Reference for Conceal Carry in a vehicle [Archive] - Glock Talk

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J Crew
01-05-2007, 10:22
For Non-CWL holders:

Statute 790.25 (http://http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC25.HTM&Title=-%3E2006-%3ECh0790-%3ESection%2025#0790.25)

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.

This means one must have the firearm securely incased or the firearm must be out of reach (immediate use). Good example for Non-CWL holders is a gun in a snapped holster and placed in an enclosed glovebox. Some good examples lent by Gmountain include: Now, it could be snapped in a holster and stuck in the door pocket. That would be fine. It could also be snapped in a holster and on the passenger seat, covered by a newspaper. Or, depending on your vehicle, snapped in a holster and laying on the passenger seat. You could have it snapped in a holster and lay it on the floor.


For CWL holders (supercedes Statute 790.25):

Statute 790.001 (http://http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=790.001&URL=CH0790/Sec001.HTM)

(16) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.
(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

This means the gun can be readily accessible as long as it is encased. An example would be for a CWL holder to have a gun in a snapped holster in the center console next to them. Another example would be for a CWL holder to have a gun in an enclosed container with a lid on ones lap. Both of these examples are legal as long as they are not in ordinary sight, but may not always be the best choice.

Remember to think in advance what will occur if you happen to run into a law enforcement officer. Will the carry method in your vehicle, although legal, cause uneccessary stress to you, others, and/or an officer? Could you land yourself behind the barrel of a loaded police gun and/or in jail? As stated in the Cop Talk forums, not all police are up to speed on concealed carry laws and CWL carry methods. These are things you always want to take into consideration.

For All, as described in Statute 790.001 (http://http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=790.001&URL=CH0790/Sec001.HTM) that applies to everyone:

(2) "Concealed firearm" means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person.
(3)(a) "Concealed weapon" means any dirk, metallic knuckles, slungshot, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the weapon from the ordinary sight of another person.

Simply means keep the gun out of sight for others to see.

Definitions

Securely encased defined -
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC001.HTM&Title=->2006->Ch0790->Section%20001#0790.001

790.001 Definitions.--As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires:

(16) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.

(17) "Securely encased" means
*in a glove compartment, whether or not locked;
*snapped in a holster;
*in a gun case, whether or not locked;
*in a zippered gun case;
*or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

Anything * is good no matter the location. Snapped in a holster under the seat meets the statute requirements for securely encased.

J Crew
01-05-2007, 10:24
This is meant for a reference for Floridians or others passing through. Please, if you see an error or mis-spelling then let me know so that I can correct it. If you think there should be other examples used then please suggest those as well. Thanks and hope this can help some of us.

- Jason

noway
01-05-2007, 14:09
good point and good post.


Going back to closed post the gun strap to the glove box is just silly and stupid. And nowhere as cwl or non-cwl could you get away with it.


I think alot of people are not seeing the wording of "concealed". As yes that mean concealed for a CWL licensee or not.

Dandapani
01-05-2007, 15:33
I asked the mod gods to make this thread sticky! Nice work!

fcfc
01-05-2007, 15:46
Good post, J Crew.

Here are a couple of things to consider. First, Jon Gutmacher indicates (p.72) that it would be legal to have a gun in the car "wihin reach, under a towel... No, it doesn't have to be in a holster!"

Second, I do recall that "securely encased" does not mean that the holster, if used, must be a snapped holster.

Last, and very minor, is that "Statue" should be "Statute" in 3 places.

Good work, JC, and thanks!

Notrega
01-05-2007, 16:09
Include this section -
When in doubt check the statutes -

Definitions

Securely encased defined -
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC001.HTM&Title=->2006->Ch0790->Section%20001#0790.001

790.001 Definitions.--As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires:

(16) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.

(17) "Securely encased" means
*in a glove compartment, whether or not locked;
*snapped in a holster;
*in a gun case, whether or not locked;
*in a zippered gun case;
*or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

Anything * is good no matter the location. Snapped in a holster under the seat meets the statute requirements for securely encased.


***********************************
Other Relevant statutes -

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC001.HTM&Title=->2006->Ch0790->Section%20001#0790.001

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carry something with these statute numbers on you in some form or memorize them...

Rusty Shackleford
01-06-2007, 04:34
This means one must have the firearm securely incased and the firearm must be out of reach (immediate use). Good example for Non-CWL holders is a gun in a snapped holster and placed in an enclosed glovebox.

I'm going to have to take issue with the first "AND" in that quote. A firearm transported in a car in either condition is legal and both do not need to be met.

Loaded, in the glove box (unlocked or locked) is legal, permit or no permit. This is spelled out in the law.

Loaded, somewhere in the vehicle that requires you to exit the vehicle to retrieve it and use it is also legal, permit or no permit. This is not really spelled out in the law, but there is plenty of case law on it.

Gmountain
01-06-2007, 05:55
Originally posted by J Crew
For Non-CWL holders:

Statute 790.25 (http://http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC25.HTM&Title=-%3E2006-%3ECh0790-%3ESection%2025#0790.25)



This means one must have the firearm securely incased and the firearm must be out of reach (immediate use). Good example for Non-CWL holders is a gun in a snapped holster and placed in an enclosed glovebox.

Error. A gun for non CCW people does not need to be snapped in a holster AND in a glove box. One or the other is all that is required.

For CWL holders (supercedes Statute 790.25):

Statute 790.001 (http://http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=790.001&URL=CH0790/Sec001.HTM)



This means the gun can be readily accessible as long as it is encased. An example would be for a CWL holder to have a gun in a snapped holster in the center console next to them. Another example would be for a CWL holder to have a gun in an enclosed container with a lid on ones lap. Both of these examples are legal as long as they are not in ordinary sight, but may not always be the best choice.

Absolutely, completely, wrong.You have to learn to read all sections of a statute, and apply them together. 790.25 clearly states that carrying in a car without a ccw will not cause a person to be in violation of 790.01.

790.01 states:
790.01 Carrying concealed weapons.--

(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person who carries a concealed weapon or electric weapon or device on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) A person who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) This section does not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06.


Remember to think in advance what will occur if you happen to run into a law enforcement officer. Will the carry method in your vehicle, although legal, cause uneccessary stress to you, others, and/or an officer? Could you land yourself behind the barrel of a loaded police gun and/or in jail? As stated in the Cop Talk forums, not all police are up to speed on concealed carry laws and CWL carry methods. These are things you always want to take into consideration.

So you are saying that following the law is wrong. No offense, but you are nuts. I carry all the time, and my gun is in a holster on my hip. According to your logic I should remove my gun from my holster and put in in a glove box.

That is not how the law is written, nor is that the intent. The rules on concealed carry in a vehicle specifically exempt CCW holders from those rules for the very reason that permit holders have concealed weapons and they keep those weapons readily accessible. That is the whole point of the law.

The misinformation in your post could endanger someone's life by causing them not to be able to get to their firearm.

For All, as described in Statute 790.001 (http://http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=790.001&URL=CH0790/Sec001.HTM) that applies to everyone:



Simply means keep the gun out of sight for others to see. [/B]

Well, you did get that part right.

J Crew
01-06-2007, 12:33
Originally posted by Gmountain
Error. A gun for non CCW people does not need to be snapped in a holster AND in a glove box. One or the other is all that is required.



Absolutely, completely, wrong.You have to learn to read all sections of a statute, and apply them together. 790.25 clearly states that carrying in a car without a ccw will not cause a person to be in violation of 790.01.

790.01 states:
790.01 Carrying concealed weapons.--

(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person who carries a concealed weapon or electric weapon or device on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) A person who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) This section does not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06.



So you are saying that following the law is wrong. No offense, but you are nuts. I carry all the time, and my gun is in a holster on my hip. According to your logic I should remove my gun from my holster and put in in a glove box.

That is not how the law is written, nor is that the intent. The rules on concealed carry in a vehicle specifically exempt CCW holders from those rules for the very reason that permit holders have concealed weapons and they keep those weapons readily accessible. That is the whole point of the law.

The misinformation in your post could endanger someone's life by causing them not to be able to get to their firearm.


Well, you did get that part right.

this is a reference and the law is not black and white. that was the reason i wrote this up. i gave examples and didn't say 'this' or 'that' had to been done. plus i was using the sections of the statutes that applied. i linked the statutes so others could read everything else on their own time. sit down, breathe, and chill out and maybe you won't come off like a big ass :thumbsup:

Gmountain
01-06-2007, 14:51
Originally posted by J Crew
this is a reference and the law is not black and white. that was the reason i wrote this up. i gave examples and didn't say 'this' or 'that' had to been done. plus i was using the sections of the statutes that applied. i linked the statutes so others could read everything else on their own time. sit down, breathe, and chill out and maybe you won't come off like a big ass :thumbsup:

The law is very clear on this issue, and is not subject to interpretation. You have posted sections of the statutes, but have completely misinterpreted them. A "reference" that is erroneous does not help anyone.

Giving the correct information may save someone's life.

J Crew
01-06-2007, 14:55
Originally posted by Gmountain
The law is very clear on this issue, and is not subject to interpretation. You have posted sections of the statutes, but have completely misinterpreted them. A "reference" that is erroneous does not help anyone.

Giving the correct information may save someone's life.

lol, there's always one that never seems to get it. have a good one brother.

noway
01-06-2007, 16:54
I have to agree with gmountain your posting and information is wrong or not 100% correct whatever way you want to take it ;)

I also agreed you have to read the whole reference vrs selectively taking out what you think is all you need.


{This means the gun can be readily accessible as long as it is encased. An example would be for a CWL holder to have a gun in a snapped holster in the center console next to them. Another example would be for a CWL holder to have a gun in an enclosed container with a lid on ones lap. Both of these examples }


btw I got a kick out of the CCW-holder have to have a gun holster and in a center console example, man that was hilarious :rofl:


jcrew one question for you, did you take a CCW class and if you did and your instructor gave you this erronous information, please go back an demand your money back.

Also pls do us all a favor and post his name/location so I can make sure not to reccommend any of my friends to him.

J Crew
01-06-2007, 17:23
Originally posted by noway
btw I got a kick out of the CCW-holder have to have a gun holster and in a center console example, man that was hilarious :rofl:


learn to read. i never typed 'have to have' anything in my example. that's my point, it's just a scenerio that's legal.

Originally posted by noway
jcrew one question for you, did you take a CCW class and if you did and your instructor gave you this erronous information, please go back an demand your money back.

Also pls do us all a favor and post his name/location so I can make sure not to reccommend any of my friends to him.

i got the information from others on this forum. yes i tood a class, but my instructor informed us that we had to follow a 3-step rule. i've since learned there is no 3-step rule. everything that i summurized in this thread was taken from other members help, advice, and guidance.

btw, as stated before. this is a reference to start from. it's not written in stone. constructive criticism is welcome, being an jerk is not. i'll end by saying, i don't like to spend my time bickering on forums, so i'm done responding to comments that are 'holier than thou' and not constructive.

Gmountain
01-06-2007, 17:34
Originally posted by J Crew
This is meant for a reference for Floridians or others passing through. Please, if you see an error or mis-spelling then let me know so that I can correct it. If you think there should be other examples used then please suggest those as well. Thanks and hope this can help some of us.

- Jason

This is your post. You asked for errors to be pointed out. The errors have been pointed out, by Rusty Shackleford, Noway, and myself, and you have decided to argue about them.

The problem is your initial post, while well intentioned, is full of errors and misinformation. If you rewrite it and correct it, I'm sure it can become a valuable resource.

Notrega
01-06-2007, 18:06
Originally posted by J Crew
everything that i summurized in this thread was taken from other members help, advice, and guidance.


Just read the frigging statutes... it is very clear.... that is why I almost never 'interpret' just post the quote from the statute and provide a link....

example - this shows that it is legal to possess a concealed firearm with in a car, provided it is either securely encased or not readily accessible for immediate use -
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC001.HTM&Title=-%3E2006-%3ECh0790-%3ESection%20001#0790.001
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
NOW here comes tricky part...
Private conveyance = car (very little interpretation)
Securely encased & not readily accessible for immediate use = (LOADS of interpretation) so HERE is where you provide further information in a similar format... see below....
--------------------------------------------------------
Securely encased defined -
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC001.HTM&Title=->2006->Ch0790->Section%20001#0790.001

790.001 Definitions.--As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires:

(16) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.

(17) "Securely encased" means
*in a glove compartment, whether or not locked;
*snapped in a holster;
*in a gun case, whether or not locked;
*in a zippered gun case;
*or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

SW.FLA.glocker
01-06-2007, 18:29
Statute 790.25



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"This means one must have the firearm securely incased and the firearm must be out of reach (immediate use). Good example for Non-CWL holders is a gun in a snapped holster and placed in an enclosed glovebox."
___________________________________________




After posting the statute you then follow up by replacing the word "or" with the word "and". that effectively changes the entire meaning. the weapon need to be "securely encased" OR "otherwise not readily accessible". the word "or" in my opinion implies you can do either but are not required to do both. Also as per the statute, a snapped holster is considered securely encased.

This is my understanding. If i am misunderstanding anything would a smarter person please explain why I am wrong?

J Crew
01-06-2007, 18:39
Originally posted by SW.FLA.glocker
Statute 790.25



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"This means one must have the firearm securely incased and the firearm must be out of reach (immediate use). Good example for Non-CWL holders is a gun in a snapped holster and placed in an enclosed glovebox."
___________________________________________




After posting the statute you then follow up by replacing the word "or" with the word "and". that effectively changes the entire meaning. the weapon need to be "securely encased" OR "otherwise not readily accessible". the word "or" in my opinion implies you can do either but are not required to do both. Also as per the statute, a snapped holster is considered securely encased.

This is my understanding. If i am misunderstanding anything would a smarter person please explain why I am wrong?

i agree... making correction.

SW.FLA.glocker
01-06-2007, 18:58
I hope others chime in and give their opinions. It is always good to have more than one, two, or three.

Gmountain
01-06-2007, 19:03
Originally posted by SW.FLA.glocker
Statute 790.25



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"This means one must have the firearm securely incased and the firearm must be out of reach (immediate use). Good example for Non-CWL holders is a gun in a snapped holster and placed in an enclosed glovebox."
___________________________________________




After posting the statute you then follow up by replacing the word "or" with the word "and". that effectively changes the entire meaning. the weapon need to be "securely encased" OR "otherwise not readily accessible". the word "or" in my opinion implies you can do either but are not required to do both. Also as per the statute, a snapped holster is considered securely encased.

This is my understanding. If i am misunderstanding anything would a smarter person please explain why I am wrong?

You have it right. One way to make a weapon not readily accessible is to have it securely encased.

SW.FLA.glocker
01-06-2007, 19:09
So we are all in agreement??

A person needs not to be licensed, and can carry in a car in a snapped holster and still be legal.

Next question; can it be concealed or does it need to be in plain view?

Gmountain
01-06-2007, 19:14
Originally posted by SW.FLA.glocker
So we are all in agreement??

A person needs not to be licensed, and can carry in a car in a snapped holster and still be legal.

Next question; can it be concealed or does it need to be in plain view?

It must be concealed. Whether or not you have a CCW, the gun cannot be in plain view.

J Crew
01-06-2007, 19:21
Originally posted by SW.FLA.glocker
So we are all in agreement??

A person needs not to be licensed, and can carry in a car in a snapped holster and still be legal.

Next question; can it be concealed or does it need to be in plain view?

that's why i originally had 'and' instead of 'or' under the non-cwl section. because after talking to many FL cops, it is understood that a non-cwl holder must have the gun put away. it can neither be concealed (no concealed weapons license) nor can it be out in plain sight. basically the law is written in a 'f'ed up way and can be read more than one way. the way i understand the law may be different than my neighbor and/or the cop that pulls me over. i wrote the reference as a starting point and took notes and suggestions from other members (alot of cops) but am defenitely open to other suggestions. so hopefully a couple of other people well versed in this area can chime in. thanks for opening up a good discussion.

J Crew
01-06-2007, 19:22
Originally posted by Gmountain
It must be concealed. Whether or not you have a CCW, the gun cannot be in plain view.

a non-cwl holder can not conceal a weapon. that's what this question is in reference to.

edit: let me clarify, i mean conceal as 'on his person'.

Gmountain
01-06-2007, 19:30
Originally posted by J Crew
a non-cwl holder can not conceal a weapon. that's what this question is in reference to.

edit: let me clarify, i mean conceal as 'on his person'.

I would agree with that. If you have a CCW, you, of course, can keep it anywhere.

Without a CCW, it would have to be out of the ordinary sight of another and either sanpped in a holster, or in the glove box, or zippped in a case, or in a box with a lid. Now, it could be snapped in a holster and stuck in the door pocket. That would be fine. It could also be snapped in a holster and on the passenger seat, covered by a newspaper. Or, depending on your vehicle, snapped in a holster and laying on the passenger seat. You could have it snapped in a holster and lay it on the floor.

As long as it meets one of the definitions of securely encased, and it is not visible to the average person, you are okay.

J Crew
01-06-2007, 19:35
Originally posted by Gmountain
I would agree with that. If you have a CCW, you, of course, can keep it anywhere.

Without a CCW, it would have to be out of the ordinary sight of another and either sanpped in a holster, or in the glove box, or zippped in a case, or in a box with a lid. Now, it could be snapped in a holster and stuck in the door pocket. That would be fine. It could also be snapped in a holster and on the passenger seat, covered by a newspaper. Or, depending on your vehicle, snapped in a holster and laying on the passenger seat. You could have it snapped in a holster and lay it on the floor.

As long as it meets one of the definitions of securely encased, and it is not visible to the average person, you are okay.

correct and good examples as well.

freepatriot
01-06-2007, 19:45
Stuckit. :thumbsup:

Gmountain
01-06-2007, 19:57
If you have a CCW, you can do anything you want with the weapon, as long as it is out of plain view. No holster is required, nor is it required to be securely encased.

You can put it in your lap, in your pants, in a pocket, in the glove box, in your holster, anything you want to do.

SW.FLA.glocker
01-06-2007, 20:26
Great!!!!!!

Now that we have established all of these details in a more civilized manner than that "other" thread of a similar nature let me pose one more question.

Shouldn't this holster http://www.desantisholster.com/n92.html (http://)

be ok to use for a non CWP holder? It was argued in another thread that this holster would be considered concealed. I think that thread was locked ue to people not being able to "just get along"...lol. According to what everyone here agrees upon, the holster/weapon NEEDS to be concealed, or at least out of plain sight. So, once again, shouldn't this holster be OK for CWP and non CWP alike?

Gmountain
01-06-2007, 21:22
Originally posted by SW.FLA.glocker
Great!!!!!!

Now that we have established all of these details in a more civilized manner than that "other" thread of a similar nature let me pose one more question.

Shouldn't this holster http://www.desantisholster.com/n92.html (http://)

be ok to use for a non CWP holder? It was argued in another thread that this holster would be considered concealed. I think that thread was locked ue to people not being able to "just get along"...lol. According to what everyone here agrees upon, the holster/weapon NEEDS to be concealed, or at least out of plain sight. So, once again, shouldn't this holster be OK for CWP and non CWP alike?

For some reason the link doesn't work.

For a CCW, it is fine, of course. For a non CCW, I don't see the snapped thumb break. The statute says snapped.

I also think it would be construed as on or about the person, which takes it out of the private conveyance exception.

The Supreme Court of Florida, in Ensor v. State, 403 So.2d 349 (Fla.1981), stated that:
The term 'on or about the person' means physically on the person or readily accessible to him.

790.25 states that the exception does not authorize concealed carry, which is "on or about". In the case of the holster in question, it is actually touching your leg, or the strap is touching your body when you sit in the seat.

So if you ask me, I'd say no, that holster would not be acceptable if you had it in the drivers seat.

SW.FLA.glocker
01-06-2007, 21:49
Your post makes a lot of sense. I would think one could argue however, that when you have a gun in a car it is pretty much always going to be easy to access...lol. It is such a confined space.

i thought the holster had a snap by the way. I think you are right about this one though.

noway
01-06-2007, 22:16
One other thing I want to bring up is the fact that the reference law say firearms which covers handgun and rifle and shotgun or anything that's a firearm. but theirs a case that prove that you don't need to "encase" a weapon or keep it conceal.


A person was stopped with a plain in view weapon ( shotgun iirc ) and it was unloaded. The courts rule it was okay since the gun was not immediately accessible. Nor could be use within the confines of a interior of a car or truck in this case iirc.

btw: before anybody get any bright ideas, I i wouldn't try my luck with a unloaded gun in that scenario ;)

And if you have lexus or westlaw, you can search the courts findings on the matter.

Stretchman
03-12-2007, 01:03
790.001
(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

This is interpretive.

The Police constantly state the three step rule.

In 790.001 - 17, it states:

"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked" and then the first semi colon is added.

From Wikpedia:
In English, the semicolon has two main purposes:

It binds two sentences more closely than they would be if separated by a full stop/period. It often replaces a conjunction such as and or but. Writers might consider this appropriate where they are trying to indicate a close relationship between two sentences, or a 'run-on' in meaning from one to the next; they do not want the connection to be broken by the abrupt use of a full stop.

It is used as a stronger division than a comma, or a "super comma" to make meaning clear in a sentence where commas are already being used for other purposes. A common example of this use is to separate the items of a list when some of the items themselves contain commas.

So, this may be interpreted as:

(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked, "and" snapped in a holster;

"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked, "and" in a gun case, whether or not locked;

"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked, "and" in a zippered gun case;

or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

790.001
(16) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.

790.25
(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;

(m) A person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper, concealed or otherwise, from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business;

When the law is interpreted, it isn't done so piecemeal, but as a whole. So, 790.001 doesn't necessarily allow for you to ignore 790.25, because it doesn't specifically state that it supercedes it.

So, here's the real breakdown. Your weapon should be in a holster or gun rug, or some other kind of casement, and in a glove box, or center console. It doesn't have to be locked, but should not be available for immediate use, as if it were being carried on your person.

It can be in a gun box, sitting on the seat, if it is unloaded, and being transported for some legal usage, such as to and from the gun shop.

Any other way you choose to carry it, and officer discretion as to the safety and availability of the firearm for immediate usage. So, if it is in a holster, and between the seat, it is readily available, and can be construed to be illegal. Same weapon in the console or glove box is fine.

Liberally construed to favor lawful usage. That means that the officers on scene have some latitude in deciding whether or not the weapon is in violation. Let's say, for safety reasons, the weapon should be encased. In a holster is fine, but it should be a retention holster, whether or not it is snapped, or can be. In other words, a holster designed to hold the weapon, whether it needs to use snaps or not in order to hold it securely. Or in a gun rug or case. Think safety.

790.25
(5) ... Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use.

Note it says other than a handgun.

The point being, the State says it's fine to carry a handgun in your car. It should be in a holster or gun case, and either in your glove box or center console. It is open to interpretation. Some people don't have glove boxes or center consoles. Is it there for legal defensive pourposes, or is it btween the seat and ready for immediate draw and usage? That's what the police will look at. In a box, in plain view? It should be unloaded. There for defensive purposes? In a holster in the glove box or console.

Florida writes their laws weird. But the intent is obvious. If the cops pull you over, and have no doubt that you are an upstanding law abiding citizen, and have that gun between the seats for lawful defensive purposes, they may not hassle you. But it should be in the glove box or console. If they think that you have the weapon there because you want to whip it out on someone, you're going down. It's just as accesible as if it were on your person, and you're probably going to be arrested.

When the Police come in here and tell you directly that there's a 3 step rule, it's what they mean. Maybe you can find a lawyer who will get you off. But odds are there'll be a prosecutor that can charge you under a different statute, and without a direct statement saying that this supercedes that, then you will be found guilty. Ask me how I know.

The real point is safety. A holstered weapon won't normally ND. In the console or glove box means you can't just whip it out, and it isnt't sliding all over the floor of the vehicle. Don't take chances and possiblyu lose your right to have a firearm at all.

Sorry for being so long winded. But in Florida, it takes years to understand the law, much less to be able to effectively represent someone in court. If it means something other than what the cops say it does, they would tell you.

Magnus DUX
03-27-2007, 13:11
Is there anyone who got stopped by LEO and had a gun in his vehicle without CWL ?Would be interesting story.
I do not believe they read all these laws.Some maybe.

:rofl:

Six Feet Under
06-24-2007, 01:12
Reading this thread gave me the idea to attach a cheap holster (Fobus, etc.) to the inside of my glovebox, most likely the door, to carry a pistol in my vehicle. Once I turn 18, of course, which is only a couple months away.

Good idea or no? It's securely encased so there's no chance of an AD, and also out of sight for the average person, plus it's not within reach of me normally.

passive101
07-15-2007, 04:17
I've just been putting my glock 26 loaded into my empty glove box.

This is legal correct? The law says locked or unlocked.

Gmountain
07-28-2007, 05:53
Originally posted by passive101
I've just been putting my glock 26 loaded into my empty glove box.

This is legal correct? The law says locked or unlocked.
Perfectly legal.

passive101
07-28-2007, 10:27
Thank you Gmountain. Though I am now keeping it in my glove box in a CTAC holster for right now for safety and letting me keep one in the chamber.

staticfiend
11-20-2007, 08:55
When I went to the range last Friday I put my gun in the factory case, then put it in a back pack and then put it in the trunk of my car. I think I was law abiding? :-P I go for my CWP test tonight!

TM1
11-29-2007, 17:23
I think the best advice and resource for anyone carrying a handgun in Florida is Gutmacher's book. Read it once and periodically as a refresher and keep a copy in your vehicle so that you can 'educate' any leos that are lacking in their knowledge of the law, especially that mythical 3 step 'rule'

TM1
11-29-2007, 17:25
When I went to the range last Friday I put my gun in the factory case, then put it in a back pack and then put it in the trunk of my car. I think I was law abiding? :-P I go for my CWP test tonight!


Loaded in the glove box would have been fine.

Znyper
01-05-2008, 00:03
Everyone with a CWP in FL should have this book - http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/

It explains all of the laws, etc. in easy to understand verbage.

Whether you have a CWP or not it say's this about "securely encased" -

- in a snapped holster - anywhere - loaded or unloaded
- in a closed console - loaded or unloaded
- in a closed glove compartment - loaded or unloaded
- in a zippered gun case - loaded or unloaded
- in any other type of closed container which the gun cannot be fired until withdrawn - loaded or unloaded

brboyer
01-05-2008, 20:25
I would agree with that. If you have a CCW, you, of course, can keep it anywhere.

Without a CCW, it would have to be out of the ordinary sight of another and either sanpped in a holster, or in the glove box, or zippped in a case, or in a box with a lid. Now, it could be snapped in a holster and stuck in the door pocket. That would be fine. It could also be snapped in a holster and on the passenger seat, covered by a newspaper. Or, depending on your vehicle, snapped in a holster and laying on the passenger seat. You could have it snapped in a holster and lay it on the floor.

As long as it meets one of the definitions of securely encased, and it is not visible to the average person, you are okay.

No requirement for it to be concealed. In a snapped holster lying on the passenger seat is OK.

The statute says securely encased.......... not securely encased and hidden from view:

790.001(17) "Securely encased" means
in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; -OR-
snapped in a holster; -OR-
in a gun case, whether or not locked; -OR-
in a zippered gun case; -OR-
or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

790.25 (3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 (Open Carry) and 790.06 (Concelaed Carry) do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:
. . .
(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;
. . .
--------------------------------------------------
Section 5, confuses the situation by indicating that it has to be concealed:
790.25(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

wolf4000
06-17-2008, 11:26
Well after doing my extensive research on Fl gun laws I purchased my G19 a few weeks ago. Then I applied for my ccw license over the weekend at the Ft Lauderdale Gun show. The instructor clearly stated in the class that a firearm must be in a its own case in the trunk of the car. Not in the glove box, or in the center console. Did the law change or is the instructor, I hate to say it "wrong"

Znyper
06-17-2008, 12:34
Well after doing my extensive research on Fl gun laws I purchased my G19 a few weeks ago. Then I applied for my ccw license over the weekend at the Ft Lauderdale Gun show. The instructor clearly stated in the class that a firearm must be in a its own case in the trunk of the car. Not in the glove box, or in the center console. Did the law change or is the instructor, I hate to say it "wrong"


Your instructor was wrong. See my above post.

BUNIT9685
07-12-2008, 12:59
I took my CHP class last week and the instructors kept saying you had to have it in a box or snapped holster and in the glove box or trunk and that you couldnt have it in the center console at all (without CHP).

Kinda made me mad having to sit there and listen to them give out incorrect info. When I bought my glock there a guy was asking about glock hi cap mags and the clerk (one of the instructors) was saying they didnt make any...

5pointstar
08-11-2008, 09:57
Whatever you guys choose to do remember its always better to just put in for the permit. The laws are always changing or being amended, the last thing you want is to get caught up in a legal battle.

CableRouter
08-22-2008, 14:57
The instructors mentioned are probably just erring on the side of caution. Is it legal to have a loaded pistol sitting in a snapped holster in your center console without CCW? Certainly.

Is there a set of circumstances in which a traffic stop could escalate into a trip to jail while the legality of the carry gets sorted out? Certainly. Sure, the cop might unclear about the law, or even deliberately misapplying it; but the standard procedure is going to be to cart you off to jail while a judge and/or a prosecuting attorney determine the legal niceties.

Do you really want to spend even a single night in jail, much less a whole weekend and get dragged through a he said/I said court situation where the presumption is that the police officer is in the right? Being unfair and unjust won't prevent it from happening.

Why even risk the possibility when avoiding it is as simple as filling out the paperwork, tossing in a check for a month or two worth of range fees and ammo and getting your CCW. It's good for 7 years, if you can't afford to be spending 50 cents a week on your permit, you also won't be affording the training and practice needed to ensure the proficiency you're going to wish you had if you ever really need that firearm to defend your life.

Hyksos
10-26-2008, 00:25
When I took my Concealed Weapons class, it was taught by a sergeant of the Palm Beach Gardens Police Department who worked at the gun store as a side job. He was very clear about the law, and there was not any of the confusion that some of you people seemed to have.

We were instructed what securely encased was, how it applied, and he even told us the universal hand symbol for "I have a concealed weapon" when police approach your car (created by the NRA some years ago he said) so that the officer can know you are armed, and most likely not going to blow his head off.

Granted the sergeant said that not all police will know the hand sign, but it doesn't hurt to try. Either way there was no talk of this 3 step rule, or any such 'it has to be in the trunk' nonsense.

21Glocker
11-12-2008, 16:33
I am waiting on my CCW to come in the mail, check has been cashed by them, just playing the waiting game. While i wait i am still carrying in the car and am wondering, can i carry in a holster under the seat with one in the chamber? Or is there some sort of law about being able to have it loaded or not?

brboyer
11-12-2008, 19:35
I am waiting on my CCW to come in the mail, check has been cashed by them, just playing the waiting game. While i wait i am still carrying in the car and am wondering, can i carry in a holster under the seat with one in the chamber? Or is there some sort of law about being able to have it loaded or not?

Loaded, not loaded don't matter...

If the holster has some type of strap, snap or other locking mechanism, you're fine. The statute says "snapped in a holster"...

On the other hand you can toss it in the glove-box or console, sans holster, if you want and you'll be OK.

21Glocker
11-13-2008, 14:02
Sweet thanks man!

Aurelius
11-14-2008, 19:34
Excellent information ladies and gentlemen.

Felitti
02-24-2009, 12:52
what about a person under 21 at their business (family owned). can that person carry concealed? or have to open carry?

Roxxxy
03-07-2009, 07:20
im probably posting on the oldest thread on here..but i wanted to know....


i dont currently have a CCW, but i want to go to the range. how do i get myself w/ my gun to the range legally?

i read all the statutes posted and stuff..but the legalese is very confusing. and someone said..everyone interprets it differently.

i just want to know if i got my g30 locked in its box in the trunk- am i good to go?

rich52us
03-07-2009, 07:57
im probably posting on the oldest thread on here..but i wanted to know....


i dont currently have a CCW, but i want to go to the range. how do i get myself w/ my gun to the range legally?

i read all the statutes posted and stuff..but the legalese is very confusing. and someone said..everyone interprets it differently.

i just want to know if i got my g30 locked in its box in the trunk- am i good to go?

Yes. You don't need to have a CCW to have a handgun (even loaded) in your vehicle in Florida. The best reference for anything to do with firearms in Florida is Gutmacher's "Florida Firearms Law,Use & Ownership" which is available at most gun shops.

neonhomer
06-07-2009, 19:02
and he even told us the universal hand symbol for "I have a concealed weapon" when police approach your car (created by the NRA some years ago he said) so that the officer can know you are armed, and most likely not going to blow his head off.



So, what is said hand signal?


While I am waiting for my CWP to come in, I have my G27 in it's box with a loaded magazine in the gun, but the chamber is empty. I would have to cycle it to chamber a round.

The box sits under the back seat of my truck. I can reach around and unsnap the box open and grab it, but it is a little of stretch...

Tdog1
06-21-2009, 18:36
Did we ever get a response to "What is the universal handsign for carrying a concealed weapon"??[



quote=Hyksos;11526286]When I took my Concealed Weapons class, it was taught by a sergeant of the Palm Beach Gardens Police Department who worked at the gun store as a side job. He was very clear about the law, and there was not any of the confusion that some of you people seemed to have.

We were instructed what securely encased was, how it applied, and he even told us the universal hand symbol for "I have a concealed weapon" when police approach your car (created by the NRA some years ago he said) so that the officer can know you are armed, and most likely not going to blow his head off.

Granted the sergeant said that not all police will know the hand sign, but it doesn't hurt to try. Either way there was no talk of this 3 step rule, or any such 'it has to be in the trunk' nonsense.[/quote]

PFCWARD82
08-19-2009, 23:58
Okay, heres my question ( I have read all of this but it dosent answer about the age) I'm 18, and I legally own a Glock 23 that was purchased by my mother, then given to me as a graduation gift. Am I allowed to carry it in my vehicle? I have before, it was in a snapped holster, loaded mag but none in the chamber, in my glove box. Is this legal? Im confused because I have read that FL says I can legally own a pistol, but I cant buy one, or ammo.

Hyksos
08-22-2009, 09:17
Did we ever get a response to "What is the universal handsign for carrying a concealed weapon"??[



quote=Hyksos;11526286]When I took my Concealed Weapons class, it was taught by a sergeant of the Palm Beach Gardens Police Department who worked at the gun store as a side job. He was very clear about the law, and there was not any of the confusion that some of you people seemed to have.

We were instructed what securely encased was, how it applied, and he even told us the universal hand symbol for "I have a concealed weapon" when police approach your car (created by the NRA some years ago he said) so that the officer can know you are armed, and most likely not going to blow his head off.

Granted the sergeant said that not all police will know the hand sign, but it doesn't hurt to try. Either way there was no talk of this 3 step rule, or any such 'it has to be in the trunk' nonsense.

Well, what the sergeant told us was that when you grip the wheel as the officer approaches (in a 10 and 2 position I assume) you instead place your hands flat with your fingers extended. Instead of gripping the wheel, act like you're holding up 5 fingers on both hands, and place those hands flat onto the 10 and 2 position of the steering wheel.

This way (presumably) you for sure cannot be holding anything, and I guess (also presumably) that one would put their CCW/Drivers License/Insurance in between the pointer and middle finger of the left hand?

The sergeant did say that this is a bit of an older practice, and that not all law enforcement know this sign however he said it could not hurt.

Hope this helped.

highfructosecornsyrp
02-03-2011, 13:57
I'm a bit confused. I have a concealed weapons permit. I am exempted from keeping the weapon in a secured area (glove blox, closed center console, holster).

I can put the gun anywhere I want, so long as it is not visible, no?

When I get in the car, I place mine under my seat leaning against the center console. Better place than stuck in the small of my back sitting in the seat...

jamaicanj
02-07-2011, 00:55
I never heard of this hand signal...see below. Anyone else heard of it or better yet used it?

Thanks

Well, what the sergeant told us was that when you grip the wheel as the officer approaches (in a 10 and 2 position I assume) you instead place your hands flat with your fingers extended. Instead of gripping the wheel, act like you're holding up 5 fingers on both hands, and place those hands flat onto the 10 and 2 position of the steering wheel.

This way (presumably) you for sure cannot be holding anything, and I guess (also presumably) that one would put their CCW/Drivers License/Insurance in between the pointer and middle finger of the left hand?

The sergeant did say that this is a bit of an older practice, and that not all law enforcement know this sign however he said it could not hurt.

Hope this helped.

GaleForce
02-14-2011, 00:03
Thanks for this thread. I was just wondering today that if, as someone without a CCW, I could keep a handgun in my glove. I don't have a holster since I don't carry but when I do have the gun with me it would be nice to be able to put it there rather than in the trunk like I have been doing.

Can the gun be loaded if you don't have a CCW?

EDIT: Never mind, I see above that someone mentioned the gun can be loaded.

dbcooper
04-01-2011, 16:43
I don't know why the 3 step thing refuses to die, it was never the law here.

One thing to remember is most officers still think there is a 3 step law and you may end up in cuffs til it's sorted out. Way back when I went to my CC class they included an article from a central Fl. paper. An attorney got pulled over, officer sees weapon, asks for permit, lawyer says I don't need one it's legal, lawyer spends 10 or so hours locked up, gets 60,000 dollars for wrongful arrest suit. I keep the copy of the laws in my car, just in case but an officer who doesn't know the law most likely will not read the law or debate it with you if he's convinced he's right, but you may get a big payday out of it.

deltacharlie2
04-23-2011, 03:20
Good post, J Crew.
Here are a couple of things to consider. First, Jon Gutmacher indicates (p.72) that it would be legal to have a gun in the car "wihin reach, under a towel... No, it doesn't have to be in a holster!"
All the employees at my local gun shop have a loaded firearm on or around their center console. Many keep it within easy reach, concealed by a small towel. All our law enforcement cares about is if it is in plain sight. I got pulled over in Jacksonville Beach with a desert eagle in my unlocked glove compartment; the officer pulled out the weapon, smiled, and said "There needs to be more Americans like you".

Court in FL.
05-08-2011, 22:11
Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use.


I take it this means long guns (rifles & shotguns) are not a problem when carried in a private conveyance (car or truck). ???????


Court in FL.

brboyer
05-09-2011, 08:32
Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use.


I take it this means long guns (rifles & shotguns) are not a problem when carried in a private conveyance (car or truck). ???????


Court in FL.

Correct.

JETHRO38
05-24-2011, 21:30
I have to agree with gmountain your posting and information is wrong or not 100% correct whatever way you want to take it ;)

I also agreed you have to read the whole reference vrs selectively taking out what you think is all you need.


{This means the gun can be readily accessible as long as it is encased. An example would be for a CWL holder to have a gun in a snapped holster in the center console next to them. Another example would be for a CWL holder to have a gun in an enclosed container with a lid on ones lap. Both of these examples }


btw I got a kick out of the CCW-holder have to have a gun holster and in a center console example, man that was hilarious :rofl:


jcrew one question for you, did you take a CCW class and if you did and your instructor gave you this erronous information, please go back an demand your money back.

Also pls do us all a favor and post his name/location so I can make sure not to reccommend any of my friends to him.

:rofl:

rdpG19
08-30-2011, 12:46
Both my wife and I have CWL's I carry on my hip everywhere I go, she carries in a belly band sometimes..

Good Post...very informative!

docswing21
10-13-2011, 17:17
Concealed weapons on military bases does any one have any information on the rules on this?
I was told that you could not! Any insight would be great.


Thanks

Doc

rdpG19
10-14-2011, 03:36
Good post, and comments.

waylouderthanyou
05-14-2012, 20:04
Great info, newbie here! I usually carry everywhere with my gov't credentials :)

redscho
05-14-2013, 07:43
Concealed weapons on military bases does any one have any information on the rules on this?
I was told that you could not! Any insight would be great.


Thanks

Doc

This is true. No personal weapons, concealed or otherwise are allowed on military bases. Checked it out before visiting grandson at Columbus AFB Mississippi 4/28/13.

see: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440102

zo6kid
05-25-2013, 20:10
Thanks for the Forum , lots of good info , waiting on my CCW .