Theory, hi pressure .45

[frank4570]

I'm just thinking here, nobody get excited. I don't have the equipment to try this if I wanted to.
So, I was looking at a .45acp case and a .308 case. It looks like it would be very possible to cut down a .308,neck turn, and have a .45 case,basically. But the .308 case is quite a bit thicker than the .45.
The .45 is rated at 21,000psi. The .308 is rated at 52,000psi.
Now, JUST looking at not blowing up the gun, it seems to me that the new brass would enable more pressure and higher velocities.
I know there is still slide velocity, slide battering and all that stuff to be concerned with.
Am I wrong here?

[gary newport]

Originally posted by frank4570
I'm just thinking here, nobody get excited. I don't have the equipment to try this if I wanted to.
So, I was looking at a .45acp case and a .308 case. It looks like it would be very possible to cut down a .308,neck turn, and have a .45 case,basically. But the .308 case is quite a bit thicker than the .45.
The .45 is rated at 21,000psi. The .308 is rated at 52,000psi.
Now, JUST looking at not blowing up the gun, it seems to me that the new brass would enable more pressure and higher velocities.
I know there is still slide velocity, slide battering and all that stuff to be concerned with.
Am I wrong here?

The .45 ACP PISTOL is rated at 21,000 (or 23,000, if +p); the .308 RIFLE is rated at 52,000 PSI. Using thicker brass won't make the pistol's chamber walls any thicker or the slide any heavier!

Thicker brass may inhance tolerance for pressure slightly -- the .45 GAP brass has a thicker web than .45 ACP brass and operates at a slightly higher MAP, as does some +p .45 ACP -- but there's a limit! There are a few other problems with this idea, but that ought to be sufficient discouragement.

[Steve Koski]

There are already several higher pressure versions of the 45 ACP.

[aplaceinspace]

.460 rowland, or the classic .45 win mag.

.460 rowland conversion kits are available, they use a different barrel (same over all cartridge length as a .45acp, but different length brass and deeper set bullet) and a heavier recoil spring.

.45 win mag is made by reloaders out of a cut down .308 case rather than spend big bucks on .45 win mag brass. Bronson uses one in at least two of the death wish movies.
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg128-e.htm

But I think thats a bit big for a rechambered .45acp.

[postpostban]

http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm

.45 super is a very interesting round.

[MSgt Dotson]

Wasn't, in fact, the cutdown .308 Winchester case the basis for .451 Detonics brass 20 years ago?

[37GAP!]

Isnt that what a 45GAP case basically does?

[Steve Koski]

Originally posted by 37GAP!
Isnt that what a 45GAP case basically does? NO! Gap has a smaller internal volume and higher pressure and breaks even with 45 ACP. It can't touch 45 ACP +p.

But you knew that, right?

[frank4570]

Originally posted by MSgt Dotson
Wasn't, in fact, the cutdown .308 Winchester case the basis for .451 Detonics brass 20 years ago?

It seems you are exactly right. I wonder what could be safely accomplished in a .451 Detonics with the modern powders which are available now. I am guessing Power Pistol would give some very impressive velocities.

[37GAP!]

Originally posted by Steve Koski
NO! Gap has a smaller internal volume and higher pressure and breaks even with 45 ACP. It can't touch 45 ACP +p.

But you knew that, right?

Opps, guess I should have read the whole thread first. Yep your right. Im still waiting for a "+p GAP round". Well see...

[gary newport]

Originally posted by Steve Koski
NO! Gap has a smaller internal volume and higher pressure and breaks even with 45 ACP. It can't touch 45 ACP +p.

But you knew that, right?

I wouldn't be so sure about that, Steve. Personally, I see no need for +p loadings in EITHER .45 GAP or .45 ACP. However, some folks do. For them, the boutique "push 'em faster" ammo makers (Cor-Bon, Double Tap) offer GAP loadings which exceed standard-pressure velocities. I've also seen worked-up (NOT tested in a pressure barrel) data from a GT member which push 230 grain bullets well into +p territory using Hodgdon's Longshot with no evident signs of over-pressure, according to the tester.

I'll stick with standard velocities and modern hollowpoint bullet designs in either caliber.

[Percival]

There is a pistol that can use cut down .308 cases tho, just as a heads up...AMT .44 Auto Mag... Fun gun, but I wouldn't want to pay for one.

Percival

[VN350X10]

Remember, the real function of any case in any caliber is to

1)Provide a convienient way to hold the powder & bullet together

2)Act as a gasket to seal the chamber.

A thicker head gasket won't let you run a higher compression ratio !

And yes, you can make .44 AutoMag brass from .308, also .25-06,.270,.30-06,.243 or any case from that headsize (.473") family. But it's MUCH easier to just buy it from Starline. Norma also produced it and can still be found once in a while at gun shows.

And yes, it IS fun to shoot one, but you do get used to looking where your brass lands, moreso than where the bullet hits !

uncle albert