Getting GPS coordinates? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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lomfs24
11-21-2006, 15:34
OK, so I am looking at a map and I see a section of state land that I want to go hunt. It's accessible by a public road but the land owners around it don't want me to hunt on their land. Now, I have a map that shows the piece, and it had GPS grid lines that are 7 1/2 minutes apart. How do I go about getting the exact coordinates for the corners of the state land so I can go and hunt it without worrying about being on private property?

State land out here is notoriously vaguely marked or is not marked at all. Often times there are fences running through it that were put there by the person who is leasing the land from the state. From most outward appearences you couldn't even tell that it is state land.

isp2605
11-21-2006, 15:53
Google Earth. Just put the pointer at the corners and the coord are indicated in the lower left corner.

noway
11-21-2006, 15:55
tread cautiously

I can't believe that the state would post public hunting grounds and not provide physical boundary markers. No requirement exist for having to have a GPS to hunt imho.

What I would look into this state land stewardress office to provide boundarys in long/lat and then you can walk the area off. BUT if the area is not marked and not IAW the law, pretty much the private land owner is SOL. He should at least place a fence and what would be better marked NO TREPASS signs along with the fence at every change of direction, and within so many feet of visibility.

I would personally research the law ahead of time with and the wording on marking on property. Florida has a big section on that and I would assume other states are similiar worded. If the private landowner can filed charges for trepass, than their has to be some statute cover this area. And I betchas a Texas horned lizard, it puts a baseline of min-requirements on the private land owner to identify his/her property.

lomfs24
11-21-2006, 17:58
Originally posted by isp2605
Google Earth. Just put the pointer at the corners and the coord are indicated in the lower left corner. The problem with this solution is that Google earth doesn't show state land. So, I would be guessing as to where to put the pointer.

Steve in PA
11-21-2006, 18:06
Try here; Maptech (http://mapserver.maptech.com/homepage)

lomfs24
11-21-2006, 18:11
Originally posted by noway
tread cautiously

I can't believe that the state would post public hunting grounds and not provide physical boundary markers. No requirement exist for having to have a GPS to hunt imho.

What I would look into this state land stewardress office to provide boundarys in long/lat and then you can walk the area off. BUT if the area is not marked and not IAW the law, pretty much the private land owner is SOL. He should at least place a fence and what would be better marked NO TREPASS signs along with the fence at every change of direction, and within so many feet of visibility.

I would personally research the law ahead of time with and the wording on marking on property. Florida has a big section on that and I would assume other states are similiar worded. If the private landowner can filed charges for trepass, than their has to be some statute cover this area. And I betchas a Texas horned lizard, it puts a baseline of min-requirements on the private land owner to identify his/her property. You are right and you are wrong.... Here is a bit of quick background on state land in Montana. Way back when when land was being divied up the state aquired section 16 and section 36 from each township and range for the school district. Some school sections actually had country schools on them. Most of them were and still are leased to neighboring landowners. The lease money then of course went to fund the school district. Also way back when, the state would loan you money and hold your property as collateral. If you defaulted on your loan the state would take your land. Then, throughout the years, there were land sales, land swaps etc... so the state now has some full sections, some partial sections, and some groups of sections together. Now, if those sections of land are accessible by a public road, they are free game to hunt on. However, the leases are extremely long like 50 years, so the land owner treates them like his own farm land or range land and fences are put in according to what works best for the rancher, not what's best for designating state land.
In Montana, the land owner should, but is not required to mark his land. You are, however, as a hunter required to know where you are and that you either not on private land, or you have secured permission to be on private land.
State land is notorious for not being marked for that reason. BLM land (Bureau of Land Management)land is pretty well marked with a state every 200 yards or so with one side saying you are entering public land and the other side saying you are leaving public land.

The Court House has legal descriptions of the land ownership but that does not translate into GPS lat/long at all.

lomfs24
11-21-2006, 18:17
Originally posted by Steve in PA
Try here; Maptech (http://mapserver.maptech.com/homepage) That would work great except that it doesn't show state lands as different colors. I can kind of guess what's where and get pretty close. Thanks. I will definately book mark it.
Here is the map I need. (http://mapserver.maptech.com/homepage/index.cfm?lat=45.392625&lon=-112.117076&scale=24000&zoom=50&type=1&icon=0&width=498&height=498&searchscope=dom&CFID=3379135&CFTOKEN=10405944&scriptfile=http://mapserver.maptech.com/homepage/index.cfm&latlontype=DMS) Section 16 is all state land, and the top 1/4 of the section 3/4's across is state land. And if you place that over a picture, it's some pretty good whitetail land.

Steve in PA
11-21-2006, 19:01
Try TopoZone (http://www.topozone.com)

You may have to look at differnt maps to find what you are looking for.

Steve in PA
11-21-2006, 19:10
And this one National Geographic Maps and Geography (http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/topo)

noway
11-21-2006, 20:55
is montana still one of the state that give away land or something like that?

I would hate to have to hire a surveyor company in marking by records, your land. Also speaking of surveys when the land was given to the private owner did they provide some type of survey point?


The reason why I state that, I look at some land that was covered with vines/weeds/shrubs that I was going to buy and it had no fences no real borders but I was told to search for thr surveor reference marks which btw I did find after about 6 hours over two days :frown:


Getting back on the question, what are the laws pertaining to trepass in MT? Here in florida 810.xx we have silly rules that the private land owner must follow. I.e 5 acres or less with an home doesn't need post signes, signs must be post within 500 ft in bold letters 2" high with the property name and a simple NO TREPASS,etc.....


Now, if those sections of land are accessible by a public road, they are free game to hunt on. However, the leases are extremely long like 50 years, so the land owner treates them like his own farm land or range land and fences are put in according to what works best for the rancher, not what's best for designating state land.


aren't lands under an control lease controlled by the lease agrgeement between the two parties? In this case US-Gov MT and the private party.

lomfs24
11-21-2006, 23:51
Noway,
No, Montana does not still give away land... at least not that I am aware of. It might still be one of those things that if you search long enough and hard enough through dusty books you might find a loophole that hasn't been closed. But there isn't an active "homestead act".

Montana does have survey stakes at the section corners. Some of the old ones were simply a large rock that was chisled. Later ones are a steel pipe with a cast steel or brass cap with the information on it. Then legal descriptions of land ownership are Township, range, section and part of section down to the smallest amount. But that does not include lat/long in the description.

As far as tresspassing laws here, they are really landowner friendly. Simply put, it's your responsibility to know where you are. The landowner doesn't have to put up any signage telling you that you shouldn't be there. It's implied that if you don't have a verbal agreement (with a friendly fellow that you trust) or written agreement to be allowed access to the property then you can't go on it and you have to know where the boundaries are. Of course, the landowner that would be likely to turn you in and have you arrested is also the landowner that is likely to have a "No tresspassing" or "No hunting" sign on every post.

That being said, that's why so much of this land is extremely desirable to hunt. No one wants to take the time to find out exactly where it is so most people will just go hunt the National Forsest Service land and not even worry about land that borders private. So if you can manage to find a section here or there it can be as good as gold because A) no one else is there and B) you don't have to obtain permission to get on it.

Not sure what the last question is asking. The lease is between the State and a private party. But there is little with regards to how the private party uses the land. Of course they couldn't mine it etc... since they don't hold mineral rights to it. But they can farm it, they can graze it, they can put a sprinkler on it what ever they want.
The best way for a lease holder to keep would-be hunters like myself off that state land is to till it up just before hunting season or over graze it so a jack rabbit would have to pack a lunch to cross it. Other than that, they can't tell me I can't use it to recreate on. Of course, you will get to occasional ranch hand that will try to run you off because he doesn't know it's state land. Then when the Game Warden comes out and you kindly show him on the map where you are he will give the over zealous ranch hand a right good cussing and you don't have the problem again.

DJ Niner
11-22-2006, 00:08
My state has a GIS info site, and it can be very helpful.
Have you tried looking the Montana GIS site?:

http://nris.mt.gov/gis/

And this page seems to have a zoom-in clickable map generator, with public lands highlighted or shown in separate links in a chart:

http://nris.mt.gov/gis/ownmaps.asp

DJ Niner
11-22-2006, 00:13
If you can get the approximate Lat/Lon off the map site listed above, you can go to the following MapQuest site, enter the Lat/Lon, and it will show you a map and/or aerial photo (if available) of the area:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/main.adp?formtype=latlong&cat=&address=&city=&state=&zipcode=

noway
11-22-2006, 05:10
GIS was going to be my second choice. Typically if you can get the property parcel ID you can get the GIS mapand data on the property.

I not sure on if state own land is made available thru online source but I don't see why it would not.