Officially FED UP With "Safety Inspections" [Archive] - Glock Talk

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DreamWeaver88
12-28-2006, 19:25
So I'm on Christmas vacation earlier this week, and I decide to buy a gun on Tuesday. I take it to the Madison Heights police department for the "Safety Inspection" (Madison Heights' days for registration are Tuesday & Thursday from 1pm to 3:30pm), but they're on vacation. So I had to go back today (during work hours) and lose an hour and fifty minutes of pay.

There were 4 people ahead of me and it took an hour and twenty minutes. This is such a waste of my work time. I'm tired of it.

Wasn't there some new law or ruling that said they have to take care of registration and purchase permits during their normal business hours, not just on certain days and hours?????

DW

Glock 38
12-28-2006, 23:28
Yes -- here's the AG letter addressing the issue.

http://www.firearmsalliance.org/AGLetter7-17-06.pdf

gsbell
12-29-2006, 11:45
DW,
Everyone is fed up with it even where it works like it is supposed to. FYI Madison Heights is SAFR's list of municipalities with issues.

DreamWeaver88
12-30-2006, 04:32
Originally posted by gsbell
DW,
Everyone is fed up with it even where it works like it is supposed to. FYI Madison Heights is SAFR's list of municipalities with issues.

I just wish that there were fines or something in place for these cities that don't play by the rules.

In Madison Heights, it's the Detectives that have to handle the purchase permits and inspections. Maybe that's why they suck so bad at it. They should be required to hire a dedicated permit/inspection person to handle it 5 days a week, 8 hours a day. Why burden the Detectives with it.....

DW

darkside852003
12-30-2006, 11:29
I went to register a gun in Warren yesterday. After sitting there for 45 minutes someone finally told me there computers were down and to come back after the first. Warrens hours for registration are, Tuesday and Wednesday 2pm-4pm and Thursday and Friday 10am-12pm. If they get busy they turn people away, which happened to me several times.

cos
12-30-2006, 13:11
Jeez, I didn't realize some townships were so bad. As an eastsider I go to the Macomb Co Sheriff in Mt. Clemens anytime during normal business hours and I'm done in 15 mins.

gsbell
12-30-2006, 14:41
Thanks for the info Darkside

Nephilim
12-31-2006, 01:35
I hate them on libertarian principles alone... but I've never had a hassle. I've done all my checks in Kalamazoo at the Crosstown Parkway police station. There has never been a line and it usually takes 10 minutes or less. I -hate- doing it... but at least it isn't a bigger pain in the ass than driving there would be.

oily_oink
12-31-2006, 10:42
No problem in the City of Roseville. Never a line! Open for inspection 3 days a week. Takes 10 minutes & $1.00 to laminate the green card.

For a City that was a joke when it came to purchase permits & weapons inspections: Hamtramck! I don't know how they are now, but 7 years ago you only had a couple of hours 1 day a week! Don't let the ID Detective be on vacation!!!:brickwall:

phool
12-31-2006, 16:41
I was able to talk Madison Heights into letting me do it on a Saturday morning. It was a deal where I had to jump through crazy hoops to get the permit to purchase, and then I kept trying to get in there to get it registered, and they weren't taking them for whatever reason. I finally spoke to somebody higher up, and explained to them that I don't want to go to jail for failing to register within the 10 days when I've tried to come in three times already.

But yes... they certainly are a PITA!

umc
01-02-2007, 15:06
Originally posted by DreamWeaver88
I just wish that there were fines or something in place for these cities that don't play by the rules.

In Madison Heights, it's the Detectives that have to handle the purchase permits and inspections. Maybe that's why they suck so bad at it. They should be required to hire a dedicated permit/inspection person to handle it 5 days a week, 8 hours a day. Why burden the Detectives with it.....

DW

The only way to "fix" this is to make this whole BS registration go away. I see no reason for it other than to be able to confiscate our pistols one day besides not all states do this so why do we again?

gsbell
01-02-2007, 18:37
Originally posted by umc
..... so why do we again?
Started as a Jim Crow thing and never went away, and with the last election results it's not likely to be going away anytime soon.

Wurm
01-02-2007, 20:19
I just love leaving work in the middle of the day to get a safety inspection done in Ferndale. Tuesday and Wednesday from 10:00am to 11:30am are such convenient hours too! I've gotta run up there tomorrow to show them my new Kel-Tec P3AT.

cos
01-02-2007, 21:26
Wurm,

I bought a P3AT last yr. It's great, especially with a finger support on the bottom of the mag and a Hogue grip (which needs to be timmed and glued). I also did a "fluff and buff". All this stuff is on the KTOG forum.

lakota169
01-02-2007, 22:08
Originally posted by Wurm
I just love leaving work in the middle of the day to get a safety inspection done in Ferndale. Tuesday and Wednesday from 10:00am to 11:30am are such convenient hours too! I've gotta run up there tomorrow to show them my new Kel-Tec P3AT.

Do you know anybody from Ferndale nicknamed Muggsy?

snow4brains
01-02-2007, 23:57
I get to have one "inspected" tomorrow. I wonder how many internals could be removed and still pass inspection? LOL

Maverick1023
01-03-2007, 00:51
This is from the "Ask a Lawyer" section of MCRGO -

Q: I have a friend who has purchased a hand gun and he has had a problem getting it registered because the sheriffs office has limited hours for registation of handguns.
A: MCL 28.422 (3) says... The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States.

MCL 28.422 (5) says... Upon the sale of the pistol, the seller shall fill out the license forms describing the pistol sold, together with the date of sale, and sign his or her name in ink indicating that the pistol was sold to the licensee. The licensee shall also sign his or her name in ink indicating the purchase of the pistol from the seller. The seller may retain a copy of the license as a record of the sale of the pistol. The licensee shall return 2 copies of the license to the licensing authority within 10 days following the purchase of the pistol.

MCL 28.422 (12) says... A licensing authority shall implement this section during all of the licensing authority's normal business hours and shall set hours for implementation that allow an applicant to use the license within the time period set forth in subsection (6).

I would call your local sheriff and ask him to adjust his hours to accommodate the law. If this doesn't work. Have a lawyer write the letter.

DenGlock
01-04-2007, 18:32
I register my guns at the Sherrif's Dept. in Clinton County. It's so simple and fast. The treatment there is great from the time I walk into the place and when I leave. The people at the front desk are extremely good at what they do. :supergrin:

DreamWeaver88
01-04-2007, 21:50
Here's a question....

Can I take a pistol to the Oakland County Sheriff and get it registered instead of going to my local PD? Or does it absolutely have to be done by the PD in the city you live in?

DW

Tim13
01-04-2007, 22:49
Originally posted by DreamWeaver88
Here's a question....

Can I take a pistol to the Oakland County Sheriff and get it registered instead of going to my local PD? Or does it absolutely have to be done by the PD in the city you live in?

DW


That's a good question. I was under the impression that all of the PD's and Sheriff's offices used the same State of Michigan computer program to 'register'. Doesn't this info go to the MSP anyway, and not to the department doing the actual data input?

Tim

snow4brains
01-04-2007, 22:51
I was told you have to register in the county you reside in. Was confirmed by my dealer and Sheriff dept.

dougwtx
01-05-2007, 12:35
There is a thread over at ar15.com in the Hometown Michigan forum to expose local departments breaking the rules/laws to obtain a purchase permit.

Here's the link, Michigan purchase issues (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=39&t=254328)

10 Ring Tao
01-06-2007, 20:50
Also on MIGunowners...

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16982

The ones spearheading the purchase permit BS are from SAFR. Consider joining, and help them keep the heat on these misbehaving cop shops.

http://www.firearmsalliance.org/

umc
01-08-2007, 18:54
Originally posted by DreamWeaver88
Here's a question....

Can I take a pistol to the Oakland County Sheriff and get it registered instead of going to my local PD? Or does it absolutely have to be done by the PD in the city you live in?

DW

I've called the Oakland County Sheriff and asked this exact question (because I don't like dealing with my local PD as they make me leave my firearms) and the Sheriff told me that I have to get it done by my local PD if I have a local PD to do it.

Letner
01-08-2007, 19:13
Yea it's a pain. Every time I take a gun in I get nothing but a hard time. I went in about a year ago to regiser a gun I gave the guy my CCW and drivers license and after a few minutes he started going on about how I didn't look the same as I did in my pictures and wanted some other proof as to who I was. After showing my SS card and a credit card he finaly made a mumble and gave me the green card. About a month later he gave me crap about my height saying that he thought I was taller than what was listed on my CCW and after messing around with that I finaly got my green card.

Glkster19
01-08-2007, 20:23
Originally posted by DenGlock
I register my guns at the Sherrif's Dept. in Clinton County. It's so simple and fast. The treatment there is great from the time I walk into the place and when I leave. The people at the front desk are extremely good at what they do. :supergrin:



Unless thye've changed Sheriffs and/or Prosecutors, these 2 in Clinton Co are very much for CCW from what I hear from people in Clinton Co. The legal portion of the class I took used to be taught by the Prosecutor from Clinton Co. :thumbsup:

cos
01-08-2007, 20:57
Letner,

What town is this?

Letner
01-08-2007, 21:01
Menominee MI

brucek
01-09-2007, 17:15
Never had a problem "registering" a gun at the Farmington Hills PD. An Admin clerk just looks at the piece, measures barrel length, records serial number, make, caliber, number of shots and signs off. 10 minutes tops. The problem with FH PD is the Purchase Permit. The chief only signs on "a week from Thursday" - Essentially a one week to 13 day cooling off period. This applies no matter how many guns you've purchased and registered before. Like I'm going to buy a brand new pistol just to do something illegal with? Like the many other guns in the safe aren't good enough?

Doesn't have to make sense - It's the Government!
--

Brucek

Maverick1023
01-09-2007, 18:23
Originally posted by brucek
The problem with FH PD is the Purchase Permit. The chief only signs on "a week from Thursday" - Essentially a one week to 13 day cooling off period. This applies no matter how many guns you've purchased and registered before. Like I'm going to buy a brand new pistol just to do something illegal with? Like the many other guns in the safe aren't good enough?

Doesn't have to make sense - It's the Government!
--

Brucek I believe that is against Michigan Law. Please see my earlier post.

Tim13
01-09-2007, 21:29
Why not bypass the whole permit purchase thing by getting a CPL? This way, there's no "cooling off period".

Tim

DreamWeaver88
01-09-2007, 22:45
Originally posted by umc
I've called the Oakland County Sheriff and asked this exact question (because I don't like dealing with my local PD as they make me leave my firearms) and the Sheriff told me that I have to get it done by my local PD if I have a local PD to do it.

Well, that just sucks. :steamed:

DW

DreamWeaver88
01-09-2007, 22:47
Originally posted by Tim13
Why not bypass the whole permit purchase thing by getting a CPL? This way, there's no "cooling off period".

Tim

That was one of the main reasons I got mine. Madison Heights makes you wait a full week after you turn in your application for a purchase permit. Turn it in on Tuesday, pick it up the following Tuesday.......Thursday, you have to wait until the following Thursday.

Ahh yes, I love it when "the law" breaks the law.

DW

Barbara
01-10-2007, 05:40
All these locations are breaking the law..we're working on some fixes for this. The problem is so widespread that our first solution isn't going to work, so we're pursuing two other options right now with attorneys and will let you know the plan soon.

brucek
01-10-2007, 18:49
Originally posted by Tim13
Why not bypass the whole permit purchase thing by getting a CPL? This way, there's no "cooling off period".

Tim

Well, yes that would circumvent the issue, but shouldn't there be universal guidelines? When I lived in Grosse Pointe Farms the PD issued a permit on a while you wait basis. 10-15 minutes. Then I move to Farmington and have to go through Chief Dryer's (sp?) musical permit program every time I buy a pistol. Kinda hard sometimes on impulse or super right now deals!

Regarding the CCW, I still have some issues with the current law and it is not on my priority list. Also there are some FFL's out there who do not honor a CCW as a Purchase permit - another inconsistancy which needs to be fixed!
--

BruceK

brucek
01-10-2007, 18:53
PS - Last permit with Farmington Hills involved a G23 left to me by my Uncle upon his passing last year. I still had to wait the week from Thursday BS. At least the transfer from a dead individual was much less of a hassle than I expected it to be.
--

BruceK

mike23
01-12-2007, 15:00
Also there are some FFL's out there who do not honor a CCW as a Purchase permit...

Is this a store? I can't believe they're still in business!

Scooter70
01-13-2007, 20:28
Originally posted by brucek
[B]Never had a problem "registering" a gun at the Farmington Hills PD. An Admin clerk just looks at the piece, measures barrel length, records serial number, make, caliber, number of shots and signs off. 10 minutes tops. The problem with FH PD is the Purchase Permit. The chief only signs on "a week from Thursday" - Essentially a one week to 13 day cooling off period. This applies no matter how many guns you've purchased and registered before. Like I'm going to buy a brand new pistol just to do something illegal with? Like the many other guns in the safe aren't good enough?



I haven't had an problems with FHPD either. By the time you go up to Records to get the green card typed out, they're done with the "inspection".

I haven't had to mess with purchase permits, since I have had a CCW since before I bought my P229.

Blitzer
01-13-2007, 20:39
And I thought Ohio CCW sucked! :sad: :upeyes: :shocked:

10 Ring Tao
01-13-2007, 23:31
Originally posted by Blitzer
And I thought Ohio CCW sucked! :sad: :upeyes: :shocked:

What we're talking about here doesn't really have anything to do with carrying the guns, it has to do with aquiring them.

Not trying to start anything, but I'd take a MI CCW in MI over an OH CCW in OH any day.

wizzi01
01-14-2007, 12:18
Originally posted by 10 Ring Tao
What we're talking about here doesn't really have anything to do with carrying the guns, it has to do with aquiring them.

Not trying to start anything, but I'd take a MI CCW in MI over an OH CCW in OH any day.

And I would take an Alaska ccw over a Michigan ccw any day.

mike23
01-15-2007, 10:40
FWIW- Auburn Heights is great! They take about 10 minutes to run your name through the computer and type up the card. The green card is issued immediately. The staff is very friendly and professional.

GIJoeCam
01-23-2007, 18:50
The problem is a combination of two issues IMHO: One being the complete lack of knowledge at the local level, combined with the lack of an established procedure for dealing with the offenders. Like the newly passed smoking ban in Toledo, if there's no penalty for breaking the law, nobody's going to stop breaking it.

The other issue is a problem with the law itself. I'm not trying to defend the actions of the municipalities in question, but the law established a procedure the we the owners have to follow, but the law fell short in that it neither established a specific procedure for the municipality to follow, nor did it provide the means by which to make that happen. The new law said that the city had to do {fill in the blank} but it didn't name a specific person to this responsibility, or provide funding to staff said person's efforts. Add that all up, and you're left with a procedure that has to be followed, but no uniform standard for how to make that happen, and no penalty for not following the procedure.

I think some more revisions are in order, and I'd love to hear what SAFR's working on with regards to that. I don't think a lawsuit is necessarily the best answer. I'd be more inclined to look towards amending the law to establish a specific person at the office (e.g. the city/county clerk) to take gun registrations---I mean perform safety inspections--- between the hours of 9-5 on any day the office is normally open. That would clearly define WHO, WHERE, and WHEN the inspections would happen.

-Joe

Barbara
01-23-2007, 20:31
Well, we worked with Representative Caswell to get the original opinion, but you're correct that the problem is no penalties.

Currently we're verifying the problems we've heard of..sometimes, the stories aren't quite right, or situations have changed.

In some cases, like Grand Ledge, Walker, and a couple of others, the folks in charge changed the rules when informed..we give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Our attorney is drafting a letter to each of the locations..at the same time, we're working with a couple of legislators to decide what the best process is..starting with requesting more assistance from the AG and/or the State police. But the letters are being sent for a couple of reasons..one to give notice to the localities, secondly to provide evidence of their blatant refusal to change, and thirdly, as a foundation for future potential legal action.

jolt8me
01-25-2007, 03:26
Bloomfeild township suxs. The guy who does the inspection is an arrogant ahole. Been in there twice for two different guns. First time i go in dureing the 2 hours they do it and hes out for lunch. Means i have to come back a week later when they do it dureing their "special" inspection days. Come back the next week and ask him about him being out to lunch the week before and he basically tells me if i want my gun inspected or not and that he doesnt have to do it.
The next time i go in he hands me my gun back after the inspection and says "i dont know why you would buy a piece of junk like that" it was a taurus 605 .357 that i have been pleased with.

mikeb9550
01-25-2007, 14:21
Originally posted by Barbara
Well, we worked with Representative Caswell to get the original opinion, but you're correct that the problem is no penalties.

Currently we're verifying the problems we've heard of..sometimes, the stories aren't quite right, or situations have changed.

In some cases, like Grand Ledge, Walker, and a couple of others, the folks in charge changed the rules when informed..we give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Our attorney is drafting a letter to each of the locations..at the same time, we're working with a couple of legislators to decide what the best process is..starting with requesting more assistance from the AG and/or the State police. But the letters are being sent for a couple of reasons..one to give notice to the localities, secondly to provide evidence of their blatant refusal to change, and thirdly, as a foundation for future potential legal action.


My city (Garden City) is violating the law as well but I have to call tomorrow and talk to someone about it. Hopefully they will just change their practice once informed. I do plan on taking the letter with me. Anyone that isnt a member of SAFR should join.

DreamWeaver88
01-25-2007, 22:43
Originally posted by jolt8me
Bloomfeild township suxs. The guy who does the inspection is an arrogant ahole. Been in there twice for two different guns. First time i go in dureing the 2 hours they do it and hes out for lunch. Means i have to come back a week later when they do it dureing their "special" inspection days. Come back the next week and ask him about him being out to lunch the week before and he basically tells me if i want my gun inspected or not and that he doesnt have to do it.
The next time i go in he hands me my gun back after the inspection and says "i dont know why you would buy a piece of junk like that" it was a taurus 605 .357 that i have been pleased with.


Sounds like a real asset to that department.

DW

DreamWeaver88
01-25-2007, 22:44
Originally posted by mikeb9550
Anyone that isnt a member of SAFR should join.

Good idea. I'm definitely going to join.

DW

centennial
01-26-2007, 06:48
Originally posted by mike23
Is this a store? I can't believe they're still in business!

Most of the big box stores are operating under this policy.

losdog24
01-26-2007, 14:51
I just got my safety inspection done today. It took less than 15 minutes tops. Not to mention I was a <strong><em>little</em></strong> over the 10 days that its supposed to be done in.

bassplayer
02-01-2007, 19:29
Just don't register it.. Simple as that :shocked:

GIJoeCam
02-01-2007, 20:34
Originally posted by bassplayer
Just don't register it.. Simple as that :shocked:

Yeah, because that's an effective way of dealing with an inconvenient legal requirement.....

bassplayer
02-02-2007, 20:16
Well, if you don't like that answer then do one of two things: Get off your duff and organize a movement to change the law or you can move out of this sorry-ass state :)

Forgot the [sarcasm] tags on the last post....:wavey:

mikeb9550
02-02-2007, 21:19
I was wondering why the opinion isnt on the website nor has a number assigned to it. Today I talked to my local police and gave them a copy. They said they will check into it and look at making things right if the letter is legit. First thing they asked was what the opionion number was. I replied that it didnt have one. It would be easier if they could go to the website were the rest of them are and look on their own. Appears that the letter was just sent to the two reps. Is this true?



Originally posted by Barbara
Well, we worked with Representative Caswell to get the original opinion, but you're correct that the problem is no penalties.

Currently we're verifying the problems we've heard of..sometimes, the stories aren't quite right, or situations have changed.

In some cases, like Grand Ledge, Walker, and a couple of others, the folks in charge changed the rules when informed..we give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Our attorney is drafting a letter to each of the locations..at the same time, we're working with a couple of legislators to decide what the best process is..starting with requesting more assistance from the AG and/or the State police. But the letters are being sent for a couple of reasons..one to give notice to the localities, secondly to provide evidence of their blatant refusal to change, and thirdly, as a foundation for future potential legal action.

bayshtyshorty
02-14-2007, 16:36
In Bay County, I can take them to either the sheriff or city boys (in the same building anyway), and I'm done in 10 - 15 Minutes every time.

JellyBelly
02-15-2007, 02:18
Originally posted by DenGlock
I register my guns at the Sherrif's Dept. in Clinton County. It's so simple and fast. The treatment there is great from the time I walk into the place and when I leave. The people at the front desk are extremely good at what they do. :supergrin:

I'm in Dewitt. Will I have to run to St. Johns or can I do it at the Dewitt PD?

Lansing has been very good to me, but I moved.

JellyBelly
02-15-2007, 02:20
Originally posted by Glkster19
Unless thye've changed Sheriffs and/or Prosecutors, these 2 in Clinton Co are very much for CCW from what I hear from people in Clinton Co. The legal portion of the class I took used to be taught by the Prosecutor from Clinton Co. :thumbsup:

Did you go to John Speck?

gsbell
02-15-2007, 11:31
Originally posted by mikeb9550
I was wondering why the opinion isnt on the website nor has a number assigned to it.

It's from the AG's office, but not an "official" AG opinion.

Landor
02-15-2007, 13:49
When I lived in MH I went to the PD to get a permit to buy. In order to do so I had to first talk to a detective. He sat me down in a chair am spoke to me like I was a 5 year old child. After that I decided to get a CPL. What a PUTZ..

I moved out of MH soon after that. Now I deal with the Oakland County Sheriff. They have it down pat. I am in and out in ten minutes.

freakshow10mm
02-17-2007, 00:04
I'm in Keweenaw County. If I don't BS with the deputy I'm out of there in 5 minutes. I was just in there Wednesday registering my Pro Carry 40 and I took me 6 minutes. They see me pull in and they start the paperwork.

The only thing that sucks is the gun shop is 20 miles south of me and the SO (the only LE agency in my county) is 15 miles north of me. So I have to drive 20 miles to Hancock to buy the gun, then 35 miles north to register it, then another 15 miles south back home. Buying a gun is 70 miles worth of driving at 18mpg/ $2.30per gal is $9 in gas and about an hour and a half's time.

Cicero
02-19-2007, 13:17
Originally posted by DenGlock
I register my guns at the Sherrif's Dept. in Clinton County. It's so simple and fast. The treatment there is great from the time I walk into the place and when I leave. The people at the front desk are extremely good at what they do. :supergrin:

And they're not terribly thrilled with the law either. A very good bunch of people up there.