IDPA divisions for XD and M&P

[Glock Dave]

Please settle a debate for me. A friend wants to buy either a springfield XD or S&W M&P and plans to use it for IDPA. There was some confusion by some shooters as to whether they can be used in the SSP division. I have heard that the XD must be used in ESP but wasn't sure. And what about the M&P. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

[Jim Watson]

The XC is an ESP, no doubt about it.
The Plastic M&P is apparently a SSP, they let E. Langdon enter one in SSP in the Carolina Cup.

[dosei]

The XD fully cocks the striker, pulling the trigger only deactivate internal safeties and drops the sear. So it has to play with the other single actions in ESP or CDP, and it is not allowed in SSP.

The M&P partially cocks the striker (just like a Glock). Pulling the trigger deactivates internal safeties, pulls the striker back to the fully cocked position, and drops the sear (again, same as the Glock). So it is allowed in SSP.

[Glock Dave]

thanks for the info guys. much appreciated.

[Alaskapopo]

We have been allowing XD's in stock service pistol.
Pat

[Joe D]

Wait until I tell Bill Wilson about your blatant disregard of his well thought out rules. You probably don't give anyone a Procedural for dumping rounds either.

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by Joe D
Wait until I tell Bill Wilson about your blatant disregard of his well thought out rules. You probably don't give anyone a Procedural for dumping rounds either.

Lol

Its not my club. I would get rid of the stupid procedural for dropping live mags however. Tactical reloads are about the least used reload in actual gunfights. Run dry reloads are more important followed by speed loads.
Pat

[BuckyP]

Originally posted by dosei
The XD fully cocks the striker, pulling the trigger only deactivate internal safeties and drops the sear. So it has to play with the other single actions in ESP or CDP, and it is not allowed in SSP.

The M&P partially cocks the striker (just like a Glock). Pulling the trigger deactivates internal safeties, pulls the striker back to the fully cocked position, and drops the sear (again, same as the Glock). So it is allowed in SSP.

I'd tend to disagree on that. Mechanically speaking, from what I can tell, the M&P appears to be fully cocked in the same manner as the XD. However, Springfield registered the XD as a Single Action handgun and S&W registered the M&P as a double action.

Based on that, IDPA classifies them as such, with single actions not allowed in SSP.

[Mayonaise]

Originally posted by BuckyP
However, Springfield registered the XD as a Single Action handgun and S&W registered the M&P as a double action.


Actually it was designated as a SA trigger by the manufacturer before Springfield had anything to do with the gun. It was the HS2000 (The Croatian Sensation) back then.

[J.P.]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
We have been allowing XD's in stock service pistol.
Pat
Why doesn't that suprise me?

[Alaskapopo]

I am going to have to make a correction. Our club was following the rules and XD's are in enhanced service pistol. My mistake. We have quite a few XD's at our IDPA shoots. mostly 9mm's and a few 45's.
Pat

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by J.P.
Why doesn't that suprise me?

Trying to start a fight again why doesn't that suprise me. :upeyes: Welcome to ignore.
Pat

[J.P.]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
Trying to start a fight again why doesn't that suprise me. :upeyes: Welcome to ignore.
Pat
I'm not trying to start a fight,brother,never have.
Merely suggesting that matches up yonder seem to march to the beat of a different drum.
Personally,I think that XD,M&P and Glock should all be in SSP.
not my call though.

[J.P.]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
I am going to have to make a correction. Our club was following the rules and XD's are in enhanced service pistol. My mistake. We have quite a few XD's at our IDPA shoots. mostly 9mm's and a few 45's.
Pat
It's a rip-off too!
Stock XDs competing against barely legal STI 9mms is hardly a level playing field,IMO

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by J.P.
I'm not trying to start a fight,brother,never have.
Merely suggesting that matches up yonder seem to march to the beat of a different drum.
Personally,I think that XD,M&P and Glock should all be in SSP.
not my call though.

Perhaps I jumped the gun. I agree that all the guns you mentioned should be in SSP. I also would not mind them lifting the mag limit from 10 rounds to what ever the gun natrually carries. Thats comming from a low cap mag user.

Sorry for jumping the gun and taking offense to your comment when none was ment. That was my fault. I appoligize. Have fun down there. Maybe I will see you at Nationals.
Pat

[J.P.]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
I also would not mind them lifting the mag limit from 10 rounds to what ever the gun natrually carries.
If we did that,everyone would use Glocks.
Oh wait......they do!
:supergrin:

[Alaskapopo]

In stock service pistol your right they would and do. With the 34 being the dominate gun.

In custom defense pistol 1911's would continue to dominate. But they would move from single stack guns to double stack guns.
Pat

[Joe D]

You know I looked at a M&P the other day. Unless my old myopic eyes are fooling me I swear the trigger bar does not appear to cock the striker. Maybe I need a closer look.

[Jim Watson]

The power of advertising, Joe.
The early XD importers, in their frantic efforts to distance themselves from Glock, made it clear that the XD striker was at full cock and safety depended on the grip safety and the long two stage trigger pull. What it did was cost them any possibility of US police sales. IDPA is small potatoes and in any event there are already 2-lb trigger jobs available to make them competitive with .38 Supers. USPSA puts them in Production any old how.
S& W Plastic M&P promotion was smarter, they made sure they got classed as equivalent to DA no matter where the striker is. Result, lots of institutional business, and a SSP entry. With available 2-lb trigger, just like Glock and XD.

[BuckyP]

RE: Running at full capacity:

Originally posted by J.P.
If we did that,everyone would use Glocks.
Oh wait......they do!
:supergrin:

Glocks don't own the capacity advantage any more (though they had it for some time). The M&P, PX4 and 90Two all come with 17 round magazines. Some of the 90Two mags accept an 18th. Also, there is a CZ variant that comes with a 19 round mag (used at IPSC world shoot at an advantage). Para LDA is 18 rounds too.

[BuckyP]

Originally posted by J.P.
It's a rip-off too!
Stock XDs competing against barely legal STI 9mms is hardly a level playing field,IMO

Have you had a chance to handle an XD with a well done trigger job? A good friend of mine has been shooting XDs all year with much success. His trigger pull is a little over two pounds and it's pre-travel and over travel isn't much more than a well tuned 1911.

While some would argue you can do the same thing to a Glock, however I don't believe you could shorten trigger pull that much without defeating the drop safety mechanism, which is a no-no in IDPA.

[BuckyP]

Originally posted by Jim Watson
The power of advertising, Joe.
The early XD importers, in their frantic efforts to distance themselves from Glock, made it clear that the XD striker was at full cock and safety depended on the grip safety and the long two stage trigger pull. What it did was cost them any possibility of US police sales. IDPA is small potatoes and in any event there are already 2-lb trigger jobs available to make them competitive with .38 Supers. USPSA puts them in Production any old how.
S& W Plastic M&P promotion was smarter, they made sure they got classed as equivalent to DA no matter where the striker is. Result, lots of institutional business, and a SSP entry. With available 2-lb trigger, just like Glock and XD.

Not sure it's just the advetising, didn't they "register" the gun as a DA? Too bad S&W didn't claim their 1911 line to be DA only, we could be shooting 1911s in SSP :banana:

[Jim Watson]

I didn't know there was a requirement or provision to "register" an action type. I figure it is mostly based on talking fast to the purchasing agents.

[Joe D]

I would never buy a gun that I could not get parts for - XD.

[Suburban]

Originally posted by BuckyP
Have you had a chance to handle an XD with a well done trigger job? A good friend of mine has been shooting XDs all year with much success. His trigger pull is a little over two pounds and it's pre-travel and over travel isn't much more than a well tuned 1911.

While some would argue you can do the same thing to a Glock, however I don't believe you could shorten trigger pull that much without defeating the drop safety mechanism, which is a no-no in IDPA.

I've shortened pre-travel just to the point that the trigger resets, and the drop safety still works... barely. However, the trigger needs to be drilled to make the trigger safety lever work again. I'm not sure about IDPA, but that doesn't fly in USPSA Production.

[Motor-T]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
I also would not mind them lifting the mag limit from 10 rounds to what ever the gun natrually carries. Thats comming from a low cap mag user.


I Disagree. The mag capacity rule keeps the reload skill in the game. My glock naturally carries 18 rounds. I have never fired more than 18 rounds in any stage. If the 10 round rule were rescinded many shooters would never reload while shooting IDPA.

[shootingbuff]

Just a hi-cap div is all that is needed. That way those that can't don't have to worry about it. It would be one div only.

sb

[Motor-T]

Originally posted by shootingbuff
Just a hi-cap div is all that is needed. That way those that can't don't have to worry about it. It would be one div only.

sb
Great idea.

[J.P.]

Well since CQB...er....I mean...CDP has to reload, you can count on everyone else having to reload. ;)

[Steve Koski]

10 round rule needs to stay, for the same reasons a lot of "playing field leveler" rules need to stay.

[Alaskapopo]

Why level the playing field when its not level on the street. I know what your saying and I agree mostly but I also think a highcap division would be great. Or an open division where anything that you use on the street can be used in the match including high cap magazines laser sights ect.
Pat

[shootingbuff]

Originally posted by J.P.
It's a rip-off too!
Stock XDs competing against barely legal STI 9mms is hardly a level playing field,IMO

Man you have not seen a XD Tac in 45ACP shooting minor with dawsons and a 2lb trigger.

Run what you bring and take note if the gun is legal don't hate the player hate the game.

sb