn't mean it's the last word in ammo. Experiment with what's available out of your gun at ranges you'd be likely to see. Don't be afraid of trying odd ball cheapie stuff either, it might shoot pretty darn good out of your gun.

Rifle and handgun ammo may well be chronoed at some larger matches, be ready for that. Don't trust a box label that gives a velocity number. Make sure your gun, with that ammo, meets pf. "Most" factory ammo will make pf with a comfortable margin. It's when you handload that you're more likely to have a problem. Again, test your guns with the ammo of choice.