View Full Version : Putting lasers on my G22, 23, and 27
I am putting lasers on my 22, 23, and 27 to accompany they TruGlo TFO night-sights.
However, I did some searching around on the forum and I can't figure out what the best way to go is.
I like the idea of Lasermax, but I don't know how accurate they are or how long they last with all of that recoil present.
Crimson Trace grips are another thought, but I also know little about them, how comfortable they are, how accurate they are, or if they affect holster options at all somehow.
I'm not keen on any rail-mount system as I'd like to hold that available in case I want to have flashlights for my Glocks too. You never know. I don't like the Harries technique so I may very well buy a light or two to mount.
Any information people have on the current best way to go for lasers would be appreciated.
I originally really wanted to go with a green-laser (I know there is no actual green-laser diode and that it's an IR diode) as I thought the additional brightness would be better - but I did some reading from past threads here that suggested that this isn't the case and that battery life would be an issue. So red will have to do. A major factor with this purchase though is how long it will last. I'd like something that will last a long time!
Thanks.
My only experiance with lasers is the crimson trace grips on my j-frame smith and it is an amazing product. My friend has a lasermax in his G-26, he likes it but I would never get one. I have heard of it going out of wack for some people but I hear the customer service is great. Also, you have to turn it on with a switch which eliminates any practical use for defensive carry (I think). Third, The lens gets dirty after a decent shooting session which isnt a huge deal but still something to consider. I choose to leave my glocks stock so that means no swapping out any pieces for a lasermax. I hope my opinion was helpfull.:cheers:
I got the LaserMax for my Glock 19 early this week and I used it first time today at the range. I liked it, it seems to help accuracy, its really cool and gets people's attention. One thing I noticed (not sure if its normal) the light would turn off (by itself) after each shot !!! I'm going to call LaserMax's customer service to ask them.
8541/9999
10-22-2006, 08:38
The reason it keeps coming on after each shot is you never put in the lasermax spring into the frame of the Glock receiver. I know this because you said in an earlier post that you kept the factory spring in the frame. It is specifically designed to work with new take down switch you were provided. If you look at it carefully you will see a waffle end on it. That works with the disembly switch so that you can turn it on and off completely. As far as activation on the Glocks all you have to do is use your index finger of your firing hand or any finger from your non firing hand. Easy to do even with gloves on and does not slow down your draw. This allows you to maintain your firing grip. Other designs you may have to keep a certain amount of pressure on the grip while trying to independenly apply pressure with your trigger finger to activate your trigger. As far as reliability the Glock design was tested for over 20,000 rounds to make sure it will hold up to all kind of firing pressure. It is stronger than the origional glock guide rods. it will take a repeated drop to conctete from 6 feet with no change in point of aim or impact. It will survive 66 ft underwater. It works, It shoots.
devildog341
10-26-2006, 13:47
I am looking at getting a Lasermax too for my G27. I decided against the Crimson Trace because while there is a master off switch on other pistol models, there is none for the Glock. There are times I don't want the laser to always come on when I grip it. Crimson Trace advised to relax the grip so it won't engage, but I don't like the idea of having to tighten and relax my grip like that. It may not be as big a problem as I think it might, but I I'll just go with the Lasermax since I can switch it on with relative ease when drawing if needed.
Crimson trace greaps are very confrotable.
I thought they wouldbt but they are.
I have shot with them on a GLOCK 23.
Just a thought. Others have mentioned they dont like the crimson trace grip because there is no master switch. In my little experiance I will tell you, you need to either look at the dot or the sights. Switching back and forth will drive you crazy. But... Everyone should be decent with the stock sights before upgrading to anything else. :wavey:
bought lasermax's for my 22, 23, and 27
So now each has a TruGlo TFO and a Lasermax.
Now all that's left is to pick a tactical light (for use in my home when it's dark and the alarm has gone off). I want something LED based. I'll look into that. It would just be for either the 22 or the 23.
Then figure out what ammo I like for the trio and buy it by the case.
Congrats on the LaserMax purchases! :thumbsup:
For weapon mounted lights, I like these two best, since I'd unlikely pursue a perp outside the house...
1) SureFire X200B A short burst off the ceiling lights a room!
2) TLR-1 A whole lot of light for the money!
--Ray
ChrisG23
10-27-2006, 03:14
Was a laser / light combo such as the m6x, or the tlr-2 not in your consideration? the only drawback is the holster situation if you want to carry w/light installed. But it would be cheaper than 3 separate lasermax systems.
Deputy224
10-27-2006, 04:38
I have to agree. A weapon light combo from stream light would suit your needs perfectly. You can always get a belt pouch to carry it seperately. It only take a moment to attach.
Yes. The TLR-2 would have been an economical choice to get both. Its what I did but I only have the one Glock with a rail. But then again that could end up temporary. I prefered the idea of being able to move the laser/ light combo to anything with a rail. Or course a rail can be put on a lot of things that doesn't have one as well. For instance a shot gun.
I have a set of Crimson Trace grips on my little 38 spl. They work great. In that case there is a master on off switch on that grip. I believe its just the Glock ones that they could not incorporate one into. Maybe a few other auto's too but I don't recall. Which is another reason I opted for the TLR-2.
That and the practicle economy and versatility of it.
For $200 its a great choice if you have (or can have) a rail for it.
While the last three posts make perfect sense economically, there is an advantage to independent and redundant systems: If one unit goes down, or is out for service, the other remains and functions. This is the NASA approach to system building. If you're willing to spend the $$$, it's a good way to go.
We've had thousands of trouble-free rounds with LaserMax in our G19 & G21, and the units are always ready, good to go. The units holding their collimation has been a non-issue. The recoil springs are actually a bit stronger than stock. Both lasers are still on original batteries from Nov/Feb purchases. But yes, they are gun-specific, dedicated lasers. I suppose one could swap springs and capture collars, and move the units between like frame sizes, and to be fair here, most LaserMax models fit a couple of Glocks each--my G21 LaserMax is rated for use in G20.
Still, with all of the above considered, the new Uni-Max interests me greatly. You still keep independence & redundancy, but you can readily move the laser to any rail-equipped gun, and stack a tac light on the Uni-Max's built-in rail. And at $189.00, combined with, say, a TLR-1, it's similar in cost to many laser/light combos.
--Ray
Thats certainly not bad logic at all.
However the entire set up if you start with a base of $189 then add a TLR-1 is then another $99. So not at all that much more than getting them all in one package like a TLR-2 for $199.
But you make a valid point if you can go around a few different Glocks with one. However if you intent is to go to a totaly different gun with the system... then it becomes less practicle and versitile.
But they more than one way to skin this cat... which is good.
I didn't want a combo for two reasons:
1) Redundancy as mentioned
2) With a combo if I want just the laser I get a light+laser, if I want just a light I get a light+laser. Should I want to carry the 27 or the 23, I wouldn't really need to carry a light on it, but the laser would be handy, so having the option to just have a laser was important, and especially having something that wouldn't need a special holster.
Chances are if anything I might carry the 27, in which case just having a laser is the only option as there are no rails on it.
The lasermax option was more expensive, but I was ok with that.
Plus, cost really isn't an option when we're talking about anything with "frickin' laser beams". I just need some ill-tempered sea-bass now and I'm set. :tongueout:
btw - I didn't realize that the lasermax systems flash rapidly when on.
That's neat. A good idea. Makes it easier to see.
No, I understand...
But just so you understand that your assumption may be wrong about the features of a combo Light/lazer system. I am not certain I am reading what you said right but just in case... Let me clarify that for you. The TLR-2 has a switch that allows you to chose any combination of the two main features of it that you want on at any time. You can chose Light only, Lazer only, Both at same time or momentary illumination of any of those combo's. Just so you know for later so you can make a informed choice. And just so we on the same page.
My main reason for going the way you did was for a slimmer package and fitting it into a standard holster. That would be my application for it. Otherwise you have to use a Holster that has the buldge for the lamp. They do make them. But same problem if you do go with a tactical light anyway. Or you will have to remove and pouch your light for carry. Same issue with the combination one.
In my case this was the house gun. So it got the TLR-2. However I probably will NOT go this way with the next carry gun I build up. It most likely will be the same way you went. And that will be a specific use weapon. More than likely a G36. But for now that particular gun (the concealer carry one) is a 38spl with a Crimson Trace laser grip on it.
Originally posted by cphilip
No, I understand...
But just so you understand that your assumption may be wrong about the features of a combo Light/lazer system. I am not certain I am reading what you said right but just in case... Let me clarify that for you. The TLR-2 has a switch that allows you to chose any combination of the two main features of it that you want on at any time. You can chose Light only, Lazer only, Both at same time or momentary illumination of any of those combo's. Just so you know for later so you can make a informed choice. And just so we on the same page.
My main reason for going the way you did was for a slimmer package and fitting it into a standard holster. That would be my application for it. Otherwise you have to use a Holster that has the buldge for the lamp. They do make them. But same problem if you do go with a tactical light anyway. Or you will have to remove and pouch your light for carry. Same issue with the combination one.
In my case this was the house gun. So it got the TLR-2. However I probably will NOT go this way with the next carry gun I build up. It most likely will be the same way you went. And that will be a specific use weapon. More than likely a G36. But for now that particular gun (the concealer carry one) is a 38spl with a Crimson Trace laser grip on it.
Right.
We're on the same page. You can turn on one or the other, but you can't carry one or the other.
That was what I was saying. If you want to carry just the laser and not the light, you still have to carry both, or if you want to carry just the light and not the laser, you still have to carry both.
We're saying the same thing. Sorry if I was unclear.
ChrisG23
10-27-2006, 23:36
moshe, those are valid points for using two diferrent systems, and that finding a holster for a laser/light combo is tricky.
i do like the lasermax, but a few things bother me.
1) the tendancy for the laser to come on by itself while shooting.
2) i dont like the switch location.
other than that its a good system, probably one of the most acurate l/sights on the market, but still a few too many kinks...imo. i know most are very satisfied, and i might be to if i purchades, but im picky.... i want flawless, and thats not yet available.
Originally posted by ChrisG23
moshe, those are valid points for using two diferrent systems, and that finding a holster for a laser/light combo is tricky.
i do like the lasermax, but a few things bother me.
1) the tendancy for the laser to come on by itself while shooting.
2) i dont like the switch location.
other than that its a good system, probably one of the most acurate l/sights on the market, but still a few too many kinks...imo. i know most are very satisfied, and i might be to if i purchades, but im picky.... i want flawless, and thats not yet available.
The switch I'll have to get used to. Mine are still tight too so I'll need to break them in I suppose somehow.
I can agree it would be nice if the switch was somewhere else closer to your trigger finger.
Deputy224
10-28-2006, 05:59
Many good points have been made redgarding the most efficient way to solve the laser/light issue. I think what it really comes down to is how much you are willing to spend, and what you are going to carry. The LaserMax systems are weapon specific. I could only see myself going that route if was going to carry a sub compact. In addition, deputies in my Agencey that used the LaserMax always had issues with the system turning on and off during strings of fire. This can be a serious problem. Personally I would never carry just a laser system which is why I optioned for the light laser combo. If I am going to need a laser, I am probably also going to need a light. I honestly can't imagine where I would need one and never the other. Having used the M6 combo extensively, I would not want anything else for night shooting.I think if you have to rely on a laser to hit your target, maybe you need to back to basic shooting skills. The laser has 3 practical uses.
1. In combination with a scope on a long gun.
2. In addition to a proper sight picture as an aid.
3. As an intimidation factor for the ignorant.
This is just my 2 cents. Do what makes you happy, but lasers alone can be more of a problem than helpful to the shooter.
Originally posted by Deputy224
1) In addition, deputies in my Agencey that used the LaserMax always had issues with the system turning on and off during strings of fire. This can be a serious problem.
2) Personally I would never carry just a laser system which is why I optioned for the light laser combo. If I am going to need a laser, I am probably also going to need a light. I honestly can't imagine where I would need one and never the other.
3) Having used the M6 combo extensively, I would not want anything else for night shooting. I think if you have to rely on a laser to hit your target, maybe you need to back to basic shooting skills. The laser has 3 practical uses.
4) As an intimidation factor for the ignorant.
**********
1) I'm not an easy grader, and if I had such recurrent problems, I'd complain--and loudly! My G21 W/LM has turned itself on 3X in something like 7500+ rounds. Our last session with guns in full regalia, was using Double Tap ammo, with no problems.
Judy's G19 W/LM has been flawless; period.
Not to make excuses, but could this be a .40 caliber thingy? :headscratch:
2) I tend to agree. But what I like are independent and redundant systems, that function separately from one another--but work in concert harmony. :music:
If my LaserMax dies, my SureFire works, and vice-versa. If both laser and light fail, I've still got my Meps, or Trijs, or whatever. If they all work--and I'm not too busy admiring them :freak: --look out!
There's an inherent reliability in separate, redundant systems.
3) I'm right with you here. You can dance or you can't. :dancing:
4) Here I take exception. I'm not ignorant; and if I see that dot, pulsating or not, red or green (hell, pick your color), on my center-mass, I want you to know that I'm all kinds of open to whatever philosophy floats your laser-guided gun-toting boat! :bowdown: Yup, you da man! :thumbsup:
--Ray
Originally posted by Moshe
The switch I'll have to get used to. Mine are still tight too so I'll need to break them in I suppose somehow.
Eyes open. :shocked: With a clear chamber, and empty magazine, try it with the slide cocked. Now, isn't that better? :thumbsup:
With regard to the switch reach, I find it easy, but ergonomics are a highly personal thing. ;)
Now, do some dry-fire practice at home, get that trigger technique down, then get your butt to the range! :supergrin:
--Ray
Deputy224
10-28-2006, 06:56
Ray
I think you misunderstood #4. People see lasers on them and being generally brainwashed from the movies tend to think the laser means more than it does. As you restated, you can either dance or you can't. So the ignorant people are the ones getting lit up with the lasers, not the person using it.
Also, I think night sights are a mandatory item on a pistol. I have experienced M6 units that had a light burn out and the laser worked fine. I've never seen a laser burn out yet though.
It sounds to me like you have had some great luck with your LaserMax units. I have just seen too many exhibit too many problems. I'll grant you most of these units were in 9mm Sig226's but I still feel the same.
Originally posted by Deputy224
Ray
A) I think you misunderstood #4. People see lasers on them and being generally brainwashed from the movies tend to think the laser means more than it does. As you restated, you can either dance or you can't. So the ignorant people are the ones getting lit up with the lasers, not the person using it.
B) Also, I think night sights are a mandatory item on a pistol. I have experienced M6 units that had a light burn out and the laser worked fine. I've never seen a laser burn out yet though.
C) It sounds to me like you have had some great luck with your LaserMax units. I have just seen too many exhibit too many problems. I'll grant you most of these units were in 9mm Sig226's but I still feel the same.
A) If your trigger technique is good, the laser does mean what the perp thinks it means. :shocked:
B) LEDs will rule in this arena, because they pretty much don't burn out. They're incredibly rugged, and their lives are measured in thousands of hours. But we still need new battery technology.
C) We have been very pleased with our LaserMax units. But I think people are generally honest about such things. I mean, why lie? To what end? So, if some have had problems, I tend to believe their claims, for the most part.
Too many LaserMax complaints on this forum have been answered with silence, when qualified people asked the particulars of a problem. To me, that smells...
Check this link: http://www.commtechreview.net/firearms/lasermax.htm
If I'm on my third Volkswagen, and you got a lemon your first time out, we're never going to agree, are we? :eyebrow:
So, I guess an outboard mounted laser, such as Crimson Trace or Uni-Max, or many of the others out there, should assuage most concerns.
--Ray
Bear Rider
10-29-2006, 00:40
Ctfam,
I have a first-generation set of CTs on my 1911, and in several years of shooting with them, I have never found the laser dot to be a disctraction when both it and the standard sights are visible (I don't have night sights because I can't focus on them in dim light). If your are truly concentrating on your sights, you won't even notice the red dot except after the fact.
If a little thing like that dot distracts you, I hope that you never come under fire. :supergrin:
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