Suresight Generation II review [Archive] - Glock Talk

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dport
12-23-2006, 09:00
I've been eagerly awaiting the re-release of the Suresight for about a year and a half now. I received it yesterday. I got to shoot it some today.

Installation:
If you don't have a brass or nylon punch and a file do not attempt the installation. I was eager to try these, don't have a brass punch and decided to install them because I have ZERO patience. Learn from my mistake. I think that was the most difficult installation I've ever done. The note that came with the sights says the paint was still curing. That made me a bit nervous. I caused at least two nicks on the rear sight. That shouldn't harm functionality, which is all I'm interested in. However, touch up paint in a small vial may be a good idea as a future product. *HINT* *HINT*

Also, read the directions. Sight pushers won't work. DO NOT ATTEMPT to install the rear sight without brass or nylon punches. I tried the Ameriglo sight pusher because it looked like it would work and because I didn't want to nick the paint. I caused a distortion on the rear sight. So don't do it. I do think this is a weakness to the sight. You can only get so close in windage when beating against the sight. I find a sight pusher to get you just where you want to be in windage.

I had to file both the front and rear sights to get them to fit. If you don't like to file, take the sights to a gunsmith.

Photolum Paint
I'm nervous about the painted finish. I'm worried the paint will rub off with holster wear. There are some other trade-offs with this as well.

First of all the photolum effect doesn't last long. I didn't get a stopwatch out, but after 30 minutes the effect was gone. Also charging the photolum paint can be tricky. If you hold a flashlight at the rear of the gun charging the rear and the front sight at once, you will get a brighter rear sight than a front sight. This is a problem in a dark environment as the rear sight will wash out the front sight.

I also spent the night with the sights on my nightstand. I got up during the middle of the night, when my eyes were adjusted to the dark and looked at the sights. They were totally dark. If something went bump in the night I would have to rely on the silhouette of the sights created by my flashlight for aiming. This may or may not be a weakness depending on your philosophy on night sights. I have gone years with no night sights and relying on the sights' silhouettes for aiming figuring that if I wasn't illuminating my target with the flashlight how could I justify that the target was a threat? I have since taken a couple of carbine/pistol courses which extol the virtue of night sights and provided some sound reasoning behind it. I'm personally undecided, but with these sights you're going to have to rely on the silhouette method if things go bump in the night. (I know what some of you are thinking. Why not just charge the sights first? Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to light up your weapon, yourself, and your position before getting into a possible deadly force encounter.)


Holster Fit
Someone with more holster options will provide more valuable input; however, I tested it with the holsters I've acquired over the years. I tested the sights in a Fobus paddle holster, an Uncle Mike's Sidekick (Size 21), a Blackhawk Glock/Sig thigh holster, and a Safariland 6004 (for a Glock 17 w/M3). All worked great with the sight.


Dry Fire Testing
I have a Beamhit laser range in the house and decided to do some dry fire testing. I zeroed the laser to the top of the triangle. The good news is the shape lives up to the hype, IMO. It was easy to acquire a good sight picture, and unlike other sights that advertise how quick the sight picture is, it was very accurate.

I also noticed that against a white target on a white wall the yellow paint made the sight picture difficult to pick up.

Live Fire Testing
Some interesting differences between the dry fire and the live fire. First of all, the apex of the triangle is not the point of impact. Second, the white background stuff didn't seem to be a problem.

Let me elaborate. I took the gun to the range and fired first at 7 and then at 25 yards. I was just as accurate at 7yards with these sights. At 25 yards, I was doing as well as I have been doing as of late and was quicker. I think with some more time with these sights I'll shoot better and faster than I ever did with traditional sights.

I also let my wife shoot. She loved them. She has problems with cross-eye dominance and was able to pick up the front sight quickly. She shot better this morning than she normally does.

I need to go to an indoor range and shoot the sights side by side with traditional post and notch sights. That is the plan, but I don't have the time today.


First Impressions
I understand the history with plastic inserts and why the inventor went with paint. But I don't think the paint is going to hold up. I think I would have the area of the sight were the paint is recessed. How far? I don't have an exact measurement, but I would think about twice as far as the thickness of the paint. This would accomplish two things. One, if repainting is necessary it would be easier to accomplish. Two, being recessed should help protect the paint in the first place. This would also give the painted triangle a small black border for those instances where a white background makes the sights difficult to pick up.

The second generation of the Suresight has a small circle in the middle of the triangle. This is the point of impact, for the most part. I wonder if it is possible to make the apex of the triangle the point of impact? It would require making the front sight shorter. Maybe this can be accomplished by making a more "squat" triangle, ie lengthening the triangle's base and making the height shorter? I don't know for sure, just throwing it out there.

G36Packer
12-23-2006, 10:55
Thanks for the review. I look forward to trying mine out once I find a brass or nylon punch.

DT
12-23-2006, 12:32
I hope that the "dot" on the front sight is not the point of impact as this would not be acceptable. The illustration on suresight.com shows the tip of the triangle as being the point of aim and implies this is also the point of impact. I willinstall my set and check. However if this is the case I may return the set.

dport
12-24-2006, 12:18
Just braved the crowds at the nearest Wal-Mart, some 30 miles away, to get 500 rounds of Winchester White Box for Christmas day testing of these sights.

dport
12-25-2006, 09:43
OK back from the range. I didn't get a chance to get through all 500 rounds because of the rain and my time-keeper is coming down with something.

Anyway, I decided to do some timed drills. I did presentations from the low-ready at 15 yards. The target was a 1/2 size pepper popper. Average time was 1.35 seconds with the fastest time I got coming in at 1.07.

At 10 yards I did some multiple target drills, which consisted of one shot on each of two 1/2 size pepper poppers from the low ready. Average time was about 1.90 with the fastest time coming in at 1.74.

I know these aren't the fastest times in the world. Considering it's been two months since I've shot a pistol, before the 50 rounds on Saturday, I'd say they aren't bad. And if I was shooting an IPSC target I'm sure I could have sped things up, since the A-zone is larger than the entire popper I was shooting at.

Next up, holster presentations. We'll see how the paint holds up.

The concept is right on, but I think the execution needs one or two minor tweaks.

dport
12-25-2006, 12:05
OK I'm at a combined 100 draws from two holsters and no sign of wear on the front sight.

Maybe the wear I noticed earlier was due to the paint still curing?

The testing continues...

dport
12-25-2006, 16:24
I've got some 800+ draws from four different holsters with these sights. 200 from a Fobus paddle holster. 200 from a Safariland 6004. 200 from an Uncle Mikes Sidekick (size 21), and 200 from a Blackhawk Glock/Sig thigh holster. All done today.

Some interesting observations. First of all the Fobus and the Safariland have front sight channels. It's damn near impossible to wear the front sight on these. Although, I did try. The Uncle Mikes has a piece of plastic where the front sight rides. I didn't wear the sight, but I did get plastic filings on the gun.

The Blackhawk is another matter. This must have been the holster that I noticed the wear from the other day. The nylon is rough on the inside of the holster and acts like sandpaper to the sight. It wore the tip of the triangle away. Not much wear but it is noticeable. Like I said the inside of the holster is like sandpaper. This and other shortcomings is why I replaced it with the 6004. To be honest I would expect any finish on any sight to wear with this holster. No knock on the Suresights.

On to the indoor range tomorrow, if it is open. Time for some semi-formal accuracy testing. After all, I still have 200 rounds I meant to shoot today that I need to get rid of.

Kinetic1
12-26-2006, 01:04
great reviews, I just ordered my set on christmas day. looking forward to them

dport
12-26-2006, 14:27
Semi-formal accuracy test
I shot my typical "accuracy test." That is I shot 10 rounds at 7, 15, and 25 yards at a 25 yard standard American pistol target center. It's scoring is X,10,9,8,7. However, I score it X,5,4,3,0. Basically, anything in the black is 5, the eight ring is a 4, the seven ring a 3, and on or off paper is 0. I've done this test and recorded it 37 times since March 14, 2005.

My average score has been a 143.39 and 8.39 X.
The mode is 145, 10X
The median is 145, 8X.
My best ever score is a 150, 15X
My worst score ever is 124, 2X.

Today, using the Suresights, I scored a 148, 9X. Dropped one point at the 15 yard line and one point at the 25 yard line.

One point can be accounted for due to poor windage adjustment, normally I adjust the sights on the indoor range before I shoot for score. I find that my adjustments are more accurate indoors than out. The only adjustment I had done on the sights prior was to get them "about" center. The other point dropped, for those who care, was a case of poor trigger control.

Impressions
One thing I noticed at the range today was the lights on the firing line was dim. The targets were back-lit. This made the painted triangle all but useless. I was using only the silhouette of the sights today. They were still fast and instinctual, in my opinion. Basically, if I could see the diamond-shaped front sight, I was getting good hits.

I was aiming the top of the front sight at the top of the circular target to get center hits. There was no way around it. And, oddly, I did not feel handicapped by it.

Nits to pick
There are only two:

#1 I wish the paint was more protected. I think recessing the paint as I described it would make it more durable. That said, other than dropping it on the concrete, using improper tools for installation, and using a holster with an interior like sandpaper, I couldn't get the sights to wear. When the paint did fail it was due to gross negligence.

#2 I wish there was some way to make it better at night. The solution to this I do not have. I also don't think it is that big of a deal, unless you are used to flashing your light and moving, the flash/move technique. I think it is a good technique, but not practical for home defense in that it takes a bit of practice to get used to and, in my house at least, there isn't much room to move after you light up the bad guy. As a CCW, there might be more merit to it. The photolum paint, IMO, is not necessary. I don't think it lasts long enough to warrant its application, and I don't think it's a good idea to "charge" the paint before engaging the bad guy except under very rare circumstances.

Final thoughts
I guess it all boils down to "given my experiences will I buy another set?"

The answer is an unqualified yes. Am I ready to get rid of my Ameriglo operators completely? No. Do I see use for these? Absolutely. My wife shoots better with them for one. So her gun will get them. After abusing the hell out of these sights, I think I will replace them (after I buy some nylon punches). If these are offered in dovetail cuts for front and rear sights that will fit a HiPower done by Cylinder and Slide then I have a home for another set.

sink156
12-26-2006, 21:09
Good review DPORT. Keep the updates coming.

dport
01-02-2007, 15:25
I have ~675 rounds through my Glock 17 with these sights (all 675 are WWB BTW). I have not carried this gun in concealment. I have only taken it to and from the range and kept it in the night stand. Other than the holster testing, I have not been demanding on them.

So, I was surprised to see the paint along the edges of the front sight starting to wear.

I have not cleaned them with anything more caustic than a little saliva and a kleenex.

I'm really starting to wonder about long term durability now.

I also need to see if I can get some pictures of what I'm talking about tonight.

ETA:
You can kinda make out the wear on the left hand side of the sight. Also you can see where the tip of the triangle started to wear from the Blackhawk holster. Still the pic leaves much to be desired.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k150/benellim4/P1010042.jpg

lonpunkin2
01-12-2007, 14:59
I just tried mine out for the 1st time Tue. night at an IDPA practice. Didn't have time to zero in just got the rear sight as close to center as possible. Didn't seem to do any worse or better. At the end we shot a six round limited for speed at one target. At 2 sec. time 2 shoots in the center and 4 @ about 10 o'clock. I made a rear sight pusher from a small c clamp that will work for small adjustments. Hope to be sighted in by next Tue.

dport
01-12-2007, 16:09
I've been playing with my carbine at the range of late. I still need to take this thing and try it against post and notch sights.

dport
01-15-2007, 14:25
Disaster struck. I'll post more when I get some batteries for the camera.

Thursday night we came home from dinner with a friend to find the power was out. So we went up to the gunsafe to fondle firearms by flashlight. While putting them away my Glock 17 was dropped. I didn't examine it; I just put it away.

Fast forward to today, I decided to take the Glock out to get some more rounds under my belt using the Suresight. I think I stand at 675ish right now. That's when I noticed this:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k150/benellim4/P1010006-1.jpg

This ends my evaluation of these sights. I personally want something a bit more durable than the current paint job.

Will that prevent me from buying a set in the future? Not for a "fun gun." However, I'd expect my serious gun to be able to take drop from less than four feet without sacrificing function.

I was skeptical about the concept behind these sights. However, that has been allayed. I think the concept behind these sights is sound. I'm just not sure about the execution for a serious gun.

YMMV.

NavArch
01-19-2007, 19:17
Thanks, dport, for the heads-up on the possibility of the front sight getting popped off the pistol. After installing mine (notice I said "after"), I noticed that the taller than normal height, coupled with the wide "shoulders" of the front sight could lead to this type of problem.

Installation notes:
First time I've installed sights in any firearm. I began with the rear sight. The stock Glock sight was easily punched out. I made a brass drift from a three inch section of 3/16" hobbystore quality brass rod purchased at a local classic hardware store. For each trial installation, I put the slide in a vise, using an old towel as padding. The edge of the sight slid into the start of the dovetail. I first tried to force it into place using a ball peen hammer and a plastic putty knife as a protective buffer. Note to self: "That simply didn't work. Don't waste your time." My final successful solution involved using a fine file on the muzzle side of the sight's dovetail. The sloping face of the sight was going to make it really hard to hold with a vise, so I resorted to holding the sight in my fingers while filing it. Dozens of cycles of: put slide in vise, try the sight, reverse the sight in the vise, drive it back out, file the dovetail, repeat. At some point in the process, I began applying permanent black marker to the front side of the dovetail in lieu of machinist's bluing fluid. That quickly pointed to the areas that needed additional filing. [Makes me glad I watched competent machinists back in the shipyard.] The trick here was to take off only enough steel to get an interference fit with the slide. Installing the front sight was a real pain. Using another poster's suggestion, I ground off the radiused end of the 3/16" nut driver to deal with the really thin head of the front sight nut. The well of the nut driver was still too deep. I filled it almost completely with wood putty and then used a bit of vaseline to hold the screw in place long enough to align it with the hole in the bottom of the front sight. The tough nut to crack here was keeping the vaseline on the head of the screw only, and applying half a drop of locktite to the threads and another half drop into the sight's threads. This took three tries if I recall correctly. Be careful not to strip the threads. Easy to do.

Useage notes:
Went to the range today for a defensive shooting lesson. I'm of a "certain age", as they say. I wear no-line bifocals, so the issue of focusing is very real. I found that even though the pistol's sights were out of focus while I concentrated on the target, it was easy to know when the sights were lined up to produce a good shot. I adapted to the new sight picture quickly. YMMV.

After dport's posting, my plan is to add a drop or two of epoxy on both sides of the front sight's line of intersection with the slide. If it gets popped off at some point in the future, a tiny bit of epoxy will be easy to clean up. This is not an elegant solution, but my Glock is a tool, not an art object. Then, I'll find a replacement front sight - maybe an XS big dot if it's the right height. I believe that the SureSight's rear sight will also help with a more conventional front sight.

dport
01-19-2007, 19:25
Originally posted by NavArch
Thanks, dport, for the heads-up on the possibility of the front sight getting popped off the pistol. After installing mine (notice I said "after"), I noticed that the taller than normal height, coupled with the wide "shoulders" of the front sight could lead to this type of problem.

I should have been more clear. It did not pop off the gun. It is no more susceptible to coming off than any other sight that uses a nut to secure it.

The problem is with the paint job. Notice the scratches on the right side of the sight. It took a drop and off went the paint. Not good.

NavArch
01-20-2007, 17:47
I saw the paint. I get that point. My concern was more about keeping the sight on the slide. When cleaning up from yesterday's practice, I found that the front sight on my G23 was a tad loose and figured out that I had managed to strip the threads on the hexscrew during the installation. My error - not used to dealing with threads that fine. I was just lucky that nothing came undone during my 200 round session yesterday at the range. So, I added the two drops of epoxy to each side of the sight. Just my solution.

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