Colt Series 80 Stainless Commander Problem

[wilmas2cool]

I suspended carrying the Colt (got the G26) after a malfunction at the range where when the slide rubbed up against my right thumb (I'm a lefty) during firing and the firing pin stop dropped half way out and locked the slide back hooked on the hammer. It took some time to unlock. Put it back together and fired about 40 more rounds with no trouble. Didn't try to induce same malf. Friends said to get an oversized firing pin stop and dress down to fit tight. But every 1911 I check in stores have the same loose fit. I can handle an occasional FTE or FTF and clearing due to ammo or bad grip but not parts falling out of the gun. I don't trust the gun anymore for protection. Has anyone had similar experieces ? Any advice ?

[G36's Rule]

I've never heard of anything like this. And I don't see how your thumb rubbing the slide would cause it.

About the only thing I would think could do it is a broken/weak/damaged firing pin spring.

[wilmas2cool]

Had parts checked by two good 1911 gunsmiths and they said firing pin, spring, stop, recoil spring, firing pin safety, mainspring were all withing specs. I'm taking it and an older Auto Ordinance GM back to the range to try and duplicate. I'm baffled.

[G17GUY]

All that happened is your hammer fell on the firing pin which went forward like it should letting the loose FPS slide down. The easiest way to cure this is to get a wolf heavy firing pin spring. Most of the time this alone will cure the problem. Else, you can fit an EGW FPS for a tighter fit so that it doesn’t slide down so easily.

[wilmas2cool]

Thanks. First intelligent info I've got in weeks. I will try a heavier FP spring. I still love the simplicity and the caliber of the 1911.

[G36's Rule]

Originally posted by G17GUY
All that happened is your hammer fell on the firing pin which went forward like it should letting the loose FPS slide down. The easiest way to cure this is to get a wolf heavy firing pin spring. Most of the time this alone will cure the problem. Else, you can fit an EGW FPS for a tighter fit so that it doesn’t slide down so easily.

Unless his firing pin is very short, that can not happen. Not while it is loaded anyway. Would be kind of stupid to design a pistol where parts fall out when it fires.

When the hammer hits the firing pin, the pin moves forward to hit the primer. When it does hit the primer, it is still well inside the firing pin stop.

In order to remove the firing pin stop, you have to depress the firing pin way passed where the primer would stop it.

Check it and see for yourself. If you press the firing pin in until the FPS is loose, there will be alot of pin sticking out past the breech face.

Edited to add:

While the pistol is in battery, the FPS can NOT fall down anyway as the frame would stop it.

But you say it happened when you were firing. The pistol fired then cycled and that is when it happened. Right?

[1911Tuner]

It's the firing pin spring, and it's also a common occurrence in Series 80 Colts. The firing pin springs that they install in those are shorter and softer than spec. The FP stop drops when the slide smacks the frame, just as it heads back into battery...and catches the hammer. Many don't drop far enough at first to cause the slide to stop...but eventually they do.

G17 guy called it. The cure is a good firing pin spring of the correct length and tension.

[wilmas2cool]

Yep, the malf happened during firing in front of my brother-in-law who is a competitive shooter with 1911's. He couldn't explain it and had a real "getting ready to vomit" look on his face. The week/short FP spring makes real good sense. I will order a new one, test and report back. This Colt has some really bad machining flaws that made it look like it was produced during one of Colt's bankruptcy periods.
My wife said with the flaws it was a good match for me. I still really enjoy shooting it and will prob have some custom work done on it later. Thanks guys for the valuable advice.

[sheepdog]

Sort of tagging on the thread but have a related question-do you know if the softer FP springs are related or allegedly "necessary" for for the S80 system (plunger part) to work "correctly" in Colt's scheme of things, or is it just a plain old error? Just learning, if I can, thanks.
s.d.

[auto45]

I'm not Tuner, but I use an extra power FP spring in my series 80 and no problem.

[1911Tuner]

Originally posted by sheepdog
Sort of tagging on the thread but have a related question-do you know if the softer FP springs are related or allegedly "necessary" for for the S80 system (plunger part) to work "correctly" in Colt's scheme of things, or is it just a plain old error? Just learning, if I can, thanks.
s.d.

Since the shorter/softer springs have been in every Series 80 Colt that I've had my grubby hands in...and there have been many...I'd have to say that there's some method to their madness, and it's probably related to reliable firing pin release. Some few of the
Series 80 systems are timed a little late, which lets the plunger remain just low enough for the firing pin to hit it...but not so hard that it stops the pin. The downside is that, if it's allowed to continue unchecked, the damage will eventually reach the point that it WILL stop the pin, or at least cause light primer strikes and misfires. Evidence of this can be seen as light markings around the circumference of the plunger that almost appears to be splines or teeth. These marks will be on the bottom of the top half of the plunger, just above the point that it takes on the hourglass shape. If the damage is pretty light, it can *sometimes* be corrected by dressing the area...but the real cure usually involves
using a #2 plunger lever...which Colt won't sell or ship to anyone except an authorized warranty station. They'll send #1 levers all day long, and those are available from Brownells. Some smiths will heat and bend the existing levers to advance the timing. I've done it with good success, but much prefer finding one of the elusive #2 levers if possible.

[sheepdog]

Thanks auto45, interesting to see it seems to be a trend.

Thanks, Tuner. I've see pictures of some gun with the plunger beat up as you describe from being out of time. I don't know if it was a S80 or a Kimber or what, now. I have not heard of the #1 vs. #2 plunger levers, but I'm not much beyond changing grips and guide rods. I think I'm done buying anything with a Schwartz safety and maybe even with a Colt 80 rig, I have had some headaches with them and will stick with Springfield and an STI now, no more plunger worries.
Thanks for the time, I always read your stuff.

[wilmas2cool]

WENT BACK TO THE RANGE AND FIRED 50 ROUNDS OF HARDBALL. I PUT MY THUMBS AGAINST THE SLIDE DURING FIRING BOTH LIGHTLY AND
FIRMLY AND COULD NOT DUPLICATE THE MALFUNCTION OF THE FIRING PIN STOP DROPPING OUT OF THE SLIDE. AS REPORTED BEFORE, I SAW IT AND IT WAS WITNESSED, BUT NOW I CAN'T DUPLICATE IT. SERIES 80 PARTS STILL SPOOKS ME. SERIES 70 DESIGN SEEMS THE BEST AND
LEAST PROBLEMATIC SYSTEM.

[MSgt Dotson]

As a minimum, I'd acquire a slightly snug replacement S80 firing pin stop and a HD FP spring just to prevent a possible recurrence...

[MSgt Dotson]

Originally posted by wilmas2cool
I PUT MY THUMBS AGAINST THE SLIDE DURING FIRING BOTH LIGHTLY AND
FIRMLY AND COULD NOT DUPLICATE THE MALFUNCTION OF THE FIRING PIN STOP DROPPING OUT OF THE SLIDE.

Your thumb position against the slide was merely coincidental with the malfunction...

Perhaps the firing pin failed to return to it's proper position, either because of the plunger of because of the weak spring...

FP spring is easy, and in fact a commonly recommended replacement...

You can also remove the plunger and tiny spring from the slide and verify the plunger tunnel is clean. (Kind of tricky, requiring 3 hands and 2 toothpicks, as the Series 80 extractor must sometimes be partially removed about 1/16 of an inch to release the plunger and spring, at least that's been my experience with both a Series 80 OACP and my P14, identically equipped with fp safety..)

[wilmas2cool]

Thanks for the good info and reply. It is such a great handgun to learn about. I haven't changed any parts yet, just cleaned gun thoroughly. Another trip to the range and 50 more rounds of hardball with no malfunctions. Just a good, hard hitting transfer of lead downrange.