Accuraccy with diffrent lasers?

[Banger 19]

Wouldn't it be nice to have a crimson trace laser grip that lined up right under the barrel like the lasermax does? I want a laser for my sig229 and have been reading all about lasermax and crimson trace on a bunch of diffrent forums. I still cant decide so I need so help guys, here is some pros and cons:

CTC : Pros : Instant on with a natural grip and instant off with relaxed grip, no changing internals, nice looking grip,
Cons : accruacy is not as good at distances other than the distance you sight it for. If you want a perfect shot at ,say 25 feet when the laser is sighted in for 50 you will hit low and to the right unless you try and guess how much to compensate for that distance and move the laser up and to the left.


Laser max : Pros : drop in recoil rod does not require adjusting,
only elevation needs to be compensated for at distances less/greater than 50 feet, and that is only about 1/2"-3/4" from what I hear, You do not have to worry about windage adjustments because you are dead center of the bore already.

Cons: changing internals, less reliable, cant use stock springs,
activation is slower.


My main pro in having a laser is to have the most accurate at all distances because you never know how long or short the shot will be.
I also want to hunt with the laser, small critters, so with the CTC I might have to have a bit more practice to hit a small target at a distance not sighted for , where as the LM, I know the shot will land dead center.

Am I getting the wrong Idea about CTC? I really want to like them better than LM, but so far leaning towards laser max.

[Banger 19]

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[Banger 19]

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[Banger 19]

lasermax /w remote switch 899$$

[Banger 19]

Do any 0f you electricians that own lasermaxs, think this can be done?
lets see if we cant solder a wire on the contacts, or splice on to the wire, and take the lasermax on/off button out off the gun and see if we cant run the wire out of the gun and down the sides to the front checkering where we will have one of those activation pads.
Opinions?

[Rebel_James]

I'd like to know where you got the info on the accuracy of the Crimson Trace laser??

Seems to me there wouldn't be all that much difference?? If you're talking about target accuracy, maybe. But for what it's designed for, I don't see where there'd be all that much.

If you think about it, NO sights are going to be pin-point accurate for ranges shorter or longer than the sighted in range. Lasers especially. Bullets when shot have an arc in their trajectory. Lasers are perfectly straight.

I have a Crimson Trace on order from Impact Guns and it should be here sometime this week. I plan on 'sighting it in' at 10 yards. I think that should cover shorter distances, and a little longer distances too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v32/Rebel_James/Clday06042.jpg

[Banger 19]

I took apart my armalazer and got out the little laser. I think it might fit in the hollow guide rod of my p229. then mabe run the 2 wires through the end of the rod to finally exit the slide lock. Run the wires down to the grip with a switch and presto.... uh. now where to put the batteries? they would also have to go in the guide rod I guess, but might be to big. Why not just alter a lasermax unit instead?

[RayB]

We took our nines to the range yesterday for some needed R&R. Since she shoots less than I do, Judy brought her G19 in full regalia--that's with SureFire X200B, LaserMax, and some Double Tap +P ammo.

Again, after 210-rounds of mixed ammos, the Green Machine and its accessories all functioned perfectly. This makes about 4000-rounds on this Lasermax, and it has yet to screw up.

The LaserMax in my G21 has turned itself on something like three times in a similar number of rounds, and I consider this more of a glitch than a malfunction. It has never failed to activate.

There was a cop and his son there, and I showed them how the G19 with Lasermax allowed me to overlap head shots on a target 30-feet out, with my hands resting on the range ledge (no sighting down the barrel). He and his son took a few shots and were very impressed. They reciprocated by letting me have a few shots with a S&W .44 Magnum, they'd brought with them! :supergrin:

The point is, the LaserMax never fails to impress the open-minded shooter that encounters it. Rounds always appear about 1/4" above the dot, right to the back of the range. Both men regarded the OD G19 and its rig as "Sweet!". :thumbsup:

Judy beamed like a proud mamma! :hearts:

The idea of attaching a remote switch to the guide rod laser is intriguing. Since the slide does most of the moving, it should in principle, be possible.

This would negate the installation of the take-down lever and spring assembly, and involve running leads through a drilled hole above the trigger guard or in the grip. An adhesive/conductive ribbon may serve better than wires, at least in part.

A new end cap for the LaserMax would be required, and this could probably be metal, with connection leads running from it.

Space for the leads would be at a premium, as they would have to snake around the barrel lug and locking block.

I wonder, could the switch, powered by its own button battery, send a signal to a receiver in the LaserMax, and activate it that way? This would eliminate hard wiring between the two components. Surely the miniaturization of such transceiver technology exists! :headscratch:

Of course, this new little gem would probably cost about a grand, by the time we're done with it! :banana:

--Ray

[Banger 19]

I read an article that some law enforcment guy wrote; he said his laser max does not hit directly in line with the barrel. he states that the inpact is more up and to the right. Is he just not shooting steady enouh? does your lasermax actually shot straight in line with the barel (windage) from 0-50 feet and beyond? If it does I think I wil go with lasermax over crimson just because of this small advantage.

[Ducati Monster]

I plan on 'sighting it in' at 10 yards. I think that should cover shorter distances, and a little longer distances too.
IMO you should always zero your sights (laser) at the maximum useful distance. The indoor range I visit runs out to 25yd, so I zeroed my Lasergrips at 20yd (need a bench-rest & steady hand). At 5yd point of impact is about 1/2-3/4in high/left. More than accurate enough for self-defense, I shoot for the “center of mass” anyways.

As far as hunting small critters... I’d go with a scope, but I use the laser-grips to hunt beer cans pretty often. I can make’em dance at 5-10yd. The further out I go, the better I hit with open sights. The dot’s hard to see in daylight & hard to hold steady out past 15yd. Maybe I drink too much coffee.

Just like any sighting system, you just godda know your sights/loads & practice.

[RayB]

Originally posted by Banger 19
...does your lasermax actually shot straight in line with the barel (windage) from 0-50 feet and beyond?


On our G19 & G21, rounds impact the target just above the dot, and "maybe" a wee bit left windage-wise--if it's not me doing it as I squeeze the trigger. So, yes, they're pretty parallel.

Our range maxes out at fifty feet, so I can't say. In any case, we would unlikely shoot at something outside the house, so the utility of 30 - 50 feet works fine for us.

Wind aside, since the LaserMax aligns just below, and parallel to the barrel, there must be a "sweet spot" where the beam and bullet meet. I don't know where that is. But it would change with various ammos anyway.

Other lasers, like the CT grips, would allow you to dial in that sweet spot.

But I don't think these products, as offered, are intended for ultra precise shooting. Rather, they're "precise enough" to get the job done in a high stress situation.

--Ray

[Banger 19]

At 5yd point of impact is about 1/2-3/4in high/left. More than accurate enough for self-defense, I shoot for the “center of mass” anyways


Is your point of impact 1/2-3/4 high and 1/2-3/4 left?


Does any one know the point of impact at 7 yards when the laser is dialed in to 10 yards like Ducati Monster plans on doing to his ctc?
I am just trying to get an idea of average deviation whith this laser sight.

[RayB]

Originally posted by Banger 19
Is your point of impact 1/2-3/4 high and 1/2-3/4 left?


I believe they're "tighter" than that, at the distances we're talking. Put another way, our G19's & G21's LaserMax units easily meet or exceed those parameters.

How each LaserMax unit performs in each gun model, is beyond my experience.

Good luck with whatever you choose! :thumbsup:

--Ray

[Ducati Monster]

Does any one know the point of impact at 7 yards when the laser is dialed in to 10 yards like Ducati Monster plans on doing to his ctc?That was a quote from Rebel_James.

I suggested sighting it in at 20yd as I did mine. From the factory it's zeroed at 50ft which is like 16+ yards. It hits 1/2-3/4in high left at close range, would be tighter off a bench. I think that's right on, hell, my thumb is more then 3/4in wide.

To answer your question in the quote: I'd guess right on the money.

PS: Hope my buddy gets a Laser-max for his 32c, I would like to try it out.

[CTfam]

Im not a pro shooter by a long shot and my glock does not have a laser on it. But what I can comment on is the crimson trace I have on my j-frame revolver. I sighted it in at 25 ft. When I send the target out to 75 feet I still shoot a nice tight group where I need them to go. It is better than good enough for self defense or hunting critters. Everyone has an opinion on what company is better, mine being CT. Dont over think it. Both are accurate as heck from my range trips.

[crpydy]

All of this is well and good. But you need to consider something. If you are planning on using these units on a glock the CTC unit will change the grip significantly. The lasermax does not.

I don't like the lasermax units. I rather like the CTC units. I also like glocks.

I did not like the CTC and GLock combo at all.

[Banger 19]

I have decided to go with the CTC on my sig. You guys have definatly helped me decide their pros very much out way the little 1/2" to the left/right problem. I also dont want to buy something for my gun from lasermax and have to keep going back to them for guide rod springs.
I would rather buy the grips and not have to worry if they will be in bussiness in the future or if they will run out of stock or stop making my brand.

:thumbsup:

[CTfam]

I think you made the right choice. Crimson Trace makes one hell of a product. Post some pics and a range report ASAP. :thumbsup:

[HK45Mark23]

Originally posted by Banger 19

Laser max : Pros : drop in recoil rod does not require adjusting,
only elevation needs to be compensated for at distances less/greater than 50 feet, and that is only about 1/2"-3/4" from what I hear, You do not have to worry about windage adjustments because you are dead center of the bore already.

Cons: changing internals, less reliable, cant use stock springs,
activation is slower.


I have decided to go with the CTC on my sig. You guys have definatly helped me decide their pros very much out way the little 1/2" to the left/right problem. I also dont want to buy something for my gun from lasermax and have to keep going back to them for guide rod springs.
I would rather buy the grips and not have to worry if they will be in bussiness in the future or if they will run out of stock or stop making my brand.

LaserMax uses Wolff Gun Springs. If you’re not using the captive double spring assembly for the 26/27 and 29/30 then you can change the springs yourself.

It is amazing how little people know about LaserMax and their superiority to any other laser site.

And where do you get off calling the LaserMax un-reliable. I have shot everything hot through a G-22, 21, 27 and 29 with LaserMax as the guide rod and not one problem out of thousand and thousands of rounds covering a 12 + year period.

I think it is best not to call something unreliable if you have no experience. I know you don’t have any real experience with lasers or you would not be here looking or advice.

I also know you did not do enough research. The research you did was to conclude your own desires and not to actually know the differences or features and benefits of one over the other.

NATO authorized the LaserMax and not Crimson Trace. Crimson trace is nice, but no lasermax.

For those who say that the laser is off target, LaserMax can place it at the exact POA and POI of your choice. Maybe not something you can do, but that is because they never change POA and POI once set no adjustments are ever necessary.

The LaserMax accuracy and reliability is second to none.

Of course it is your money and your decision and good luck with what you choose, but please know the facts and don’t say that a product is unreliable when it is not.

Crimson trace is a good product and I am sure you will be happy with it, just too bad you did not go to a range with some one who had a LaserMax and a Crimson trace and saw the difference for your self. Good Luck and congratulations!!!

Do give a report.:thumbsup:

[Banger 19]

HK45Mark23, I never said lasermax was "unreliable" I was comparing lasermax to CTC and said it was "less reliable" than the two in comaprison. make sure you read the threads carfully before you reply to someone else's post. I have read about LM rods breaking,coming apart, jaming a sig closed, and so on. I am sure there are lemons out there but if my CTC tears up I will still have a functional weapon. I do like the Idea of a laser directly under the barrel, but until they come out with a CTC/LM hybrid with the grip activated, no internal parts to change and laser under the barrel in some way other than the guiderod I will not risk putting a LM on my carry gun. CTC All the Way!
;)

[RayB]

Many of us have been reading erroneous and even ridiculous reports about LaserMax, long enough to challenge the crap; and a lot of it is crap.

As was said in earlier posts and threads, many complaints are unresolved because the original complainer never follows up, ignores the LM rep's recommendations (they do chime in now and then) or does not give the whole story--they got it on eBay cheap, and it's not even the right unit for the right gun.

One recent post in General Glocking claimed that a guy so destroyed the frame of his Glock, installing the LaserMax, that the gun now needs servicing by the OEM. Possibility One: The guy's an idiot and can't turn a screwdriver. Possibility Two: It's a lie to cover up what really happened. Possibility Three: They got their LaserMax on eBay (the wrong model) with no instructions and not a clue. Other than the provided punch, no tools are required to install a LaserMax. Been there; did that; twice now.

Here's one LEO's in depth report on using LaserMax in a duty weapon:

http://www.commtechreview.net/firearms/lasermax.htm

My experience in my own G21 closely parallels this cop's, though mine's a newer model. We're talking thousands of rounds of complete reliability.

Judy's G19--the same story.

But yes, LaserMax does take just a wee bit of finesse to install correctly--a gorilla with ten thumbs will have problems with it.

I've yet to replace that battery cap you spoke of--or batteries for that matter.

Recoil springs are consumable parts. Period. Many people swap out the plastic OEM guide rod and spring as a matter of course for their new Glocks. Others are way over due to replace the originals. Either way, the Glocks keep plugging away! ;)

For a while there, it was beginning to sound like this...

*** LaserMax broke! Gun never fired! ***

*** Wife buys Crimson Trace! Husband reforms! ***

I think you get my drift...

It got so bad that one GT member implied that no service people, LEOs or PDs even used LaserMax--they're all Crimson Trace believers!

Conversely, I don't doubt for a minute that there are legitimate product failures with LaserMax. Likewise, I've seen refurbished Crimson Trace grips for sale at MidwayUSA.

Like HK45, I really don't care what you buy, so long as you're making decisions on facts, and not urban legends, or unfounded suppositions.

Like all of us, you pays your money, and takes your chances.

CT's a first-rate product. I hope you enjoy it, take comfort that it's there; but hope you never, ever need it. :thumbsup:

--Ray

[HK45Mark23]

Originally posted by Banger 19
HK45Mark23, I never said lasermax was "unreliable" I was comparing lasermax to CTC and said it was "less reliable" than the two in comaprison. make sure you read the threads carfully before you reply to someone else's post. I have read about LM rods breaking,coming apart, jaming a sig closed, and so on. I am sure there are lemons out there but if my CTC tears up I will still have a functional weapon. I do like the Idea of a laser directly under the barrel, but until they come out with a CTC/LM hybrid with the grip activated, no internal parts to change and laser under the barrel in some way other than the guiderod I will not risk putting a LM on my carry gun. CTC All the Way!
;)

OK so your right, you didn’t say un-reliable, but you did say less reliable. That is also not true.

I am glad you’re buying a laser, you will have great fun with it, and it will be a great training aid.

I did come off a little harsh. I am sorry for that. But I still believe that the LaserMax is far superior to the Crimson Trace. Some day you will get a wild hair up your butt and decide to try one out for your self. I am sure when that day comes you will be happy.

Good Shooting!!! Congratulations!!!

Oh by the way the title of this tread is “Accuracy with different Lasers” not reliability of different lasers.

The LaserMax beats Crimson Trace on both points hands down bar none.