semi -or- pump for HD?

[Rxzruby]

read lots of threads and have experience with both.
in your opions what is best suited for HD OR SHTF situations?
i have read that semis are unreliable and can jamb, on the flip side pumps take time and effort.
i currently have a remi 1100 and a moss pump both are set-up for hunting birds.
i would buy/build from a new platform.

thanks for the help,
Rxzruby
:thumbsup:

[eddief4]

that's a good question, i have always thought of a pump, but now a semi makes since.

:popcorn:

[Rxzruby]

it is a good question because unlike hand guns (wheelies vs. autos) they are the same.

several years ago i read several articles on the remington 1100 being used with success in vietnam. i dont what they use currently, never read a consistant article because they all say something different.




THREAD JACKING MY OWN THREAD:

anybody shoot with the knoxx SpecOps stock? the one with the recoil reduction springs??? i did not want one of those adjustable stocks as they look too tactical cool but if this recoil reduction actually works then why wouldnt i want one!

Rxzruby

[cougar_guy04]

Originally posted by Rxzruby
it is a good question because unlike hand guns (wheelies vs. autos) they are the same.

several years ago i read several articles on the remington 1100 being used with success in vietnam. i dont what they use currently, never read a consistant article because they all say something different.
If by they you mean the armed force, I think the Mossberg 590 and/or a semi-auto Benelli are currently being used. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that's how it is (think I read an article about the Marines adopting the semi-auto Benelli).

[WellArmedSheep]

I think the main reason alot of people use a pump for HD is because of reliability. If your auto will work 100% reliably with the load you feel most comfortable with then by all means go for it.

[loandr.]

yes I shhot with the Knoxx... and it makes the 12's feel like 20's, one just must get just to postioning and to no catch "the Pinch" :-)
If it werent an AK Id vote PUMP.....But my Saiga12 has proven to I pump reliable and semi sppeds. Just my .02 . Thanks

LD

[loandr.]

Here's he area you need to stay clear of. And with a close up it becomes obvious as to why. Does wonders for crcking Walnut, although you do void the warranty. :-)

[loandr.]

Saiga-12 w/ Tromix Conversion for I, HD wise.

[loandr.]

Opens effortlessly. Folder is EZ on the Shoulder and LIGHT as can be,making her fast handling. Enjoy.

LD

[ElevatedThreat]

I always relied on my Remington 870P as my HD shotgun, due to reliability concerns about a semi-auto (purely theoretical concerns that is, since I had owned no semis).

Then I bought a Remington 11-87 POLICE. The recoil is less, the speed is the same with no chance to short-stroke the pump under pressure, and the reliability with buckshot and slugs is 100%.

So now that I have worked with both, I would call it a matter of preference, and I now lean towards the semi-auto.

My personal advice would be to skip fancy stocks and just use the conventional wood or synthetic stock that comes on the gun. They are not needed and are more complication than they are worth. Ditto for grips, slings, lights, side-saddles, etc. Having played with all of these, the tacticool novelty has long worn off, and I am left with the conviction that simpler is better.

The only two accessories that I do recommend are ghost-ring night-sights, and a one or two shot mag extension.

-ET

[Rxzruby]

ANYBODY ELSES THOUGHTS?

[jeb_ingram]

I own the Remington 1100 tactical with the 18" barrel. Right now it’s the 1100 and the G37 but I plan on owning an 870.

The racking of the slide on a pump can be a big deterrent but as stated before, it takes time. The sound of a semi auto can be as effective and it only takes a little less time. A pump usually requires both hands to operate and keep on target while a semi can be shot until its empty with one hand. The pumps don’t care what rounds you feed them while my 1100 wont eat reduced recoil rounds. (I'm not sure what semi autos will reliably feed the reduced rounds) The semi autos need to be cleaned more often to remain reliable while a pump can be filthy and still shoot and cycle rounds. I plan on owning an 870 very soon. They both have their place you just need to find which one fits you.

Just my 2˘

[MrMurphy]

For shotguns I'm pretty much a pump guy.

I'd make an exception in the Saiga's case as it's near impossible to screw up the Kalashnikov action.

OTher than sights and a sling, and a weaponlight you don't need much. If you're not recoil tolerant, the Knoxx stock does wonders, me personally, haven't shot one yet but I don't have any real trouble with 12ga recoil unless it's over 100 rounds at a time.

[stmcelroy]

I too always had 870 pumps, mainly because of cost, but have recently upgraded to a police trade-in 11-87 Police.

All I can say is WOW, i really love this gun. It digests my self defense loads without a hiccup and the recoil is very manageable.

Firing off 7 rounds of Federal Tactical 00 Buck rapid firing is really a religious experience.:supergrin:

Steve

[byf43]

The all-time ‘classic’ questions:

Paper or plastic?
Revolver or semi-auto?
Pump or semi-auto?


Here are my choices -
An 870 that I set-up for my daughter, for her HD (complete w/Knoxx SpecOps and Limbsaver recoil pad):
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/byf43/Shotgun%20pics/Erins8701.jpg


My Remington 1100 Competition Master ‘clone’:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/byf43/Shotgun%20pics/1100CMCloneII.jpg

My 870 Wingmaster ‘Police’ (built in 1980):
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/byf43/Shotgun%20pics/Rem870Wingmaster-rightsmall.jpg


Each of them are capable of doing HD duties.
Each of them are 100% reliable.

Which is best?
I suppose that question should go to the top of the page and join the other ‘classic’ questions.

[Glockman1000]

Semi Auto for me

My Benelli M4 Tactical (11707)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Long%20guns/100_7603.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Long%20guns/Copyof100_7604.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Long%20guns/M4S90.jpg

not that I don't like my pumps because I do but I love my M4.

It’s smooth, controllable, rugged, feeds everything I have put through it from light shot to max DRAM buckshot loads with zero problems and can effortlessly cycle through 9 shells faster than I can pull the trigger let alone pump a shotgun.

Originally posted by cougar_guy04
If by they you mean the armed force, I think the Mossberg 590 and/or a semi-auto Benelli are currently being used. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that's how it is (think I read an article about the Marines adopting the semi-auto Benelli).

The Benelli M4 (designated the M1014 by the US military) has been adopted as the JSCS (Joint Service Combat Shotgun) and is supposed to eventually replace all other shotguns in currently in service. Before the M1014 there was no official standard shotgun in service and several types and brands were randomly used (870’s, 500, 590A1’s and a few others).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelli_M4_Super_90

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_shotgun_jscs.php

[sniper350]

The choice is simple :upeyes: What is it that strikes fear in the hearts of men......

The SOUND of a 12Ga. shotgun being racked :banana:

Not the same sound using the mambee-pambee semi-auto

:rofl:


JF.

[Ian]

What about the Benelli M3 Convertible?
This seems a very good failsafe idea.
If it won't load in auto, then just pump it.
Has anyone shot one of these?

[Carver]

KISS..

Pump is most reliable (by platform and mechanics) if the user is not a short stroker...
if he is, then Semi would be more reliable for him..

I turn to a remmy 870 100% confidence, never an issue... the same gun

[M2 Carbine]

Originally posted by Rxzruby

several years ago i read several articles on the remington 1100 being used with success in vietnam.

By choice REDDAWN carried a 12ga pump or M79 grenade launcher in Vietman. He said he never liked the M16.


Many years ago I owned a couple Remington 1100 and a 870. The 1100 wasn't as reliable and just didn't fit me, so I sold them. The 870 is still going strong.

Recently I reduced the size of the 870 to make it a little handier around the place.:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Rem870pistolgrip.jpg

[M2 Carbine]

Originally posted by sniper350
The choice is simple :upeyes: What is it that strikes fear in the hearts of men......

The SOUND of a 12Ga. shotgun being racked :banana:

Not the same sound using the mambee-pambee semi-auto

:rofl:


JF.

I've never agreed with the idea of letting the BG know your position, if you can help it.

Racking the slide tells him three things that you don't want him to know,
where you are and what you are armed with and that he should shoot you immediately upon seeing you.
It the gun sound doesn't scare him/them away, you have just put yourself in a hell of a situation.


This was brought home to me the other night.
I woke up thinking I heard a noise. Immediately I thought ****, the shotgun was about 5 feet from the bed WITHOUT a shell in the chamber.
If there is actually someone in the house my only choice is to give them way more information than I want them to have, or wait until the last minute when the SHTF and hope I have time to chamber a shell and get a shot off.

From now on the shotguns will have chambered shells.

[sniper350]

M2 Carbine ......I take your point ....except for one small disagreement

Your are not in a war on the battlefield.

How many thieves do you think would want to take on a man with a 12 ga. shotgun on his own turf ?? The thief will most likely be out gunned -- armed with only a handgun, if that ?? He is there to grab some quick loot .......and run --- not to carry on a tactical battle with a homeowner. He knows there are plenty of un armed homeowners around, easier to just run to the next neighborhood.

Working on a SWAT team for many years, I know I hated to enter a home after a BG on his turf ....even though I knew we had him out gunned. Very dangerous indeed.

Whenever possible, you want to avoid a confrontation ....... and scare the intruder away......... rather than using stealth and trapping him in your home were a gun battle is more likely. Remember, he only has to get lucky ONE TIME and its all over for your family.

No, I don't know any thieves that I have met that would willingly hang around to try and confront an angry homeowner armed with the very deadly 12 ga. Shotgun.

JF.

[M2 Carbine]

I agree that for the most part criminals are cowards and will usually avoid a fight but I'm still not willing to give up ANY advantage that I might have, like telling them where I am and what I'm armed with.

If there is a armed man/men in your house, you are most certainally in a armed conflict, and you and yours are possibly in grave danger.

Maybe ten years ago I might agree that the sound of a 12ga pump chambering a shell might make all but the bravest criminal run, but now days I'm not about to stake my life on it.

Like you said, "Remember, he only has to get lucky ONE TIME and its all over for your family."
Personally I don't want to give him/them any chance to get lucky, if I can help it.
The first time I want him to know I have a shotgun and where I am is when he sees the muzzle blast.;)

[fredj338]

It's really personal pref. The semi costs more & can jam due to ammo, dirt or the bolt rubbing/catch on something during firing. Recoil is light though & follow up shots faster. The pump is cheaper, a bit more rugged w/ fewer moving parts but recoils a bit more w/ heavy loads. Go with whichever you like & practice, practice.

[AWMP]

Benelli M4, I have shot hundreds of bird shot with no problems, it has shot everything from bird shot, slugs and OO buck with zero problems.
All I need is surefire to make a forearm like they do for remington 870s and it will be perfect.
I have an 870 as well and never had a problem with it either. So the choice is mainly one of the pocket book, both shoot great, just practice and see what you like.
I will tell you this, I have shot 75 rounds out of my M4 and ready to shoot more, the 870 has just a little more kick to it, but again personal preference.

[Lowrider 49]

A 20ga 870 will kill em just as dead if recoil is an issue and they are lighter and quicker on target. A youth model 870 in 20ga with a 21" barrel and a 2 shot mag extendsion makes a real slick and cheap anti-personnel shotgun.

Most folks feel comfortable with a 230 gr .45 ACP slug at 900 fps, but scoff at a 20 ga for defense. The 20ga throws a 350 gr slug at 1500 FPS. I think I'd rather take a soft tissue hit with a .45 than with the 20ga soft lead slug!! Anyone who has shot deer with them knows what I mean.

BTW, I carried an 870 a few times in SEA and I always was able to empty the gun real well...it was keeping it loaded I had a problem with most of the time.

[brentwal]

Sorta 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

Pumps are cheaper to buy and generaly more reliable.
Semi's can make follow up shots faster as a rule and can't be short stroked.

[AggieAK]

I'd say the AK type shotty, or anything benelli (mostly the m4 for HD) is great, my 28" 11-87 has too much metal too far forward.(i am looking at getting a 21" bbl for it.) just my 2 cents, but if you have the money, go with the benelli, is greatness.

[JohnJak]

Originally posted by sniper350
The choice is simple :upeyes: What is it that strikes fear in the hearts of men......

The SOUND of a 12Ga. shotgun being racked :banana:

Not the same sound using the mambee-pambee semi-auto

:rofl:


JF. +1

[Generalcarry]

An adrenalin rush should be considered with an auto.

[Glockman1000]

Originally posted by Generalcarry
An adrenalin rush should be considered with an auto.

How so???

[Gunfixr]

For me, it's a pump, always. For HD, it probably doesn't really matter, as you will buy ammo that you want to use and can pretest it for function in your gun. For SHTF, definitely a pump. When your ammo runs out, and you're taking whatever you can get, the pump will always work. Even if the round misfires, the pump will stay open without having to empty it first for you to clear the bore, while only some autos can do this.