Flying With Firearms

[South Fla]

With all of the questions about flying with firearms and ammunition, here are links to some of the major airlines and their pages on flying with such. Be sure to check with your carrier before you fly.

Transportation Security Administration (http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm#6)
TSA - Firearms and Ammunition (http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm)
American Airlines (http://www.aa.com/content/travelInformation/baggage/firearms.jhtml)
AirTran Airways (http://www.airtran.com/policies/permitted_and_prohibited_items.aspx#6)
Delta Airlines (A) (http://delta.com/traveling_checkin/baggage/special_baggage/fragile_bulky/sporting_goods/index.jsp#shooting)
Delta Airlines (B) (http://www.delta.com/traveling_checkin/baggage/special_baggage/dangerous_goods/index.jsp)
United Airlines (http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,1035,00.html)
Southwest Airlines (http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/guns.html)
US Airways (http://www.usairways.com/awa/content/traveltools/baggage/specialitems.aspx#firearms)
Northwest Airways (http://www.nwa.com/travel/luggage/specialitems.html#fire)
Frontier Airlines (http://www.frontierairlines.com/frontier/plan-book/travel-info-services/baggage/equipment-firearms.do)
JetBlue (http://help.jetblue.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/webisapi.dll/,/?St=27,E=0000000000006642248,K=9748,Sxi=15,Case=obj(2236)#s10)
Alaska Airlines (http://www.alaskaair.com/www2/help/faqs/SportRelatedItems.asp)
ATA (http://www.ata.com/traveler_resources/before_you_fly/firearms_hazard.html)
Air Canada (http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/airport/baggage/security.html)
Continental Airlines (http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/travel/baggage/sports.aspx?&SID=CB3366392C464F428557F1545B8328C0)
Midwest Airlines (http://midwestairlines.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/midwestairlines.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=432&p_created=1162239931&p_sid=_8eiKOqi&p_accessibility=0&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PWRmbHQmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTIxNSZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY 9JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9MyZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWZpcmVhcm1z&p_li=&p_topview=1)

[KyInvestigator]

I routinely fly Delta and have never experienced a problem....at least not yet.

Gun and ammo in separate locked cases inside a checked bag. Declare empty firearm at counter, demonstrate empty to agent, sign FAA statement, place statement into gun case and lock. Only I have the key. Gun never has to come out again and the bag is NOT identified as containing a firearm. A note is that I always bring the original box for the ammo in case they want to see that, but as of yet I have never had to open the locked case with the ammo.

Be safe and happy....fly with a friend ( I bring my wife and my Glock 27). :thumbsup:

[South Fla]

btt

[Raoul Duke]

Originally posted by KyInvestigator
I routinely fly Delta and have never experienced a problem....at least not yet.


Just don't try it in New York City. Federal law and the US Constitution don't apply there.

[PursuitFRC]

Originally posted by KyInvestigator
I routinely fly Delta and have never experienced a problem....at least not yet.

Gun and ammo in separate locked cases inside a checked bag. Declare empty firearm at counter, demonstrate empty to agent, sign FAA statement, place statement into gun case and lock. Only I have the key. Gun never has to come out again and the bag is NOT identified as containing a firearm.

Demonstrate empty? Where do they have you do this? Right in front of the other 100 passengers waiting in line?

[Glocks&Ducs]

Originally posted by Raoul Duke
Just don't try it in New York City. Federal law and the US Constitution don't apply there.

Same thing in Chicago.

[KyInvestigator]

Originally posted by PursuitFRC
Demonstrate empty? Where do they have you do this? Right in front of the other 100 passengers waiting in line?

Yes...at the counter. All I have to do is to unlock the case the firearm is in and let them see that the cylinder or magwell is empty. I have had one savy guy ask me to demonstrate nothing in the chamber. They will then have the flyer sign a federally authorized form stating that the weapon is empty and put the form in the case and watch me lock it again.

Typically that ends things with me taking my bag to the screeners who do not seem interested that there is a firearm in the bag, however at Orlando I was escorted to the screener and asked to wait until they scanned the bag. Not sure of the rationale on this latter event as I have not had that happen before.

[ioema]

do not allow the ticket agent to place the form inside the locked case that contains the firearm IF that locked case is inside another piece of checked baggage. the form MUST be placed inside the checked baggage near the locked case and NOT INSIDE THE LOCKED CASE. if the locked case is ITSELF THE CHECKED BAGGAGE (for example, a rifle case that is not inside another piece of checked baggage) then allow the ticket agent to place the form INSIDE the locked case. a few other things....remember to sign and date the form and hand it back to the ticket agent to place properly....never place the form in the location yourself...travel with a firearm in checked baggage or as checked baggage is easy but the mistakes can be costly, both to the passenger and to the aircraft operator....having never had a problem with a procedure does not mean the procedure is proper....again...do not allow the ticket agent to place the form inside a locked container if that locked container is inside another piece of checked baggage. the form MUST be placed inside the checked baggage near the locked case and NOT INSIDE THE LOCKED CASE. trust me.

[juissed]

Originally posted by ioema
do not allow the ticket agent to place the form inside the locked case that contains the firearm IF that locked case is inside another piece of checked baggage. the form MUST be placed inside the checked baggage near the locked case and NOT INSIDE THE LOCKED CASE. if the locked case is ITSELF THE CHECKED BAGGAGE (for example, a rifle case that is not inside another piece of checked baggage) then allow the ticket agent to place the form INSIDE the locked case. a few other things....remember to sign and date the form and hand it back to the ticket agent to place properly....never place the form in the location yourself...travel with a firearm in checked baggage or as checked baggage is easy but the mistakes can be costly, both to the passenger and to the aircraft operator....having never had a problem with a procedure does not mean the procedure is proper....again...do not allow the ticket agent to place the form inside a locked container if that locked container is inside another piece of checked baggage. the form MUST be placed inside the checked baggage near the locked case and NOT INSIDE THE LOCKED CASE. trust me.


Bad experience with the form being in the wrong spot?

[DeltaCharlie]

Wow, this is one of the many questions I've been wondering about and finally logged on to ask. That was easy.


Thanks!

[Raoul Duke]

Originally posted by Glocks&Ducs
Same thing in Chicago.

No doubt. No matter where you decide to go make sure you know the local firearms laws BEFORE you try and take a gun through an airport. In New York City if you bring a locked, unloaded handgun to the check in desk and declare you have a gun they will call the police and you will be arrested if you don't have a New York City pistol permit. Doesn't matter if you live in NY or not and are just traveling through.

[Ryobi]

I've had no problems flying armed for duty, or checking my weapon, except for on instance at Reagan International. In that case, a supervisor took care of the problem when I told Jabba-The-Hut the TSA tard that he wouldn't be looking in my bag, but that I might let his supervisor.

[kensteele]

Originally posted by PursuitFRC
Demonstrate empty? Where do they have you do this? Right in front of the other 100 passengers waiting in line?

Absolutely. And it was embarassing....a riot shotgun and a black AR-15. So I've learned my lesson and I disassemble my firearms so if asked, I can pull out the "receiver only". I also install gun locks thru the chamber and open action. Never again will I raise a mossberg 12ga to the counter in a crowded airport for other passengers and police standing around to see. Hadn't a problem before but this time they insisted (didn't want to touch my weapons, didn't want to peer inside case), I had no choice coming back on the round trip leg. Am I going overboard, overcautious....perhaps.

[kensteele]

Originally posted by ioema
do not allow the ticket agent to place the form inside the locked case that contains the firearm IF that locked case is inside another piece of checked baggage. the form MUST be placed inside the checked baggage near the locked case and NOT INSIDE THE LOCKED CASE. if the locked case is ITSELF THE CHECKED BAGGAGE (for example, a rifle case that is not inside another piece of checked baggage) then allow the ticket agent to place the form INSIDE the locked case. a few other things....remember to sign and date the form and hand it back to the ticket agent to place properly....never place the form in the location yourself...travel with a firearm in checked baggage or as checked baggage is easy but the mistakes can be costly, both to the passenger and to the aircraft operator....having never had a problem with a procedure does not mean the procedure is proper....again...do not allow the ticket agent to place the form inside a locked container if that locked container is inside another piece of checked baggage. the form MUST be placed inside the checked baggage near the locked case and NOT INSIDE THE LOCKED CASE. trust me.

So I've never had this problem before, the tag can be placed in either location and it has varied from flight to flight. I'd always wonder myself because I often have the pistol case inside a larger case and now that I've decided to no longer travel with visible rifle cases (will breakdown in smaller cases and place within), my solution has been to grab a handful of tags and place them in BOTH locations. Can't hurt. Over doing it, over cautious....perhaps.

[KyInvestigator]

As I have stated before....I travel often and ALWAYS have had the clerk state to put the firearm tag INSIDE the locked gun case. Makes no sense to me, but hey, it's their game. That double locked case is placed inside my checked bag which has a strap/lock outside the case with a TSA approved combo lock which is only used in an attempt to keep my somewhat aging bag together until I can convince myself to buy another one.

NEVER had a demonstrable problem with the singular exception of a TSA agent that wanted me to remove the case and firearm for HIM to inspect. I declined and suggested he call a supervisor as he was asking me to do something that I understand to be illegal....once the weapon is in my bag and locked down, the only time it is to be handled and removed is at the end of the flight by ME.

Trust me....tag in gun case and locked...place inside checked bag and go enjoy your flight.

[Inverness11]

Heh, I just emailed Delta not to long ago asking for a list of approved pistol cases. I got back a link to the TSA website which told me to contact my airline...:upeyes:

[RussP]

My last trip on Delta roundtrip from RIC to HOU I carried three handguns in Life Guard gun locks.
http://www.fototime.com/28E3D2FF4B39F8A/standard.jpg

I carried 16 loaded mags in Bagmaster mag pouches like this...
http://www.bagmaster.com/website/cart/images/products/MP6_Web.jpg

TSA rules changed allowing loaded mags when carried in pouches enclosing the open end of the mag.

It took a bit of education of the TSA agent in Richmond, the Delta agent was very helpful.

Houston-Hobby was a bit more difficult with the mag pouches due to some entrenched Delta agents, but a supervisor took it up with TSA and they signed off on them quickly.

Do carry a copy of the TSA page on firearms...dead accurate proof.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

Here is the section allowing loaded mags in pouches...
You can’t use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard). Have fun :thumbsup:

[MontanaBighorn]

Originally posted by RussP
TSA rules changed allowing loaded mags when carried in pouches enclosing the open end of the mag.

<SNIP>

Do carry a copy of the TSA page on firearms...dead accurate proof.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtmawesome information, thanks.

[RussP]

Originally posted by MontanaBighorn
awesome information, thanks. :thumbsup:

[South Fla]

Should we get a sticky for this thread?

[G21-Shrew]

A lot of good info in this thread and it should be a sticky IMO.


One thing that is not right is the location of the tag post. The only requirement is that it is with the locked firearm, if the case is the only luggage then the requirement is that it be inside, that is it. If its in another bag then it can either be in the case itself or by it in the luggage.

If you do not KNOW the rules then do not spout off as if you do. Though little harm can come from someone following your post I would prefer that those who do know the rules be the ones to provide correct information or correct misinformation that might be contained in someones experience. I will agree that sometimes things are done differently for an unknown reason at airports and some airlines or employees seem to make up their own rules. Obey what is posted on TSA's website at the minimum and follow what the airlines have posted on their website and you should do just fine. Also do look into the laws of the state or locality that you are flying into to make sure everything will be fine once you arrive, but you all did that before you left right?

Have a safe flight everyone.

[freakshow10mm]

*sniff, sniff* Smell that, Rabbit? Yeah. STICKY!!!

[cjlandry]

I tried carrying mags in pouches once (I brought factory ammo boxes just in case). I got the third degree about it, and continual insistence from the ticket agent and the TSA guys (who are within arms reach of the counter), so I caved and put 'em in "the original factory boxes", inside the pistol case with pistols and empty magazines. Of course, I put carry ammo in WWB FMJ boxes, so I can carry the full 50 rounds, rather than a couple boxes of 20.

I've traveled with them like this since then, without any troubles.

I believe there's one airline that requires the guns and ammo be in separate locked cases, but I've never encountered it.

[ioema]

don't mean to go on, G21-Shrew, but the aircraft operator MUST place the declaration form, if they issue one, in the baggage that carries your locked, hard-sided case proximate but not in the locked hard-sided case. trust me. just because the operator may place the tag in your gun case and nothing has happened does not make it legal. do it your way and civil enforcement could result in thousands in fines to you and tens of thousands to the operator. trust me. really.

[Nosmik]

ioema,
No offence but your post sounds like you are telling someone "that blue wall is yellow, trust me"

Please explain why it is illegal for the agent to put the paper inside the box?

I have traveled many times and that yellow paper was always placed inside the box.

[RussP]

Originally posted by freakshow10mm
*sniff, sniff* Smell that, Rabbit? Yeah. STICKY!!! http://www.disneyanaexchange.com/Photobin/Ale-Sos.Tar.jpgThat was good!


:cool:

[ioema]

no offense taken. In the interest of clear and precise information to my bretheren and sisteren here on glock talk, and without giving away the store....guidance to the aircraft operator tells them that if the locked hard-sided case containing the firearm is inside of another bag and that bag is checked, the declaration form must be placed proximate to but not inside the locked hard-sided case. i'm getting bored with this but will go on....if the hard-sided case containing the firearm is ITSELF the checked bag (not inside another bag) the declaration must be put inside the locked hard-sided case. the argument against this guidance is ludicrous....to say "i always do it this way and never got slapped" is meaningless and doesn't state the rule. admittedly, there's very little in my post to prve to an outsider that i am right but, again, trust me...that blue wall IS yellow.

[glock45acp21]

Originally posted by KyInvestigator
Yes...at the counter. All I have to do is to unlock the case the firearm is in and let them see that the cylinder or magwell is empty. I have had one savy guy ask me to demonstrate nothing in the chamber. They will then have the flyer sign a federally authorized form stating that the weapon is empty and put the form in the case and watch me lock it again.

Typically that ends things with me taking my bag to the screeners who do not seem interested that there is a firearm in the bag, however at Orlando I was escorted to the screener and asked to wait until they scanned the bag. Not sure of the rationale on this latter event as I have not had that happen before.

When my wife and I went to Orlando for our honeymoon, I didn't have a problem at all, everything got to where it needed to go.

I put my G21 in a locked hard side box with the slide back and with a gun lock through the barrel. I just declared it and showed it as empty. They also put the form in the locked box. I don't understand why inside, but it wasn't a problem. I also put my cellular phone number on the box so someone could get a hold of me, just in case. I also had the gun in box in piece of baggage.

[Masque]

Originally posted by ioema
...guidance to the aircraft operator tells them that if the locked hard-sided case containing the firearm is inside of another bag and that bag is checked, the declaration form must be placed proximate to but not inside the locked hard-sided case.... Where is this "guidance" found?

[RussP]

Originally posted by Masque
Where is this "guidance" found? Check the airlines website before you fly. They have a habit of changing rules.

[Raoul Duke]

Originally posted by RussP
Check the airlines website before you fly. They have a habit of changing rules.

Don't just check the Airlines websites. Check the local, state and federal laws as well. In some cities, New York for example, federal law doesn't apply. They have their own set of laws and if you get get caught violating THEIR laws, whether or not you are in compliance with federal law, you are screwed.

[G21-Shrew]

Originally posted by ioema
no offense taken. In the interest of clear and precise information to my bretheren and sisteren here on glock talk, and without giving away the store....guidance to the aircraft operator tells them that if the locked hard-sided case containing the firearm is inside of another bag and that bag is checked, the declaration form must be placed proximate to but not inside the locked hard-sided case. i'm getting bored with this but will go on....if the hard-sided case containing the firearm is ITSELF the checked bag (not inside another bag) the declaration must be put inside the locked hard-sided case. the argument against this guidance is ludicrous....to say "i always do it this way and never got slapped" is meaningless and doesn't state the rule. admittedly, there's very little in my post to prve to an outsider that i am right but, again, trust me...that blue wall IS yellow.

Sorry for the late response. I have been pretty busy lately. Anyways I would have rather hashed this out through PM's or e-mail but since that option does not seem to exist for you I will have to do it this way. Your profile seems to imply that you perhaps work for TSA or just DHS as you do list DHS.gov as your website.

I Do work for TSA out of SeaTac at the moment and would have to disagree with you on the basis of what you have stated in regard to what is required of us, TSA, when the notification is performed. As you alluded a paper declaration is not even a requirement and there are a few airlines that do a verbal one. But in the case of a written declaration, there is NO requirement that it not be inside the case if said case is located within a piece of luggage.

Either learn the actual Regs or keep quiet. I have posted this information several times on this and other forums in the past. I want all persons traveling with a firearm to do so in the best manner possible and well within the regs. I have seen, and corrected, many others on the acceptability of means of transport. The requirements from TSA are quite clear, though the airlines may impose any regulation they like so long as it is not less strict then the TSA/FAA.

I have asked time and time again for people to not perpetuate misinformation in a public forum like this. Its bad enough that people draw their own conclusions and that sometimes, a person with a distaste for our choice of luggage, will make things more difficult at the time of check-in.

If you wish to speak with me further about this please either post here or respond, I have my email listed in my profile if you wish, or you may PM me.

Thank you.

[SARDG]

Originally posted by G21-Shrew
I have asked time and time again for people to not perpetuate misinformation in a public forum like this.
Hey, thanks Shrew. All that the other posters asked of iomea was a cite showing where he got his info. So far - nothing forthcoming...

[Masque]

Originally posted by RussP
Check the airlines website before you fly. They have a habit of changing rules. The "guidance" cited was supposedly provided to the airlines. I'm quite familiar with finding the guidance from the airlines. :)

[xdfan]

Originally posted by kensteele
So I've never had this problem before, the tag can be placed in either location and it has varied from flight to flight. I'd always wonder myself because I often have the pistol case inside a larger case and now that I've decided to no longer travel with visible rifle cases (will breakdown in smaller cases and place within), my solution has been to grab a handful of tags and place them in BOTH locations. Can't hurt. Over doing it, over cautious....perhaps.

I flown with my pistol for over 15 years. The FIREARM tag used to be placed on the outside of the suitcase. Then the airlines figured out the thieves were using the tags to identify which bags to steal. The same logic applies to putting the tag on the inside of the locked case which is inside of your UNLOCKED suitcase. If you think the guys that open your bags won't steal your gun you are either a)nuts or b)naive.
The tag goes inside the locked box to prove that the airline clerk inspected the gun to be sure it is unloaded, and the case is locked.

I have only had the TSA ask me to open the locked case once,even though Delta had already inspected same. The terror level was elevated at the time and it did not bother me at all. Most of the airline clerks don't know what to do when you declare a firearm. I always tell them it's no different than a set of golf clubs. You don't fly to Florida to play golf and then buy your clubs, the same logic applies to your guns. I always tell them I am going hunting and don't intend to buy a new gun every time I travel.

[South Fla]

I flew Northwest the other day from Tampa to Minneapolis with my G17.

I declared the pistol at the counter and signed the orange tag. The lady wanted to mae sure that the pistol was unloaded, made sure it was in a lockable hard-sided case and in a lockable piece of baggage.

All was good up till this point. She insisted that the tag went inside the Glock case with the pistol. I told her it didn't because if it needed to be inspected by the TSA, I didn't want the locks cut off. but she kept insisting it went inside the box. I said OK and locked the box with the tag inside.

She took the bag and we walked over to the restricted TSA area where she told the TSA guy that the gun was OK and the tag was inside the box. The TSA guy lectured her as easily as he could about the tag needed to be outside the box but close in the luggage.

I told him the gun was unloaded, had a lockthrough the magwell and the chamber and the case was locked and the luggage piece was locked. He took the bag, put it through the x-ray, came back in a few minutes and said it was good to go.

My other piece of luggage with my earmuffs, holsters, shooting glasses and my range bags were "inspected" by the TSA too. I found their little card in that bag when I got home.

[ioema]

wow...glad i checked back...sorry for the delay....sea-tac, are you a screener? anyway, because of rules governing SSI, I will not cite specific wording of the program that governs flying with firearms in checked baggage. I know the regs and the security programs. I won't restate what I've already declared (pun) and you all can do it anyway you want, as most people do in their life. there is a lot of good info in this thread without me using it to point out ignorance and blustering. this forum isn't for me to talk about my work, either. happy flying.

[SARDG]

Originally posted by ioema
wow...glad i checked back...anyway, because of rules governing SSI, I will not cite specific wording of the program that governs flying with firearms in checked baggage. I know the regs and the security programs.
Okay ioema, I'm intrigued. If in fact the "rules" governing some aspects of flying with firearms are SSI, the general public would not be privy to them - therefore, how could the general public ever know what rules to play by. When we (USCG) have SSI documents containing some sensitive information, but also containing other information important to the public, we release a non-SSI version. It is not possible to make rules for governing the public's conduct without telling the public what the rules are.

At any rate, SSI is a non-classification brought forth by DHS due to lack of other significant "controls" over miscellaneous documents. Or I should say because legally, DHS couldn't assign actual classifications to some low-level docs.

SARDoG
U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary
U.S. Department of Homeland Security

[kensteele]

if you go to a particular place out of state very frequently, what i have done is setup a mailbox, like at the ups store. for about $120/yr, you can have your own mailing street address in another state.

otherwise if it is a one-time deal, you can send your equipment to the nearest ups facility and have them "hold for pickup." you get the tracking number and when you arrive, you drive to the facility, show your id, off you go with your box. i do this for ammo because i can't deal with the 11 lb. airline rule. ups will hold your box for at least a week.

but i suppose ups can lose your shipment just like the airline can lose your luggage lol.

i have a very unorthodox method i use to ensure that my important luggage does NOT get lost at the airlines. it is not 100% and it will not guard against luggage that is destroyed intransit or leaves the country (canada, mexico, very rural areas), but it is very effective and mostly inexpensive (for me). if anyone is curious, let me know....but you can't laugh. :) Send me a PM and I'll reply.

[ebigfish]

Originally posted by kensteele i have a very unorthodox method ... if anyone is curious, let me know....but you can't laugh. :) [/B]


ok I won't laugh... what is it????!!!!

;)

[doc540]

Is this the appropriate forum to share a story about how I ended up standing in a Houston airport (as in "inside a secured area) a with an undeclared, loaded handgun in my luggage and concerned that the noise coming from my knocking knees would sound an alert?

It might save someone from a heart attack.


:shocked:

[SARDG]

Originally posted by doc540
Is this the appropriate forum to share a story about how I ended up standing in a Houston airport (as in "inside a secured area) a with an undeclared, loaded handgun... :shocked:

Sure... watcha got? We all love to live vicariously... :hugs:

[doc540]

Well, here goes:

I started carrying concealed back in the early 80's when I owned and operated my first business. CC just became a way of life. After I downsized (due to my job environment) to the NAA mini in a folding handle, I flew back and forth from Houston to San Diego many times with it either tucked away in my checked baggage or officially declared and checked at the counter.

I'd wrap it in a small piece of foil and jam it under a metal shoe tree inside a pair of shoes. My reasoning was an xray would pick up the full cover of the shoe tree toe and hide the outline of the pistol.

I realize "tucking" instead of "declaring" was a violation of the law, but tucked it many times with no problems. And this was long before security/xray/imaging became the norm.

Late for my flight to Myrtle Beach, SC, (excuses, excuses) I tucked it again instead of declaring it at the counter. Conscious, willful, error in judgment for which I take FULL responsibility.

There's a short, 90 mile commuter hop from my hometown to Houston. I luggage checked my zipped and locked (and loaded) suitcase and waited to board the commuter propjet with no carryon luggage.

I watched as they loaded my bag in the tail luggage compartment and boarded for Houston.

Then the rain came, SE Texas deluge rain, puddle on the tarmack over your shoe tips rain, a mild flash flood rain.

When I exited the commuter hopper at Houston Intercontinental it was pouring, so I put a USA Today over my head and sprinted for the safety of the main terminal (no bus ride necessary, we were close).

As I stepped under the terminal overhang, someone called to me and said, "SIR! Is this your bag?". I turned to look as a baggage handler handed me my checked bag. (first big gulp)

The rain and/or handling had caused the "checked" tag to come off. As he handed it to me I tried to hand it back and said, "but this has to be checked and not carried on" without sounding or looking like Barney Fife. He replied, "No problem, just check it again inside", and sprinted away.

So, there I am with a mild adrenanline taser shock going through my reptilian brain with this message: "THEY DIDN'T CUT BARRY SWITZER ANY SLACK AND HE WAS THE HEAD COACH OF THE DALLAS COWBOYS. WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY'RE GONNA DO TO YOU, NUMBNUTZ?"

That's when the peristaltic action started to kick in. Funny how the brain and body prioritize things, isn't it. My first order of business was "do not crap pants".

continued

[doc540]

Decision Time

From my position outside terminal "B" I didn't know if I'd have to pass through a second security check or not. So, I stood there to collect my thoughts and control my breathing.

I problem-solved to three courses of action:

1. Find the first authority avaialable, come clean, explain what happened, and face the consequences.
2. If no additional security check loomed ahead of me, re-check the bag.
3. Enter a bathroom stall, wrap the minigun in numerous towels, wet them or soil them enough so no one would want to touch them (utilize all the peristaltic action?) and shove the gun deeply into a garbage can. Its $200 cost suddenly seemed insignificant.

First task: walk through the glass doors

I passed hurdle #1 when I saw no 2nd security check faced me. I chose option one to "come clean", and looked around for the highest airline authority I could find, approached an obvious candidate and said, "Are you a supervisor". He replied, "Yes, I am. How may I help you.? I began to explain, "My checked tag came off this bag..." but he interrupted me and replied, "No problem, just take it to your departure gate, and they'll be glad to re-check it for you there". And he turned and walked away.

So, I extended the handle and trundled this hot little package ALL the way to my boarding gate and sat down to think some more. And I needed some water for a really serious case of cotton mouth.

Continued

[doc540]

I had about 20 minutes until boarding time, so I tried to remain calm and think clearly. I thought it would be better to have an unloaded handgun if it was found by security or airline personnel, so I found an isolated seat, put the bag on my lap, and proceeded to discreetly unlock, unzip, and unload the Mini without anyone noticing. Using a portion of plan #3, I wrapped the Stingers in wet hand towels and dropped them in a garbage can.

10 minutes to boarding, and it's decision time.

I wait until the check-in staff is busy, stand in line, and calmly explain my checked tag had come off, and I was told I could check it here at the gate.

The attendant didn't miss a beat, put a tag on the bag and set it aside. She also told me someone would retrieve it and make sure it was loaded with the other baggage.

I sat back down and, sure enough, a ramp attendant got my bag and disappeared down the mobile entrance hall.

I was feeling a MUCH better by now. But there was one more pucker shot awaiting me when I walked down the ramp to board.

Sitting right there by the door of the plane (in that "rotunda" area) was my bag big as Barry Switzer and Dallas! I thought, "Oh, my god, they're going to bring it into the passenger compartment after all!"

I found my seat and out of the window saw someone carrying it across the tarmac to load with the rest of the baggage.

I ordered two Crown Royal's and one water, put on my earphones and cranked up "Best of the Doors". I'd dodged my own stupid bullet.

Needless to say, I checked the gun on the flight back and have checked one every time I've flown with one since.

Hard lesson learned, but it could have been much, much harder.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/doc540/Misc/18abbfad.jpg

[tlish]

where can i get a tsa approved lock, and how will i know it's tsa approved?

[Nosmik]

Originally posted by tlish
where can i get a tsa approved lock, and how will i know it's tsa approved?

They are usually labeled. I have seen them at wally world.

[tlish]

thanks! which department are they in? i looked in sporting goods, but couldn't think of where else they'd be....

[Nosmik]

They are between sporting goods and electronics. Luggage/backpack area.

[360]

Just flew with the G26 these past days...both times, when checking baggage, the agent placed the tag INSIDE the steel LifeJacket case I was using, and both times, NEITHER airline agent inspected the weapon. It could have been loaded and had one in the chamber, and they never even bothered to look at it, although I assume I would have caught hell from the TSA guys when they put it through the Atomic Particle Accelerator Xray Screener Device that makes most people sterile...

[VirginiaLEO83]

I've got a Pelican case that I use for firearms, does anyone see an issue with just locking the gun in the pelican case and checking it as is? The case is too big to stuff into another suitcase.

[SARDG]

Originally posted by VirginiaLEO83
...does anyone see an issue with just locking the gun in the pelican case and checking it as is?
TSA has nothing against that but you better check with your specific carrier. The airline's website seems better than calling as the agents on the phone typically don't know airline policy regarding firearms.

[Six Feet Under]

I flew from Tampa to Louisville last fall to go hunting with my uncle in northern Kentucky. This trip being my first time driving to the airport on my own, first time flying with my rifle, and the first time I had flown alone since I was ten years old, I was a little apprehensive. My Mom & Dad called the airline and the TSA both to make sure I would encounter no problems because I was only 17 and carrying a rifle with me. Both representatives assured me I would be fine, and I didn't have to be 18 years old to fly with my rifle.

So I get to the airport, and ride the trolley all the way around the complex through all the parking garages, because of course, the main check-in area is the last stop before the parking garage I was in. LOL. I got to the main check-in area, told the lady at the counter that I needed to check a firearm. She asked me to open the case and tried to make it as discreet as possible so that the other customers wouldn't see that I had a firearm. I greatly appreciated this because I didn't feel like causing any problems or fear (for whatever reason the sight of a gun alone would do that...) with the people standing behind me.

The whole process goes through without a hitch, she puts the paper inside the case, I take it to the little TSA area, and give it to them. They run it through the x-ray machine and tell me I'm good to go. When I get to Louisville, the security folks take the rifle case to the office right next to the baggage claim area. My uncle picked it up with no ID whatsoever (kind of scary) and we were on our way.

I visited some family in Nashville before I left and when I got to Nashville it took an extra thirty minutes to check my rifle compared to the five minutes it took at Tampa International. The guy behind the counter made me clear the gun about five times before he was satisfied, as if it would load itself magically once I closed the chamber. They had to swab the case for explosive residue which of course came back positive (gunpowder, I used the case as a rest for the test shot I had to take at camp when I got up there and realized they broke my scope, LOL), which I'm sure added a few more minutes to the process.

Overall, no problems except a small time delay in Nashville. I was flying Southwest in case you were wondering.

[SARDG]

Originally posted by Six Feet Under
I flew from Tampa to Louisville last fall to go hunting ...I got to the main check-in area, told the lady at the counter that I needed to check a firearm. She asked me to open the case and tried to make it as discreet as possible... I greatly appreciated this...

The whole process goes through without a hitch, she puts the paper inside the case, I take it to the little TSA area, and give it to them. They run it through the x-ray machine and tell me I'm good to go. ...I was flying Southwest in case you were wondering.
Tampa's where I fly out of (generally). They really seem to have their act together. Usually AA, but I think I've flown SWA as well.

[Six Feet Under]

Originally posted by SARDG
Tampa's where I fly out of (generally). They really seem to have their act together. Usually AA, but I think I've flown SWA as well.

I don't fly that often but when I do I always try to make it out of Tampa. Orlando is about the same distance and travel time but Tampa is more organized and easier to find your way around in.

[South Fla]

Originally posted by SARDG
Tampa's where I fly out of (generally). They really seem to have their act together. Usually AA, but I think I've flown SWA as well.

I have flown out of Tampa on:

United
Lufthansa
Southwest
Delta
Northwest
American

And never had a problem flying out of TIA with a firearm.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I was flying from Harrisburg PA to San Antonio on Northwest. I had three handguns in a nice gun case. They went to Minneapolis.

Why? Two NWA employees at SATX said it was because if the plane was unbalanced they take the guns off first and put them on another plane because they are dangerous.

Discuss among yourselves!

:shocked:

Got them the next day and the case was treated quite roughly, jostling the guns around. Never happened before with the same case on numerous other trips.

[SARDG]

Originally posted by Glenn E. Meyer
...I had three handguns in a nice gun case. They went to Minneapolis.

Why? Two NWA employees at SATX said it was because if the plane was unbalanced they take the guns off first and put them on another plane because they are dangerous. :shocked:
If the plane was so "unbalanced" (whatever that means), why are they flying in the first place?

On so many levels, this is the most senseless thing I've ever heard regarding "firearm flights".

Are you certain that is what they said?

[Carnes]

More curious than anything... I suspect that international travel with a firearm would be a major hassle at best... but since I do a bit of traveling, and since I am a curious Glocker...

Does anyone know about, or could they direct me to regulations regarding taking firearms on international flights; say perhaps USA to France?

[erkme73]

Originally posted by Glenn E. Meyer
I was flying ... on Northwest.

That's your only mistake. Northworst deserves to be eliminated.

[tlish]

i successfully flew with my pistol for the first time - it was very easy and painless! i sign the orange tag that says it's unloaded, they see that it is, put the tag in the pistol, lock it up, and i'm off!

[jsherman]

thanks for all the information in this thread. bout to take a trip and i'm taking g23 with me...

flying out of tampa - which sounds like all will be well.

[Six Feet Under]

You shouldn't have an issue, unless you happen to get a person behind the desk with a bad attitude.

[jsherman]

purchased one of the secure-it handgun safes to pack in my suitcase.
i've talked with several others from the tampa area that have flown out of tampa. they say it is friendly, usually you have to worry about flying back to tampa...I should be good to go..
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZDMYCDHGL._AA280_.jpg

[Six Feet Under]

Originally posted by jsherman
purchased one of the secure-it handgun safes to pack in my suitcase.
i've talked with several others from the tampa area that have flown out of tampa. they say it is friendly, usually you have to worry about flying back to tampa...I should be good to go..
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZDMYCDHGL._AA280_.jpg

I was actually looking at those and was surprised that the medium one is only $29.99 or something similar. I'm thinking about getting one for my car.

[Dryanta]

I just flew with a checked firearm this last weekend. On Fri, OAK to SEA to GEG, and on Sun GEG to SEA to OAK. On the first leg in Oakland, I went up to the counter (Alaska) and he took me to the TSA x-ray screener guy. He ran it through, and I was on my way. I thought it would be a huge deal, but the TSA guy said it happens all the time. Net time, 5 minutes > than it would have been without a pistol. I even had time to go get sloshed at the bar before my flight! :banana: :banana: :banana:

So, when I get to Spokane at 12:30am, I hang out waiting for my bag in the claim area. It appears they lost everyone on the flight's luggage somewhere in Hawaii. That kind of bothered me that they did not know where my pistol was, and I did not get it back until Sunday afternoon.

On the way back from Spokane, the TSA guy took me back in a room and physically inspected it, unlocked the case, validated it was empty. He was a really cool guy who seemed he knew what he was doing. I noticed his gun handling, so we started talking about guns (he has a sig he really likes) and he was really nice to my 2yo even though he was touching everything. Net time on that one, 20 minutes > than not checking a pistol. Again, I still had time to go get drinks!

My first experience flying with my pistol is not too bad at all! :thumbsup:

[SARDG]

Originally posted by Dryanta
I even had time to go get sloshed at the bar before my flight! :banana: :banana: :banana:
Well, at least your gun was checked first. ;)

[barmen9122]

Originally posted by Six Feet Under
I was actually looking at those and was surprised that the medium one is only $29.99 or something similar. I'm thinking about getting one for my car.

Let me in on where one finds this type of safe. I've only checked a few places around the Clearwater, Florida area but have yet to find one I like. This looks pretty darn good to me.

[Newgun]

-

[donnyt01]

Anyone know if an American Citizen can transport / carry a handgun in the Phillipeans?

Getting ready to head over there to testify in a court case against my father in law who isn't too happy about it.

I'm sure there would be a stack of forms to fill out, but if it's not possible there's no use getting my name on a watch list by calling the embassy and asking.

D

[Kernellinux]

I'm actually going to NYC on the 30th. I read a comment about it being strict. Has anyone had an actual experience with NYC and fireamrs.

[Thorazine]

Tampa International (US Airways).
Connected to Charlotte, NC.
Then Harrisburg, PA.

Ticket agent gave me the form to fill out to carry on the plane. =/

When I advised the agent he supplied the wrong form he went around shouting to his co-workers "I need a form for a firearm". =(

Although once everything was sorted out they did allow me to step behind the secured area (TSA operated) and demonstrate unloaded in a very private setting.

Waited in that area while they ran the bag through X-RAY (locked firearm with the tag put inside the locked case).

No problems there after.

[toyamabarnard]

Originally posted by jsherman
thanks for all the information in this thread. bout to take a trip and i'm taking g23 with me...

flying out of tampa - which sounds like all will be well.

I'm getting ready to fly out of Tampa with G23 in a couple weeks.... I was very happy to see this thread.


I'm actually going to NYC on the 30th. I read a comment about it being strict. Has anyone had an actual experience with NYC and fireamrs.

When I worked for the PD and was taking a trip to NY I called to ask them about reciprical carry and was told flatly by a patrolman and a sargeant "Don't bring your gun to NY, not even in your trunk unloaded. If you don't live here and you have a gun here we'll lock you up." There was no question in my mind, they do not care who you are or why you have it, you will go to jail.

[Minuteman]

The process has been different each time I have done it, and very differnt procedures in different airports.

Basically you get checked twice, and the first one doesn't count.


First, the counter girl is supposed to ask if it's unloaded and make you sign a decleration that it is unloaded, so her asking is kind of moot. I like to put a cable lock thru the action to prove it's unloaded and screw would-be thieves.

Then after you've checked it, TSA x-rays it to see if it's unloaded. The TSA agent frequently interprets the rules differently than the counter girl.


Biggest piece of advice I can give is to print out the TSA rules, the Airlines Contract of Carriage rules and the FAA rules. You need to know them all, becuase no one you encounter will. They frequently make up new rulse on the spot.
The first page of the CoC rules says something like "no employee may verbally alter the Contract of Carriage".

[Minuteman]

Originally posted by Kernellinux
I'm actually going to NYC on the 30th. I read a comment about it being strict. Has anyone had an actual experience with NYC and fireamrs.


The airline and TSA will happily let you check your firearm to NYC.

When you pick up your luggage, in NYC, there will be two NYPD officers standing there to arrest you for illegal possesion of a firearm in NYC and illegal interstate gun trafficing.

You are now a felon.

They love it when people tell them where to look for illegal guns.


:patriot:

[rugerjay_82]

I have two regular ace hardware padlocks for the pistol case and a tsa approved master lock for the luggage I'm carrying the case in, should I be good to go?

[SIGShooter]

FYI




A change to the TSA SOPs have taken place 4 Aug 2007.

[rugerjay_82]

What are the tsa changes? if you don't mind sharing the info!

[SIGShooter]

Give me a couple of days, I'm not at home right now. I'll get what I can.

[Bozz]

Originally posted by Kernellinux
I'm actually going to NYC on the 30th. I read a comment about it being strict. Has anyone had an actual experience with NYC and fireamrs.

If you want Bubba as a roommate, take a gun to New York! Seriously though... he will be your roommate.

And to think that Giuliani is running for President... we better hang on tight to our NRA cards if he gets in office. He is as anti-gun as they come! Overall, I thought he was great til I found out about his stance on guns, and the role he played in NY of getting them outlawed.


Bozz

[rugerjay_82]

That's one thing I forgot to ask; do you have to be a member of the nra to be able to fly with a firearm?

[SARDG]

Originally posted by rugerjay_82
That's one thing I forgot to ask; do you have to be a member of the nra to be able to fly with a firearm? You're kidding - right? The NRA is the great and powerful Oz - but not that powerful.

You only would have to be legally able to own a gun, to be able to possess and transport it - but the airlines wouldn't know if you are not. You don't need a CCW or any other related document. A lot of competition (only) shooters transport their firearm in their checked luggage.

[justinb]

Has anyone run into an Airline that flat out refuses to let you transport a firearm? I am flying USA3000 in a week and a half but everything I can find points to them saying no guns on their aircraft.

If this turns out to be true I will be bummed because $49+tax from MI to FL is a nice deal but I value my life a bit more than that.

[Minuteman]

Originally posted by justinb
Has anyone run into an Airline that flat out refuses to let you transport a firearm? I am flying USA3000 in a week and a half but everything I can find points to them saying no guns on their aircraft.

If this turns out to be true I will be bummed because $49+tax from MI to FL is a nice deal but I value my life a bit more than that.


As long as they have checked baggage they will check a firearm. All of the airlines have signs and warnings saying "No Firearms", but they mean on board the passenger areas, they don't mention checked baggage. They discourage it, but they don't ban it from checked luggage.

Find the "Contract of Carraige" for the airline. It should be online, or call and ask how you can read it yourself. In it will be the exact rules for checking firearms. If they do not mention firearms in the contract, then it defaults to the TSA/FAA rules on how to check firearms.

I have not heard of any airlines that refuse, except small puddle jumper planes that do not have a seperate area for checked luggage and of course they won't let you carry it on to the passenger area. That would be a violation of TSA rules.
MI to FL is not a puddle jumper plane.

:patriot:

[GlockAndSHPEELE]

Originally posted by Dryanta
....On the way back from Spokane, the TSA guy took me back in a room and physically inspected it, unlocked the case, validated it was empty. He was a really cool guy who seemed he knew what he was doing.

I noticed his gun handling, so we started talking about guns (he has a sig he really likes) and he was really nice to my 2yo even though he was touching everything.

He was touching your 2-year old? Touching everything? He would get a swift kick to the head and then some if he tried that on my daughter!

[GlockAndSHPEELE]

Originally posted by Carnes
More curious than anything... I suspect that international travel with a firearm would be a major hassle at best... but since I do a bit of traveling, and since I am a curious Glocker...

Does anyone know about, or could they direct me to regulations regarding taking firearms on international flights; say perhaps USA to France?

Yes,anyone on info for international travel to any country?????

[Minuteman]

Originally posted by GlockAndSHPEELE
Yes,anyone on info for international travel to any country?????


That's going to depend on the country. Basically the answer is NO. There are a few exceptions like hunting or for antique/collectalbe arms. Expect lots of paper work from the other country and to return the gun back to America.
Either you need to get an import license, hunting permit, etc.

I've heard some N European countries like Finland and Switzerland are pretty easy, not much trouble, but most others will not be.

:patriot:

[rugerjay_82]

I'm flying next week, does anyone know if the TSA firearms policy on their website is up to date?

[GlockAndSHPEELE]

Originally posted by Minuteman
That's going to depend on the country. Basically the answer is NO. There are a few exceptions like hunting or for antique/collectalbe arms. Expect lots of paper work from the other country and to return the gun back to America.
Either you need to get an import license, hunting permit, etc.

I've heard some N European countries like Finland and Switzerland are pretty easy, not much trouble, but most others will not be.

:patriot:

What about shipping firearms to residences in other country(s)? What is preferred usps, ups, fedex? And I assume that not EVERYTHING is checked, as we have sent numerous gifts (boxes and boxes and boxes full of electronics, toys, clothes, to and from the states.)?

[Minuteman]

Originally posted by GlockAndSHPEELE
What about shipping firearms to residences in other country(s)? What is preferred usps, ups, fedex? And I assume that not EVERYTHING is checked, as we have sent numerous gifts (boxes and boxes and boxes full of electronics, toys, clothes, to and from the states.)?

???

There are gun dealers here who specialize in selling guns overseas and have the propper export licenses. If you are legally allowed to recieve them, I have read it's not that complicated.

I hope your not suggesting dropping a gun in a fed ex box and hopping it's not inspected.??? Major felony from both countries. You will be prosecuted by both countries.

If your in japan, one of the most restrictive on earth for guns... what is your conviction rate there? I've read some judges have a 100% conviction rate. I think you would spend most of the rest of your life in prison.

International illegal gun trafficing is not a way to make freinds.

:patriot:

[GlockAndSHPEELE]

Oh so fedex is the answer;) thanks!


j/k

you cannot make blanket statements for me like that. not all countries are like that, and like every corrupt country things can be done legally through other channels (political and law enforcement) when they normally would otherwise be illegal, believe me. but that is not even what i am talking about.

yes japan is really strict, but politicians and many business men have guns (it is just the way it works--you have enough money and know people in high places, and you will not be hassled); it is corrupt in its own accepting way. this is a common way for many high business people.

anyway, trafficking or whatever you say (for the purpose of supplying people to commit crimes) is much different than someone using for personal protection, as most do here. the laws may not care about purpose, but dont judge me or anyone cuz of a written rule. that being said, you have no idea whether or not and to what extent i am able to do anything, so dont group me into any group please.

this is digressing but i dont like for example when people here feel high and mighty that they can carry and are ready to call someone a felony because it is written that way, in a particular location/state/or even location within a place normally allowed to carry.

some people here love to associate what is written as a law with a person's character/personality/moral standing if and they are technically not with the law. very many laws have been and continue to be bad. as much as some of you argue about it, it seems like sometimes you pick and choose when to be in your own little elitist world, even if 1 percent of the time. it is a natural right for someone to protect oneself. i dont care if you or 10 billion people disagree or if it is written all over the world to be against it.

you may say what i already know about what legislation thinks of it, but i dont care for any other judgements if at all any.

being black and sitting and doing this and that was against the law years ago(not any more) and many other things as well.

get the laws out of your head (in regards to having anything to do with the persons moral character or any other character) and see it for what it is. some chosen to make something a law. i had no decision in many of the laws. it just so happens that i follow some because they are in line with my thinking, and others dont even apply, and for the rest, i have a mind of my own.

that doesn't even speak for the volumes of laws that lawmakers and enforcers break every day and more frequently in my opinion than any other private citizen? who is anyone fooling? who just goes with it? i am not starting a revolution, but if anyone doesn't think that lawmakers, enforcers, etc. are not in fact the ones committing most of the lawbreakings, then one needs to seriously examine things again. that is why some make laws to begin with, so they can get away with things. if you dont understand that, then forget it.

i have no respect for the law just cuz it is written. i even have little respect for laws i agree with, for the fact that they mean little or nothing in terms of value, when many have and still do break them in the community which makes and enforces them. does that mean i am going against things. no. do i care what one thinks. no. at least im bold enough to say it. this will never change. i honestly dont see how any private citizen can have true respect for any laws as long as even a few (usually many more) in politics and law enforcement and lawmakers continue to break them. i dont go by the law for the sake of the law, generally. it just so happens that i do not break them.

papers dont rule my life as much as others. still yet, it is not saying that i break the law, just that it is screwed up many times, and enforcement or misenforcement of such certain laws are even more screwed up. people dont care much more often if something does not affect them.

so no i am not suggesting anything. i am asking. doesnt matter anyway.

[MX727]

Originally posted by barmen9122
Let me in on where one finds this type of safe. I've only checked a few places around the Clearwater, Florida area but have yet to find one I like. This looks pretty darn good to me.

http://www.center-of-mass.com/

I got the large for my G29 and spare mag. I cut the paddle off of my Fobus and keep it in the safe to guard the trigger.

[Carlitos]

Originally posted by justinb
Has anyone run into an Airline that flat out refuses to let you transport a firearm? I am flying USA3000 in a week and a half but everything I can find points to them saying no guns on their aircraft.

If this turns out to be true I will be bummed because $49+tax from MI to FL is a nice deal but I value my life a bit more than that.


Their website is contradictory:

From Prohibited list:

Weapons : Firearms, Ammunition, gunpowder, mace, tear-gas, pepper spray, etc.


BUT, then it says:

"There are certain exceptions for personal care, medical needs, sporting equipment, and items to support physically challenged passengers. "


BUT again it says:

"Firearms and Ammunition: may not be carried by a passenger on USA3000 Airlines. "

Thought I read of a guy on brianenos.com who was NOT allowed to check in a double barrel sporting clays shotgun in a TSA approved checked-in suitcase. USA3000 simply said: "leave it behind or you are not flying." Luckily his family drove him to the airport & could take the shotgun to their house for him.

I would call them before going to the airport.

[SIGShooter]

Originally posted by Carlitos
Their website is contradictory:

From Prohibited list:

Weapons : Firearms, Ammunition, gunpowder, mace, tear-gas, pepper spray, etc.


BUT, then it says:

"There are certain exceptions for personal care, medical needs, sporting equipment, and items to support physically challenged passengers. "


BUT again it says:

"Firearms and Ammunition: may not be carried by a passenger on USA3000 Airlines. "

Thought I read of a guy on brianenos.com who was NOT allowed to check in a double barrel sporting clays shotgun in a TSA approved checked-in suitcase. USA3000 simply said: "leave it behind or you are not flying." Luckily his family drove him to the airport & could take the shotgun to their house for him.

I would call them before going to the airport.




They cannot deny you your flight if you are within the mandated regulations. If they do...It is lawsuit city.

[SARDG]

Originally posted by SIGShooter
They cannot deny you your flight if you are within the mandated regulations. If they do...It is lawsuit city.
What do you do with your firearm while you're suing and waiting for a resolution? :sad: Better bring your family...

[ChromeBumper]

I was dreading having a very public "Jack Bauer Moment" at the airline counter when it came time to prove that my Glock 27 was unloaded prior to checking my bag. I cut some packing foam to securely hold the pieces of a dis-assembled Glock neatly into a 6- by 6-inch Brinks cash box. With one quick look, it is obvious to even an untrained observer that both the chamber and the magazine are empty. The approach had the desired affect on the airline counter guys at both ends of my recent trip: they both seemed relieved at being able to accomplish the verification task quickly and safely. The box never even left my suitcase while I flipped the top and showed it to them. I added a padlock because the Brinks box practically opens it self if you get near it with a screwdriver. The foam pops out, so the box can still be used to secure the assembled firearm otherwise. It's pretty easy to run the cable lock that came with the glock through the padlock and some internal structure in the suitcase. I also put my name, cell, and pager numbers on the outside of the box.

[Minuteman]

Originally posted by Carlitos
Their website is contradictory:

From Prohibited list:

Weapons : Firearms, Ammunition, gunpowder, mace, tear-gas, pepper spray, etc.


BUT, then it says:

"There are certain exceptions for personal care, medical needs, sporting equipment, and items to support physically challenged passengers. "


BUT again it says:

"Firearms and Ammunition: may not be carried by a passenger on USA3000 Airlines. "

Thought I read of a guy on brianenos.com who was NOT allowed to check in a double barrel sporting clays shotgun in a TSA approved checked-in suitcase. USA3000 simply said: "leave it behind or you are not flying." Luckily his family drove him to the airport & could take the shotgun to their house for him.

I would call them before going to the airport.

That had to be from a flight with no checked luggage like a puddle jumper, where all luggage is carried on. Even then, they can usually "check" firearms. Something is missing from that story. There is no such thing as a TSA approved case, so at least part of the story is BS right there.

Do not believe what they tell you on the phone or at the counter. Read the contract of carraige for yourself. That is the only thing that matters. Everything else is just hype.
I walk right past the big sign that says "NO FIREARMS" and check my firearms. No problem (except everyone who works at an airport is a retard)

[SIGShooter]

Originally posted by SARDG
What do you do with your firearm while you're suing and waiting for a resolution? :sad: Better bring your family...




The person to request on site would be the Federal Security Director (FSD). Again refer to my original post. They CANNOT deny you! As long as you are within regulations on the transporting of said firearm (s).


I have flown on just about every plane there is. I have yet to be on a plane that does not have accommodations for checked baggage. I work within the realm of the airlines. Trust me when I tell you people just don't get denied to check their weapons. I have never encountered anything of the sort. I do however read the reports of major incidents when a gun owner/CCWer lets loose with "I didn't know it was in my bag."

[SIGShooter]

As for the posted signs...


Remember, when you go to the check point it is a Federal Security Checkpoint. You cannot bring a weapon into the "sterile area" or anyone of the many "prohibited" items. When you read the signs of "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED or NO WEAPONS ALLOWED BEYOND THIS POINT" it is referring to your UNCHECKED/UNDECLARED weapons.


An example...


Joe Snuffy is a CCWer and decides to go pick his mom up while carrying. He is not permitted to go past the check point area with his CCW. He would not be permitted (While armed) in the airport if it is a violation of his law if it was a POSTED airport. (Yes they do exist)


However, if Joe Snuffy were checking his baggage in for a flight, that would be authorized as long as the firearm was DECLARED. This does not mean you can put your weapon in your carry on and proceed through the check point. It only goes in the checked baggage.

[NYC Drew]

I'll make a list, as this is quicker.


NYC:

1. You can fly in and out of NYC airports with handguns SO LONG AS YOU HAVE a NYS or NYC pistol permit or you are a LEO.

2. Flying IN to NYC is not the problem. Leaving with the gun is.

3. Airlines (when last I checked) can bar you from flying domestically with firearms.


'Drew

[DesertMan]

Does anyone know the rules on flying into Dulles Airport in Washington DC and out of Dulles Airport in washington dc with a firearm?

[DesertMan]

Nevermind found out its just like any other airport. Did find out new rule passed all you have to do is declare you have an unloaded weapon for check in and they dont have to take it out to verify according to continental and tsa rules here in MS.

[MeanKeene]

Originally posted by Raoul Duke
Just don't try it in New York City. Federal law and the US Constitution don't apply there.

haha aint it funny that the city that is considered the "gateway to freedom" is a place were federal law and the US constitution don't apply?

[DesertMan]

Well here I am in the land of the free but yet the second amendment doesnt apply.I flew in just fine with my G19 no problems and no worries. now carrying is a problem cause everywhere you go there is a no gun sticker. But anyway DC is great beside that and wow I didnt know they had a curfew here for awhile. Some lunatic was going around after dark shooting people.See another case for why the good guys should have guns to keep the bad guys at bay.Aw well more to come later guys..

[DesertMan]

Man getting out of Dulles International is a pain. I checked in and the Delta lady barely spoke English to me when I declared an unloaded firearm. After that I had to walk my bags to the TSA scanners. I told the TSA guy that I declared a weapon and hes liek goto the other side and wait for clearance to go. I was like ok and went around and waited. The other TSA guy scanned my bag forever it seemed like and I was like ok. He pulled my bags out and proceeded to check them. I told him need the key and he responded with Those are TSA locks we have the keys you can go ahead. So I left and something told me to come back. They went looking for me for the key to the weapon box. I came back and he was like, I didnt know you ment a key for the weapon. We were about to call airport police to get you. Well I told him I declared it to the ticket lady and to the TSA agent and he was like he didnt get informed and though I was checking in an undeclared weapon. The tag went into the weapons box both times to and from. Well he checked the box make sure there wasnt anything but weapons and magazine. Then he locked it up and gave me the keys and told me to wait he had to ask the Delta super if it was ok to carry loaded mags in the same weapons carrier. Told him here as I handed him the regs for Delta but he told me he had to ask them instead since each place is different. I was like whatever. He came back put my bags on conveyor and I was on my way to the plane. What a pain in the ass it is there...Just thought youd all like to know.

[ioema]

because i know (i'm sure this will kill some)

in the case of commercial air travel, the decision to accept a firearm for transport in checked baggage is entirely up to the aircraft operator but if they accept the responsibility, they must:


ensure the passenger declares, either in writing or verbally, the firearm as unloaded and being contained in a locked hard sided case with the passenger retaining the key to the lock. the proof of declaration must be signed and dated by the passenger and placed WITHIN the hard sided case by the aircraft operator if the case is self-contained (a case that is accepted as baggage not inside another piece of baggage).

ensure the passenger declares, either in writing or verbally, the firearm as unloaded and being contained in a locked hard sided case with the passenger retaining the key to the lock. the proof of declaration must be signed and dated by the passenger and placed PROXIMATE TO BUT NOT WITHIN the locked hard sided case by the aircraft operator if the case is contained within another piece of baggage.

i recommend NEVER using TSA locks on any hard-sided case containing a firearm.

any other way is against federal regulations governing the transport of firearms on commercial aircraft. the civil penalty to the aircraft operator for any deviation can be up to $25000 per occurence and an individual faces civil penalties up to $2000 plus possible criminal referral. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW YOU ALWAYS DO IT....the above is the way to do it and insist on when at an aircraft ticket counter.

the federal regulation governing the passenger's responsibility is 49cfr1540.111(c) and is publically accessible for reading. the federal regulation governing the aicraft operator's responsibility is 49cfr1544.203(f). the contents of the security program are not accessible to the public.

[Bozz]

Thanks ioema -- but I can tell you the 3 out of 4 times I've flown, the airline personnel instructed me to do it INCORRECTLY. They almost always have me put the declaration tag INSIDE the hard case and lock it.

What are we supposed to do? Argue with them if they don't believe they are wrong? I said something to the last one, and they insisted that it went inside the locked case. So, I complied -- being pretty sure that they were wrong.

Don't want to do the wrong thing, thats for sure.

Bozz

[ioema]

yeah...you probably did the right thing for your immediate needs but the ticket counter person was wrong...even tsa people, when they check your bag after you declare it, wanna stuff the declaration in the case and they should know better...flying home from colorado last month, i declared, went ot the tsa guy and he started by syaing "sir, you need to have your bag locked if you have a gun in here". i initially politely said that, no, the hardsided case needs locked but the bag doesn't. he insisted so i said "i do this all the time but if this is your local rule thats ok". he loudly said that this was enforced everywhere in the country and mumbled something about being a hothead. i showed him dhs credentials and a shield. he immediately radioed ( now, he was acting like an snl actor) for a tsa supervisor and two leo's. they showed up, i said look, if its some kind of local rule, i'll get a lock just tell me where. the leo's kept quiet but the supe insisted it was a national rule to lock your bag and pointed to a gift store in the terminal. i trudged over with my bags (tsa would not watch them) and was at the sale counter buying the locks when the supe ran over and said i didn't need to b uy the lock. the supe said he called x ray (whatever the heck that meant) and they said it was ok to leave the bag unlocked. i went back to the snl actor and he started to apologize in a dumb way and i cut him off saying " hey, that happens. i just wanna get home" and never said another word. this is FIVE YEARS after the rules came out. anyway, good luck and remember to unload, lock, keep the key and declare.

[SARDG]

Originally posted by ioema
...saying "sir, you need to have your bag locked if you have a gun in here". i initially politely said that, no, the hardsided case needs locked but the bag doesn't. he insisted so i said "i do this all the time but if this is your local rule thats ok".
So, why exactly would you want to leave your bag UNLOCKED? So a baggage handler could help themselves? So that a citizen or other TSA employee (along the way) could help themselves with little or no problem? The old adage "locks are for honest people", could help you out here.

I think I've asked you for more information concerning your "DHS" credentials in the past, but nothing was forthcoming. I'm "DHS" too, and check firearms on flights all the time. That, and one buck, may get me a cup of coffee on a good day. I certainly don't give any "lip" to the TSA folks.

[ioema]

oh cool!! a screener! there is NO REQUIREMENT TO LOCK YOUR BAG when transporting a firearm inside of it. whether the public wants to lock the bag or not is irrelevant to the issue that there is NO REQUIREMENT TO LOCK YOUR BAG when transporting a firearm inside of it. you have a better memory than me cause i think i've posted on Glock Talk under twenty times total but i don't remember your request to explain my credentials. bet you can't wait to get your new blue shirted uniform with YOUR shiny new badge. just don't use it to get girls in that stripper bar.

[ioema]

bozz...AWESOME PICTURE

[SARDG]

Originally posted by ioema
there is NO REQUIREMENT TO LOCK YOUR BAG when transporting a firearm inside of it. whether the public wants to lock the bag or not is irrelevant to the issue that there is NO REQUIREMENT TO LOCK YOUR BAG when transporting a firearm inside of it... ...you have a better memory than me cause i think i've posted on Glock Talk under twenty times total... ...bet you can't wait to get your new blue shirted uniform with YOUR shiny new badge. just don't use it to get girls in that stripper bar. Never said there was a requirement, but certainly implied it was foolish NOT to.

You've posted 55 times, to be exact... Go back to this thread on page 1 where you said "trust me", a couple of times and I and others questioned why we should. (Pages 1 & 2)

Well, I am a (straight) girl, so won't be trolling for one in a bar. ;)

The blue shirt part is correct - but it isn't new...

[ioema]

55 times!! whoa...thats alot...i'm not sure that's me but if you say so...anyway, strippers come in both genders but had i'd known you are a girl i wouldn't have been so flippant so i'm kind of sorry about that...and as for proof, go look up the regs for yourself...i wish "all dem people" who wanted proof could do that. but believe me, what i've said about flying with firearms is the ONLY truth to it....it is EXACTLY as i've laid it out...as for the blue shirt....ice, border or something? whatever it is....thanks for the service and be careful out there...

[Bozz]

Originally posted by SARDG
Never said there was a requirement, but certainly implied it was foolish NOT to.

You've posted 55 times, to be exact... Go back to this thread on page 1 where you said "trust me", a couple of times and I and others questioned why we should. (Pages 1 & 2)

Well, I am a (straight) girl, so won't be trolling for one in a bar. ;)

The blue shirt part is correct - but it isn't new...

This is certainly your opinion, however I have flown all around the WORLD and have NEVER, EVER locked my suitcase. Just a personal preference I guess, but I'd rather just have them open it and look around than cut my suitcase open to get past the lock ... so that I couldn't re-close it.

Your bashing of ioema who seems very knowledgable is very uncalled for... why don't you tell us all about YOUR credentials that allow you to call someone else out for them trying to state things that seem pretty factual... (seeing as they are quoted from CFR49).

Please enlighten us about your credentials, then maybe he'll answer you about his. :thumbsup:

Bozz

[sbob63]

If you check a gun in, get them to give you a copy of that FAA declaration to hold on your person.

My P7 somehow 'fell' out of a locked alluminun case in PHX, and the declaration was 'lost' as well.

They said I never did the declaration, but forwarded the gun to Dallas. Later I got an FAA leter stating that I needed to pay a $250 fine, or if I fought it, it would go up to, and get this $25,000. I am not kidding. Talking to the investigating agent, I needed to prove that I had filled out the declaration.

Fortunately, and this is almost 3 months after the fact, the ticket counter kept a copy of this, but they purge these every 90 days.

Got the copy, sent to the FEDS, dropped the case, no apologies of course..

GET A COPY and HAVE IT WITH YOU

[Bozz]

Originally posted by sbob63
If you check a gun in, get them to give you a copy of that FAA declaration to hold on your person.

My P7 somehow 'fell' out of a locked alluminun case in PHX, and the declaration was 'lost' as well.

They said I never did the declaration, but forwarded the gun to Dallas. Later I got an FAA leter stating that I needed to pay a $250 fine, or if I fought it, it would go up to, and get this $25,000. I am not kidding. Talking to the investigating agent, I needed to prove that I had filled out the declaration.

Fortunately, and this is almost 3 months after the fact, the ticket counter kept a copy of this, but they purge these every 90 days.

Got the copy, sent to the FEDS, dropped the case, no apologies of course..

GET A COPY and HAVE IT WITH YOU

Good advice, I was concerned the last time because I didn't get one... nor did the ticket agent fill out ANYTHING on it!

They're like a bunch of monkeys humpin' a football...

Bozz

[SARDG]

Originally posted by Bozz
This is certainly your opinion, however I have flown all around the WORLD and have NEVER, EVER locked my suitcase. Just a personal preference I guess, but I'd rather just have them open it and look around than cut my suitcase open to get past the lock ... so that I couldn't re-close it.

Your bashing of ioema who seems very knowledgable is very uncalled for... why don't you tell us all about YOUR credentials that allow you to call someone else out for them trying to state things that seem pretty factual... (seeing as they are quoted from CFR49).

Please enlighten us about your credentials, then maybe he'll answer you about his. :thumbsup:

Bozz Nowhere have I said that you MUST lock your bag. But this topic is getting old... simply re-read above for my opinion in regard to NOT locking it. Use a TSA lock (you know, the "honest people's lock") and no one who would be authorized in there will have to wreck your bag.

Simply go to my profile for my "credentials". I'm a U.S. Navy Vet and a Coxswain in the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary. I know you've seen us out on the water when on your PWC. I have a 23' Cuddy, and a PWC for patrol, myself. I, or my brethren may have towed you or your friends to safe harbor once or twice.

I'm NOT LE, but I am a First Responder trained in 1st Aid, CPR, and AED use. I have most the pertinent ICS courses under my belt (ICS 100, 200, 300, 400, 700, 800) and have used them in several minor, to many major incidents including Katrina. I've saved lives, pulled other boaters out of the water after their vessel sunk, and recovered bodies - well, one body of a boater who didn't make it.

I've read far more USC and CFR than your average GlockTalker and must know 33CFR and 46CFR for many of my quals.

I could go on (and on) - but you'll have to just trust me about any additional credentials.

Since this is fast becoming a thread hijack, please assail me once more and we can move on. :wavey: :courtsie:

[Bozz]

Originally posted by SARDG
Nowhere have I said that you MUST lock your bag. But this topic is getting old... simply re-read above for my opinion in regard to NOT locking it. Use a TSA lock (you know, the "honest people's lock") and no one who would be authorized in there will have to wreck your bag.

Simply go to my profile for my "credentials". I'm a U.S. Navy Vet and a Coxswain in the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary. I know you've seen us out on the water when on your PWC. I have a 23' Cuddy, and a PWC for patrol, myself. I, or my brethren may have towed you or your friends to safe harbor once or twice.

I'm NOT LE, but I am a First Responder trained in 1st Aid, CPR, and AED use. I have most the pertinent ICS courses under my belt (ICS 100, 200, 300, 400, 700, 800) and have used them in several minor, to many major incidents including Katrina. I've saved lives, pulled other boaters out of the water after their vessel sunk, and recovered bodies - well, one body of a boater who didn't make it.

I've read far more USC and CFR than your average GlockTalker and must know 33CFR and 46CFR for many of my quals.

I could go on (and on) - but you'll have to just trust me about any additional credentials.

Since this is fast becoming a thread hijack, please assail me once more and we can move on. :wavey: :courtsie:

Before we get totally off-topic on this thread, I'll THANK YOU for your service to this Country, and to the area in which we both live.

It doesn't, however change the fact that you had no right to call ioema out on his credentials when all he was trying to do was state some facts about air travel.

So, if you'd spend more time trying to HELP rather than belittle someone who was trying to help... we'd all be further ahead. ;)

Bozz

[sbob63]

I amd my bro, both have carried guns, had to have the gun in a locked case..in the old days the case had a big 'Firearms' sticker on it, after a rash of thefts, the took that off for stealth. I think putting the locked case inside a suitcase or bag is the best idea, but it might still be searched, and without provocation, meaning they will bust locks, ect...like in my case. Whether that case is in a locked bag is another thing. Pesonaly I lock up all my bags...too easy for people to just open it up and get something out otherwise.

Some people when they travel, have nothing of value, nothing they can't afford to loose..it's not a bad idea. Travel light, buy your clothes when you get there, especialy in a third world country where things are inexpensive.

Others bring camaras, laptops, presents, gifts, watches, traveler's checks, ect.

Locking up a bag also is a better idea because it keeps zippers and latches from accidentaly unzipping and unlatching during the baggage handling process.

[SARDG]

Originally posted by sbob63
I amd my bro, both have carried guns, had to have the gun in a locked case..in the old days the case had a big 'Firearms' sticker on it, after a rash of thefts, the took that off for stealth. But unfortunately, I've ended up with large DHS "Inspected" tape on my bag after the special firearms inspection. Doesn't say "Firearms" any longer, but could tip a thief that it was inspected for a reason. Then again, I've had this tape at least once when I didn't carry a firearm.

For locks, just use TSA locks externally on your bag. That should prevent busted locks. As you said, too easy for anyone to just open at will when they are NOT locked. I'm just sayin'... :)

[ioema]

oh.....cg auxiliary...that explains it....

[minter66]

Originally posted by Raoul Duke
No doubt. No matter where you decide to go make sure you know the local firearms laws BEFORE you try and take a gun through an airport. In New York City if you bring a locked, unloaded handgun to the check in desk and declare you have a gun they will call the police and you will be arrested if you don't have a New York City pistol permit. Doesn't matter if you live in NY or not and are just traveling through.


Originally posted by Raoul Duke
Don't just check the Airlines websites. Check the local, state and federal laws as well. In some cities, New York for example, federal law doesn't apply. They have their own set of laws and if you get get caught violating THEIR laws, whether or not you are in compliance with federal law, you are screwed.

Okay both of these statements have me worried. Federal law PREEMPTS State law. What does NYC not understand about this? Federal court would throw out any and all charges and then you could counter-sue in a civil suit for wrongful arrest.

What gives? Did 9/11 make NYC invincible to Federal law?

[Minuteman]

Originally posted by minter66
Okay both of these statements have me worried. Federal law PREEMPTS State law. What does NYC not understand about this? Federal court would throw out any and all charges and then you could counter-sue in a civil suit for wrongful arrest.

What gives? Did 9/11 make NYC invincible to Federal law?


No, it has always been this way.

NYPD is nice enough to wait until you pick up your bag at the baggage claim, then there are two freindly police officers smiling at you while your standing there in possesion of an unregistered firearm in NYC and proof you illegally imported it. Federal law has nothing to do with it at that point. Your ass now belongs to NYC courts. Your a felon. Say goodnight Gracie.


If your refering to the federal "safe transport law", I suggest you read it. It clearly spells out how and where the firearm must be stored IN A VEHICLE, out of the drivers reach. Standing infront of two NYPD cops while holding a bag with a firearm, no where near a vehicle, is clearly NOT covered by the "safe transport law'.

[Bozz]

Ya know, I *thought* that I liked Giuliani, but then learned that he was the one who took gun ownership rights away from citizens in New York. NO wonder all the New Yorkers hated him when I was doing some work there.

Has he ever heard of the 2nd Amendment?


Bozz

[boxermedic]

You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.

Does the factory ammo box count for this? Or do you need an aftermarket ammo box? I am going to Arizona on Sun. and I am thinking of brining my G27, I have a center mass safe that should count for the hard sided case.

[USMC06]

Originally posted by boxermedic
Does the factory ammo box count for this? Or do you need an aftermarket ammo box? I am going to Arizona on Sun. and I am thinking of brining my G27, I have a center mass safe that should count for the hard sided case.

The factory ammo box is the "preferred" packaging by the airlines and TSA.

[boxermedic]

OK sounds good, so place ammo in its box, does that box need to be locked up? Can I place it in a locked/unlocked suitcase? Or does it have to be locked up like the pistol?

Thanks again.

[USMC06]

Just keep the ammo in its original factory box and place it inside the checked baggage. No further lock up is necessary. Use a TSA approved lock for the checked bagggage.

[kensteele]

whoever said federal law trumps state law needs to be really careful when it comes to places like nyc, washington dc, nj, california, chicago, etc and guns. some of these places have very strict gun laws that appear to run contrary to federal law....i wouldn't become that person to test them out. always always know your local and state laws.

[boxermedic]

Thanks for you help guys!

[Captain38]

First, make sure you can legally carry in the city that is your destination. It's simpler for me because I'm a "qualified retired Law enforcement officer" under 18 USC Chapter 44 Section 926C and can carry a concealed firearm DESPITE state and local laws to the contrary.

I have repeatedly flown into and out of the major airports of New York City, Chicago and Boston, and legally carried concealed in those cities throughout my stays without ANY significant problems. Those active and retired officers who CAN carry under this law, and wish to do so, SHOULD! Eventually it will become ROUTINE.

Bottom line: Know the rules, strictly adhere to them, and, YOU, too, should have a pleasant journey.

[boxermedic]

Just got home late last night with no problems after flying with my G27, locked up in a center mass safe with a cable lock through the barrel, box of ammo in factory box. First flight I had to wait about 5-7 min. for a TSA person to check the firearm, then they put the card in luggage outside of safe, flight home was faster, the person at the baggage check, did the check put the card in baggage outside safe, then gave me the bag, told me to bring it to the guys running the "scanner" and gave them the bag. They scanned it, and and said to wait while they checked the bag, took about 3-5 min, came back and said all set. My first time doing this and it went very well, no problems.

I was nice to have for the week.

[Rosco1080]

Quick question for those in the know. I am flying out Sunday and will be taking a firearm for the first time. I have a factory plastic box from my Model 37 chiefs special. Is that "sturdy" enough to use as my hard sided locked container??

It will then be secured in my locked suitcase. The TSA site is pretty vauge just states a locked hard sided container. I was going to use a cable lock throught the chamber and a master lock for the factory S&W case.

[Captain38]

Roscoe1080,

Do it just as you've described and you'll be good to go!

[Rosco1080]

Thanks. I locked the factory case and observed how flimsy it is. I decided to unscrew my "center of mass" style steel case from my closet and use that instead. That way I can cable lock it (steel case) to the inside of the large baggage or secure it somewhere in the hotel room if I find the need. Very informative thread, thanks for those that have contributed!

[boxermedic]

Thanks. I locked the factory case and observed how flimsy it is. I decided to unscrew my "center of mass" style steel case from my closet and use that instead. That way I can cable lock it (steel case) to the inside of the large baggage or secure it somewhere in the hotel room if I find the need. Very informative thread, thanks for those that have contributed!


That is just how I did it in my luggage as well.

[rmarkob]

No, it has always been this way.

NYPD is nice enough to wait until you pick up your bag at the baggage claim, then there are two freindly police officers smiling at you while your standing there in possesion of an unregistered firearm in NYC and proof you illegally imported it. Federal law has nothing to do with it at that point. Your ass now belongs to NYC courts. Your a felon. Say goodnight Gracie.


If your refering to the federal "safe transport law", I suggest you read it. It clearly spells out how and where the firearm must be stored IN A VEHICLE, out of the drivers reach. Standing infront of two NYPD cops while holding a bag with a firearm, no where near a vehicle, is clearly NOT covered by the "safe transport law'.

You'd be in a bind if NYC was your destination, but if it's not, the Federal "Peaceable Journey" law covers you. http://www.nraila.org/images/DOJltrTSA.pdf http://www.anjrpc.org/fopalawsuit.htm

[MCPreacher]

OK experts....

Flying Monday for the first time since '98, want to make sure I am set.

Got a locking Otterbox with foam cutouts for the pistol and light

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f260/preacherspulpit/Guns/Traveling/Otter_Pack.jpg

Seperate locking case for the ammo & mags (The one loaded mag will be unloaded for the trip)

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f260/preacherspulpit/Guns/Traveling/Ammo.jpg

Pistol case anchored to the suitcase frame (Yes, it will be padlocked closed as well)

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f260/preacherspulpit/Guns/Traveling/Anchored.jpg

All set? What am I missing? I have a TSA lock for the suitcase.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f260/preacherspulpit/Guns/Traveling/Packed.jpg

[rmarkob]

OK experts....

Flying Monday for the first time since '98, want to make sure I am set.

Got a locking Otterbox with foam cutouts for the pistol and light

Seperate locking case for the ammo & mags (The one loaded mag will be unloaded for the trip)

Pistol case anchored to the suitcase frame (Yes, it will be padlocked closed as well)

All set? What am I missing? I have a TSA lock for the suitcase.


Looks like you're good to go. The locking case for the ammo is not required, but is not a problem if you can handle the extra weight. I've also locked the gun box to my suitcase frame and left it in a hotel room when I couldn't carry.

[MCPreacher]

Looks like you're good to go. The locking case for the ammo is not required, but is not a problem if you can handle the extra weight. I've also locked the gun box to my suitcase frame and left it in a hotel room when I couldn't carry.

Yeah, I figured it was a bit overkill but I don't want some TSA dork fishing around and fail to close up the ammo box, have loose ammo all over the suitcase. I probably won't bother actually locking it.

As for the extra weight, this thing has wheels, baby, wheels! LOL

[Houdini]

when you check in your guns make sure they do it by the books , when you get to your destination make sure you go right to your guns do not go any wear else, a guy at my club went to the bathroom when he got to claim his guns they where not there. some one stole them, lucky he got them back.

[CBRGlocker]

when you check in your guns make sure they do it by the books , when you get to your destination make sure you go right to your guns do not go any wear else, a guy at my club went to the bathroom when he got to claim his guns they where not there. some one stole them, lucky he got them back.

I'm about to fly with a firearm for the first time. Please excuse my ignorance in this topic. I'm from Chicago but will be picking up a gun in Phoenix and bringing it back. Does the checked bag with the gun not go through the normal bagage claim area when I return to Chicago?

[acpd442]

FYI,
TSA has an armed security officer (ASO) program. The site is www.tsa.gov/lawenforcement/programs/aso-eligibility.shtm.

If there are any LEO's out there, this may be the way to go.

[method]

It's a very good idea to carry a copy of the gun policy, because TSA has no clue what they're doing. I neglected to on my trip back to Ohio for Thanksgiving, and it was a PITA.

I flew out of Cincinnati this morning, and the TSA agents insisted that my ammo had to be locked in a hard sided case, and they were not allowing it through. I told the head agent not so nicely that he was wrong, and that I'd flown five times previously without issue having carried the ammo packed just as it was, in factory boxes, inside my suitcase, but not locked inside a hard case. The airport police officer called over tried to tell the guy I was right, but it wasn't until TSA looked on the computer and reviewed their OWN policy that they saw that I was indeed correct in the way I had my guns and ammo packed.

Checking guns usually takes all of 5 minutes and involves a ticket agent and one TSA agent.....it took half an hour, a ticket agent, 3 TSA agents, and a cop this morning.

TSA is an incompetent waste of resources.

[h2co3]

FYI,
TSA has an armed security officer (ASO) program. The site is www.tsa.gov/lawenforcement/programs/aso-eligibility.shtm.

If there are any LEO's out there, this may be the way to go.

I would just join the FAMS, federal compensation, same kind of job. Much better training.

Oh, and to all pilots out on this board. I encourage you to complete the federal flight deck officer course. The more good honest people flying armed the better.

[airmotive]

Wow...a new member who has just finished reading this thread.
If you're a frequent flyer and not a member of flyertalk.com - I encourage you to pay that site a visit.
While there, you will notice there is an entire forum dedicated to the complete incompetence of the TSA - and it's one of the more active discussions. This thread only reinforces those sentiments. (Apologies to the TSA guys here...but damn! Have you read your own posts? Now imagine being a traveler and being the target of this discussion. Yes, target.)

What I've taken away from this discussion is this:

1) Follow the "rules".
What those rules are, not even the TSA knows. Oh, and some of those rules are secret and you're not allowed to know about them - but follow them anyway or you're in big trouble.

2) If you follow the rules, you're breaking the law. Oh, and those rules apparently change from airport to airport. So as long as you land at the same airport you takeoff from, you'll be okay.

3) If you follow the law, you're breaking the rules. Especially the 'secret rules' that they're not allowed to tell anyone about.

4) Common sense will NOT be tolerated. No excuses.

5) Every time I fly, I understand why we haven't had another terrorist attack. The terrorists have already won. And their victory is being closely guarded by the TSA.

[Nitro66DS]

I just made my second trip to O'hare this year but this time was on Delta. The baggage checker in Oregon had me put a sticker on the outside of my luggage (which had the G26 inside) that said "CPAG" in big bold letters. She said it was something new Delta was doing. I didn't see that on anyone else's luggage during the trip and ripped it off and threw it away the moment I got my bag back at O'hare.

I hate the idea of a big sticker on my bag that says basically "GUN INSIDE!" :steamed:

[Minuteman]

You'd be in a bind if NYC was your destination, but if it's not, the Federal "Peaceable Journey" law covers you. http://www.nraila.org/images/DOJltrTSA.pdf http://www.anjrpc.org/fopalawsuit.htm

No, it does not. Neither of those cases involve the situation we were discussing.

If you fly to NYC, to rent a car to drive to PA, you will be arrested. You are not covered by "Peaceable Journey/Safe Transport" law. You will be convicted of a felony. This has happened many times, and we have read the stroies of those who fell victim to this trap.

The first link you gave in interesting. It's not the same, but I wonder if he'll win. He was arrested, and that reflects the current view in NY/NJ. His situation was forced upon him by the airlines. Personally I would not have accepted the baggage and insited they hold it in a secure area.

[Captain38]

MCPreacher,

You show a loaded mag in one of your photos. Don't forget to unload it before you get to the secure part of the airport. Yes, I know that TSA regs mention that mags CAN be loaded if the rounds are not exposed (as in an ammo pouch) but MOST of the airlines won't go along with that.

[MCPreacher]

MCPreacher,

You show a loaded mag in one of your photos. Don't forget to unload it before you get to the secure part of the airport. Yes, I know that TSA regs mention that mags CAN be loaded if the rounds are not exposed (as in an ammo pouch) but MOST of the airlines won't go along with that.

On the trip out, I unloaded, on the trip back I didn't bother. The airline never asked to see it on either occasion. The only question concerning the ammo was if it was in a box "..because we don't want it loose and rolling around your suitcase."

[Minuteman]

On the trip out, I unloaded, on the trip back I didn't bother. The airline never asked to see it on either occasion. The only question concerning the ammo was if it was in a box "..because we don't want it loose and rolling around your suitcase."



TSA checks when they x-ray it. That's also when they check if the gun is loaded. You got lucky.