1911 only good as a doorstop compared to Glock 20

[SilverState]

We were having a discussion about the 10mm and I commented how I prefer to carry the .45acp in a 1911.

This guy named Bravo-Four from Oregon (with a "sniper" avatar) commented about how the 1911 is apprently inferior to the Glock 20 and how it is only good for jamming in a door that won't stay open, etc. etc.

Here's his quote:

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
Heh, how many rounds does it hold again, 7? Whether it is a Colt 1911, or a Wilson Combat, they are all the same thing over and over really. When compared to a G20, I don't see how it wins in any facet. But that is of course, my opinion, and I will try to see yours. Truth be told, my G20 is currently holding 21 rounds of DT 180gr Gold Dot. Sorry if Im a little blind, but having 3 times the capacity with a superior cartridge sounds like what im looking for, that along with no external safeties to fumble with seems like a more modernized high tech Slug-Caster.

Anyways, 1911's arent entirely that bad. For instance I have this door in my house that keeps closing, so I jam the 1911 in the hinge and it stays open. I doubt I could fit my glock in the door like that. Thanks Colt!

Here's the page of the thread containing the above quote:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=631400&perpage=&pagenumber=3

I just thought you guys would get a kick out of that.

[johnniekirk]

Sounds like the gentleman needs to take a trip to Camp Perry Oh.,next summer.

[happyguy]

Originally posted by SilverState
We were having a discussion about the 10mm and I commented how I prefer to carry the .45acp in a 1911.

This guy named Bravo-Four from Oregon (with a "sniper" avatar) commented about how the 1911 is apprently inferior to the Glock 20 and how it is only good for jamming in a door that won't stay open, etc. etc.

Here's his quote:



Here's the page of the thread containing the above quote:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=631400&perpage=&pagenumber=3

I just thought you guys would get a kick out of that.

"Bravo-Four"? Definitely mall-ninja material.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

[Lifer]

21 rounds?!? WoW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mine only holds 15+1
He must have a stealth black, mall ninja, hi capacity, custom made carbon fiber finished, steel lined with digital cammo pattern, wolfe springed after market mag with 6th generation updated Glock follower!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All I can say is Whew. I hope that Pelosi doesn't get wind of those being available on the open market or we are all DOOMED.

Lifer:harley:

Edited to add: I own 3 1911's in 10mm and more in 45. They are all cozy and warm in the safe. No guns used for doorstops in my house!!!

[Delta-x]

This guy (Bravo-4) , sounds like a poser/mall ninja/troll/green

horn/kid.... :rofl:

[collim1]

Glocks in general and especially the G21 are near bulletproof no-frills carry pistols. I chose a G23 to carry and am very satisfied.

However stating that 1911's in general are "doorstops" is an ignorant statement.

[paul45]

The uber mall ninja known as Bravo-four needs to change his tacticool handle to ........."Bravo Sierra"

[larry starling]

Originally posted by paul45
The uber mall ninja known as Bravo-four needs to change his tacticool handle to ........."Bravo Sierra"
Thats to true!!!! :laughabove:

[Jerseycitysteve]

With these mall ninjas, the 10mm is not only a weapon but a religion with DT ammo as the sacrament.

The 10mm is a great cartridge, but there are good reasons why no LEO agency carries them.

He is right about the comparison between the Glock and 1911 formats. Glocks are reliable out of the box. Reliable 1911s cost twice as much and carry half as much ammo in a heavier package.

The 1911 is a work of art and the Glock is ugly reliable plastic.

[1991]

Wow, 21 rounds! Anyone lacking the manual dexterity to operate a manual safety undoubtedly needs the extra 14 rounds - and probably more.

[SilverState]

This is GLOCK Talk, so many of us on this board find the Glock to be a formidable weapon with some advantages over other weapons.

However, I think the comments about how Bravo4 is a "mall ninja" might actually be based in truth. And the reason I say that is because most military-trained people understand the 1911's worth and service record. His comments are nothing but comedy.

:animlol:

BTW, I mentioned how I CCW one of two particular .45acp 1911s (commander bobtails) instead of my 10mm pistols (Glock 20, Kimber Stainless Target 10, and Colt Delta Elite). B4 starts talking about mags with 21 rounds. So let's see, large frame Glock PLUS HUGE +5 BASEPLATES. Oh, yeah, really sounds like a concealable pistol to me...

:upeyes:

[sheepdog]

Wow. 21 rounds. Bravo 4 must plan on missing a lot.
Gonna be a bloody bystander day at the mall.


Man, I feel bad about the sarcastic tone of my post. No, really, I do.

[Makoman]

Yeah, 21 rounds. Must not be practicing very much if you feel you need 21 rounds to hit a target. I'm praciticed enough in the handling of my series 80 1911 and plenty confident I won't need more than the 8+1 rds that it holds to hit my target and it's been realiable and accurate from the day I bought it.

[10mm4ever]

You have to remember that many board members are either very young, overly enthusiastic, or both! I LOVE my 1911's and they are my favorite pistols for recreational/target shooting, but not necessarily my "go to's", for different reasons. My first choice in a CCW/HP piece is my Glock 23, and if I'm in a position to carry in the open, it's my Glock 20. I rationalize, that if I'm going to tolerate a full size platform, 16 rounds of 10mm performance is what I want. A single stack .45 is NEVER a bad choice, but I rationalize that it's no longer my first, most logical choice for several different reasons. However, I'll close by stating that the 1911 will never be a "doorstop" in comparison to any other combat pistol. There's a big difference between a doorstop and a yardstick.:thumbsup:

[sheepdog]

Hey, all joking aside...I am not saying that 10mm Glock is bad at all, I just don't think it having 21 rounds handy is the main reason it is GOOD. But there is room for all of God's children. :thumbsup:

[zuby]

Our Soldiers carried 7 round 1911's in World War II and they seemed to do pretty well I would say. Un-educated comments about a pistol design that has been combat proven for almost 100 years and still remains in practical use.

I wonder if Bravo-four carries his little super pistol in a fanny pack.

:rofl:

[Alaskapopo]

There is a reason that LEO SWAT teams and Military Special Opps still generally prefers the 1911. The 1911 also dominates competition shooting. They are simply the best pistol for shooting fast and accurately with bar none.

A Glock 20 in the same league as the 1911 now thats a laugh.
Pat

[10mm4ever]

Who could argue with a man with your credentials Pat? Most impressive. :upeyes:

[freakshow10mm]

I've carried guns with capacities from 16+1 to 5 rounds and currently carry a G30 10+1. I have never felt undergunned or overgunned with any of them. I figure 15-17+1 capacity in a full size gun is plenty. If you roll with half of that that's cool. For LE, I tend to push for more capacity but that is a different animal than the casual armed civilian.


I'm taking sides with Pat on this one. I think the 1911 wins over the Glock. Even with 60% of LE using the Glock, they still have a long way to go to compete with the 1911. The Glock has come far in its time but is still leagues behind the 1911.

[freepatriot]

SS, what .45 ammo are you shooting at 185gr @ 1225fps ? that is like .357 mag velocity. Insane. What ammo is it?

[freakshow10mm]

http://sincitypitbulls.freeservers.com/SW1911PD.JPG
Looks like DT ammo from behind the gun's grip/MSH. Specs are on the box label, which ar DT boxes.

[freepatriot]

That is just insane.

[okie]

I think I will stick to my Kimbers anyway;) :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[SilverState]

Originally posted by freakshow10mm
Looks like DT ammo from behind the gun's grip/MSH. Specs are on the box label, which ar DT boxes.

Yes, Double Tap.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_34&products_id=93

[happyguy]

I really like my Lightweight Commander and G23, but the more I shoot my SIG 229 .40 S&W, the less I carry the others. The grip angle of the SIG is the same as the Commander and the capacity is almost the same as the G23. 12+1 of .40 S&W can be somewhat comforting. The only downside is the DA/SA transition and I am well on my way to overcoming that little deficiency.

One thing I noticed about the SIG, its a little heavier than the G23 and follow up shots are about as fast as my G19,(because of the increased weight I'm sure) maybe even a little faster.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

[freepatriot]

I carry my 1911 instead of my 10mm because I don't own any 10mm

:supergrin:

But seriously... I put the 1911 ammo on target, so I carry it.:)

[spcwes]

I am still waiting for some one to get with B4 on his 21 round mags! Over spaz or not, we should line up and help him understand his place.

[DoubleDog]

Originally posted by scottauld
I carry my 1911 instead of my 10mm because I don't own any 10mm

:supergrin:

But seriously... I put the 1911 ammo on target, so I carry it.:)

Dito...

I've never even shot a 10mm...Like Scott, I'll stick with what I can put on target...

DD~

[OJ]

Glocks are really great pistols - I have five including the G20&29.
They are durable, reliable, easily repaired and cleaned, and are accurate.

That said, my three 1911A1 pistols have the same qualities plus one thing a Glock can never give you - a really good trigger!;)

True, the Glocks have magazines with greater capacity but, with a really good trigger, perhaps eight rounds is enough. :)

Esthetically speaking, no Glock will ever look like this and win your heart.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/HANDGUNS/PB180004.jpg



:laughabove:

[DocH]

I too like my Glocks and carry them often,but nothing in a handgun inspires me like a good full size 1911. I don't think they make good door stops either.Door busters,maybe? Yeah,that sounds about right.:)

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by spcwes
I am still waiting for some one to get with B4 on his 21 round mags! Over spaz or not, we should line up and help him understand his place. ;)

[Gibbles]

Oh hell, Sounds like the same old wanabe know it all blabbing about stuff he has no clue on.
Reminds me of one of my wifes old friends, we went on a double date with him and his wife, and he is a avid glocker. The moment I mention I own 1911's he would not shut up the rest of the night about how glocks are sooooo much better than 1911's, even tho I just tried to be nice and change the subject. :crazy:
Glocks are nice but damn... :upeyes:

[freepatriot]

His comments re: "8-year old sized hands" & "grandpa's musket" have outed him as a troll, just posting crap to stir up emotion. :upeyes:

He is a typical 26 year old defending his own choices in gun ownership by deriding other people's choices, which he probably hzs no personal experience with.

Poor fella.






I was 26 once, I know the type ;) :supergrin:

[10mm4ever]

Originally posted by scottauld
His comments re: "8-year old sized hands" & "grandpa's musket" have outed him as a troll, just posting crap to stir up emotion. :upeyes:

He is a typical 26 year old defending his own choices in gun ownership by deriding other people's choices, which he probably hzs no personal experience with.

Poor fella.






I was 26 once, I know the type ;) :supergrin: +100, couldnt agree more. However, there are several on the board that spread rumors, etc. about other platforms/caliber choices in an attempt to add "weight" to their supposed knowledge/opinions. They all tend to come off as inexperienced/insecure and they dont even realize it.

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by scottauld
His comments re: "8-year old sized hands" & "grandpa's musket" have outed him as a troll, just posting crap to stir up emotion. :upeyes:

He is a typical 26 year old defending his own choices in gun ownership by deriding other people's choices, which he probably hzs no personal experience with.

Poor fella.






I was 26 once, I know the type ;) :supergrin:

Yea he probably gets all his knowledge from gun magazines.
Pat

[Lifer]

And notice.......
Bravo-Four seems to have disappeared. I have not see a posting from him for some time. He is either on extended vacation or has read these comments about himself. I have no doubt that he will return in all his full former glory or maybe in another life form (screen handle):rollingeyes:
Happy New Year to all!!!

Lifer:harley:

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by Lifer
And notice.......
Bravo-Four seems to have disappeared. I have not see a posting from him for some time. He is either on extended vacation or has read these comments about himself. I have no doubt that he will return in all his full former glory or maybe in another life form (screen handle):rollingeyes:
Happy New Year to all!!!

Lifer:harley:

I hope not. I want to see a pic of the carry rig with the +5 extension on it.

[Delta-x]

Originally posted by Lifer
And notice.......
Bravo-Four seems to have disappeared. I have not see a posting from him for some time. He is either on extended vacation or has read these comments about himself. I have no doubt that he will return in all his full former glory or maybe in another life form (screen handle):rollingeyes:
Happy New Year to all!!!

Lifer:harley:

B4 is grounded!:upeyes:

[RickJZ]

Originally posted by Delta-x
This guy (Bravo-4) , sounds like a poser/mall ninja/troll/green

horn/kid.... :rofl:
+1

[LBTRS]

Hmmm...I share his thoughts, however, mine are just the opposite and I find little use for a Glock. :supergrin:

I love the 1911.

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by LBTRS
Hmmm...I share his thoughts, however, mine are just the opposite and I find little use for a Glock. :supergrin:

I love the 1911.


I like my guns and don't feel the need to criticize other people's guns to convince myself. ;)



One thing I discovered at the 2005 SHOT show is that I like guns. ALL guns. Before I went there, I was pretty much a Smith and Wesson guy, meaning that I believed that if a revolver was not a S & W, it was crap. But as I walked the floor, talking to manufacturers and representatives, handling the many many guns, I began to realize that all of the gunmakers there work very, very hard at engineering the finest weapons that they can. I have, in the past, made sneering comments in the past at guns by companies that I considered "inferior" (Taurus, for example, or Ruger) simply because they weren't Smith and Wesson. How foolish! This SHOT show made me understand that I can still have my favorites and yet I can respect the rest. I know this sounds obvious, but it really was an epiphany for me, and I had some crow to eat when I got back. Search the GT posts and you will see a marked difference in how I approached other people's guns before and after Jan 2005.

S

[cjlandry]

Originally posted by scottauld
His comments re: "8-year old sized hands" & "grandpa's musket" have outed him as a troll, just posting crap to stir up emotion. :upeyes:

He is a typical 26 year old defending his own choices in gun ownership by deriding other people's choices, which he probably hzs no personal experience with.

Poor fella.






I was 26 once, I know the type ;) :supergrin:

I know exactly what you mean, Scott.

When I was 26, I had no use for anything without a revolving cylinder and a single-action. Magazine fed handguns were for Bond movies, and double-action was simply unmanageable.

Then I fired a Glock 20, and fell in love with the design. I had no problem with the 10mm, but chose .40 for the lower ammo cost (which meant more practice).

Now I'm ready to step up to a 1911, because it's gotta run as well as a Glock, and it's obviously gotta have a much better trigger.

If I can get a decent group with a handgun with a mediocre trigger, it can only get better with a 1911.

[LBTRS]

Originally posted by scottauld
[B]I like my guns and don't feel the need to criticize other people's guns to convince myself. ;)


Criticize other peoples guns? Why are you quoting me, I criticized no ones guns. I did state MY opinion of Glocks, which I own several of. I own many, many guns and I have little to no use for Glocks, they sit in my safes collecting dust.

You don't feel the need to criticize other peoples guns but you do feel the need to quote me and criticize my post? Not to mention, it was a post you obviously didn't understand when you read it as there is no criticism of any "other people's guns".

Thanks for being the moral authority on GT.

[cjlandry]

Originally posted by LBTRS
Criticize other peoples guns? Why are you quoting me, I criticized no ones guns. I did state MY opinion of Glocks, which I own several of. I own many, many guns and I have little to no use for Glocks, they sit in my safes collecting dust.

You don't feel the need to criticize other peoples guns but you do feel the need to quote me and criticize my post? Not to mention, it was a post you obviously didn't understand when you read it as there is no criticism of any "other people's guns".

Thanks for being the moral authority on GT.
I thought he quoted you because he was agreeing with you.

[spcwes]

I think that was the case as well. I think he was referring t the MN that made the derogatory comments about all other guns than what he was using.

[LBTRS]

Originally posted by cjlandry
I thought he quoted you because he was agreeing with you.

I made a comment about not having any use for a Glock, does he agree with that? What is he agreeing with?

If you read his entire post you can see he's comparing me to himself prior to him going to the Shot Show.

Everyone should use the gun they are comfortable with and find attractive to them. Any gun is better than no gun at all. As I stated, I own Glocks myself so I'm certainly not giving anyone a hard time for owning/shooting a Glock. I am saying I choose to use other guns for defense/carry purposes and find little use for Glocks.

Happy New Year to all!

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by cjlandry
I thought he quoted you because he was agreeing with you. Exactly, I quoted him and then posted in agreement.

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by LBTRS
If you read his entire post you can see he's comparing me to himself prior to him going to the Shot Show.

No, B4's comments remind me of me before the SHOT show. I was posting in agreement with you. Jeeze.

[LBTRS]

Originally posted by scottauld
No, B4's comments remind me of me before the SHOT show. I was posting in agreement with you. Jeeze.

Well then, I apologize for jumping off the handle and misunderstanding your post.

Happy New Year!

[Bravo-Four]

My own appreciation thread, cool beans :hearts:

No seriously, 1911's do have their time honored place and just about everyone into firearms owns one. I bought a brand new Mil-Spec OD one from Springfield, it was alright but I ended up selling it. When I made the comment about it being a doorstop, the supreme court justice (forget his screename the same guy who thinks you'll wind up in prison for defending yourself with a 10mm) took it extremely seriously and thought that I would actually do something like that. Some others got offended when I started saying crazy things like "G20 has higher capacity" and "shoots flatter and has more M.E." God forbid I make up any more nonsense like that. Sorry, I got pretty thick skin, and I apologize if I offended you Scottauld.

Someone had a question about how you carry a G20. I myself use the Tac Holster from Tactical Tailor or an Injection Molded Kydex from Uncle Mike's. In either case, a 10 15rd 17rd or 20rd magazine doesn't interfere with operation. I never use the G20 for carry as I have a G29 which I'll either use with a 10 or 15rd mag.

my 29:
http://f5.putfile.com/6/16421135058.jpg

H&K .45's work for me too (w/G20):
http://f5.putfile.com/5/12501313382.jpg

[spcwes]

Only once since I have been a member here have I ever witnessed someone attempt tooting their own horn as much as you do. The other guys was talking about his mustang mommy and daddy bought him and that we must not know anything about it because we are old and stuff.....:upeyes:

You know why people, those who actually get into gun fights want to carry B4? 1911's, not Glock 20's. Do you know why? I know since you seem to want everyone here to think you are infantry and a sniper and all, they all must be stupid because you are the real deal and they know crap, right?

You see what you seem failing to comprehend is that no one stated the Glock 20 or the 10mm was a bad round or weapon. Most of the people you are talking have either shot one, own or two in some cases and still do. We too have used Double Tap and yea, it is pretty much as good as it gets. Heck, as early as last year I had a Glock 20 in my duty holster stuffed with 180gr Gold Dots on the streets.

What the hell are you even talking about? I have figured you out all you are doing is starting arguments. Most factory loaded 10mm ammo is just like shooting 40SW. They have downloaded it to the point it appeared they were pushing customers to leave it and go with the 40SW. That makes good full power 10mm ammo expensive and somewhat hard to come by for most thus making it the 1st reason why, even though it is flat shooting and hard hitting it is not carried by all the cops and military in the world like you seem to think it should be.

They carry 9mm's, 40SW, 45ACP', and 357sig. I know, take a moment it will take some time for you to come to grip.

2nd, the Glock 20 although being one of the most reliable and powerful defensive packages does not fit everyone, thus that point alone means it is not the best 10mm ever made, just your favorite. Here, as you can see from the posts above, what you think means less than little to us.

LE and Military are in the same boat on the size issue of the Glock 20 or the one that was actually tested over and over, the Glock 21 in 45ACP, not 10mm.

Last in summery the reason the 1911 is a more viable weapon in a lot of situations is one they are accurate, reliable when built right and easy for more of a wider variety of shooters to handle. That is why most if not all of the SRT's and SOCOM groups that can have a different weapon than normal issue go with the 1911 in 45ACP, not the Glock 20.

You know, the guys slinging lead? I know, this may suck for you, but in time you will get over it. Oh, and just so you know, there are several high cap 10mm 1911’s that hold close to as many rounds as you claim to carry in your 10mm, with longer barrels and better grips.

[Bravo-Four]

Wow, you are angry for some reason. Like I have said over before, use what you have to use, and I'll try to see your opinion. If you want to use 1911 thats fine, if I want to use G20 thats fine too. I don't really see what sort of argument is going on other than you trying to make me out to be some bad guy because I hurt your feelings or something. I made some friendly jokes about the 1911 in -THE TEN RING- and it has obviously got you fired up.

Do some research and look into +5 baseplates if you are so utterly convinced no such things exist. Yes, im more than aware of extremely high cap mags for 1911. They look kind of like the 30+ rounders hanging out the bottom of a G18.

[cjlandry]

So tell us of your successes with a handgun, Bravo-Four.

From my experience, snipers have little use for a handgun.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Bravo-Four]

Well, I have had no KB's or FTE's lately, all is well :)

[SilverState]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
Yes, +5 mag extensions. You can also buy +2 ones. From there, you simply count. I hope this makes sense now.

:mallninja:

Those pics you posted, are those your mags with the +5 extensions?
:rollingeyes:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
When I made the comment about it being a doorstop...

Yes, a very ignorant comment from someone who now claims to have owned a 1911 and later sold it, instead of currently owning one that is only good for jamming in the door hinge. So you are being less than truthful now or you were being less than truthful then. Either way, doesn't do much for your credibility. Sometimes, people say things that are so ridiculous, that you have to share them (this thread).

Originally posted by Bravo-Four ...the supreme court justice (forget his screename the same guy who thinks you'll wind up in prison for defending yourself with a 10mm)...

Never claimed to be associated with the supreme court or a justice. Just a criminal law attorney. Never said you will wind up in prison...Just gave people something to think about before ending up in court trying to show that a killing was in self defense. Some people have to learn the hard way. Others don't mind a different perspective.

In fact, re-read the thread from PhotoCop. You will see that I mentioned MY CHOICE of a .45acp bobtail commander-sized 1911. People took issue with that and I explained why I made that decision. I also noted that I have 10mm pistols and I like the 10mm cartridge. Nonetheless, I provided a reason that makes sense given my experience, which is something you and I don't share.

Originally posted by Bravo-Four ...took it extremely seriously and thought that I would actually do something like that...

Took what very seriously? The possibility that someone with a pistol might end up using it to defend their life? Well no sh-t! It is a serious topic. It is not a topic to joke or pretend about.

Originally posted by Bravo-Four ...Some others got offended when I started saying crazy things like "G20 has higher capacity" and "shoots flatter and has more M.E." God forbid I make up any more nonsense like that...

No one is disputing that the Glock 20 with a standard mag holds more rounds than the typical 1911. But like I said before, you don't need that many rounds for a CCW weapon, and if you re-read PhotoCop's thread, you will see that I was talking about a ccw weapon. Also, most self-defense shootings happen at relatively close range, so flatter shooting doesn't matter as much. And by the way, the Glock 20 is not so practical as a ccw weapon because of its width. And, with the .45acp ammo I use (Gold Dot Double Tap 185gr 1225fps), the advantage of a 10mm is marginal.

Originally posted by Bravo-Four ...I never use the G20 for carry...

This is the first we are hearing of this Glock 29 without the 21 round mags...
:chatter:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bottom line is that you have a problem communicating. It appears that you write before you think. Then you backtrack and try to say that the 1911 has time-honored place and that you used to own one etc. Guess what, people who know are using it NOW because it is a proven manstopper. It has been doing that same task for a hundred years and despite your view on things, most people consider that record to be a plus, not a negative. And as was mentioned, many of us own Glocks, even 10mm Glocks, but we choose to carry a 1911. If you do not, no one is twisting your arm. Get over it.

:panties:

[spcwes]

No, not angry, not at all. Did not take what you said as a joke and even now that you are back peddling, I still don't.

You come of as a punk and you did insult some folks of which there is no doubt have more experience behind handguns than you will for some time if not ever. Does that upset me, heck no this in the internet and people just like you do this all the time, I have neither the time nor inclination to let things like that piss me off.

Does that mean I will just allow it to go on without comment? No this is the internet and that is what it is for. Just stop talking or except that we will talk to you in the same manner as you did us and if you don’t like it to bad. That still does not mean we are upset, just letting the cards fall. Take it or bow out, that is the beauty of the NET and you brought this on yourself.

The way you present your messages and replies here would cause me to call anything and everything you have to say or try to pass into question. That is just because I have been playing this game for some time now, even though I am still not considered an “old timer.”

[Bravo-Four]

You keep posting all these .45 terms like I said completely the opposite of them. You are doing nothing but listing facts I never complained about, in an attempt to make other people think I said them or don't believe them. In a nutshell, if you put words in my mouth people are going to believe it. I could do the same for you and get the same results. 1911 is a good format, but note the ones I use instead (pics). 1911 has a great trigger, but I might argue the H&K ones to be of even higher quality. I see too many pros out of H&K/GLOCK 45's to necessitate needing a 1911. Go ahead and use yours if you wish, thats on you.

Bottom line, your taking my friendly jokes from another thread and attempting to drag my screename through the mud doing it lol. Heh, do what you got to do. See, i dont -live- on the GlockTalk forums, it really means little to me. But if you are so stone cold set in your false perceptions of what my beliefs are, then go ahead.

Originally posted by spcwes
You come off as a punk
Yeah, and you come off as some douche-bag internet tough guy that likes to make all sorts of assumptions without any facts. Get some clues Barney Fife, your concept is laughable.

[SilverState]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
You are doing nothing but listing facts I never complained about

I quoted you.

[Gibbles]

please, this fool is posting this in the 1911 club forum to get a reaction.
Don't even bother to entertain him. :upeyes:

[Bravo-Four]

Don't bother. Threadstarter got this place nice and brainwashed to begin with. If anyone needs anything else, just PM me or catch me in the 10ring. When someone makes a thread about you of course you are going to reply.

[Gibbles]

:supergrin:

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
I could do the same for you and get the same results. 1911 is a good format, but note the ones I use instead (pics). 1911 has a great trigger, but I might argue the H&K ones to be of even higher quality. I see too many pros out of H&K/GLOCK 45's to necessitate needing a 1911. Go ahead and use yours if you wish, thats on you.
any facts. Get some clues Barney Fife, your concept is laughable.

Calling someone Barney Fife is not a very mature way to get your point across. Now back on topic.

I carried an HK USP in 45 my first 18 months as a police officer. It was a fine gun but its top heavy, which magnifies recoil, the trigger in DA sucked in SA it was ok but it had a very long reset. More LEO and Military special teams use Custom 1911's than HK's by far. The Seals has HK SOCOM pistols at thier disposal but never use them instead using their trusty Sig 226's.

HK makes fine guns as does Glock but Custom 1911's are still the pistol most chosen by professionals with good reason.
Pat

[jonathon]

Must be from Portland. 10mm is the bare minimum it takes to stop those foaming in the mouth hairy hippie women. :rofl:

[spcwes]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
Yeah, and you come off as some douche-bag internet tough guy that likes to make all sorts of assumptions without any facts. Get some clues Barney Fife, your concept is laughable.

Nope, not tough, just informed of what really goes on in the real world. Keep back peddling, that is what you are becoming real good at.

:animlol:

Barney Fife, now there is fella with integrity!

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by jonathon
Must be from Portland. 10mm is the bare minimum it takes to stop those foaming in the mouth hairy hippie women. :rofl:

Yep and their fast so you need at least 21 rounds just to hit them. If they get too close to you they can kill you with their BO.
:banana:

Edited to add the banana because some PEOPLE did not realize this was a joke.:animlol:
Pat

[Gasoil4ever]

Hi all !

I like to read those highly argumented threads, it improves my english :supergrin:

B4 if you don't mind i have a little comment : it's "vEni vidi vici", and not "vIni vidi vici" ;)

veni means "to come" in Latin, which became "Venir" in French, "Venire" in italian etc.

I've read your comments, and can understand they were meant to be jokes. But seriously before you said it, the way they are written (starting from your first post), they didn't look like jokes to me at all (maybe my english is too poor...or am i just stupid).

I don't understand how can anyone imagine he will be listened to giving so much BS about a gun that as become a Legend amongst the world of shooting... I am a Glock lover, i even have traded my 1911 Colt Gold Cup for a G26 because i didn't like shooting with it that much. But come on, how can one criticize a gun/caliber that has been proving its reliability, accuracy, etc over a 100yrs ??? Of course you can get a more powerful caliber, more magazine capacity or what so ever, just like you can get better fuel economy, room or power from other sports cars than a Porsche 911, but a 911 IS a 911 !! A Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX, is faster on the Nürbürgring, a five seater, an AWD and costs 1/3 of a 911 (997), but the 911 has a legend behind her, and it is noble, what a Mitsu will never be... And a 1911/.45ACP IS a 1911/.45ACP for the same reasons. Other exemple, why buy a painting by Picasso for a million dollar, when you can get a super-high-end home cinema, with motion picture and 12 billion Watts 7.1 surround sound ???

Gasoil


P.S : Eventhough the Glock 20 is my next purchase it wont make it the "best thing you can get" just because i own one... or because its recent... Some "old" design are still the best on the market... look at a wheel... its quite old, but still the best way to move something on the ground...

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by LBTRS
Well then, I apologize for jumping off the handle and misunderstanding your post.

Happy New Year! :banana:

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
Some others got offended when I started saying crazy things like "G20 has higher capacity" and "shoots flatter and has more M.E." God forbid I make up any more nonsense like that. Sorry, I got pretty thick skin, and I apologize if I offended you Scottauld.


If you think your comments re: higher capacity and bullet trajectory were your only offensive comments, then you don't get it. ;)

[10mm4ever]

I'm confused, I thought we all knew who the resident "Barney Phife" of GT is and it's definately not SPCWES.

[10mm4ever]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
Yep and their fast so you need at least 21 rounds just to hit them. If they get too close to you they can kill you with their BO.
Pat That's a bit strange coming from someone that constantly mentions that one of the(many) advantages to the 9mm(over other calibers) is it's higher capacity. As usual, just jump to another forum and tell a different story.

[happyguy]

I don't know about you guys, but in my neck of the woods an H&K + Suppressor = Mall Ninja

Regards,
Happyguy :)

[Lifer]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
1911 has a great trigger, but I might argue the H&K ones to be of even higher quality.

I have an HK USP45 and, although it's a fine weapon, the DA trigger pull is bad. I know others that love their HK's but all admit that the DA trigger is bad. B4, do you really think that the HK trigger is HIGHER QUALITY?!?!?!?

Just wondering

Lifer:harley:

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
In either case, a 10 15rd 17rd or 20rd magazine doesn't interfere with operation. I never use the G20 for carry as I have a G29 which I'll either use with a 10 or 15rd mag.


B4... let me get this straight.

Your original assertion that a carry 1911 is crappy vs. the G20 because of ammo capacity was ... for what reason? You started out bashing the 1911 and the people who carry them, based on the premise that a G20 with 21 rounds is superior to a 1911 with 9 rounds in it. But it turns out that you are actually carrying a G29, sometimes with 11 rounds in it. So, you are gaining two rounds in the gun and the marvelously smooth Glock trigger action?



In case you need a refresher what you said re: the 1911 and the G20:

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
Heh, how many rounds does it hold again, 7? Whether it is a Colt 1911, or a Wilson Combat, they are all the same thing over and over really. When compared to a G20, I don't see how it wins in any facet.

Truth be told, my G20 is currently holding 21 rounds of DT 180gr Gold Dot. Sorry if Im a little blind, but having 3 times the capacity with a superior cartridge sounds like what im looking for, that along with no external safeties to fumble with seems like a more modernized high tech Slug-Caster.

...

In addition to having a small capacity due to its clinically obese shape, there really is no reason for comparison.



Scott :beer:

PS - why did you say "Thanks Colt" when denigrating the 1911, when it turned out to be the entry-level Springfield Mil Spec that you had such low regard for?

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
Anyways, 1911's arent entirely that bad. For instance I have this door in my house that keeps closing, so I jam the 1911 in the hinge and it stays open. I doubt I could fit my glock in the door like that. Thanks Colt!





It takes a big man to admit when he's put his foot in his mouth. How big a fella are you?



EDITED to add: thanks for your service, B4, something I try to remember to say to veterans when I get a chance. Where in Oregon are you stationed?

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by Lifer
I have an HK USP45 and, although it's a fine weapon, the DA trigger pull is bad. I know others that love their HK's but all admit that the DA trigger is bad. B4, do you really think that the HK trigger is HIGHER QUALITY?!?!?!?

Just wondering

Lifer:harley:


I can imagine his HK having a better SA trigger than his entry level Springfield Mil Spec before break in. Not after. Some of those Springers have a fairly long take up compared to the way MOST 1911s are set up. I think B4 does not have extensive experience with the 1911 platform, and was making comments based on what he has held (the Springer) and now he regrets he ever started it.

If the 10mm is the "thinking man's cartridge", what is the "fighting man's cartridge?"

:supergrin: :supergrin: :supergrin:

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by scottauld
If the 10mm is the "thinking man's cartridge", what is the "fighting man's cartridge?"

:supergrin: :supergrin: :supergrin:

If the 10mm is the thinking mas cartridge it would see more use with LEO SWAT teams and Military Special operations teams. You would also see professional firearms instructors using it and you don't. In fact the one thing universal about the 10mm is its lack of popularity. Its a non player as a police and military round. Its seldom purchased as a ccw round. Only die hard cult like fans seem to like it.
Pat

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
If the 10mm is the thinking mas cartridge it would see more use with LEO SWAT teams and Military Special operations teams. You would also see professional firearms instructors using it and you don't. In fact the one thing universal about the 10mm is its lack of popularity. Its a non player as a police and military round. Its seldom purchased as a ccw round. Only die hard cult like fans seem to like it.
Pat



None of which is bad or good, right? It is what it is.

<--- has no reason to make fun of anyone's cult, being the wheelgun lover and all. :)

[David N.]

Originally posted by Gibbles
please, this fool is posting this in the 1911 club forum to get a reaction.
Don't even bother to entertain him. :upeyes:

Seems to me the thread was started about him, to bash him, in a forum he quite likely doesn't usually read. He was then criticized for not answering in this thread.

And just as many insults are being thrown at him as are coming from him. Neither side in this argument seems interested in capturing the moral high ground.

[SilverState]

Originally posted by David N.
Seems to me the thread was started about him, to bash him, in a forum he quite likely doesn't usually read. He was then criticized for not answering in this thread.

And just as many insults are being thrown at him as are coming from him. Neither side in this argument seems interested in capturing the moral high ground.

Was this thread started to "bash him"?

I just re-read my original post in this thread. I gave a synopsis of what our discussion was about in the other thread. I identified "him" by his username, avatar, and location. I then indicated what he said followed by a direct quote and then a link to the entire thread. If his own words make him look bad, then so be it.

He bashed himself:

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
:mallninja:

[Bravo-Four]

Originally posted by David N.
Seems to me the thread was started about him, to bash him, in a forum he quite likely doesn't usually read. He was then criticized for not answering in this thread.

And just as many insults are being thrown at him as are coming from him. Neither side in this argument seems interested in capturing the moral high ground.

Point taken. In which case, I'll -politely- explain my -opinion- on the 1911. Whether its a $400 Milspec, or a $2000+ Wilson combat, they are all basically the same thing over and over. Its a hugely successful weapon and comes in a million flavors and a million colors to tickle everyone's fancy. Alaskapopo brought up the fact earlier that some of the most elite LE/MIL continue to use 1911 formats to this day. That is most very true, for one of the simplest reasons: If it aint broke, dont fix it. In a world dominated by rifles, -any- pistol would do really, it simply isnt an issue for these types of groups to nit pick such insignificant details of which pistol to use, its not really relevant to the problems they face, and the current 1911's do the job just fine.

What I was saying is, a G20 does all that, among many other modern automatics, and then some. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it's almost undeniable. If pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles why not try to use whats best in each category? You say 45 is a time proven reliable manstopper. That is very true, it is. But Im willing to bet some bucks 10mm would be even better due to its many ballistic advantages from penetrating barriers to certain body armor. In addition to that, you have more capacity. Someone insulted me earlier saying "ooh you plan on missing alot so you carry that many rounds." Thats hogwash. Double+ capacity is in -no- way a disadvantage, and its BS to try and say more ammo is worse than little ammo. Then you have reliability. I'll leave this one pretty much open to interpretation. Alot of people on this -GLOCK forum- attest to the fact that glocks are more reliable out of the box than many other handguns. I have read through some of the kimber threads and I hear things such as "break in periods" and "constant spring replacements" due to the touchiness of the 1911. While any of that is true or not, that is up to you to say.

I remember my 1911 being pretty finicky and needing lots of attention compared to my other more modern semi-autos. The thing took forever to take a part and put back together, when I can honestly field strip and clean my glocks 10 times faster. I hear other people say accuracy and trigger squeeze are better on the 1911. Whether it does or not...This isnt a precision rifle. How precise do you really want to get at 25 meters? I can keep a respectable group with almost any handgun, thats really a null and void point.

Anyways, just food for thought. If you like carrying the 1911, then have at it. Everyone and their dog carries it, its very popular in society. God knows when I get a few extra buck I'll be buying both of those 10mm kimbers. ;)

[freepatriot]

You are a strange duck, B4. You start off by conceding as true everything we've said about JMB's design, and then you go right back to tossing around the internet gun-store commando untruths:

<ul>
<li> Whether its a $400 Milspec, or a $2000+ Wilson combat, they are all basically the same thing over and over.
<li> In addition to that, you have (double+) capacity
<li> "break in periods" and "constant spring replacements" due to the touchiness of the 1911.
<li> The thing took forever to take a part and put back together, when I can honestly field strip and clean my glocks 10 times faster (your inability to learn to field strip a 1911 in fifteen seconds is unfortunate, but it is not our experience)
</ul>

And to top it off, you do not offer any apologies whatsoever for the outright insults you have flung at (literally millions of) people who have carried the 1911 by choice.

Edited for brevity.

Have a great day.

[10mm4ever]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
If the 10mm is the thinking mas cartridge it would see more use with LEO SWAT teams and Military Special operations teams. You would also see professional firearms instructors using it and you don't. In fact the one thing universal about the 10mm is its lack of popularity. Its a non player as a police and military round. Its seldom purchased as a ccw round. Only die hard cult like fans seem to like it.
Pat I'm in a somewhat "neutral" stance here. But basing your opinion off of somethings popularity, is more void of an individual opinion. Let's face it, both have their place and both can be extremely effective when used within their own parameters and by a skilled hand. Having the ability to take deer, wild boar and 400+lb. blackbear with a service size pistol may not be "popular", but regardless, all around performance whether in the field, or in an SD situation is something that's undeniable. There's more than enough room in my safe for all of them! Trading childish insults back and forth, as to what type of people "you've observed" using certain calibers, and spreading internet rumors about how all Glock .40's are "hand grenades",etc. is the hallmark of an inexperienced, childish oaf, Pat. I can pull up a post, by you(if you'd like), wherein you stated "my observations of 10mm fanatics are that they're not accurate, or very intelligent". Those whom constantly change their own opinions, calibers and statements to continually contradict themselves are entertaining at best, wasnt your screen name until very recently ".355SIGFAN",and oh how you preached about the .357SIG! How many times have you stated at caliber corner, that it's the gun,not the caliber that make the 1911 so great and that you'd prefer a 1911 in 9mm, if it were reliable enough to meet your"standards"?? Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but when it changes like the weather and constantly contradicts itself on a day to day basis, their opinion doesnt matter(because it really doesnt exist).

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
Thats hogwash. Double+ capacity is in -no- way a disadvantage, and its BS to try and say more ammo is worse than little ammo.

I hear other people say accuracy and trigger squeeze are better on the 1911. Whether it does or not...This isnt a precision rifle. How precise do you really want to get at 25 meters?


Do you see any conflict here? I do. You argue that people should not dismiss capacity as an argument, and then dismiss trigger as an argument. You are making a judgement on which facets of the weapon are valid to consider and which are not. This judgement is based on your opinion, and you expect everyone to agree with you.

Try a nice 1911 some day.

Scott

[Bravo-Four]

Originally posted by scottauld
Do you see any conflict here? I do. You argue that people should not dismiss capacity as an argument, and then dismiss trigger as an argument. You are making a judgement on which facets of the weapon are valid to consider and which are not. This judgement is based on your opinion, and you expect everyone to agree with you.

Try a nice 1911 some day.

Scott

Perhaps my wording could have been used better than. -If you are shooting the same sized groups and the same range with both pistols, you are pretty much negating this great trigger pull. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, as they already don't. And I will try a nice 1911 some day, its just not currently on my list of things to buy.

-Here is a quote from another thread here
Originally posted by m4rcus
I just sold that same gun (in stainless though) to fund a Glock 21..imagine that.

What really bugged me about the Pro Carry was that you can't break it down without a tool, and because it's so tight, you really have to clean it thouroughly every time you shoot. Oh and replacing the recoil spring every 800 rounds can be a pain too.. A very nice gun if all the extra maintenance doesn't bother you.

Sounds like a pain in the ass to me ;)

Originally posted by Kruzr
Just remember that the factory recommended recoil spring replacement life for the Pro size Kimbers is 800 rounds. You can get away with 1000 rounds but don't go too much more than that.


:shakehead: Thats just..pathetic/terrible/sad?

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
And I will try a nice 1911 some day, its just not currently on my list of things to buy.


Are you schizophrenic? You said only a few posts ago that two Kimbers in 10 mil are on your list of things to buy "when you get a few extra bucks". Now, you say (1) they're not on your list, and (2) the factory-recommended recoil spring replacement cycle for the Pro size Kimbers is "pathetic/terrible/sad"


S :beer:

[freepatriot]

I don't know if this helps you or not B4, but I can take my 1911s apart with no tools other than the ones God attached to the ends of my hands. Also, replacing a recoil spring is not a pain in the ass (it's trivial) and I would be very surprised if normal shooters change one after 800 rounds. Maybe after 8,000. But then maybe I'm too sloppy with my spring. I'm sure others can chime in on when they change their spring.

scott

[Bravo-Four]

Originally posted by scottauld
Are you schizophrenic? You said only a few posts ago that two Kimbers in 10 mil are on your list of things to buy "when you get a few extra bucks". Now, you say (1) they're not on your list, and (2) the factory-recommended recoil spring replacement cycle for the Pro size Kimbers is "pathetic/terrible/sad"


S :beer:

A 10mm is a 10mm, and shouldn't be neglected. I said a good 1911 is not on my list of things to buy, a 45 one of course. I have H&K 45's and they are superb automatics, very. So of course, why would I bother spending my money on a wilson combat with plutonium-banana flavored guiderods, non-snag thermal detonater fiber optic sights and a 7rd mag? Sure, its nice, but I'll pass on it for now. Instead of pounding the sand, you should rather present some arguments on why it is infact better than some of the more modernized auto's that utilize the same cartridge but take it to the next level. Oh yeah, and good for you for being able to take apart your 1911 so fast, thats fast! And no paper clip? Someone give this man a cookie!

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
A 10mm is a 10mm, and shouldn't be neglected. I said a good 1911 is not on my list of things to buy, a 45 one of course. I have H&K 45's and they are superb automatics, very. So of course, why would I bother spending my money on a wilson combat with plutonium-banana flavored guiderods, non-snag thermal detonater fiber optic sights and a 7rd mag? Sure, its nice, but I'll pass on it for now. Instead of pounding the sand, you should rather present some arguments on why it is infact better than some of the more modernized auto's that utilize the same cartridge but take it to the next level. Oh yeah, and good for you for being able to take apart your 1911 so fast, thats fast! And no paper clip? Someone give this man a cookie!


Let me know how that works out for you.

Scott :beer:

[spcwes]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
A 10mm is a 10mm, and shouldn't be neglected. I said a good 1911 is not on my list of things to buy, a 45 one of course. I have H&K 45's and they are superb automatics, very. So of course, why would I bother spending my money on a wilson combat with plutonium-banana flavored guiderods, non-snag thermal detonater fiber optic sights and a 7rd mag? Sure, its nice, but I'll pass on it for now. Instead of pounding the sand, you should rather present some arguments on why it is infact better than some of the more modernized auto's that utilize the same cartridge but take it to the next level. Oh yeah, and good for you for being able to take apart your 1911 so fast, thats fast! And no paper clip? Someone give this man a cookie!

Bravo,
Not sure I can say if one is better than the other. Let's be clear, the reason you and I as well as you and many have butted heads in this thread really did not have anything to do with one being better than the other. It was your bashing one and the folks that carried it.

Now, that being said, the 1911 is good enough for those trained with it. Maybe that is better than trying to compare. Professional Soldiers, you know the highly trained ones appreciate the 1911 design and good majority of them that are not allowed to carry it would like to. Same with LE, when the SRT guys are carrying the 1911's kicking doors a good majority of the patrol officers are jealous as they want an option over the Glock 22 in most cases as well.

I think the Glock is one of the best designed pistols EVER made. I also think the 1911 is one of the best designed pistols EVER made. I like how much you can do with the 1911 as you mentioned. A lot of folks like the fact they own a 1911 and really do not care they have Glocks. I don't, glocks are glocks and that is it with me. I know their advangtages.

90% or higher of gun fights in the real world if I am not mistake end in less than 4 or 5 shots total, from both sides.

In the patrol divison I have long been a person that preaches we need more than just a 40SW and guess what even the 45ACP. I feel the officers that deal with folks around cars should be using a more powerful weapon with more penetration. Even though I love the 10mm round and feel it would be perfect for this endeavor the Glock 20 never crossed my mind.

When I attemped to get us Glock 21's (wanted anything but the 40SW) the thing that kicked the notion was officers with small hands could not handle the weapon with one hand, especially if they were sweating or it was raining out. The weapon was to large in their hands to keep a steady grip.

So since that is the only 10mm platform we could consider as a department the 20 was not even considered. I now am on a more realistic endeavor with the Glock 31 and 32 for patrol. It is in my opinion the next logical choice, a small step down if you will but in a frame that everyone can use.

Again, if you can actually see where we are coming from and how you were going at us then this thread should start to cool down. I had a 1911 loaded in the AC green as my second pistol ever purchased. It will be running about 50k rounds this year and I have never done anything to change anything on the gun. I am not carrying the weapon because we are still checking to see how long it will run without having issues.

Hope you can see better where we, or maybe just I am coming from. I also hope you can see why we took offense to your “what I carry is the best because I carry it” comments.

[10mm4ever]

Being a "neutral party", I'd like to close by saying that...
1). I dont agree with B4's original post and there is no one "universally best" handgun, or caliber.
2). This topic should never have been drug into this forum from the 10 ring. If everyone did that, every forum would be a war zone.

[gunman_23]

Originally posted by 10mm4ever
Who could argue with a man with your credentials Pat? Most impressive. :upeyes:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[SilverState]

It appears that BravoFour has re-thought his position on the Colt 1911 that he currently owns and/or the Springer that he sold.

It appears he now appreciates the 1911 and even plans to buy some 10mm 1911s when he gets some cash.

As for the comparison between a Glock 20 and a 1911 (which is not what this thread is about), capacity goes to Glock, trigger goes to 1911, ccw goes to 1911, Glock is easier to break down by a few seconds, no tools are required for either (only 1911s with full length guide rods), and fiberoptic sights are available for both.

As for problems people have had with Kimbers, no one should judge 1911s in general because of one manufacturer's failed experimentation with external extractors (contrary to John Browning's original 1911 design).

As for swapping out recoil springs on a 1911 every 800 rounds, I have yet to swap one out for maintenance reasons, but I have done it to match the high-velocity ammo I use (Wolf from Wilson Combat), same with my Glock 20 (Glockmeister captured).

BTW, I had an HK Tactical .45acp. I would take it to the range with my 1911s. My groups were not as tight with the HK. And, it was not easy to conceal. The HK is gone.

[sheepdog]

Ahem, pardon me. B-4-0 quoted me as saying
Someone insulted me earlier saying "ooh you plan on missing alot so you carry that many rounds."

I think by misquoting me that way, you are making my words, which are ACTUALLY-
Wow. 21 rounds. Bravo 4 must plan on missing a lot
sound childish and direct. They were neither. They were meant as wry and indirect humor. At your expense, yes. But a tiny expense. Please accept that as I accept you meant no real harm in your misquote of my words. As to stopping power or caliber vs. caliber discussions, I think that everything that has ever needed to be said has been said...repeatedly...at great waste of bandwidth and ink.
The only truth is physics, which makes it like the often-used and corny movie quote, "With great power comes great responsibility."
It should be, "With great power comes great recoil and muzzle rise."
Oh, I just kill me sometimes.

[epsylum]

I have 3 Glocks (a G21/21L, a G30, and a G17) and have a "doorstop" on layaway that I plan to carry on occasion. This will not be my first 1911 and I have shot many.

They are different plain and simple. IMO one is not necessarily better than the other. I can consistantly shoot 1911s more accurately. Not necissarly faster, but my targets look WAY better with a 1911 over Glock (even my custom G21L that I use for bowling pin matches). My brother (the Glock 20 owner/lover) never understood 1911s until he shot one. As he said, "there is just something about 1911s that makes them shoot really well" (he means the trigger ;) ).

Capacity does not worry me as much as concealability and shootability. It is all about shot placement after all and the 1911 has proven to me to put 'em right where I want 'em and printing gives away all the advantages of concealment basically putting a "take me out first" sign on your back.

I tend not to be a gun snob (okay other than the P7 is the only HK handgun I like ;) ) and have guns from many different manufacturers in many different styles.

[1991]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
http://f5.putfile.com/5/12501313382.jpg

Is that an urban digital-camo comforter?

[Gibbles]

Originally posted by 1991
Is that an urban digital-camo comforter?

:rofl: :rofl: :banana:

[10mm4ever]

Something else(besides the trigger)that I love about a full size gov't model,is the muzzle "heft". It's perfect, whereas most pistols feel far too light at the muzzle.

[Bravo-Four]

Originally posted by 1991
Is that an urban digital-camo comforter?

Since most of you are vietnam era, its actually the new version of the poncho liner, which was previously woodland camo.

Originally posted by SilverState
It appears that BravoFour has re-thought his position on the Colt 1911 that he currently owns and/or the Springer that he sold.


Actually, I have not rethought anything, nor do I take back anything I have said. Remember, you came into the 10-ring, and began posting anti-10 propaganda in a -10mm appreciation thread-. You should have expected to get your 1911 teased a little bit in there, as your postings shed no relevance on Photocops original posting, nor the commraderie one is expected to share in not just that section, but that thread. Good thing you started such an intelligent thread here, maybe more tragic cases of handguns being used as paperweights and doorstops will be prevented because of your good nature.

[spcwes]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
Since most of you are vietnam era, its actually the new version of the poncho liner, which was previously woodland camo.



Actually, I have not rethought anything, nor do I take back anything I have said. Remember, you came into the 10-ring, and began posting anti-10 propaganda in a -10mm appreciation thread-. You should have expected to get your 1911 teased a little bit in there, as your postings shed no relevance on Photocops original posting, nor the commraderie one is expected to share in not just that section, but that thread. Good thing you started such an intelligent thread here, maybe more tragic cases of handguns being used as paperweights and doorstops will be prevented because of your good nature.

And after I thought we had moved past the insults you come through like a champ once again. Vietnam era, propaganda. WOW, when you call out people on a internet board you can expect what just happened.

This fit right where it is bud, whether you like it or not. Teased, yea, you need to re-read what the majority of the posters had to say, and about you to top that.

Good day.

[Lifer]

I think it's time to let this thread wither of the vine.:stooges:

Lifer:harley:

[SilverState]

Originally posted by SilverState
It appears that BravoFour has re-thought his position on the Colt 1911 that he currently owns and/or the Springer that he sold.

It appears he now appreciates the 1911 and even plans to buy some 10mm 1911s when he gets some cash.

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
Actually, I have not rethought anything, nor do I take back anything I have said.

You sure about that?

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
Its a hugely successful weapon and comes in a million flavors and a million colors to tickle everyone's fancy. Alaskapopo brought up the fact earlier that some of the most elite LE/MIL continue to use 1911 formats to this day. That is most very true, for one of the simplest reasons: If it aint broke, dont fix it...the current 1911's do the job just fine...You say 45 is a time proven reliable manstopper. That is very true, it is...God knows when I get a few extra buck I'll be buying both of those 10mm kimbers. ;)

The word BIPOLAR comes to mind...

:crazy: :mallninja:

[happyguy]

Unbelievable :laughabove:

Regards,
Happyguy :)

[nemesis]

Seems to me the thread was started about him, to bash him, in a forum he quite likely doesn't usually read. He was then criticized for not answering in this thread. And just as many insults are being thrown at him as are coming from him. Neither side in this argument seems interested in capturing the moral high ground.

The first thing people should go through when they purchase a 1911 is a "chip on shoulder" class.

Now before any more diapers get wet, I love 1911s too but I'll be damned if I start crying about it if someone calls them names.

[SilverState]

Nemesis,

I know you are a 1911 guy that recently bought a Glock 20, recently started using 10mm Double Tap, and are probably somewhat excited about the new purchases.

Like you, I have a Glock 20 and shoot Double Tap out of it. In fact, I even shoot Double Tap out of my .45acp pistols and my other 10mm pistols (Delta Elite and Kimber 10).

But sometimes, you hear a mall ninja flapping gums about something that is sooo funny and ridiculous, that you have to share it with others. It just makes you laugh out loud and you can't keep it all to yourself. Such is the case with the statements posted hereinbefore.

:rofl:

[nemesis]

Originally posted by SilverState
Nemesis,

I know you are a 1911 guy that recently bought a Glock 20, recently started using 10mm Double Tap, and are probably somewhat excited about the new purchases.

Like you, I have a Glock 20 and shoot Double Tap out of it. In fact, I even shoot Double Tap out of my .45acp pistols and my other 10mm pistols (Delta Elite and Kimber 10).

But sometimes, you hear a mall ninja flapping gums about something that is sooo funny and ridiculous, that you have to share it with others. It just makes you laugh out loud and you can't keep it all to yourself. Such is the case with the statements posted hereinbefore.

:rofl:

Oh I'm a glock fan aswell, after trying several makes I've come full circle to Glock and 1911s. Either way the comments are neverending on both sides of the coin, and I'm happy that I realize the pros and cons of both and accept them for what they are and proudly take both of them to the range.

[Bravo-Four]

Originally posted by SilverState
Nemesis,

I know you are a 1911 guy that recently bought a Glock 20, recently started using 10mm Double Tap, and are probably somewhat excited about the new purchases.

Like you, I have a Glock 20 and shoot Double Tap out of it. In fact, I even shoot Double Tap out of my .45acp pistols and my other 10mm pistols (Delta Elite and Kimber 10).

But sometimes, you hear a mall ninja flapping gums about something that is sooo funny and ridiculous, that you have to share it with others. It just makes you laugh out loud and you can't keep it all to yourself. Such is the case with the statements posted hereinbefore.

:rofl:

If you are trying to provoke me, you can rest assured I have done quite more in the last 5 years of my life for this country than you will ever do in your tenure as a small claims court appointed attorney. Your mall ninja references are pretty funny, a sure sign the most action you have ever seen is in the trenches of the glocktalk battlefield. But hey, whatever floats your boat. You win the forumz and internet!!lol

[spcwes]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
If you are trying to provoke me, you can rest assured I have done quite more in the last 5 years of my life for this country than you will ever do in your tenure as a small claims court appointed attorney. Your mall ninja references are pretty funny, a sure sign the most action you have ever seen is in the trenches of the glocktalk battlefield. But hey, whatever floats your boat. You win the forumz and internet!!lol

Actually what is funny is the fact that you continue to banter on like you are Rambo or something. Like you are God's gift to what ever Military you claim to be a part of. I see that you have 11b in your profile. That means you (claim) you are an infantry soldier. Being an infantry soldier does not make you special in here, if indeed you are. It also makes you no more a gun guy than the next person. Trust me I have done stuff for my country as well, so don't pull that BS insult on me because I have done it a few more years than you.

Read this and please comprehend, no one on this board told you the 10mm was any less of a round than a 45ACP. You just assumed that because folks liked 1911 style weapons that was a give in. No one stated the 1911 was any better or any worse than a Glock 20, you did and insulted the vast majority of the people involved with the thread. And then when these folks showed you facts, logic and even attempted to be nice to you. Yet you keep on, even after it stopped and then you get people more upset because of your "mine is better because I use it" crap.

That is a very quick way to get labeled as a mall ninja. The way you stir the pot is also a way to get labeled a troll. You talk about us being on the forums and having no experience and as you put it you have done more for your country, you don't know who you are talking to. Making blind assumptions on the net is retarded. You stating crap like that and it sounds as if you are trying to prove something to a bunch of people you don’t know. How did you put it, internet tough guy, yea that’s it.

NEWS FLASH, we don't care but what ever makes you feel good in the morning.

[Bravo-Four]

That post was in response to the grand chancellors post and him alone. Quit acting like Im boasting anything I have done, because -you- are the one hugging on my nuts and keep bringing any of it up. I never claimed to be special, -you- declared me to be, you also keep putting alot of words in my mouth with stuff like "mine is better because I use it" which I never said/implied. Any time I have insulted someone in this thread is in direct response to an insult given to me first. And not knowing about people? You sure are doing alot of that to me and get away with it. You claim to be some two-bit Barney fife from Podunk, MS but you don't see me giving two *****s about you, because well...I dont!

"Actually what is funny is the fact that you continue to banter on like you are Rambo or something. Like you are God's gift to what ever Military you claim to be a part of"

You are the only one carrying on with any of that, acting like im bragging or something. If im insulted on here, Its within my rights to retort to it. So seriously, go get some rope and choke yourself. :animlol:

[SilverState]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
If you are trying to provoke me, you can rest assured I have done quite more in the last 5 years of my life for this country than you will ever do in your tenure as a small claims court appointed attorney. Your mall ninja references are pretty funny, a sure sign the most action you have ever seen is in the trenches of the glocktalk battlefield. But hey, whatever floats your boat. You win the forumz and internet!!lol

No, I was communicating with another member. For the last five years, I have been putting serious criminals in prison (murderers, rapists, child molestors, assailants of the elderly, gang members, would-be cop killers, child abusers, etc. etc.). I have never been in a small claims court and have never been appointed to represent anyone. You posted the mall ninja smilie in one of your threads (I can quote it from you if you need me to). Yes, your comments funny. There is nothing to win.

You don't seem to understand that appreciating the 10mm cartridge and appreciating the 1911 are not mutually exclusive.

:deadhorse:

[Bravo-Four]

Well, when you point the mall ninja insults at the wrong folks, expect to get a reply to it right? SPCwes seems to think its ok to insult me on here as long as I don't say anything back. I really don't see the point in your thread anymore, other than a stomping grounds for the bored, so yeah, I'll throw down the dead horse card as well.

[Gibbles]

I really try and stay out of these pissing contests but I must say Bravo-Four, and I'm not saying you are but you sure come off as an asshat and a troll.

Again I’m not saying you are but I am saying you come off as one, And for some reason when people start crap like this It just seems that they have something to prove for some reason.

http://www.mega.bz/rotfl/images/argue091204.jpg

[SIGShooter]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
A 10mm is a 10mm, and shouldn't be neglected. I said a good 1911 is not on my list of things to buy, a 45 one of course. I have H&K 45's and they are superb automatics, very. So of course, why would I bother spending my money on a wilson combat with plutonium-banana flavored guiderods, non-snag thermal detonater fiber optic sights and a 7rd mag? Sure, its nice, but I'll pass on it for now. Instead of pounding the sand, you should rather present some arguments on why it is infact better than some of the more modernized auto's that utilize the same cartridge but take it to the next level. Oh yeah, and good for you for being able to take apart your 1911 so fast, thats fast! And no paper clip? Someone give this man a cookie!




I own a Wilson and it doesn't have any of that stuff on it. Where do you get those things at? You have your likes and many others have theirs. I just find it amusing that you have gotten so defensive about someone posting what you said and then they commented on it. By the way you're in Oregon? Are you reserve? I don't remember Oregon having an airborne unit there. Of course, I could be wrong about that, it's been a while since I've been in. Are they now issuing the "Sniper" tab? Or did you just pick that up? Congrats on the fast promotions! You must be a fast tracker. E6 in 5 years? (11B3P) Stellar! What's the B4 for?

[Bravo-Four]

Oregon is where I was born. Once awarded your P identifier you don't lose it. Its a permanent qual identifier. Some people choose to rot as an E4/E5 for their entire career I have no idea why, I fully understand the requirements of promotion and make it happen as fast as the system allows. B4 is additional skill identifier ie pathfinder F7, sniper B4, dragon gunner C2 etc. No, you don't wear a tab but on the old unfiforms, some used to put it under the left pocket flap to identify with with other B4's.

And when I said all those features on the wilson combat, its simply just a joke about the pricing they escalate to. A kimber in a nutshell has all the same parts and is the same basic 1911 design. but a -much- lesser price. I could have a -killer- M14 for what one of those cost, but hey, to each his own.

[SilverState]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
And when I said all those features on the wilson combat, its simply just a joke about the pricing they escalate to. A kimber in a nutshell has all the same parts and is the same basic 1911 design. but a -much- lesser price.

It appears that part of the problem here is that you know very little about 1911s. Not trying to insult you, just an observation. I know very little about living in Europe, because I have never been there. Your average Kimber and your average Wilson Combat are not the same. It is like saying a house in Watts is the same as a house in Beverly Hills simply because the floorplan and square footage is the same. It is like saying that a Hyundai is the same as a BMW simply because they can both get you from point A to point B. They are not the same and their prices reflect that. Granted some Kimbers are better than others, and I am not saying that owning a Kimber is like having a house in Watts. In fact, I own a Kimber 10mm. But I understand that it is no Wilson Combat.

If you know someone who has a Wilson Combat 1911, try it sometime. You might surprise yourself. I bought mine used from a forum member and saved a lot of money.

http://sincitypitbulls.freeservers.com/WilsonCombatCQBwRail.JPG

[Bravo-Four]

Then I suppose I am wrong in my suggestion of a Wilson combat being a type of 1911? You are probably getting into too much detail as to their differences. They are both .45acp 7-8 shot semi-auto's with a grip safety, safety lock, barrel bushing, etc. Basically, they are both 1911's but one has a higher quality due to craftsmanship, part quality, and namesake. I do have to ask, at 25 meters is there a difference between the two? I'd bet my money its operator dependant.

[spcwes]

No, what you are wrong about is opening your mouth up and inserting your entire rear. What you have done is STARTED slinging insults to senior board members as to the choice of a particular weapon system. You then boasted the Glock 20 as your superior alternative and something in regards to us old timers this and that.

Every time someone calls you out you go back to the insults, which I might add you can't even get right. MS, what state is that? Oh, yea, that is Mississippi, not Missouri. Sorry you must have been talking to some other person or you are a retard.

Now, that you are getting belted for your comments you are playing a game of, not me, but you. Who cares, go crawl under your rock big guy.

Either way keep back peddling, you are getting better and better. :upeyes: :rofl:

[Gibbles]

:popcorn:

[spcwes]

:uglylol: :popcorn: Thanks Gib, some damn fine popcorn. I am just going to add a bit of two-bit Barney fife....oh yea thats the stuff....:supergrin:

[SIGShooter]

You really need to stick to what you believe. Quit changing up your statements. That's all I have to say. If you think a 1911 is a great gun it's okay to think that. Don't be scared. (It's not a sin to like another gun.) I gotta agree on the back pedalling... You say you like them then you don't then you do and now...well I don't know what.


Where are you stationed at? When did you go to school?




EDITED TO ADD: Silverstate, I love the two tone! I am seriously considering all grey though for the CQB.

[Bravo-Four]

While the 1911 remains a good choice among the lineup of todays current semi-auto service firearms, there are several alternatives that perform better, measure it as you wish. I advocate that a firearm with a higher capacity that has better ballistic qualities should not be overlooked simply because its unpopular among the in-crowds favorite gun. We are talking sidearms.

SIGShooter, you seemed to be concerned about the validity of my profile, PM me.

Anyways, last post on this dead horse. It's doing nothing for anyone but providing some peanut gallery entertainment. Silverstate, I would however like to personally speak to you about kimber/wilson.

[Jerseycitysteve]

Does the Army have an active installation in Oregon?

[RM]

What is wrong with being an infantrymen?

I also think they are very special in today's military. We have less infantry squads than we have multi-million dollar fighter planes. There are less infantry than there are lawyers or postman in this country.

[1991]

B4, is Vini your cousin from the Bronx and what are you telling him you saw and conquered in your title line?

If you want to quote Julius Caesar, the Latin words are "veni vidi vici."

[SilverState]

Originally posted by SIGShooter
Silverstate, I love the two tone! I am seriously considering all grey though for the CQB.

Thanks. I just bought the most inexpensive CQB I could find, and it happened to be that color. But all the finishes are nice.

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
Silverstate, I would however like to personally speak to you about kimber/wilson.

Since I don't get to Oregon very often (if at all), pm me. Alternatively, if you just read the threads in the 1911 section of this board, you will learn from other people's experiences with Kimbers and/or Wilson Combats.

[sigdeputy]

http://www.reliabledrywallinc.com/img/pullinghair.jpg

Getting to the end of this thread is like awaking from a bad nightmare. I'm just glad it's over...

[bakjr]

Wow.... I'm surprised this one has lasted so long.

I'm really surprised we haven't seen any of these .....


http://mysite.verizon.net/reso3b4u/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/kimberdoorstop.jpg

And not to be biased.. here's my G20 as well.

http://mysite.verizon.net/reso3b4u/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/glock20doorstop.jpg




:tongueout:

[SIGShooter]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
While the 1911 remains a good choice among the lineup of todays current semi-auto service firearms, there are several alternatives that perform better, measure it as you wish. I advocate that a firearm with a higher capacity that has better ballistic qualities should not be overlooked simply because its unpopular among the in-crowds favorite gun. We are talking sidearms.

SIGShooter, you seemed to be concerned about the validity of my profile, PM me.

Anyways, last post on this dead horse. It's doing nothing for anyone but providing some peanut gallery entertainment. Silverstate, I would however like to personally speak to you about kimber/wilson.




No, definitely not concerned about the validity of your profile. You say who you say you are. I was just wondering were you are stationed at. I'm prior Army myself. Went to a few schools. 11B/89D It was just curiosity. You should definitely buy a Wilson. (They don't have any in 10MM but .45 will do just as well :tongueout: )

[spcwes]

Originally posted by SIGShooter
No, definitely not concerned about the validity of your profile. You say who you say you are. I was just wondering were you are stationed at. I'm prior Army myself. Went to a few schools. 11B/89D It was just curiosity. You should definitely buy a Wilson. (They don't have any in 10MM but .45 will do just as well :tongueout: )

Actully something that has excited me very much is they have started building the CQB in 10mm with special made wilson mags. There were a few on gunsamerica.com but since new format it sucks.

I would really like to hear about that as soon as someone gets it.

[10mm4ever]

I think the Springfield Operator(full rail) with a bull barrel would be it!;)

[SIGShooter]

Originally posted by spcwes
Actully something that has excited me very much is they have started building the CQB in 10mm with special made wilson mags. There were a few on gunsamerica.com but since new format it sucks.

I would really like to hear about that as soon as someone gets it.




When did this start? Has the website been updated with this info? I betcha it's going to run more then the Elite.

[spcwes]

Originally posted by SIGShooter
When did this start? Has the website been updated with this info? I betcha it's going to run more then the Elite.

No, not to my knowledge. As soon as I found more than one dealer online selling them I jumped on and could not find them. May just be a special run but hey, it is a factory built CQB in 10mm!

[HammerBite]

Heh, how many rounds does it hold again, 7? Whether it is a Colt 1911, or a Wilson Combat, they are all the same thing over and over really. When compared to a G20, I don't see how it wins in any facet. But that is of course, my opinion, and I will try to see yours. Truth be told, my G20 is currently holding 21 rounds of DT 180gr Gold Dot. Sorry if Im a little blind, but having 3 times the capacity with a superior cartridge sounds like what im looking for, that along with no external safeties to fumble with seems like a more modernized high tech Slug-Caster.
He said that the G20 was more to his liking than a 1911. What is wrong with that?
Anyways, 1911's arent entirely that bad. For instance I have this door in my house that keeps closing, so I jam the 1911 in the hinge and it stays open. I doubt I could fit my glock in the door like that. Thanks Colt!
That made me laugh loud enough that the dogs came in to see what my problem was. Don't you guys understand humor?

It didn't take much to stir everyone up.

This thread has shown me that Kool-Aid comes in more than one flavor.

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by HammerBite
He said that the G20 was more to his liking than a 1911. What is wrong with that?

That made me laugh loud enough that the dogs came in to see what my problem was. Don't you guys understand humor?

It didn't take much to stir everyone up.

This thread has shown me that Kool-Aid comes in more than one flavor.

Its not that he prefers the Glock 20 rather the way he expresses himself. Anyone who has ever carried a gun knows that full size Glocks in 10mm and 45 (21 and 20) are very hard to conceal. In fact the represent the upper size limit of an openly carried police or military sidearm with standard mags. I would like to see his magazines. A 20 round 10mm mag is going to be close to 170 mm long not an easy concealment proposition. I doubt he has ever carried a gun at all. Rather he sounds like some kid who likes to play video games and looked up some guns in some gun mags.

He sounds like a total man ninja. The 1911 is the king of combat pistols. Its the preferred sidearm of most US military special teams and most LEO SWAT teams who have the option of carring what they would like. The 10mm is pretty much nonexistant in the leo amd military world. It only exists as a handgun hunting round and it remains popular with mall ninja's apparently.
Pat

[spcwes]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
Its not that he prefers the Glock 20 rather the way he expresses himself. Anyone who has ever carried a gun knows that full size Glocks in 10mm and 45 (21 and 20) are very hard to conceal. In fact the represent the upper size limit of an openly carried police or military sidearm with standard mags. I would like to see his magazines. A 20 round 10mm mag is going to be close to 170 mm long not an easy concealment proposition. I doubt he has ever carried a gun at all. Rather he sounds like some kid who likes to play video games and looked up some guns in some gun mags.

He sounds like a total man ninja. The 1911 is the king of combat pistols. Its the preferred sidearm of most US military special teams and most LEO SWAT teams who have the option of carring what they would like. The 10mm is pretty much nonexistant in the leo amd military world. It only exists as a handgun hunting round and it remains popular with mall ninja's apparently.
Pat

What Pat said about B4, now I like the 10mm a bit more than he seems to though, even if I wear a White Ninja suit insted of a black one when I go to the mall.

:animlol:

[SilverState]

I am tired of my pistol ammo going under 2000fps. And forget about 21 rounds, I am talking 100 rounds. Here's what I plan on getting; it will be my new CCW pocket pistol:

http://home.comcast.net/~tdmccallie/Uzi/ARPistol_Beta_EOTech.JPG

:mallninja:

[epsylum]

Originally posted by SilverState
I am tired of my pistol ammo going under 2000fps. And forget about 21 rounds, I am talking 100 rounds. Here's what I plan on getting; it will be my new CCW pocket pistol:

http://home.comcast.net/~tdmccallie/Uzi/ARPistol_Beta_EOTech.JPG

:mallninja:

If it ain't belt-fed, it ain't worth carrying. :supergrin:

[spcwes]

Originally posted by epsylum
If it ain't belt-fed, it ain't worth carrying. :supergrin:

Especially carrying concealed!!!:thumbsup:

[nemesis]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo

He sounds like a total man ninja. The 1911 is the king of combat pistols. Its the preferred sidearm of most US military special teams and most LEO SWAT teams who have the option of carring what they would like.
Pat

Pat, lets come down back to earth here.....

[jbremount]

Quote"The 1911 is the king of combat pistols. Its the preferred sidearm of most US military special teams and most LEO SWAT teams who have the option of carring what they would like. The 10mm is pretty much nonexistant in the leo amd military world."


I think the above statement says it all.

[Gasoil4ever]

B4 :

And its still : vEni vidi vici, and NOT vIni vidi vici

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veni,_vidi,_vici :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[10mm4ever]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
Its not that he prefers the Glock 20 rather the way he expresses himself. Anyone who has ever carried a gun knows that full size Glocks in 10mm and 45 (21 and 20) are very hard to conceal. In fact the represent the upper size limit of an openly carried police or military sidearm with standard mags. I would like to see his magazines. A 20 round 10mm mag is going to be close to 170 mm long not an easy concealment proposition. I doubt he has ever carried a gun at all. Rather he sounds like some kid who likes to play video games and looked up some guns in some gun mags.

He sounds like a total man ninja. The 1911 is the king of combat pistols. Its the preferred sidearm of most US military special teams and most LEO SWAT teams who have the option of carring what they would like. The 10mm is pretty much nonexistant in the leo amd military world. It only exists as a handgun hunting round and it remains popular with mall ninja's apparently.
Pat Did you change your profile recently?? On your profile, didnt you list under "hobbies", that YOU enjoyed video games and practicing martial arts??? Strange that you would make fun of someone whom has so much in common with yourself??? So, by your own definition, YOU'RE a mall ninja! Better get yourself a 10mm, mall ninja.:rofl: You're a hoot! So which color do you prefer for your ninja suit when your practicing "martial arts", black or white???:rofl:

[nemesis]

Originally posted by jbremount
Quote"The 1911 is the king of combat pistols. Its the preferred sidearm of most US military special teams and most LEO SWAT teams who have the option of carring what they would like. The 10mm is pretty much nonexistant in the leo amd military world."


I think the above statement says it all.

Too bad the first two statements aren't true. 1911s do and have served this country well but the fact remains that most SWAT teams don't carry them nor do military "special forces."

[Bravo-Four]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
Its not that he prefers the Glock 20 rather the way he expresses himself. Anyone who has ever carried a gun knows that full size Glocks in 10mm and 45 (21 and 20) are very hard to conceal. In fact the represent the upper size limit of an openly carried police or military sidearm with standard mags. I would like to see his magazines. A 20 round 10mm mag is going to be close to 170 mm long not an easy concealment proposition. I doubt he has ever carried a gun at all. Rather he sounds like some kid who likes to play video games and looked up some guns in some gun mags.

He sounds like a total man ninja. The 1911 is the king of combat pistols. Its the preferred sidearm of most US military special teams and most LEO SWAT teams who have the option of carring what they would like. The 10mm is pretty much nonexistant in the leo amd military world. It only exists as a handgun hunting round and it remains popular with mall ninja's apparently.
Pat

Pat, you have once again proven yourself to be a tool. You are the king of the trolls in the caliber corner, dispensing your neverending biased wisdom to the newbies that go in there looking for godhonest advice. You complain about the 10mm for the sake of complaining, citing any bad reason about it you can. While you may be a noodled armed choir boy, for some of us, the G20-21 platform fits our mitts quite well. No pat, Im far from a mall ninja, just a person that can do some simple math and come to the conclusion the G20 has -alot- of advantages over alot of competing handguns. When I -do- conceal I use a G29 w/milt sparks SS2. You sound retarded for even suggesting I would conceal a g20. Next time im in alaska and im looking for a good donut shop I'll check with you first, assclown

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by Bravo-Four
Pat, you have once again proven yourself to be a tool. You are the king of the trolls in the caliber corner, dispensing your neverending biased wisdom to the newbies that go in there looking for godhonest advice. You complain about the 10mm for the sake of complaining, citing any bad reason about it you can. While you may be a noodled armed choir boy, for some of us, the G20-21 platform fits our mitts quite well. No pat, Im far from a mall ninja, just a person that can do some simple math and come to the conclusion the G20 has -alot- of advantages over alot of competing handguns. When I -do- conceal I use a G29 w/milt sparks SS2. You sound retarded for even suggesting I would conceal a g20. Next time im in alaska and im looking for a good donut shop I'll check with you first, assclown

Such a wonderfull intellectual vocabulary you have there like Assclown, and tool. No wonder people take you so seriously. Also your posts on this fourm defind the behavior of a troll.

As for my stance on the 10mm, unlike you I tried it and carried it as a duty gun for a while so my decisions and opinions are based on real experience not on the lastest back issue of Handguns magazine.

Anyway I don't feel like wasting anymore time reading your posts. So welcome to my ignore list. Now you can join the ranks of such winners like Nemisis, JP, and 10mmforever.
:wavey:

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by jbremount
Quote"The 1911 is the king of combat pistols. Its the preferred sidearm of most US military special teams and most LEO SWAT teams who have the option of carring what they would like. The 10mm is pretty much nonexistant in the leo amd military world."


I think the above statement says it all.

Yep it does despite false claims to the opposite. Such groups like Force Recon, FBI's HRT and LAPD SWAT to name a few love their custom 1911's.
Pat

[Bravo-Four]

95% of my posts here are either informative or inquisitive. When idiots like to talk crap you can guarantee im going to reply to it, and not hide from it by blocking them like some school yard sissy. Yeah, unlike you I never tried the 10mm as a duty weapon. But im also not a cop. My duty weapon isn't a pistol, its a rifle. Use what you gotta use pat, but if my duty weapon was a pistol you can bet your last dollar I would use something that packs a mean punch on even body armor equipped felons.

[nemesis]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
Yep it does despite false claims to the opposite. Such groups like Force Recon, FBI's HRT and LAPD SWAT to name a few love their custom 1911's.
Pat

Pat two weeks ago you denounced the FBI claiming they were essentially worthless, a bunch of lawyers, accountants etc etc.... You've also repeatedly claimed you'd never weigh what they say heavily in terms of shooting. Now you embrace them? That's some impressive hypocrisy there my friend.

Either way, yes you have a FEW elite groups that use them, more power to them as they serve them well I'm sure. For the money they spend on them they should. However, the fact remains that a VAST majority of SWAT teams use something else in the nation along with specialty groups in the military. Unless of course you can provide some sort of documentation otherwise...... here's where the conversation will go silent.....always does.

[J.P.]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
Anyway I don't feel like wasting anymore time reading your posts. So welcome to my ignore list. Now you can join the ranks of such winners like Nemisis, JP, and 10mmforever.
:wavey:

So am I back on the "ignore" list?
First I was "off"
Then I was "on"
Then I was "off" again.

Now I'm apparently back "on"?
:shocked:

I'm confused,Pat.

[MOHAA Player]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
Yea he probably gets all his knowledge from gun magazines.
Pat Yea or even from forum members on Tactical forums:thumbsup:

[MOHAA Player]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
Yep it does despite false claims to the opposite. Such groups like Force Recon, FBI's HRT and LAPD SWAT to name a few love their custom 1911's.
Pat Pat you now mention the F.B.I as a source to reference,but last week you said that the F.B.I
is only good for cacthing white collar BG's,and no nothing about gun fights.
MOHAA

[SilverState]

Originally posted by MOHAA Player
Pat you now mention the F.B.I as a source to reference,but last week you said that the F.B.I
is only good for cacthing white collar BG's,and no nothing about gun fights.
MOHAA

The feds do do a lot more white collar crime than the states. Even my federal prosecutor friends would agree with that. The district attorneys handle what most people think of when they think of crime.

However, the feds can sometimes get more time on firearms cases and would have juridiction on cases involving crimes done between states, etc.

[happyguy]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
Yep it does despite false claims to the opposite. Such groups like Force Recon, FBI's HRT and LAPD SWAT to name a few love their custom 1911's.
Pat

Is that what they told you when you had them over for tea? Or is that what you read in the latest issue of "Combat Handguns"?

Regards,
Happyguy :)

[happyguy]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo

The 1911 is the king of combat pistols.
Pat

Pat, you're gushing. It's probably in the top two or three anyhow.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

[MOHAA Player]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
Yep it does despite false claims to the opposite. Such groups like Force Recon, FBI's HRT and LAPD SWAT to name a few love their custom 1911's.
Pat And they all told you this when?

[J.P.]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
The 1911 is the king of combat pistols.

Heck yeah!
Lower capacity,more recoil, and increased cost.
That's everything I look for in a "combat" pistol.
:supergrin:</