Authorized Holsters for USAF use.......... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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SpecOpsARs
12-05-2006, 19:21
I'm fairly new to the USAF, I'm wondering where I can find regulations for what Thigh Pistol Holsters are authorized for use by Security Forces. When I was in the Army there wasn't a big issue on what types, it was what ever you felt comfortable. I recently got a hold of a Blackhawk Serpa CQC holster for the M9, I used on for my 1911, is this authorized?

MrMurphy
12-06-2006, 08:32
Before it was pretty much the old M12, or whatever your unit decided to issue.


There is currently (as in, by next week or so) a mass issue transition going on to the Safariland 6004/5 thigh holster, which, if the CATM and supply guys are right, is THE issue holster, period, for Security Forces from now on, with none others being authorized.



As to the Serpa.. there have been some major operational issues with it by guys who've deployed (or even in training) to where I will never, ever use one, even if it's free. Ranging from the gun being trapped in the holster to the gun deserting the holster on it's own (with only a lanyard keeping the gun attached to the user) in more than one country, and more than half a dozen instances, to the holster falling off the legplate walking across a parking lot (going to a training class) by a guy who just bought one and put it on for the second time the time it fell off.

Other people say it's great, however, I've talked firsthand to too many guys to ever trust it.

Check with your unit, are you still TDYing through tech school or are you assigned to a operational squadron yet? As far as I know, the 6004/5 will be the only one authorized after this month, but double check.

SpecOpsARs
12-06-2006, 18:00
I'm back from Tech School, now I'm activated with an Active Duty Squadron. Thanks for the information.

Originally posted by MrMurphy
Before it was pretty much the old M12, or whatever your unit decided to issue.


There is currently (as in, by next week or so) a mass issue transition going on to the Safariland 6004/5 thigh holster, which, if the CATM and supply guys are right, is THE issue holster, period, for Security Forces from now on, with none others being authorized.



As to the Serpa.. there have been some major operational issues with it by guys who've deployed (or even in training) to where I will never, ever use one, even if it's free. Ranging from the gun being trapped in the holster to the gun deserting the holster on it's own (with only a lanyard keeping the gun attached to the user) in more than one country, and more than half a dozen instances, to the holster falling off the legplate walking across a parking lot (going to a training class) by a guy who just bought one and put it on for the second time the time it fell off.

Other people say it's great, however, I've talked firsthand to too many guys to ever trust it.

Check with your unit, are you still TDYing through tech school or are you assigned to a operational squadron yet? As far as I know, the 6004/5 will be the only one authorized after this month, but double check.

meeko
12-07-2006, 08:12
Thats the AF for you one size fits all!!

The only problem I notice on thigh holsters is a lot of security forces troops wear them for normal patrol duty. They look cool but are not really designed for that. They are harder for a weapons retention standpoint. Now they work great if you are on an entry team for your secondary weapon etc. It holds it down out of the way from your other gear (flash bangs flex cuffs etc) of course you always have a #2 man with you so if you get into a CQB situation thats helpful. while a lot of SF troops want the training as a 21 year AF cop both active and ANG I can say that the AF needs to do more tactical training and CQB stuff. both the administration and some of the troops think they are a all that and a bag of chips. They are nowhere near where they need to be.

My civilian team recently went to the blackhawk thigh holster which is a pretty good rig. Some of my team members kept the safariland that we have. everyone is not the same. A little variance would be good. What works well for me might not work well for you. Thats why they shouldn't press the uniformity issue that much. we arn't talking a color guard here.

MrMurphy
12-07-2006, 10:43
Yeah, but compared to the Suicide Special.... i'll take a Safariland in a heartbeat. It's more user-adjustable than the old flaprig ever was.

I agree on the patrol thing, in my case, we've got two "patrol" guys with 9s and about 300+ guys who, if they use it all, will be double-armed for deployment,where it'll be handy.

meeko
12-07-2006, 13:28
Originally posted by MrMurphy
Yeah, but compared to the Suicide Special.... i'll take a Safariland in a heartbeat. It's more user-adjustable than the old flaprig ever was.

I agree, the suicide special is way outdated. A flap holster might be ok for a rear position in the field but we seem to not have front lines anymore in any battles we fight so thats sort of out of the question. Any of the current designs with a thumb strap is fine for patrol ie base LE duty etc.

themouth1
12-12-2006, 11:50
Sounds like he is a reservist. It may depend on what his unit will issue and that may be different when he is on duty with an active unit.

MrMurphy
12-12-2006, 13:30
From what I've heard, all Security Forces, everywhere, period, will be issuing the 6005, reserve or not.

We'll see if that happens.

meeko
12-12-2006, 15:01
Originally posted by MrMurphy
From what I've heard, all Security Forces, everywhere, period, will be issuing the 6005, reserve or not.

We'll see if that happens.

My unit had guys that just got back from Qatar. They were issued the Safariland. I'm not sure which model number didn't have time to check them out yet. Home station bought a mixture of first Blackhawk and then Safariland. Supposedly Safariland was directed per my NCOIS Security Forces Operations. Just hang on and I'm sure it will change.

SpecOpsARs
12-12-2006, 17:20
I'm using a Blackhawk Serpa Holster with a added thumb break. I love the way it feels, I used the Serpa with my 1911 in the Army, I still can't beat it. I'm going to wear my holster as long as they'll let me. Thanks for all of the insight.

Redhat
12-12-2006, 21:55
Probably best to use what is issued by your unit.

Stuka_Pirate
12-13-2006, 17:16
You have to be qualified on the holster and CATM issues them whenever you go back through re-qual for the M9. I'm assigned to ACC and I'm told it's all command driven as to what gear you're qualified to wear.

I ditched mine because it's not at all cruiser friendly in an Impala with the police kit installed. It was virtually impossible to cram all of me in there.

SpecOpsARs
12-13-2006, 17:18
I'm qualified with the Blackhawk Serpa, and so far it's cruiser friendly in the Explorers.

Stuka_Pirate
12-13-2006, 22:28
Yeah it works OK in the exploders. All in all getting rid of the drop and mounting it high has been a better and more comfortable combo for riding around for 12 hours.

meeko
12-14-2006, 08:57
Originally posted by Stuka_Pirate
Yeah it works OK in the exploders. All in all getting rid of the drop and mounting it high has been a better and more comfortable combo for riding around for 12 hours.

Actually you are usually quicker if you have a holster on your pistol belt. I'm on a SWAT team for a federal agency and we train for transition drills (MP 5 to SIG)with the thigh holsters like when we make an entry. However we have found you are faster from the hip. it's no big deal because we always have a #2 man or so. The thigh holsters ar not designed for day to day patrol use (patrol as in police car type stuff) but when we have flex cuffs, flash bangs, mirrors, magazines, radios, breaching tools (if your the breacher) body armor etc it's nice to be out of the way. getting in and out of a cruiser or van is no big deal unless you are in and out several dozen times like on normal patrol duty. Of course we only get out of a car a few times.

Stuka_Pirate
12-14-2006, 09:28
Originally posted by meeko
Actually you are usually quicker if you have a holster on your pistol belt. I'm on a SWAT team for a federal agency and we train for transition drills (MP 5 to SIG)with the thigh holsters like when we make an entry. However we have found you are faster from the hip. it's no big deal because we always have a #2 man or so. The thigh holsters ar not designed for day to day patrol use (patrol as in police car type stuff) but when we have flex cuffs, flash bangs, mirrors, magazines, radios, breaching tools (if your the breacher) body armor etc it's nice to be out of the way. getting in and out of a cruiser or van is no big deal unless you are in and out several dozen times like on normal patrol duty. Of course we only get out of a car a few times.

The advantage and envy of all the real cops I see is that normally you are working with a crown vic or something equal in size and they usually have the fake leather seats or something similar so you can slide in and out rather quickly.

The Air Force is presently operating little tiny Impalas with bucket seats that are some sort of cloth material that could double as velcro for your ass when you plant in it. Most of the seats have no center area left in them from the abuse and now it feels like a toilet seat that you sit on for 12 hour shifts. All of the people getting in and out with drop holsters and similar belt gear just kill the interiors. The AF could keep they're vehicles looking a lot better (like they always rag on us for) if they used a plastic seat (read pleather) and a bigger bucket seat.

...add a drop holster and I'll tear the whole damn cover off the seat in an instant. :thumbsup:

MrMurphy
12-14-2006, 10:10
I agree on that one, we've got a couple Impalas, a few Dakotas, and one or two Ford Mondeos (we're in USAFE) that are actually, despite what I thought, turned out to be the best of the actual cop cars we've got.

AFshooter
12-17-2006, 17:20
I see a lot more of the Safariland on the SF now.
The Civ guys still use the LE style duty holster.

I have never once seen a "Suicide Special" on any SF on my base.

The cops on my jet (E-4B) just stick the M9 in the holster that is sewn on the green vest they wear over the flight suit. They are always double armed. I like the setup they have with the M-4. They have the surefire forend grip/light combo.

Stuka_Pirate
12-17-2006, 22:26
The M4's ARE pretty sweet Bry! Mine is available for you to toy with in the smoke pit whenever you please! :supergrin:

We're ALL dual armed BTW.

...ya don't call...ya don't write....

:laughabove:

MrMurphy
12-18-2006, 08:32
The guys on an E-4 are presumably Ravens (we've had one stop in here now and then) and they're not "normal SF cops" when it comes to gear and guns.

meeko
12-18-2006, 10:49
Originally posted by MrMurphy
The guys on an E-4 are presumably Ravens (we've had one stop in here now and then) and they're not "normal SF cops" when it comes to gear and guns.

When they come to your base does your SQ/Wing leadership make the earth stand still for them? In the old SAC days (yea I'm a dinosaur) Eaker Arkansas was an alternate to NECAP (the E-4 flying pentagon) talk about cry babies!! some people offered up their first born children to them. They did enjoy the shrimp at the NCO club though.

Stuka_Pirate
12-18-2006, 11:54
Originally posted by MrMurphy
The guys on an E-4 are presumably Ravens (we've had one stop in here now and then) and they're not "normal SF cops" when it comes to gear and guns.

Nope they're not ravens but rather regular Sec Forces members pulled and tasked with a rotation with those teams. The weapons are the same but the gear is not. The Blackhawk vest is just a by-product of necessity.

When guys come off NAOC and back to flight, they have a dazed look like they were just dropped off in a bad part of town without pants on. :rofl:

AFshooter
12-18-2006, 12:20
Funny. Some say the "Best" job in your career field.
Worst in mine. 'Course you guys can go to any base. We can go to like six.

MrMurphy
12-18-2006, 12:43
We have guys who work with them when they come around on a special detail, they use our standard weapons and gear just like always. In a situation like yours where they're basically TDY I can see them switching gear etc of course.