Mounting option. A3/Eotech/Aimpoint Mag/BUIS

[lumberjack]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/DSC03681-1.jpg

This plain jane Bushmaster A3 is getting transformed for Christmas, here is a current list of the add ons:

Yankee Hill, 2 piece rail system
Tapco 6 position stock
Yankee Hill Quick Folding VG
CAA Saddle
Surefire X200B
GG&G A2 BUIS Rear sight
Eotech 552


I want to mount a Aimpoint magnifier on the gun also. The question is how? The forearm isn't a floater, so I am of the opinion the Eotech shouldn't be mounted there.

The BUIS will be mounted at the rear of the rail of course. I would like to keep the mag tube attached to the gun when not in use, I don't care if it attaches to the rails on the foregrip while in use, but I would strongly prefer it have a place to be stored on the gun.

I would like the Eotech to co-witness the irons in the lower 1/3 of the window, but this isn't a priority.

The La Rue mount that flips the mag out of the way, how rugged is the mount? How much space on the rail does it require? Does it lock to the side and lock in place? Does it rattle when its (locked?) out to the side?

Ideas and pictures welcome! If any of my opinions are incorrect, feel free to educate! Any accessories you feel are noteworthy, speak up. :)

ETA:
Sling suggestions would also be most helpful.

[lumberjack]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/StealthCarbine.jpg

I think thats its? Looks like a flip up BUIS (rear), quick twist for the mag tube, and the Eotech mounted on the rail.

The only thing is the mag tube doesn't stay on the gun. Is there a cheaper mount, perhaps on the rear of the tube to mount it to the front rail somewhere out of the way.


Any thoughts?

[MrMurphy]

Get rid of the CAA saddle.

The X200 is an excellent pistol light.

The AR is a rifle. For half as much (if I remember X200 pricing right) you can get a much brighter light suited for rifles.

Last i saw X200s ran for about $200+. A Surefire 9P or C2 is about $100 and a good mount (Vltor Scout, Larue, DD) runs about $30-70. Do the math..... and the 3-cell Surefires are much brighter.

I clear buildings and rooms every day at work with an M4 that has a 6P mounted and it's only good to about 25 yards to actually blind someone. I will upgrade to a 9P for this reason before I deploy. If you have a rifle, you need a light that'll throw the light far enough.


Realistically speaking unless you're taking SWAT headshots at 200m, you won't need the magnifier. Learn to shoot the rifle first, and what you can do with it using irons and the dot out to 300m first. Take a good rifle course. THEN decide if you actually need the magnifier. I can hit a 300m target with my Aimpoint routinely. Headshot? No. But i'm not worried about that.

[ColoradoGlocker]

.

[lumberjack]

I have had the rifle for a little over a 2years now Murphy, I actually talked to you back in the day (mid 04) about picking out the model I wanted.

The CAA saddle I am skeptical of, but for what I paid I can resale it if I don't like.

The X200B puts out 100 lumens for 1.5 hours. Based on my 80 lumens U2, I thought it would be fine? The 9P puts out 105 lumens, the 6P produces 65 lumens. If the X200 doesn't suit me I will put it on a Glock and pursue other lighting.

As far as being proficient with the irons, I have that fairly well covered.

I haven't shot with an Eotech, the 3x tube is to help round out the gun (hunting for example). For mounting it I am using the aimpoint quick twist, with another base that I will try out on the hand guard for storage.

As far as a carbine school, I am considering putting myself through the police academy, that is yet to be decided, but that would probably consume my "schooling" budget this year.

[MrMurphy]

I remember now....

The X200 I played with before going active duty didn't seem in teh 100 lumen range, is the 200B brighter?


Even if you can't get "formal schooling" running through some 3-gun stages etc would help learning the gun for close quarters fast use.


In the end, it's up to you.

[lumberjack]

The X200A is incandescent, the B is LED. The A model puts out 60 lumens Like I said, if I don't like it, I'll change it. Is the M3 Turbo Millennium® CombatLight® suitable for mounting on the AR? If so thats a viable option, putting out 125/225 lumens for 60/20 min. I contemplated having 2 lights, one for constant use, one for blinding fury of the sun use. The X200 lasts 1.5 hours, the M3T 20 at 225 lumes.

With the AR being low in recoil, what do you think about the M3T? I couldn't raise anyone at surefire yet.
"Shock isolation system provides extra recoil/impact protection for lamp filament "

ETA the main purpose of the CAA is battery storage, at least that's the idea for it.

I am shooting IDPA, after the matches and during practice we are going to start to incorporate 3 gun drills this coming year.

[Critter]

Originally posted by lumberjack
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/StealthCarbine.jpg

I think thats its? Looks like a flip up BUIS (rear), quick twist for the mag tube, and the Eotech mounted on the rail.

The only thing is the mag tube doesn't stay on the gun. Is there a cheaper mount, perhaps on the rear of the tube to mount it to the front rail somewhere out of the way.


Any thoughts?

How much does that set-up weigh?

[lumberjack]

I was wrong, the X200A isn't incandescent, but it is the posted lumens rating.

Talked to Surefire.

The M3T is gun mountable using 1" scope rings, high risers (need at least 1.25" rise, 1.5" would be easier. 1" riser rings and .5" rail raiser will do the job nicely. You can mount a ring in the middle or by the tail cap. I asked the rep why not mount a ring at both ends and call it a day, he acted like it was a good idea he should have thought of.

Surefire offers a mount, but they admit its not the strongest/most sturdy. You can buy the M3T pre-assembled to be rail mounted, but, you still get their mount.

One real use for the rifle, will be executing varmints (such as beavers) at night.

[c4igrant]

Originally posted by lumberjack
I have had the rifle for a little over a 2years now Murphy, I actually talked to you back in the day (mid 04) about picking out the model I wanted.

The CAA saddle I am skeptical of, but for what I paid I can resale it if I don't like.

The X200B puts out 100 lumens for 1.5 hours. Based on my 80 lumens U2, I thought it would be fine? The 9P puts out 105 lumens, the 6P produces 65 lumens. If the X200 doesn't suit me I will put it on a Glock and pursue other lighting.

As far as being proficient with the irons, I have that fairly well covered.

I haven't shot with an Eotech, the 3x tube is to help round out the gun (hunting for example). For mounting it I am using the aimpoint quick twist, with another base that I will try out on the hand guard for storage.

As far as a carbine school, I am considering putting myself through the police academy, that is yet to be decided, but that would probably consume my "schooling" budget this year.


The X200B is a poor choice for a carbine as its length of throw is very limited. Yes it puts out a lot of lumens, but you have to look at how far it can "throw light". A simple SF G2 with a shock isolated bezel is much cheaper and will give you a good weaponlight for the money.



C4


SF G2 with Z49 click tailcap and Z32 Shock Bezel
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SF/SF%20G2%20Z32%20Z49%20DD%20mount1.JPG

WG6D
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/WG%20Lights/WG6D%20by%20SJ.JPG

[lumberjack]

I will be able to throw light from here to yonder when needed. If I really dislike the X200, I will mount it on a Glock.


With the Aimpoint mount on the Aimpoint 3x tube, and the Eotech mounted without anything that causes it to rise... will the Aimpoint be inline with the Eotech? If so, whats the best way to raise it .3" to get the iron sights in the lower third of the Eotech? A YHM riser for the Eotech could raise the Eotech.

[c4igrant]

Originally posted by lumberjack
I will be able to throw light from here to yonder when needed. If I really dislike the X200, I will mount it on a Glock.


With the Aimpoint mount on the Aimpoint 3x tube, and the Eotech mounted without anything that causes it to rise... will the Aimpoint be inline with the Eotech? If so, whats the best way to raise it .3" to get the iron sights in the lower third of the Eotech? A YHM riser for the Eotech could raise the Eotech.

The best way I know of to get an EOTech and the Aimpoint 3X to line up perfectly is go with LaRue Tactical mounts. Their EOTech mount will put your irons in the lower 1/3 of the EOTech window and give you a QD/Repeat zero capability.


C4


LT EOTech mount and 3X mount
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/LT/3X%20mount%20with%20LT%20EOTech%20mount.jpg

[lumberjack]

The X200 came in today, the first and only item so far. I mounted it on a G20 and waited for night. I just made rounds around the house, pictures are a bit hard to take by myself.

I also couldn't check to see how well the like effects your night vision by myself without more work than I was wanting to undergo. What I could check was how far and how well I could see various objects at different distances.

25 yards and under was bright enough to see, especially if there was a background. At 25 yards I was able to see my black lab without seeing her eyes.

From a range of around 50 yards I was able to see 3 deer, the eyes caught my attention, at roughly 40-42 yards I could see well enough to take a shot with a rifle, I wouldn't feel comfortable with a 40 yard shot at night from a G20 loaded with 165 grain Gold Dots.

I didn't pace the distance, but from roughly 30-35 yards I could examine the upper canopy of a hickory tree to its full height of roughly 50-55'.

Having a background dramatically increases what you can see.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/G20withsurefire.jpg

[c4igrant]

Originally posted by lumberjack
The X200 came in today, the first and only item so far. I mounted it on a G20 and waited for night. I just made rounds around the house, pictures are a bit hard to take by myself.

I also couldn't check to see how well the like effects your night vision by myself without more work than I was wanting to undergo. What I could check was how far and how well I could see various objects at different distances.

25 yards and under was bright enough to see, especially if there was a background. At 25 yards I was able to see my black lab without seeing her eyes.

From a range of around 50 yards I was able to see 3 deer, the eyes caught my attention, at roughly 40-42 yards I could see well enough to take a shot with a rifle, I wouldn't feel comfortable with a 40 yard shot at night from a G20 loaded with 165 grain Gold Dots.

I didn't pace the distance, but from roughly 30-35 yards I could examine the upper canopy of a hickory tree to its full height of roughly 50-55'.

Having a background dramatically increases what you can see.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/G20withsurefire.jpg

25-30yds is about max with the X200B. You can of course see things at farther distances, you will not be able to see if the person has a firearm or a stick in their hand (which is the important part). This is why I like a light on long guns that has more throw.

Distance is your friend.


C4

[lumberjack]

I will have a light thrower on the gun, most likely an M3T CB, 225 lumens, I have a feeling that will be quite sufficent.

The reason for 2 lights? The X200 weighs under 4oz, not enough to be noticed. It puts out plenty of light for like you said 25-30 yards, and the batteries (2) last for 1.5 hours. The M3T weighs 9.9oz plus mounts, and puts out 125/225 lumens for 60/20 minutes (3 batts).

I don't need to see much about the deer except the shape of the body. In a defensive role in the good ole US of A taking a shot at or past 25-30 yards could likely be ruled homicide of some degree, hard to justify a threat. For indoor use, the X200 seems to be plenty.


And best of all.... if I don't like it, it can be changed. Having a light on the pistol is addictive, more X200's in my future!

:banana:

[c4igrant]

Originally posted by lumberjack
I will have a light thrower on the gun, most likely an M3T CB, 225 lumens, I have a feeling that will be quite sufficent.

The reason for 2 lights? The X200 weighs under 4oz, not enough to be noticed. It puts out plenty of light for like you said 25-30 yards, and the batteries (2) last for 1.5 hours. The M3T weighs 9.9oz plus mounts, and puts out 125/225 lumens for 60/20 minutes (3 batts).

I don't need to see much about the deer except the shape of the body. In a defensive role in the good ole US of A taking a shot at or past 25-30 yards could likely be ruled homicide of some degree, hard to justify a threat. For indoor use, the X200 seems to be plenty.


And best of all.... if I don't like it, it can be changed. Having a light on the pistol is addictive, more X200's in my future!

:banana:

If someone is on your property with a weapon I would engage them (no matter the distance). Not having a light that can tell me if they have a stick or a rifle is a bad idea in my book. The M3T is plenty of light for sure.


C4

[voraus]

I hope you'll keep it going as this bad boy takes shape

[lumberjack]

Being from the hospitality state and all, I would at least ask what they were doing first, its only proper;).


Of course I will keep the thread going, hate to be rude!

Does anyone know if the La Rue EOtech riser will work with aimpoints mount for the monocular, or is it proprietary and require the use of their mount?

If its proprietary, that's gay and I won't be having a gay rifle, it's not proper in the hospitality state.

[c4igrant]

Originally posted by lumberjack
Being from the hospitality state and all, I would at least ask what they were doing first, its only proper;).


Of course I will keep the thread going, hate to be rude!

Does anyone know if the La Rue EOtech riser will work with aimpoints mount for the monocular, or is it proprietary and require the use of their mount?

If its proprietary, that's gay and I won't be having a gay rifle, it's not proper in the hospitality state.


You have to use their mount.


C4

[lumberjack]

That's truly annoying.


Using Aimpoint's mount, do they co-witness?

[c4igrant]

Originally posted by lumberjack
That's truly annoying.


Using Aimpoint's mount, do they co-witness?

It will technically work, but the mount hangs off the mount. It also doe not line up perfectly like the LT mount does. Just as an FYI, the LT is 100% nicer than the Aimpoint twist mount can be removed just as fast.


C4

[lumberjack]

What I have recieved so far, the Eotech, Aimpoint and the mount, X200, and the mag tube extention and Side Saddle for the Nova.
Hopefully more will be here Tuesday!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/collectionsmall.jpg

[lumberjack]

Have a couple changes I found out I want, but overall I am quite pleased.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/IMG_8281.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/IMG_8284-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/IMG_8286.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/IMG_8289.jpg

[Toomas]

anyone have a glock with an eotech or optic mounted? My G20 is topped with an eotech and I'm curious if anyone else has had success or failure with this type of sighting configuration for a glock. What kind of mounting bracket are you using-I have an older glock so there's no accessory groove....

[c4igrant]

Originally posted by Toomas
anyone have a glock with an eotech or optic mounted? My G20 is topped with an eotech and I'm curious if anyone else has had success or failure with this type of sighting configuration for a glock. What kind of mounting bracket are you using-I have an older glock so there's no accessory groove....

I have to ask a silly question, but why would you want a big optic like an EOTech on a HG?

There are better options out there.


C4


Dr Optic
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Dr%20Optic/Glock%20Mount.jpg

[Toomas]

I have a few handgun optics as well as a red dot and 3 eotechs in my cache. I've selected the eotech to top my g20, a kel tec su16, and my hunting compound bow. The glock is a fine pistol without the sight, however I like to stretch it's reach. 6" kkm and some hot homeloads, along with the eotech keep my rapid weaver 50 yard headshots in a reasonable 6" group. Slow fire with some support and I can accurately place at 100 yards. Trying to use the 10mm to it's fullest potential. Only problem is that I've had some issues that may be related to the mount....

[lumberjack]

Took the AR out today to get it Zero'ed in, had a blast shooting it! Went through the 180 rounds I brought for it in a jiffy. Should get some more trigger time with it this week:supergrin:!

:wavey:

[Sikhed]

Toomas:
Do you have a frame mount on your G20?
I think a 10oz sight on the slide would cause cycle issues, even something as strong cycling as a 10mm with wimpy 17lb springs.

[Toomas]

Sikhed-my G20 is 2nd generation so it's without the molded in accessory rail. I have the eotech mounted far forward on an Aimtech base (mounts to the receiver, replacing pins with screws), lopping off the "excess" picatinny over the ejection port. 22 pound recoil spring with a stainless guide rod, 6"KKM match barrel, and a pachmyer rubber sleeve grip finish it off.

I've pounded some overhot loads through this piece-bordering on catastrophic case failure. Seems like the hotter loads may be related to my concern. My issue is with the clearance between the slide and the forwardmost portion of the aimtech mount-if there is enough play then the slide may be striking the aimtech and perhaps excessively impacting the eotech? My slide does show some signs of contact although the aimtech shows little sign (I'd expect the aluminum would have shown sign before the tenifer).

I'm trying not to mention the specific failure since I don't want to sound like I'm anything less than an eotech fan, and since eotech has been great about servicing the units. Also, I don't want anyone to jump to any conclusions or implications...