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crossfire40
01-04-2007, 03:19
Even though the way we can carry in our vehicle is being fixed, where can you carry in Ohio. Basically if I make a run to the bank I can't carry. If I take the kids to or pick them up from school, I can't carry. If I take the family out to dinner anyplace better than a fast food joint, I can't carry (liquor law). Make a quick trip to UDF, leave the gun at home. Plus the many business, even grocery stores that have signs posted leaves me with Wal-Mart, Sams, Speedway and fast food places. What's the point?

firedog978
01-04-2007, 05:27
crossfire40,

Our Ohio laws are far from perfect yet. It appears that they are getting better (as we all believed they would), and should continue to do so. Some places off limits to carry are simply common sense and are pretty much standard state to state. Others, need to be and hopefully will be changed.

You ask "what's the point?" Here it is in short. States' gun laws enacted or ammended are like any other thing a politician does; contingent on the vote. The more CHL's issued in Ohio, the more the politicians vote for good laws. And, the more there are, the more politicians listen to their concerns.

Besides, look around. I think you'll find more places you can carry than you may think. Use the bank's drive thru instead of going in. If UDF is posted go to Speedway or some other quick mart. A noticeable loss of business makes retailers take notice. I even spoke to the manager and emailed the regional manager of a local Best Buy about posting and the sign came down! Many of the pro gun sites have printable/attachable to email letters and information to send out or give out to businesses that are posted. These things work. Some of these sites are: Buckeye Firearms Association, Ohioans for Concealed Carry and Packing.org They all do good work for the cause.

Finally, we in SW Ohio are lucky. We live near enough to Kentucky and Indiana to patronize their businesses. In Kentucky you can carry in a restaurant that serves drinks (don't drink while doing it) for a meal. These states recognize Ohio CHL.

Don't leave your protection at home because Ohio laws are not perfect (YET). And please don't question "what's the point?" As a CHL, you know the point. Being prepared to defend you or a loved one if the SHTF. At this time just try to find answers to your routine and find answers to the limitations of how you do your business and where.

Brian Dover
01-04-2007, 07:01
Firedog is right, crossfire. Ohioans for Concealed Carry has business cards you can hand out, which basically state "No Guns=No Money" on one side, and on the back explain how CHL holders are upright citizens.

So far in my little burg, use of those little cards by just my dad and I have gotten the signs taken down in three or four places. It isn't that hard. Get into the game with us, brother.

Dandapani
01-04-2007, 07:56
Originally posted by crossfire40
Even though the way we can carry in our vehicle is being fixed, where can you carry in Ohio. Basically if I make a run to the bank I can't carry. If I take the kids to or pick them up from school, I can't carry. If I take the family out to dinner anyplace better than a fast food joint, I can't carry (liquor law). Make a quick trip to UDF, leave the gun at home. Plus the many business, even grocery stores that have signs posted leaves me with Wal-Mart, Sams, Speedway and fast food places. What's the point?

Yup, the antis have been very successful haven't they! They said they would block carry to the point you can carry to and from your car...

Support your state pro-CCW organizations with money and time!

AJE
01-04-2007, 09:12
Who says you can't carry in a bank? The only bank I've seen posted is 5/3. I go into the Piqua branch of Chase bank and they aren't posted.

Ol' 12-toes
01-04-2007, 09:48
My FORMER bank prohibits CC

My local Golden Corral (yes, I know, but I'm a coarse feeder) did post criminal protection signs - I e-mailed corporate office and local franchise - they never responded to me, but the signs came down -

I WOULD like to see a 51% law, but I wouldn't like to encourage drunken food-fights at Olive Garden, Applebee's, etc.

firedog978
01-04-2007, 13:24
I've never banked anywhere I couldn't CC. And, if my bank ever did post, I'd immediately close my accounts and tell them why!

Also, I've been eating in many Kentucky (51%) restaurants and haven't ever seen or even heard of a drunken food fight :thumbsup:

exprt9
01-06-2007, 01:33
Everywhere thats legal to carry.

BB62
01-08-2007, 14:41
Originally posted by Ol' 12-toes
...I WOULD like to see a 51% law, but I wouldn't like to encourage drunken food-fights at Olive Garden, Applebee's, etc.

That would be a real shame, now wouldn't it?

Of course, I see your point. You have heard of ALL KINDS of such fights in KY (where you can carry in the restaurant portion of a serving establishment, AND drink) and in Indiana (where you can carry in a bar AND drink), haven't you?

Oh, you haven't? Well then, maybe your fears are unfounded.


BB62

Ender
01-09-2007, 02:26
Originally posted by Ol' 12-toes


I WOULD like to see a 51% law, but I wouldn't like to encourage drunken food-fights at Olive Garden, Applebee's, etc.

MI's ccw law started out slightly rough, and came around quickly.

give yours time to come around also.

as far as the 51% law goes...its a COMPLETE non issue. CCW hasn't turned any state into the wild west, and it certainly won't start with yours.

time and again CCWers have been proven to be the most upright and law abiding citizens. if i were a douchbag i wouldn't think twice about carrying into olive garden (which is 3 minutes away from me :supergrin:) and getting drunk, but a simple law doesn't matter at that point ;)

Setzer77
02-06-2007, 15:49
This may sound a bit brash and bullheaded, but I tend to carry anywhere it's not a felony, with the exception of a hospital. I will carry in my 5/3 bank, I'll carry places that have signs up. I'll pay the criminal trespassing fee, no biggie. I WON'T carry in an establishment that serves alcohol, shcools, etc.

When I worked for a contracting company for dish network (you've probably seen the little toyota tacoma pickups with dish stickers on them, that's us) it was company policy NOT to carry a firearm. I did it anyway, especially when they wanted to send me to dayton. Half the people in the warehouse, including the FSMs knew I carried, not a one cared, and many agreed with my idea.

WILLSARV
02-13-2007, 11:28
Originally posted by Setzer77
This may sound a bit brash and bullheaded, but I tend to carry anywhere it's not a felony, with the exception of a hospital. I will carry in my 5/3 bank, I'll carry places that have signs up. I'll pay the criminal trespassing fee, no biggie. I WON'T carry in an establishment that serves alcohol, shcools, etc.

When I worked for a contracting company for dish network (you've probably seen the little toyota tacoma pickups with dish stickers on them, that's us) it was company policy NOT to carry a firearm. I did it anyway, especially when they wanted to send me to dayton. Half the people in the warehouse, including the FSMs knew I carried, not a one cared, and many agreed with my idea.

Why do you make the exception for hospitals?

Setzer77
02-13-2007, 13:03
Well, I noticed a sign on the door, a security guard directly behind that door, and out of simple respect. Likely the nurses and such (especially MVH here in dayton) probably have do deal with gunshots and stabbings pretty consistently, IMO they shouldn't have to deal with the stress of me carrying in a fairly secure environment should that fact come to light.

Brian Dover
02-13-2007, 13:12
Setzer, we all make our choices in these regards, and I certainly respect yours. You know, I've long thought that it's not so much IN the hospital that concealed carry is vital, but to this day there's not a parking area at one of those places that doesn't give me the heebie jeebies, especially the garages!

RickJZ
02-13-2007, 13:15
concealed is concealed (no metal detectors, no worries)!!!

Debob
02-13-2007, 13:36
All the people who carry in Ohio should join Ohioans For Concealed Carry. The more who join means more work can be done to change the laws that affect us. So just log on and join! It would be time well spent.:thumbsup:

anyplainjoe
02-13-2007, 22:26
Does anyone have a link to a/or a pre-written letter to business owners complaining about their anti-CCW policy?

Setzer77
02-13-2007, 23:11
Well, it wasn't a parking garage, we were right in front of the emergency room like 40 feet from the door, and in between the seats was the 3913 LS. Had it been a parking garage, it would have been ready to roll at all times.

firedog978
02-14-2007, 05:04
Originally posted by anyplainjoe
Does anyone have a link to a/or a pre-written letter to business owners complaining about their anti-CCW policy?

YES! This is on Ohioans for Concealed Carry, Inc.
I am copying it and pasting so, borders may be askew but, a printable copy can be gotten from the website. Ohioccw.org

What Business Owners in Ohio Need to Know About Ohio’s
Concealed Handgun Law
As a business owner and leader in your community we know you put a great deal of
thought into how to best care for the safety of your patrons and can imagine the recent
implementation of legalized concealed carry in Ohio left you wondering about your
responsibilities under the law.
Businesses that are not specifically named as prohibited locations have no obligation to
post signs banning legal concealed carry - regardless of advice given by local law
enforcement, city officials, or Chambers of Commerce.
46 states nationwide allow residents to carry concealed firearms. There are numerous
cases where a legally carried firearm was used to stop a violent attack inside a business.
Studies indicate banning firearms actually increases your risk of a shooting.
Most telling is one horrific instance at a Luby’s in Killeen, Texas, where a license - holder
obeyed the law by leaving her legally carried handgun in her car because of signs banning
weapons, only to see her Mother and Father - as well as 21 other patrons - lose their lives
at the hands of deranged killer.
We strongly suggest you take the time to visit our website (OhioCCW.org) and read “What
Business Owners Need to Know About the Concealed Carry Law” before making a
decision to post signs banning weapons in your establishment.
You will learn there are no credible studies that show increased danger to businesses that
allow concealed carry and you will learn about the liability issues if you make the decision
to leave patrons and employees defenseless.
Ohio’s concealed carry law is the strictest in the nation, requiring 12 hours of training
including use of deadly force and a thorough criminal background and mental competency
check. Therefore, you can be assured that license holders have never been convicted of
any felony or minor drug offense and have never been adjudicated mentally incompetent.
You certainly don’t know this much about your other customers.
Once you have a chance to consider the overwhelming evidence in favor of allowing
concealed carry in your business we are sure you will choose to not discriminate against
Ohio’s most law - abiding citizens.
Please let us know when you have removed all posted “no guns” signs and you will be
removed from our Do Not Patronize While Armed list.
We welcome your questions; feel free to contact me by email jeaton@ofcc.net.
Sincerely,
Joe Eaton
OFCC Business Education Coordinator

mattswabb
02-14-2007, 09:11
Originally posted by crossfire40
Even though the way we can carry in our vehicle is being fixed, where can you carry in Ohio. Basically if I make a run to the bank I can't carry. If I take the kids to or pick them up from school, I can't carry. If I take the family out to dinner anyplace better than a fast food joint, I can't carry (liquor law). Make a quick trip to UDF, leave the gun at home. Plus the many business, even grocery stores that have signs posted leaves me with Wal-Mart, Sams, Speedway and fast food places. What's the point?

Why would you support businesses that don't allow ccw? My bank allows concealed carry and I'd never go into a UDF. If you stay off the school property then you can pick up the kids. Just need to make the kids walk off the property to meet you. I never go to walgreens or to Marco's pizza or any other CPZ. Takes a little planning but it can be done.

DO NOT patronize "no guns" places that volutarily put up the signs (not state/federal mandated places). If you support their business then you're supporting the anti-gunners.

anyplainjoe
02-14-2007, 10:59
We have to be even more vocal than the antis. Unless the business owners hear our side of the story, the lies told by the antis will eventually be accepted as fact.

joedoc
02-15-2007, 18:59
Well, I sure would feel better if I could carry at the mall, particularly after the Salt Lake shooting (which should be considered a terrorist attack IMHO).
I will not break the law, but it leaves me feeling naked at certain times/places.

mattswabb
02-15-2007, 19:12
Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Carry

Setzer77
02-15-2007, 23:25
We can't carry at malls? Uh oh..... I took it off when we went to the california pizza kitchen b/c they served alcohol, but no other time except when I didn't have my license.

mattswabb
02-16-2007, 04:48
You can carry at malls unless they are posted. It bothers me that people who took the training and have a license don't even know where they can carry. You have a drivers license and took the time to learn where you can and cannot drive but why not do the same for the ccw?

It's a short list of no carry places:

Listed in the Ohio CCW pamphlet, the places you are not allowed to carry are:


* Police stations.
* Sheriffs’ offices.
* Highway Patrol posts.
* Premises controlled by the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation.
* Correctional institutions or other detention facilities.
* Airport terminals or commercial airplanes.
* Institutions for the care of mentally ill persons.
* Courthouses or buildings in which a courtroom is located.
* Universities, unless locked in a motor vehicle or in the process of being locked in a motor vehicle.
* Places of worship, unless the place of worship permits otherwise.
* Child day-care centers.
* Premises that dispense liquor. Concealed firearms are also banned in a room or arena in which liquor is dispensed for which a class D permit has been issued. A class D permit is generally issued to an establishment that sells alcohol for consumption on the premises. Be certain of the type of permit before you enter. Note also that a liquor permit extends to
beverages that contain alcohol, not simply hard liquor. Beer, wine, mixers and the like are covered.
* Buildings owned by the state or any political subdivision. Buildings under the control of the state or any of its political subdivisions, such as counties, cities and the like also prohibit concealed firearms. This prohibition also extends to all portions of any building that is leased by the state government. For example, it would extend to the floor of a private building that is leased by the government. Additionally, libraries,
which are often funded through a consortium of governmental bodies, are covered by the statute.
* School safety zones. Concealed handgun license holders must be especially cautious when entering school safety zones. A school safety zone consists of a school, school building, school premises, school activity and school bus. For the purposes of this statute, a school includes everything up to the property boundary. Under the law, an offense is within the vicinity of a school if it is committed within the property boundary or within 1,000 feet of the boundaries of any school premises.
* Federal law prohibitions. Under federal law, 18 United States Code Section 930, it is illegal to have a firearm in a building or part of a building owned or leased by the federal govern-ment where federal employees are regularly present for performing their duties. There may be other places where firearms are prohibited. Make yourself aware of specific prohibitions before you arrive carrying a concealed handgun.

Not too hard to memorize. Add any other place that volutarily places a sign on the entrance.

anyplainjoe
02-16-2007, 06:37
In regards to this 1,000 foot zone around a school, what happens if your home or a home you are visiting is inside this zone?

Setzer77
02-16-2007, 07:15
I know the important places I can and cannot carry, I don't worry about the voluntary signage. I memorized the very specific ones, so don't get snarky. I just hadn't remembered malls being on the specific list like police stations, schools etc. I don't generally memorize every single establishment that posts a sign.

glockess56
02-22-2007, 00:30
I go to UDF all the time for gas and I have never seen a sign, at least the ones I go to. As for banks, the Huntington is not posted. In fact, look at the banks that are robbed most of the time. Aren't they 5/3 banks we read about getting hit?

vwsqbk1271
02-23-2007, 20:43
Setzer77, DD's policy does suck, especially with some of the areas we have work in. Did Andy know that you were carrying on the job?

Setzer77
02-23-2007, 20:50
Hah, no, he didn't. Sparks, Wes, and Shawn knew though, so did half the warehouse. Tony recommended it once though, I asked him about a certain area code in dayton they were sending me to, and Tony says "you better have a gun" in that....special accent he has.

mmc45414
02-27-2007, 04:58
I used to go to UDF almost every day. The last day I went there was the first day I saw the signs. My CC info showed that I was on track to spend ~$2500 a year (was driving a lot at the time). Been a Speedway customer ever since! :thumbsup:

osu_glocker
03-08-2007, 16:59
Originally posted by Setzer77
Well, I noticed a sign on the door, a security guard directly behind that door, and out of simple respect. Likely the nurses and such (especially MVH here in dayton) probably have do deal with gunshots and stabbings pretty consistently, IMO they shouldn't have to deal with the stress of me carrying in a fairly secure environment should that fact come to light.


I'm a nursing student so I'm going to the hospital every day. For those who know the area, I'm at Mount Carmel West which is definitely not in the best neighborhood so would love to carry to school and eventually work but its just not plausible. As far as the gunshot wounds and stab wounds, I haven't seen any yet but I have heard quite a few stories and met a guy that was previously shot (former gang member). But I sure as hell am worried everyday when I walk to and from my car...

BB62
03-08-2007, 17:34
Originally posted by mmc45414
I used to go to UDF almost every day. The last day I went there was the first day I saw the signs. My CC info showed that I was on track to spend ~$2500 a year (was driving a lot at the time). Been a Speedway customer ever since! :thumbsup:

You ought to drop a postal letter to UDF - directed to the President.

Money talks.


BB62

Brian Dover
03-08-2007, 19:57
Comin' up on three years since UDF started their campaign of hatred towards us legal CCWers. I'm sure they've gotten plenty of letters, and many OFCCers and BFAers and their friends/families continue to spend no money there.

Haven't seen any of the Lindner clan downtown with "will work for food" signs yet, I'm guessing we have not made any sort of dent. Sure do miss their ice cream! :sad:

jtull7
03-08-2007, 20:21
I carry 24/7, except where I cannot by law.

I would NEVER carry into a financial institution. I believe that it is just not right.

Dandapani
03-10-2007, 06:40
Originally posted by jtull7
I carry 24/7, except where I cannot by law.

I would NEVER carry into a financial institution. I believe that it is just not right.

If a financial institution ISN'T posted, you should carry there. Willy Sutton, the famous bank robber, was asked why he robbed banks. He said, "Because that's were the money is!"

firedog978
03-10-2007, 11:05
Originally posted by jtull7
I carry 24/7, except where I cannot by law.

I would NEVER carry into a financial institution. I believe that it is just not right.


You can carry (by law) into a financial institution unless otherwise posted. If you just feel you'd rather not do so then, that's a choice you make but, it's not illegal to do so. I happen to feel that's a more likely place for a BG to be pointing a gun at me than most other places I go.

WILLSARV
03-12-2007, 22:20
Originally posted by jtull7 Originally posted by jtull7
I carry 24/7, except where I cannot by law.

I would NEVER carry into a financial institution. I believe that it is just not right.

What is your logic? Banks and patrons of banks get robbed all the time. So why would you not pack at a bank?

mmc45414
03-13-2007, 04:57
Originally posted by BB62
You ought to drop a postal letter to UDF - directed to the President.

Money talks.


BB62 I did write the following email:
Nearly every morning for the past 2-3 years I was accustomed to stopping at one of your Dayton area stores to buy a cup of coffee, gas if needed and a dozen donuts if we have customers visiting our office. Monday I noticed the store I generally stop at has posted a sign denying entry to Ohio Concealed Handgun License holders like myself.

While I respect that you are a private business and have the right to refuse service to anyone, I am puzzled why you would want to refuse service to me. To obtain my CHL I had to take, at my expense, a state mandated course that extensively addressed the use and escalation of force and I was required to demonstrate my marksmanship abilities. Then I volunteered my fingerprints and a photo for a comprehensive background check conducted the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office. This check confirmed that I have a clean criminal history with no episodes of any violence and the State of Ohio issued my CHL. This was not a trivial process and think that it validates that I am the type of person you should welcome to your stores rather than shun.

The primary thing that drew me to your stores was the Speedpass and it makes it easy to quantify my spending habits. My bank enables me to download 45 days of transactions and in the period preceding May 2 (the day I noticed your CHL prohibition) my Speedpass charges are $317, an annual run rate of over $2,500. This is in addition to my daily cup of coffee that I typically pay for with cash. A review of my expense report documents indicates I have spend $135 YTD on Krispy Kreme donuts alone (~$400 annually).

Fortunately for me, your decision will not be an inconvenience because there is a competitive Speedway store about 300 yards away. I went there Tuesday and the coffee is less expensive and they have the dome lids your store has been perpetually out of stock on. They seem to have everything you have except the sign prohibiting access to CHL holders like myself. And Speedway trusts me, like the Montgomery County Sheriff's Department trusts me, and the State of Ohio trusts me, I just don't understand why UDF has decided you don't trust me.

This is no longer my concern, however I will forward this correspondence to your retail partners Mobil and Krispy Kreme so they will be aware of the impact of your decision, as well as your competitor Speedway so they are aware of the opportunity you have created for them.

ynot
03-13-2007, 07:55
in my house. you never know when your wife may snap!:)