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Pinki
01-02-2007, 19:42
I'm a little confused on concealed carry for restaurants. I know that you can't carry into a bar (serving alcohol), but I guess a restaurant to me is less cut and dry (although they serve alcohol but some restaurants don't). What is the rules for them? I can almost swear that my concealed instructor said you can just pull the gun up from the holster so it shows just a bit -- but then one would be open carrying so I must have heard him wrong?

Thanks for any insights into this! :wavey:

ULVER
01-02-2007, 22:28
Here in Georgia, we aren't "suppose" to carry where they serve alcohol.

As long as there's no metal detector, or L/E at the door, I carry every time, via my fanny-pack.

I don't get drunk and do stoooopid things, so why should I leave my gun in the trunk? Carried smartly, no one is the wiser.:)

Sapperstang
01-03-2007, 05:47
If they serve alcohol you can't carry there. Stupid law IMO.

Strider47
01-03-2007, 10:39
Is it ANY alcohol, or do they have to generate the majority of their revenue off of alcohol (i.e., a bar)? It's been forever since I took the class. I was under the impression that Applebee's and their ilk were fair game.

gconan
01-03-2007, 18:58
If they charge for alcohol, then you cannot carry there. I do not like it, but that is the rules.

Rob1035
01-03-2007, 19:24
I'm a huge fan of fast food and IHOP anyways:upeyes:

Grayson
01-03-2007, 20:56
To clarify, IIRC, if they sell **ANY** alcohol for consumption on the premesis you cannot carry there. And it's the same over in Tennessee. Well, I like Arby's and Jersey Mike's! :supergrin:

One of the (MINOR) reasons I'm fighting to keep my county "dry!" :thumbsup:

Hopefully we can eventually get it changed to at least the "51%" rule like in Texas.

Pinki
01-04-2007, 04:54
Ok, but what about the part about pulling it slightly out of the holster. Did I hear correctly or am I confused or is that just a good way to get arrested? :animlol:

Grayson
01-04-2007, 06:32
Yeah - good way to get arrested or have a ND, especially with a chambered Glock...:shocked:

I wouldn't "pull it out of the holster," but open carry with the gun fully holstered but not covered **may** be an option. I highly doubt it though, check packing.org or handgunlaw.us to see.

IIRC, you CAN open carry in NC, so long as some blissninny does not see it and call the cops on you for "going armed to the terror of the public. ;) BUT, I'd err on the side of caution and assume the same places are off limits as when CCWing until I learn otherwise.

Glocks&Ducs
01-06-2007, 16:30
Originally posted by Pgrl
Ok, but what about the part about pulling it slightly out of the holster. Did I hear correctly or am I confused or is that just a good way to get arrested? :animlol:


There are two sets of rules you need to follow. Places you can't carry at all, and places you can't carry concealed. These places fall under both. It sounds like your instructor shouldn't be an instructor.

Glocks&Ducs
01-06-2007, 16:33
Originally posted by ULVER
Here in Georgia, we aren't "suppose" to carry where they serve alcohol.

As long as there's no metal detector, or L/E at the door, I carry every time, via my fanny-pack.

I don't get drunk and do stoooopid things, so why should I leave my gun in the trunk? Carried smartly, no one is the wiser.:)

Yeah, but unless I am visiting the parents in Chicago. Whenever I see someone with a fanny pack, I can pretty much tell they are carrying. I am sure an LEO thinks the same. This is especially true when the fanny pack is all saggy and droopy. Obviously weighted down by a heavy firearm and probably an extra mag.

Pinki
01-07-2007, 06:41
It sounds like your instructor shouldn't be an instructor.

I think that's a little harsh. My instructor was very good; I probably heard him wrong. Being that we do not have an "introduction to firearms" class around here, I used the concealed class as my introduction. So, it was a lot of information to learn when I didn't know the first thing about guns. Everyone else in the class was familiar with guns.

Glocks&Ducs
01-07-2007, 08:24
Originally posted by Pgrl
I think that's a little harsh. My instructor was very good; I probably heard him wrong. Being that we do not have an "introduction to firearms" class around here, I used the concealed class as my introduction. So, it was a lot of information to learn when I didn't know the first thing about guns. Everyone else in the class was familiar with guns.

OK, have it your way. But remember, if you get arrested for using or carrying your gun and the circumstances turned out to be against the law, "my instructor didn't tell me" or "I must have heard my instructor wrong" are not going to get you off the hook.

http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf

Pinki
01-07-2007, 08:59
Good grief. Obviously I posted the question because I was unsure; therefore, I did not carry into any restaurants.

glockinNC
01-09-2007, 11:29
Originally posted by Glocks&Ducs
http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf
Thanks for posting this. Very useful document. But what's up with the following section (III.D.):

3. STATE BUILDINGS

It is also unlawful under state law, for any person to possess or carry a weapon, not used for instructional or officially sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in the State Capitol Building, Executive Mansion, Western Residence of the Governor, or on the grounds of these buildings, including any building used to house any Court of the General Court of Justice. Persons exempted by the provisions of G.S. 14-269(b) are not bound by this prohibition. These persons are set forth in paragraph III. A. of this publication. Also exempt are persons in possession of weapons for evidentiary purposes, or who are delivering the weapon to a law enforcement agency. This prohibition does not apply to state owned rest areas, rest stops along the highways, and state owned hunting and fishing reservations. Possessing or carrying a weapon in these areas is a misdemeanor. A concealed handgun permit does not allow a permittee to carry a weapon in these areas.

The last part of this statement is totally confusing. The first sentence in bold says that the prohibition against carrying a weapon in state buildings does not apply to rest areas, etc. However, the subsequent sentences state that it is in fact illegal to possess a weapon at highway rest stops, etc. (whether or not the individual is in possession of a valid CHP permit), but that the crime is a misdemeanor (maybe not a felony as it would be if an individual walked into the state capital armed?).

But that would mean it is a misdemeanor to carry a weapon into a state owned hunting reservation, and how the heck are you supposed to hunt without a weapon!?!

Can anyone provide some clarification on this? I'd like to know whether or not I can legally carry with a valid CHP at rest stops or whether I'll be making pit stops at other establishments from now on.

**edited (forgot to add bold font to text)

Glocks&Ducs
01-09-2007, 15:50
Originally posted by glockinNC
Thanks for posting this. Very useful document. But what's up with the following section (III.D.):

3. STATE BUILDINGS

It is also unlawful under state law, for any person to possess or carry a weapon, not used for instructional or officially sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in the State Capitol Building, Executive Mansion, Western Residence of the Governor, or on the grounds of these buildings, including any building used to house any Court of the General Court of Justice. Persons exempted by the provisions of G.S. 14-269(b) are not bound by this prohibition. These persons are set forth in paragraph III. A. of this publication. Also exempt are persons in possession of weapons for evidentiary purposes, or who are delivering the weapon to a law enforcement agency. This prohibition does not apply to state owned rest areas, rest stops along the highways, and state owned hunting and fishing reservations. Possessing or carrying a weapon in these areas is a misdemeanor. A concealed handgun permit does not allow a permittee to carry a weapon in these areas.

The last part of this statement is totally confusing. The first sentence in bold says that the prohibition against carrying a weapon in state buildings does not apply to rest areas, etc. However, the subsequent sentences state that it is in fact illegal to possess a weapon at highway rest stops, etc. (whether or not the individual is in possession of a valid CHP permit), but that the crime is a misdemeanor (maybe not a felony as it would be if an individual walked into the state capital armed?).

But that would mean it is a misdemeanor to carry a weapon into a state owned hunting reservation, and how the heck are you supposed to hunt without a weapon!?!

Can anyone provide some clarification on this? I'd like to know whether or not I can legally carry with a valid CHP at rest stops or whether I'll be making pit stops at other establishments from now on.

**edited (forgot to add bold font to text)

To me, it looks like it is simply clarifying that carrying or possessing in those areas cited in the entire paragraph is a misdemeanor and also that the CCW does not permit you to carry in those areas, but that the prohibition "does not apply to state owned rest areas, rest stops along the highways, and state owned hunting and fishing reservations. "

In other words, some people may think that they can carry or possess a gun in places that one normally can't, just because they have a CCW. But that is not the case. They are basically just double stating that. There are other places that they do that in that document and it is confusing.

Grayson
01-09-2007, 17:55
This seems like the perfect place to mention that everyone here should consider writing their state lawmakers to try and get some of the stupid restricions in our CCW law erased. :patriot:

Some changes off the top of my head I'd like:

*a specific format for "no-guns" signs to "count," as laid out in several state CCW laws. IE, 8x11 size, PLAINLY posted at ALL entrances, must contain specific wording.

*Again, changing the law to where a business must make 51% of it's income from alcohol sales to make it illegal to CCW there. (if not just repeal that part altogether!)

*Places that you have to pay admission to get into? Funerals? Areas of emergencies? I'm not going to GO to a riot if one breaks out, but what if I get caught up in one while CCWing and have to use it for self-defense? I either get carried by six or judged by twelve!

I'd like to think the hard part was getting the RTC laws, now hopefully since the streets aren't "running red with blood" as the Brady Bunch predicted, we can convince Raleigh to ease up on the restrictions they hit us with!

glockinNC
01-11-2007, 13:08
Originally posted by Glocks&Ducs
In other words, some people may think that they can carry or possess a gun in places that one normally can't, just because they have a CCW. But that is not the case. They are basically just double stating that. There are other places that they do that in that document and it is confusing.
It's really too bad that the document is confusing in several places. Obviously, the intention was to provide clarification of the gun laws, not cause more confusion. It's certainly a subject where it is of the utmost importantance to be utterly, plainly clear. I mean, we're not talking about jaywalking here...

glockinNC
01-11-2007, 13:11
This prohibition does not apply to state owned rest areas, rest stops along the highways, and state owned hunting and fishing reservations.
For God's sake, if they wanted to eliminate the confusion, just move the sentence above to the end of the paragraph in question and call it a day. Problem solved...:upeyes:

Hef
01-13-2007, 08:53
I think it should be perfectly legal to carry in any restaurant, bar, nightclub, etc, so long as you don't drink. Alcohol and guns don't mix, so have a gun or have a few beers, but don't have both.


Makes sense to me.

Fredman
01-15-2007, 11:05
Concealed carry in places that serve alcohol for on-site consumption is prohibited.

I don't believe there's law, one way or the other, on open carry in those same places.

And NC is an open carry state, as long as you're not ""going armed to the terror of the public" (which basically means anything the po-po and DA wants it to mean).

Glocks&Ducs
01-15-2007, 15:15
Originally posted by Fredman
Concealed carry in places that serve alcohol for on-site consumption is prohibited.

I don't believe there's law, one way or the other, on open carry in those same places.

And NC is an open carry state, as long as you're not ""going armed to the terror of the public" (which basically means anything the po-po and DA wants it to mean).

This is a law that falls under "offenses against the public peace", it is not specific to concealed carry. It is illegal, as was already stated.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/Statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0014
-------------------------
14‑269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

(b) This section shall not apply to the following:

(1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14‑269;

(2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment;

(3) A person participating in the event, if he is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event; and

(4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event. (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4, c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)
------------------------

Originally posted by Glocks&Ducs
There are two sets of rules you need to follow. Places you can't carry at all, and places you can't carry concealed. These places fall under both. It sounds like your instructor shouldn't be an instructor.

Amazing isn't it?

hawgrider
01-15-2007, 16:17
This is typical of alot of laws in NC they are confusing and can be interpreted in various ways.:shocked:

wilsoni91
01-16-2007, 01:19
There is an easy way to figure it out, if you think it is wrong then most likely it is. If people use that rule of thumb then there would be alot less problems.

Hef
01-18-2007, 10:29
In SC, if the location has a permit from the SCDOR for on-premise consumption of alcohol, you can't carry there. That's what I was told by the AG, SLED, and the Beaufort County Sheriff's Office.

obxemt
02-01-2007, 16:35
I know I'm late on this one, but I've read the thread and need to vent since this has bothered me for years.

You know, its funny...I've been a cop for seven years now. Of all the ignorant drunks I've dealt with and all the bar fights I've responded to, not a one of them involved a sober, armed CCW permit holder. Talk about a law looking for a problem.

That part of the statute is straight-up gay. Cop or no cop, if you think I'd expect anyone to leave their gun in the car for dinner or at a nasty seedy rest area, whatever. As long as you have no (and I mean ZERO) alcohol in your system, I don't see the problem.

I can't speak for anyone else, but other than government buildings, I couldn't care less where someone with a permit carries. Funny how those "CCW prohibited" signs don't seem to bother the thugs, isn't it?

JungleJim
02-01-2007, 16:46
Originally posted by Hef
In SC, if the location has a permit from the SCDOR for on-premise consumption of alcohol, you can't carry there. That's what I was told by the AG, SLED, and the Beaufort County Sheriff's Office.

That is a ridiculous law that needs to be changed. Why should a sober, law abiding citizen be forced to disarm just to go out for dinner? No crimes ever take place in restruants or in the parking lots?

Hef
02-01-2007, 18:44
Originally posted by obxemt
I know I'm late on this one, but I've read the thread and need to vent since this has bothered me for years.

You know, its funny...I've been a cop for seven years now. Of all the ignorant drunks I've dealt with and all the bar fights I've responded to, not a one of them involved a sober, armed CCW permit holder. Talk about a law looking for a problem.

That part of the statute is straight-up gay. Cop or no cop, if you think I'd expect anyone to leave their gun in the car for dinner or at a nasty seedy rest area, whatever. As long as you have no (and I mean ZERO) alcohol in your system, I don't see the problem.

I can't speak for anyone else, but other than government buildings, I couldn't care less where someone with a permit carries. Funny how those "CCW prohibited" signs don't seem to bother the thugs, isn't it?


If you're a SC resident, please contact me if you'd like to help me amend our restaurant-carry law.

Hef
02-01-2007, 18:46
Originally posted by JungleJim
That is a ridiculous law that needs to be changed. Why should a sober, law abiding citizen be forced to disarm just to go out for dinner? No crimes ever take place in restruants or in the parking lots?

Why should I, as the manager of a business that handles large sums of cash, is open late at night, and is known to be prohibited by law from having firearms on premises, be made a target (along with my employees) simply because we serve alcohol? I don't drink more than beer, and only occasionally, and never armed.

obxemt
02-01-2007, 19:35
As an owner or employee, I doubt the statute would apply...I don't think it could, in fact. In most places (North Carolina for one) permits aren't needed to carry concealed on the premesis of a business you are owning or operating.

Glocks&Ducs
02-01-2007, 20:04
Originally posted by obxemt
As an owner or employee, I doubt the statute would apply...I don't think it could, in fact. In most places (North Carolina for one) permits aren't needed to carry concealed on the premesis of a business you are owning or operating.

I don't feel like looking it up right now, but I am sure you are right. But you are talking about NC, he is in SC. Don't know what the laws are there.

Fredman
02-01-2007, 20:04
Originally posted by obxemt

I can't speak for anyone else, but other than government buildings, I couldn't care less where someone with a permit carries. Funny how those "CCW prohibited" signs don't seem to bother the thugs, isn't it?

What I don't understand is why there's typically a blanket government building restriction. Is the CCW'er all of a sudden going to lose his mind and start banging away just because he's down at the city office paying his water bill?

Seems to me that if you're OK to carry in a private building you should be fine to carry in a government building (barring, perhaps, courthouses, jails, etc.)

obxemt
02-02-2007, 06:18
Originally posted by Glocks&Ducs
I don't feel like looking it up right now, but I am sure you are right. But you are talking about NC, he is in SC. Don't know what the laws are there.

I know he's talking about SC; I don't see how it could be in any state that a business owner couldn't carry on his/her premesis with or without a permit.

cphilip
02-02-2007, 08:50
I don't believe that it does. The section about carry in places that serve Alcohol are not applicable to the owner. He and I have discussed this before.

However, I am totaly in favor of changing the entire thing to something similar to other states that define it as "establishments that derive 50% or more of their income from..." Which then opens up places like Applebee's and such to carry. Most places like restraunts that serve alcohol would be less than 50% derived income.

I recently went into a place nearby called Moe's. It is a fast food Burrito joint. I had no idea it served any alcohol. As Iw as checking out I noticed they had a box with beer in it as you got to the end of the line. I had not checked the door for a ABC permit. So technicaly I was carrying illegaly. I ate fairly quickly and left. Had Nacho's by the way! :rofl:

Hef
02-02-2007, 13:06
"SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.

It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:

(13) the owner or the person in legal possession or the person in legal control of a fixed place of business, while at the fixed place of business, and the employee of a fixed place of business, other than a business subject to Section 16-23-465, while at the place of business; however, the employee may exercise this privilege only after: (a) acquiring a permit pursuant to item (12), and (b) obtaining the permission of the owner or person in legal control or legal possession of the premises;

SECTION 16-23-465. Additional penalty for unlawfully carrying pistol or firearm onto premises of business selling alcoholic liquors, beers or wines for on-premises consumption.

In addition to the penalties provided for by Sections 16-11-330 and 16-23-460 and by Article 1 of Chapter 23 of Title 16, a person convicted of carrying a pistol or firearm into a business which sells alcoholic liquor, beer, or wine for consumption on the premises is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than two thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

In addition to the penalties described above, a person who violates this section while carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23, must have his concealed weapon permit revoked. "

hawgrider
02-02-2007, 13:12
I ahve read all the stuff off the SC website and to me what they are saying is if you go there not if you own it or work there. Or am I way offbase on that?

Hef
02-02-2007, 14:02
Originally posted by hawgrider
I ahve read all the stuff off the SC website and to me what they are saying is if you go there not if you own it or work there. Or am I way offbase on that?


The AG told me that normally, a person could carry (open or concealed) in their fixed place of business, EXCEPT for businesses subject to Section 16-23-465, in which case nobody is allowed to carry at all.

His interpretation may be wrong, but it's his interpretation which will guide the prosecutor if I carry in my facility. I'm working to get the law changed, so that the highlighted portion of my past post is stricken.

JungleJim
02-02-2007, 14:23
Originally posted by Hef
Why should I, as the manager of a business that handles large sums of cash, is open late at night, and is known to be prohibited by law from having firearms on premises, be made a target (along with my employees) simply because we serve alcohol? I don't drink more than beer, and only occasionally, and never armed.

Oh, that's right I forgot the bad guys will obey the 'no firearms in a business that serves alcohol" laws :upeyes:

News flash: you are already a target, with the current law you can count on not being assisted by a CCW being they are prohibited from carrying.

Hucklebarry
02-02-2007, 14:44
Originally posted by cphilip


However, I am totaly in favor of changing the entire thing to something similar to other states that define it as "establishments that derive 50% or more of their income from..." Which then opens up places like Applebee's and such to carry. Most places like restraunts that serve alcohol would be less than 50% derived income.


Why settle?

Why is 50% the magic number?

If YOU are not drinking, why does it matter what everyone else is doing?

The law should be that you can carry in any establishment as long as your BAC is exactly 0%. We need to stop compromising in SC. Every law we pass is a compromise. Anti-gunners in SC are an extreme minority. Why do they keep getting their way?

Hef
02-02-2007, 17:41
Originally posted by JungleJim
Oh, that's right I forgot the bad guys will obey the 'no firearms in a business that serves alcohol" laws :upeyes:

:thumbsup:

News flash: you are already a target, with the current law you can count on not being assisted by a CCW being they are prohibited from carrying.

I'm well aware. It sucks.

hawgrider
02-02-2007, 18:03
Alright all you boy and girls from SC get off your butts and get this mess straighten out and changed. Seems like the only way it right is if you are on the wrong side of the law. If thats the case you could careless about the laws anyway.

Hef
02-08-2007, 19:18
If anyone is interested in helping me get the law amended, please contact me via PM. Any input - personal experiences, data, etc would be appreciated.

I am dead serious. I am currently working with one of our state reps (3 months now) on this. When the time comes, I hope to testify in Columbia and would like to see some support from ymfellow gun-totin' Carolinians.

Thanks guys for anything you might be able to do.

Hef
02-13-2007, 07:50
Anybody?