Requirements for 3 gun?

[Jim1970]

Hello,

I could probably google this and get an answer, but I find that I learn from my posts and the ideas people share. So, if you dont' mind . . . a question for ya about 3 gun competition.

I shoot IDPA and love it. I see my local club has 3 gun competitions, but I've never been a part of that. I know it involves a handgun, a rifle, and a shotgun.

What are the distances? What are the calibers? Are there sight limitations? What rifle and shotgun would you buy if you were new to 3 gun? And yes, money is a BIG factor -- guns must be priced for the average dude with ammo readily available.

Thanks,

Jim

[sarge]

Originally posted by Jim1970

What are the distances?

Our club doesn't have a very long range, so we limit our 3 gun to a max of about 50 yards. We just don't have the room. I have shot in 3 gun matches where we were shooting 12" plates at 300 yards, though. I think that the "Big" matches even go out farther than that. It all depends on the club or range and their available facilities.

Originally posted by Jim1970

What are the calibers?

Basically, any centerfire caliber will do. A majority of the 3 gun that I have shot you usually see 223 and 308, mostly in AR style rifles. In our club, since the ranges are shorter, several of the guys use SKS and AK type rifles, and a couple even use 30 M1 carbines. I have even seen the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 rifles in 9mm and 40 being used.

Originally posted by Jim1970

Are there sight limitations?

In USPSA 3 gun, there are 3 divisions in rifle, irons sights are limited, 1 optic on the rifle puts you in Tactical (what most of our shooters shoot) and more than 1 optic on the rifle puts you in open.

Originally posted by Jim1970

What rifle and shotgun would you buy if you were new to 3 gun? And yes, money is a BIG factor -- guns must be priced for the average dude with ammo readily available.

Thanks,

Jim

I shoot an old Remington 1100 that I've had since 1973. My rifle is a Bushy 16" or 20", depending on what distance I will be shooting. If I am on a range that all of it is under 50 yards, I'll use my 10.3" SBR.

If I were new to 3 gun, and funds were limited, I'd look real hard at a pump shotgun and possibly an SKS if the ranges were going to be under 100 yards. Any longer and you'll start looking at 223 and possibly the AR platform.

I'd check with the local club and just see how long their rifle shots are. One thing I have found out is that longer ranges equals longer scoring times, and lots of clubs like to keep distances short to help with time management.

Decide what you need, look around, and a bargain will pop up. Buy the best you can afford at this time,and maybe you won't have to be upgrading in a year or 2.

Hope this helped a little.

[Jim1970]

Sarge,

Thanks, that was very helpful.

Jim

[rhino465]

Originally posted by Jim1970


What are the distances? What are the calibers? Are there sight limitations? What rifle and shotgun would you buy if you were new to 3 gun? And yes, money is a BIG factor -- guns must be priced for the average dude with ammo readily available.


The answers to your questions depend significantly on the type of match your club runs, including the specific rules and range facilities. Your best bet is to contact the match director and some of the shooters and ask them. The answers for USPSA 3-gun or USPSA multi-gun may not be the same as for any of the "outlaw" rules, and distances depend on the stage design and physical limitations of the range.

[kyjack45]

If money is a consideration:
1. Use the Glock you currently own. If you had 3 mags for IDPA you probably need 4 for USPSA (5 if they are all 10-rounders).
2. Remington 870 Express 12 gauge, or a better model if you can get a deal on a used gun.
3. The AK-47 in 7.62x39 is by far the most reliable and the least expensive.

[Jim1970]

Kyjack45,

Thanks for the additional info. I found a Remington 1100 for around $675 -- green finish, "tactical" model -- added cocking handle, pistol grip, nice shotgun. Is the 870 similar in form and price?

I love my g19, it will definately be the pistol I use.

The AK -- is that going to perform out to - say - 100 yards? Assuming I'll put a decent/good scope on it? Also, these are the same guns I see for $200, right? Will it last or is this a disposible gun?

Thanks for your thoughts and help.

Jim

[stubbicatt]

Originally posted by Jim1970
Kyjack45,

Thanks for the additional info. I found a Remington 1100 for around $675 -- green finish, "tactical" model -- added cocking handle, pistol grip, nice shotgun. Is the 870 similar in form and price?

I love my g19, it will definately be the pistol I use.

The AK -- is that going to perform out to - say - 100 yards? Assuming I'll put a decent/good scope on it? Also, these are the same guns I see for $200, right? Will it last or is this a disposible gun?

Thanks for your thoughts and help.

Jim

I am a novice at this sport, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt and double check with those old salts at your club.

The AK's vary greatly in quality as well as cost, but with good ammunition they will perform quite well indeed. As with most things in life, quality and accuracy increase proportional to the price you pay for one. I am unfamiliar with the $200 rifles of which you speak, but I would recommend instead something by Arsenal if you can find one, and opt for an AK variant.

All of the competitors but for myself were using AR's at the last 3 gun match I attended. I tried it with my 308 PTR 91, but my times were significantly slower, and that 308 was bumping me around some. Next time out I hope to use my AK74 in 5.45x39 chambering, or perhaps a different one in 556. I don't know which yet.

Shotgun is very novel to me, I've never been particularly fond of them until recently while shooting this game. I use a Remmy 870, and find it has certain strengths and merits, but most everybody uses a semi auto of some sort, Benelli seems to be the most popular. As I see it, it is tempting to start an equipment race in this sport, something I choose to ignore. It can still be fun to shoot the course with what you have, and see if you improve a little each time.

I love my Glocks, and have shot my G19, as well as a CZ75, the latter of which is chambered in .40 S&W.

The game is fun and while equipment is important, to me it is important to keep it all in perspective as "do the best with what you have." It is really exciting to watch the really fast folks, but I am not one of them, and truthfully, that is way beyond my skill level.

YMMV. :wavey:

[Jim1970]

Hello,

As I continue my quest for knowledge about the rifle and shotgun parts of the 3 gun competition, I have learned that some folks use the Ruger Mini-14. I did some reading on the Ruger site and like the $835 Mini with a synthetic stock. I bet I can find a cleanly used one cheaper.

Would this be an acceptable rifle for 3 gun?

Jim

[Hozer]

Originally posted by Jim1970
Hello,

As I continue my quest for knowledge about the rifle and shotgun parts of the 3 gun competition, I have learned that some folks use the Ruger Mini-14. I did some reading on the Ruger site and like the $835 Mini with a synthetic stock. I bet I can find a cleanly used one cheaper.

Would this be an acceptable rifle for 3 gun?

Jim

It will work, but I would not want to use one.

#1. Crappy trigger.
#2. Not very accurate compared to the AR.
#3. Slow to reload.
#4. Mags are expensive and harder to find good ones.
#5. Hard to mount a scope on.
#6. 30+ round mags for the mini suck and dont work.

With all that in mind, I hope everyone I compete against uses one.

[Hozer]

Originally posted by Jim1970
What are the distances? What are the calibers? Are there sight limitations? What rifle and shotgun would you buy if you were new to 3 gun? And yes, money is a BIG factor -- guns must be priced for the average dude with ammo readily available.

Jim, if you drive south to Pueblo Colorado you will find no rifle shot closer than 200 yards and always out to 425 yards. The Aurora (East Denver) club you wont find anything past 200 and as close as arms reach. The Colorado Multi-gun guys that split off of Rocky Mountain 3-Gun will start having matches in Greeley Colorado. Another hour closer to you. There you will find all distances.

I would get a Benelli M1 or M2 with 21 or 24 inch barrel and a 20 inch AR-15 with a halfway decent low powered scope. A Remington 1100 will also work, but not my first choice.

Used Benellis can be had for under $700 and a good used AR can be had for about the same.

Shotgun is easy to practice. Just practice loading it. Thats what makes or breaks action shotgunning.

[Jim1970]

Thanks for the info, Hozer. I travel to CO often (there just isn't much in my neck of the woods) and would like to shoot in some of the places you mentioned.

I think I'm starting to lean towards the Stag AR15 -- their prices are nice and they are left handed.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Jim

[jobob]

You'd do well to stick with some type of AR15. Preferrably with a flat top to mount an optic easily (I'd recommend a low power variable scope - I use a Weaver 1-3x). Someone recommended an SKS and I couldn't think of anything worse for 3 gun, and still be a semi-auto, unless cost is your only consideration. It's slow to reload, ten round capacity, and you have to shoot till it's empty before reloading, which can be awkward (and slow) in the middle of a string. But if it's what you have, it would be ok to start with to see if you like 3-gun. Just don't think you'll be competitive with it. The AK is better, but still slower to reload than the AR, less accurate (on average), worse trigger, and harder to mount a scope. But they're really fun to shoot! I love my AK, and have shot some local matches with it, but it just isn't as competitive as a good AR.

If you love 3-gun like I do (can't think of hardly anything more fun to do with my clothes on) you'll be putting some cash into it. I think that 3 gun MORE than triples the cost, at least it seems that way to me.

On the shotgun, there have been lots of suggestions here, and the Benelli, I'm told, is great. As is Winchester and Browning. I shoot Remingtons; an 1100 (green) Tactical, and an 11-87. I've sent both to Shawn Carlock (http://www.centertargetsports.com/services_gunsmith.htm) to have him do his modifications for reliability and reloading speed. He still has my 11-87. The 1100 has been absolutely dead reliable with all ammo since I got it back from him last August. I started 3-gun with the Rem. 870 pump, but found that I tend to shortstroke a pump when I'm in a hurry. Glad I changed to autos. The gas operated Remies are actually fun to shoot because of the lower recoil. I always hated shooting shotguns till I switched.

Whatever guns you go with, I'm sure you'll have a ball!

[fueddy]

ok i have a question about 3 gun. shot uspsa pistol and want to shot 3 gun in the summer. but i don't get the divisions. ok i have my glock 35 that i use in limited-10 and just got a winchester super x2 with a aimpoint for $600 :supergrin: and getting a bushy 16 inch ar-15. but i still have no idea what divi. to shoot in. Are the divisions all the guns or differnt divisions by each firearm? thanks. so cunfused lol

[stubbicatt]

Originally posted by fueddy
ok i have a question about 3 gun. shot uspsa pistol and want to shot 3 gun in the summer. but i don't get the divisions. ok i have my glock 35 that i use in limited-10 and just got a winchester super x2 with a aimpoint for $600 :supergrin: and getting a bushy 16 inch ar-15. but i still have no idea what divi. to shoot in. Are the divisions all the guns or differnt divisions by each firearm? thanks. so cunfused lol

As I recall, there are 3 classes: Limited, Tactical, and Open. Limited is all Iron sights, tactical you get one optic on one of your long guns (and it might only be you get one optic on your rifle) and Open, which is anything goes, so long as it is safe, and makes minor power factor.

Double check the rules however.

[fueddy]

i think you just qouted what i found under the rules lol ok if i take off the aimpoint on the shotgun and put it on the AR i would be in Tactical then. anyone have an opinon on what i should start off in? i know for sure not open...too many toys. Thinking maybe taking off the aimpoint and shooting Limited to start. any ideas from people who shoot 3 gun?

[Marauder.45]

Is there a 3-gun enthusiast web site? Some kind of universal body where a collection of information could be found?

Kind of like the SASS website for the sixgunners?

[kyjack45]

Originally posted by Jim1970
...Thanks for the additional info. I found a Remington 1100 for around $675 -- green finish, "tactical" model -- added cocking handle, pistol grip, nice shotgun. Is the 870 similar in form and price?

I love my g19, it will definately be the pistol I use.

The AK -- is that going to perform out to - say - 100 yards? Assuming I'll put a decent/good scope on it? Also, these are the same guns I see for $200, right? Will it last or is this a disposible gun?...The Remington 1100 is semi-automatic. It costs more and needs to be cleaned more often, but will give you better times.

I consider the AK-47 effective out to 150 yards. You can get a replacement top guard with a weaver scope base if you want optics. For 200 yards and beyond, you are in fact better off with an AR-15.

Remington 870 express (pump) and AK-47 are the cheapest guns that can be effective, but go with the Remington 1100 and AR-15 if you can afford them.

[BerKim]

Originally posted by Marauder.45
Is there a 3-gun enthusiast web site? Some kind of universal body where a collection of information could be found?

Kind of like the SASS website for the sixgunners?

Best places are the Brian Enos forums:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/

and

http://www.3gunrules.com/

[Hozer]

Originally posted by fueddy
Thinking maybe taking off the aimpoint and shooting Limited to start. any ideas from people who shoot 3 gun?
I enjoy shooting Limited but most of the big dogs are shooting Tactical.

Being a big fish in a small pond is boring.

I recommend you just get started and you will find out where you fit in best.