View Full Version : Slingshotting the CW9
Supercharger
01-07-2007, 21:48
I decided to give it another shot tonight and was succesful in chambering all but 1 round. I found I had to grasp the slide between the palm of my hand and all four fingers to get a good enough grip to slingshot it. Grabbed it, pulled with my left hand and pushed with my right and it would work everytime. The secret is to pull fast and hard otherwise the round nosedives.
Previously I had been grabbing the slide between my thumb and index finger and just couldn't apply the torque needed to pull the slide back without it slipping fom my hand and jamming the gun.
I want to carry it with an empty chamber unless I'm going to a bad area and needed to know it could slingshot reliably with the proper technique. I need more practice, but I'm much more comfortable with an empty chamber now.
BTW, anyone try the Fiocchi extrema XTP yet?
Why an empty chamber? Kahr has to be one of the safest designs around. Mine's stoked all the time and I've never felt unsafe.
Under stress the slingshot method is useless. You might as well throw the pistol at the bad guy and run like hell.
Supercharger
01-08-2007, 08:13
Originally posted by JohnJak
Under stress the slingshot method is useless. You might as well throw the pistol at the bad guy and run like hell.
Baloney. If I'm in position that I can't do a modified, "Israeli draw" then I've already placed myself in a losing situation.
The best gunfight is the one avoided by being aware of your surroundings and enviroment. Being I'm not a cop, there is no reason for me to be in a area that would call for carrying a loaded chamber. As I said, if I'm traveling to such an area that makes me uncomfortable, I can load the chamber before I arrive.
I'd also point out that if your carrying a loaded weapon with no external safety, especially if its behind your hip or in the small of back, someone could grab your gun while you are distracted and blow your brains out. If I don't have a thumb safety or the like to secure the trigger and buy myself a few seconds to escape, then I carry an empty chamber.
Colorado4Wheel
01-08-2007, 08:33
Originally posted by Supercharger
I want to carry it with an empty chamber unless I'm going to a bad area and needed to know it could slingshot reliably with the proper technique. I need more practice, but I'm much more comfortable with an empty chamber now.
BTW, anyone try the Fiocchi extrema XTP yet?
Carry it with a full chamber. Makes no sence to risk this procedure in the heat of the moment.
Kyglock22
01-08-2007, 09:47
+1 on what Colorado4wheel said. I NEVER carry a pistol without one in the pipe ready to go. I feel 100% safe when I carry my Glocks or Kahr with one in the chamber.
NMGlocker
01-08-2007, 18:40
Originally posted by Supercharger
Being I'm not a cop, there is no reason for me to be in a area that would call for carrying a loaded chamber. As I said, if I'm traveling to such an area that makes me uncomfortable, I can load the chamber before I arrive.
:rofl:
If I knew where the gunfight was gonna happen.... I wouldn't go there.
Lot's of people get mugged, raped, murdered in "good neighborhoods".
You have a serious MINDSET problem.
I might point out also that each time you "slingshot" to put a round in the chamber, you are risking the occurrence of AD/ND. Why not just carry with one in the pipe and leave it at that?
I do that. And I carry in both "good" and "bad" neighborhoods, 'cause you never know when "good goes bad".....Just my $0.02.
Originally posted by Lynn D
...Why not just carry with one in the pipe and leave it at that?
I do that. And I carry in both "good" and "bad" neighborhoods, 'cause you never know when "good goes bad".....Just my $0.02.
Amen, ++1
My purse was snatched in a "good" neighborhood. My home was invaded in a "good" neighborhood!
Good neighborhoods are more lucrative for criminals.
Supercharger
01-09-2007, 08:25
I appreciate the comments.
However, I have slingshotted every handgun I've owned hundreds of times with live ammo at the range, and never suffered a AD. Slingshotting itself will not cause an AD unless your gun has a mechanical problem...like a broken firing pin/striker.
Did you guys and gals ever stop to think that the round in your chamber may misfire?
Nothing is a "sure" thing.
I would also point out that if your home was invaded and purse snatched, by definition, you DON'T live in a good neighborhood!
We also know that the Isrealis carry on an empty chamber...and I'm willing to bet they have a little more experience in firefights than any of you. I think living in and protecting the state of Isreal poses far more danger than living anywhere in America. Are the Israelis stupid? Are you guys more experienced in warfare than they are?
I guess it all comes down to personal preference.
I loved my Kahr but this was the only weapon I have ever owned that I could get consistent hang-ups on 'slingshotting.' Chambered for me.
Colorado4Wheel
01-09-2007, 09:17
Originally posted by Supercharger
I appreciate the comments.
However, I have slingshotted every handgun I've owned hundreds of times with live ammo at the range, and never suffered a AD. Slingshotting itself will not cause an AD unless your gun has a mechanical problem...like a broken firing pin/striker.
Did you guys and gals ever stop to think that the round in your chamber may misfire?
Nothing is a "sure" thing.
I slingshot my TP9 all the time. I use it in IPDA and USPSA so I have to. As more rounds go thru the gun it's becomes more like every other gun in how it responds to this move. Before it was rough on the slingshot. Now it just does it like any other gun. I am someplace over 1000rds on my gun.
Originally posted by Supercharger
We also know that the Isrealis carry on an empty chamber...and I'm willing to bet they have a little more experience in firefights than any of you. I think living in and protecting the state of Isreal poses far more danger than living anywhere in America. Are the Israelis stupid? Are you guys more experienced in warfare than they are?
I guess it all comes down to personal preference.
It was a while ago when I visited Isreal but when I was there the police carried rifles on their street and handguns where a second weapon. Also, don't they use a SAO weapon. Thats not apples to apples as you need to cock that thing anyway so racking the slide is not much more work really. There is no benifit that I can see to not having a bullet in the chamber. Its not going to go off if it's dropped. You have to pull the trigger. If the gun is holstered (which it should be) then why would you NOT want one in the chamber.
This has been discussed before...
Page 12 of your Kahr manual says, "Do not chamber a round by pulling back on the slide and letting go of the slide. This may cause the slide to not go fully into battery."
I've read others have done it and never had a problem. But that's what the manual says and it's basically saying there is no guarantee if you slingshot it. I've done it at the range to chamber a round. But I keep a round in the chamber when I carry.
There was a time where I wouldn't keep a round in the chamber or wouldn't buy a gun without a manual safety or wouldn't consider owning a 1911 and carrying condition 1 but now I am comfortable with and prefer to carry a gun with no safety and loaded. You have to do what's comfortable with you but if your preferred method is unloaded and using an Israeli draw then, from Kahr's manual of arms, the gun is not for you.
Yes, I've heard that people can draw just as fast as if the gun was chambered using an Israeli draw with a ton of practice and the Israelis are not stupid. BUT, the reason they HAVE to use the draw is because it's policy. An idea to avoid negligent discharges and possibly some issue they had with the safeties on the weapon of choice at the time. But I think they would be just as happy and possibly prefer to carry condition 1 if given the choice.
Originally posted by Supercharger
Did you guys and gals ever stop to think that the round in your chamber may misfire?
No. By the bullet being faulty and going off by itself? That would be faulty ammo and would suck just as bad for it to go off in the magazine then out the barrel. If by saying the trigger mechanism going off by itself, you have to trust the design of the trigger mechanism in order to own and operate the gun. Glocks are designed where the firing pin is not in play unless the trigger is pulled. Kahr's has a preloaded system but again you have to be comfortable of it's design. If not then again maybe the gun is not for you.
I would also point out that if your home was invaded and purse snatched, by definition, you DON'T live in a good neighborhood!
You can do the best you can to find a home and live in an area where crime is low. But you will practically never find an area with NO crime whatsoever. That's why you carry because ***** happens even to the best of people at the best of places.
Colorado4Wheel
01-09-2007, 10:22
Originally posted by don527
You can do the best you can to find a home and live in an area where crime is low. But you will practically never find an area with NO crime whatsoever. That's why you carry because ***** happens even to the best of people at the best of places.
Or "Random acts of violence" are exactly that, "RANDOM" I used to work with troubled youth. They purposly went to the nice areas to steal things becuase thats where the nice stuff was.
Originally posted by Supercharger
I'd also point out that if your carrying a loaded weapon with no external safety, especially if its behind your hip or in the small of back, someone could grab your gun while you are distracted and blow your brains out. If I don't have a thumb safety or the like to secure the trigger and buy myself a few seconds to escape, then I carry an empty chamber.
If you are conceal carrying, the BG won't know you have a gun for them to grab until you are in a position to draw and fire safely. If you are distracted and attacked from behind, even without BG knowing you have a weapon, you wouldn't be in a position to draw and if he hasn't stabbed you or shot you in the back of the head with his own gun, you're first priority will be to get some distance from the BG.
Again, you need to do what is comfortable with you. But you really need to think carefully of the scenarios you are talking about and understand the logistics of them. Of course I could be all wrong and you right. :)
Originally posted by Supercharger
I would also point out that if your home was invaded and purse snatched, by definition, you DON'T live in a good neighborhood!Wow. I don't know what world you live in, but I wish I lived there. Because unfortunately I live in place called Reality. And here in Reality, the bad guys don't just stay in the 'hood, they can be anywhere at any time.
If you don't want to carry one in the chamber, that's fine, that's your choice. But I really hope you're not naive enough to actually believe that statement you just made.
Alot of break ins, rapes etc happens in good neighborhoods criminals love these areas b/c they are usually the neighborhoods that have money, nice houses, expensive toys, etc. thats criminals love to get their hands on. Also as long as you follow good gun safety rules and keep your finger out of the trigger unless your pointing at something your gonna shoot and have a good working gun you shouldnt have to worry about having one in the pipe. JMO.
Supercharger
01-10-2007, 08:35
Originally posted by Kalmah
Wow. I don't know what world you live in, but I wish I lived there. Because unfortunately I live in place called Reality. And here in Reality, the bad guys don't just stay in the 'hood, they can be anywhere at any time.
If you don't want to carry one in the chamber, that's fine, that's your choice. But I really hope you're not naive enough to actually believe that statement you just made.
I understand what your saying, but if she has been the victim of crime...including a home invasion...TWICE, it is you who is not living in reality if you think that the norm.
I don't think a homey drove out from the hood to steal this ladies purse. Sounds to me like that goon LIVES close by.The home invaders likely do live far away. But both crimes were attacks. Its not like someone stole her car radio. These were one on one crimes.
If you were victimized TWICE are you saying you'd still consider your Neiborhood "good"? I sure as hell wouldn't and I would have had a 4 sale sign up after the home invasion.
Originally posted by Supercharger
I understand what your saying, but if she has been the victim of crime...including a home invasion...TWICE, it is you who is not living in reality if you think that the norm.
I don't think a homey drove out from the hood to steal this ladies purse. Sounds to me like that goon LIVES close by.The home invaders likely do live far away. But both crimes were attacks. Its not like someone stole her car radio. These were one on one crimes.
If you were victimized TWICE are you saying you'd still consider your Neiborhood "good"? I sure as hell wouldn't and I would have had a 4 sale sign up after the home invasion. So you would define a "good" neighborhood as one that's a crime-free utopia, a "good" neighborhood is a place where bad things just don't happen. I hate to break it to you, but such a place doesn't exist.
I've seen burglaries, home invasions, shootings, drugs, assaults, sexual assaults, and other pleasant things in housing projects, trailer parks, well-kept middle class suburban neighborhoods, affluent million+ dollar home neighborhoods, and everything in between. Small towns and big cities. I can assure you, bad things can and do happen in any neighborhood at any time.
If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend these things don't happen, that's your business. If you want to let your guard down because you think you're in a "good" neighborhood, that's up to you. But don't try to tell me I'm not living in reality.
Originally posted by Supercharger
...I don't think a homey drove out from the hood to steal this ladies purse. Sounds to me like that goon LIVES close by.The home invaders likely do live far away. But both crimes were attacks. Its not like someone stole her car radio. These were one on one crimes.
I may be getting off the track here but... Let me say that these were "good" neighborhoods for large metropolitan cities. Perhaps the fact that they were in large cities precludes the likelihood of being in good neighborhoods. But rural or suburb life is certainly no guarantee you will be better off. Look on your state's Sex Offender website sometime and see where many of them live - EVERYWHERE!
The home invasion was in Waikiki where I rented an apartment after being (honorably) discharged from the Navy. Waikiki had, and still has luxury condos and co-ops throughout. It also has tourists and tourist hotels that probably help attract "outsiders". Generally though, poor criminals could not afford, nor did they seem to live in Waikiki. The police figured that they (3 of them actually - not 1 on 1) probably came from one of the more "modest" towns outside of Honolulu. In the end, 5-0 never found them, so I'll never know. I was lucky, BTW. They didn't rape me, but I did have cuts and lacerations on my neck and upper body and a cut, fat lip where they hit me with a telephone (a big one). They actually kept a pillow case over my head for the entire time so I wasn't even able to ID them. When they finished terrorizing me, they took everything of real value that I had, put it in my car and drove away. My car was found abandoned later that evening, about 10 blocks away - still in Waikiki, so perhaps they did live nearby after all.
Originally posted by Supercharger
...If you were victimized TWICE are you saying you'd still consider your Neiborhood "good"? I sure as hell wouldn't and I would have had a 4 sale sign up after the home invasion.
The purse snatching was in St. Louis, about 2 miles from my home at that time. Generally the area is a good one. But this happened at a hotel, on a major thoroughfare where criminals probably were looking for an easy mark.
The assailant himself actually had a friend driving a (stolen) getaway car. I didn't (couldn't) carry at that time, but it wouldn't have been prudent to shoot a fleeing purse snatcher in the back anyway. I did chase after him however (in my 2" heels) and actually caught up with the getaway car, hooked my arm around the B pillar, and got pulled down the parking lot for dozens of feet before realizing that was a bad idea. I let go just before a 90 degree turn, bounced off the pavement, and noticed I still had my car keys in my hand through all that. So yes, I ran back to my car and chased after them. I never did find them however, but po-po located my purse later that evening on the floorboard of an abandoned stolen car.
I do better these days by alarming my house (in a good neighborhood in Florida) :) and by paying a little bit more attention to what in the heck is going on around me. I also carry DAILY.
Pretty much more than anyone wanted to know, but it let's me vent by telling the stories.
I just re-read my own post. I pretty much jacked the thread.
Sorry...
NMGlocker
01-10-2007, 18:51
Here are some of the crime maps for the city I live in, straight from the local PD's web page.
Show me where the "good neighborhood" is.
Listed are the residential, auto, commercial burglary maps.
The violent crime maps would look similar if they posted them.
http://www.hobbspd.com/residential.html
http://www.hobbspd.com/auto.html
http://www.hobbspd.com/commercial.html
So after reading all the good input do you still want to slingshot.
wingsprint
01-13-2007, 08:33
you must follow Kahr's direction to chamber a round. You can not "ride the slide" or slingshot it and expect reliability. Call this a design flaw if you want, but don't be surprised if you have a problem if you fail to follow Kahr's direction. It's your fault, not the gun. It's kind of like putting Diesel in you gas power car and being pissed off at the manufacture that the engine wont run. Your Kahr is perfectly safe to carry with one in the pipe-as long as you do your part to be safe. :tongueout:
Colorado4Wheel
01-13-2007, 08:57
But I do slingshot mine all the time with no problems. I noticed a huge difference at the last range session. It's feeding just fine like that using FMJ. I don't even try with my HP as thats my carry ammo and I want zero risks with it.
Isn't anyone curious as to why almost every other gun on the planet will feed fine when you pull the slide back and let it go and the CW9 won't. The CW9s need to be "thrown" forward or released with the slide stop. I see this as a design screw-up. I won't carry mine anymore for this reason. It's too bad (I love the gun) but it sucks for a carry gun. What happens if the gun jams and you need to chamber a new round? "Oh wait a minute! The manual says use the slide release/stop." Let me lock it back, clear the round and then release the slide. Bulls#$t! I have plenty of other guns that function normally. No need to carry this POS.
A.Fischer
01-21-2007, 07:49
I slingshot mine every time. I've had zero feed/battery issues in the last 1000 rnds. I did have a few failures in the first 200 "break in" rnds though.
Supercharger
01-21-2007, 11:30
Don't know where your coming from with the POS statement Kramer. As I and others have stated here, you CAN slingshot successfully with some practice. In fact, it will slingshot normally with 6 rounds in the mag.
However, I don't think its a POS. Its a fine weapon that was meant to be carried with one in the pipe. If you stray from the design, and Kahr is very upfront about this, you may have problems.
If you can live with a six shooter, try slingshottong with only six in the mag. It will be as easy as anything else you own.
Originally posted by Supercharger
Don't know where your coming from with the POS statement Kramer. As I and others have stated here, you CAN slingshot successfully with some practice. In fact, it will slingshot normally with 6 rounds in the mag.
However, I don't think its a POS. Its a fine weapon that was meant to be carried with one in the pipe. If you stray from the design, and Kahr is very upfront about this, you may have problems.
If you can live with a six shooter, try slingshottong with only six in the mag. It will be as easy as anything else you own.
Ok maybe not a POS but a let-down to say the least. This is not normal for an automatic.
AZ Traveler
01-22-2007, 15:21
There are some Kahr owners who can slingshot their successfully all of the time. The issues three fold. Many do not "fully" retract the slide before letting go, others ride the slide when it is going forward. The other issue is the offset feed ramp and the short barrel and slide. It is this way by design. It allows the Kahr to be thinner and smaller then other single stack 9's and 40's. Any and/or all of these issues make the Kahr more difficult to slingshot.
It is my opinion, this is reason Kahr says to lock the slide back, and use the slide release. It is also my opinion, that Kahr mags are not "high" capacity, so I will not reduce my round count by not having a round chambered. I do carry a spare mag.
Some who successfully slingshot their Kahrs, do so getting a firm hold on the grip then briskly pulling the slide back with enough force that their hand slips off the back of the slide, when it is fully retracted, and "thumps" them in the chest. If you limp wrist it, it's not going work.
Polymer Kahrs are tight when new. They do loosen a little as the round count increases.
YMMV
I've read this thread twice yesterday and twice today. I just can't wrap my head around the need to "slingshot" your slide. Seems like a Hollywood thing to me. I mean, why do manufacturers build a firearm with a slide stop release lever? OH YEAH, it releases the slide!
I can get my CW to slingshot without any trouble, but I shouldn't have to.
AZ Traveler
01-22-2007, 19:43
A lot of people over many years were trained not to drop the slide with slide stop. (The 1911 has been around for almost 100 yrs.) On many semi-autos releasing the slide with the slide stop has resulted in worn slide stops and worn slide stop notches in the slide.
In the last 100 years there have been many advances in metallurgy. It is my opinion that Kahr understands their designs and involved metallurgy in producing their slides and would not recommend releasing using the slide stop to release the slide if if would cause undo wear.
I'm comfortable using the slide stop to release my Kahrs.
YMMV
hrminer92
01-22-2007, 22:31
Originally posted by Supercharger
I don't think a homey drove out from the hood to steal this ladies purse. Sounds to me like that goon LIVES close by.The home invaders likely do live far away. But both crimes were attacks. Its not like someone stole her car radio. These were one on one crimes.
in some cities all the separates 'the hood' from 'a nice area' is 3-4 blocks. Not to mention Klinton era Section 8 policies that distribute the scumbags into the nice areas - another fine example of your tax dollars at work.
A.Fischer
01-23-2007, 22:05
Originally posted by jsa
I've read this thread twice yesterday and twice today. I just can't wrap my head around the need to "slingshot" your slide. Seems like a Hollywood thing to me. I mean, why do manufacturers build a firearm with a slide stop release lever? OH YEAH, it releases the slide!
For me, the tap rack bang drill is much faster when grabbing the slide and "slingshotting". Not a Hollywood thing at all.
Hey Guys,
Hoping you can help me out here. I'm struggling to understand purely from a technical perspective the difference.... in terms of performance and impact on the firearm ....between chambering a round by releasing the slide lock vs. "slingshotting".
As best I can tell there should be absolutely no difference with respect to chambering the round....or not. By that I mean if a round is going to chamber it should do so under either method...and if there's gonna be a problem it will be so under either method. In both cases the slide slams forward from pretty much the same place....actually from a little further back in the case of slingshotting....and I refer only to "proper" slingshotting (ie. not riding the slide forward). This could be an argument for slingshotting so as to release the slide from a point of greater tension in the spring thereby having more force to grab and chamber the top round.
Where there is a difference is that when slingshotting the slide lock is allowed to easily release without the continuous pressure of the slide on it....something that can only be better for the slide lock...if only marginally. When releasing the slide lock you are "pulling" it down whilst it is under constant pressure from the slide....maybe won't wear out the slide lock during the lifetime of the weapon but nonetheless can't be better for it than slingshotting. So I'm struggling to understand why Kahr would advise against slingshotting.
Thanks.
Originally posted by piste
...So I'm struggling to understand why Kahr would advise against slingshotting.
Thanks.
Probably because "slingshotting" to some is not the same as "slingshotting" to all. Apparently Kahrs are picky enough to FTRB if if one doesn't slingshot like they mean it!
After 200-300 rounds, I was able to slingshot my PM9 all the time without a problem - perhaps because it had broken-in, or perhaps because I got more used to it on the Kahr.
jonboy20
02-26-2007, 19:23
Keep in mind that a lot of people who slingshot the gun ride the slide forward and not even know they are doing it. That can cause a major problem. That is one of the reasons that some are against doing it. There are some that can do it with no problem at all. Durring my first break in session of my CW9, I did not even bother to do it. But on the second range session, I slingshotted a few times with no problem. I will never be in a situation where I will need to sling shot it since I carry it chambered at all times. Sit with the manual, there it is a reason on why they say to drop the slide with the release.
When I first acquired and shot my PM9, I found the sites to be off 2" to the right. I told one of the employees/RO (who is also full-time LE and a competition shooter) at the range about it and he promptly said that it was "me", and that he would shoot it and check it. (probably to demonstrate that it was something I was doing)
He walked up to the firing line and slingshotted my Kahr so hard, I thought he was going to pull the slide right off the gun. After that, I understood what "slingshotting the Kahr" really meant and have followed his lead, never having a problem.
Generally, the point is moot as I carry chambered as well. (uh, oh - Supercharger's gonna be all over me :) ) There is certainly a time when you may need to do it in a hurry, though - tap-rack-bang comes to mind!
BTW, after the RO fired my Kahr and found his group 2" to the right, he drifted my site for me. :tongueout:
Originally posted by piste
...So I'm struggling to understand why Kahr would advise against slingshotting.
Some folks are forgetting that you're dealing with one of the most compact full-power pistol designs on the market. Because of the dimensions, it is easier to foul up the "slingshot" procedure and cause a misfeed than it would be with larger pistols - or with similar sized pistols with softer springs due to less powerful calibers, for that matter.
Everything in firearm design is a trade-off. With the Kahr, you are getting one of the premier compact autos at the price of having to deal with a short-reciprocating slide that is more sensitive to interference of slide velocity than, say, a Browning HiPower. You can “slingshot” the slide, but you have to be more deliberate about doing it than with other pistols to ensure a good feed.
The instant and emergency is staring you in the face is not the time to test your ability to pull off such a move – especially with a sub-compact pistol. Furthermore – repeated chambering and rechambering of a given round is a recipe for future feed failure. The only failure to feed that I have ever had with my K9 (which I’ve owned for far longer than the vast majority of the rest of you here) was with a round that had been chambered a few times and then reloaded below a fresh round at the top of the mag. That particular round was recovered and measured, and found to be far out of spec – due to repeated slamming into the chamber. If you must load & unload your chamber, it is best to discard each round that has already been chambered once to the “practice ammo” pile, and load a fresh round.
Supercharger - Kahr has a design that is as safe to carry loaded and chambered as any modern DA revolver. I doubt that you would go about with a revolver prepped to drop the hammer on an empty chamber – so why would you do the same with your defensive pistol? If you take the time to learn how your pistol works (as you should be doing when you detail-strip it for regular cleaning – you are doing this, right?) you will see that the design prohibits the mechanism from firing unless the trigger is pulled through it’s stroke. This is a design that has been inspected and accepted by numerous law enforcement agencies as acceptable for back-up and concealment carry. I think you would find, if you investigated, that few – if any - of these agencies espouse chamber-empty carry. If you really think you must carry this way, perhaps you are not really prepared to deal with the realities involved. Perhaps you should look into some formal training from one of the mainstream schools of defensive handgunning.
Eh???...I'm still where I was on this. Yeah apparently pulling something and letting it go (slingshotting) to some is a highly complex task that has a wide variety of ways to do it... But to me there's only one way to do it so slingshotting is slingshotting is slingshotting....You can't mess it up short of riding the slide ....there's no two ways to do it...so I still don't get all this other malarkey. Worried about "pulling off" such a complex maneuver?? Huh? I'm MUCH more comfortable banging that new mag home and slingshotting than I am trying to find the slide release and pull down on it against the resistance of the slide.
Originally posted by FreeMe
Some folks are forgetting that you're dealing with one of the most compact full-power pistol designs on the market. Because of the dimensions, it is easier to foul up the "slingshot" procedure and cause a misfeed than it would be with larger pistols - or with similar sized pistols with softer springs due to less powerful calibers, for that matter.
Bingo.
Some may have seen my sniveling in other threads. I've been having major issues with my PM9.
Guess why?
Slingshotting.
The manual says not to do it. I read it, scratched my head and thought what bull****. I thought I would follow what the manual said but went to my old habbits without thinking while trying to feed hollow points the other day.
No, they are serious about what they say in the manual. Yes some are slingshotting it with no problems. This does not mean they won't have a problem in the future.
The weapon's designers put the information in the manual for a reason because they designed its internals. Follow it, because it makes things more reliable.
I still need to regain confidence in my PM9 and I still want to sell it. Perhaps after some more practice I can like it again. At the moment it disgusts me but the information in the manual is correct.
GlockTom
03-23-2007, 09:53
Originally posted by Kramer
I have plenty of other guns that function normally. No need to carry this POS.
I agree... you should not be subjected to carrying that inferior piece... to save you the intense displeasure, feel free to pack it up and send it to me... I will make sure that no one else (besides me) is subjected to such an inferior product!
:rofl: :laughabove: :rofl: :laughabove: :rofl: :laughabove: :rofl:
Tom
Colorado4Wheel
03-23-2007, 10:16
For what it worth,
At first my TP9 did not like to slingshot. After 1K rounds I do it all the time. It's not a issue. Never any ftf, etc. PERFECT.
Colorado4Wheel
03-23-2007, 10:19
Originally posted by jsa
I've read this thread twice yesterday and twice today. I just can't wrap my head around the need to "slingshot" your slide. Seems like a Hollywood thing to me. I mean, why do manufacturers build a firearm with a slide stop release lever? OH YEAH, it releases the slide!
You do it during IDPA and other match's out of convience. You put your gun into your holster empty and with the trigger just having been pulled on the empty chamber. At the start of a match you load a round with a slingshot. You could lock the slide but with all the guys watching you would look different as your the only one doing that. In a carry situation you would not need a slingshot unless you had a failure of some sort.
Seems that rather than yanking back on the slide with your weaker hand, it would be more of a positive action to hold the slide with your weak hand and push the grip forward with your firing hand. No need to worry about riding the slide because you've just pushed the firearm into a firing position (or natural point of aim). This is essentially the same as slingshotting but (IMO) more reliable of an action.
As for IDPA, I've never been subjected to such events. Maybe some kind soul will extend me an invite sometime...I'd love to experience it.
Colorado4Wheel
03-23-2007, 23:22
Originally posted by jsa
As for IDPA, I've never been subjected to such events. Maybe some kind soul will extend me an invite sometime...I'd love to experience it.
You just show up early to take a safty class. It's that easy. Search IDPA and find the local group. They are very helpful.
Originally posted by jsa
Seems that rather than yanking back on the slide with your weaker hand, it would be more of a positive action to hold the slide with your weak hand and push the grip forward with your firing hand...
Yep - that's close. Grasp the the slide with your weak hand over the top of the slide - not from behind. Push both hands together and let the slide go when it hits the end of it's travel. I find that I tend to hold my weak hand in place and let the grip hand do most of the movement. Works every time.
But I don't generally use this method for reloads, because my K9 is almost always either loaded or locked open. I never carry it "chamber empty" - ever. :upeyes:
Originally posted by Enzo
...I still need to regain confidence in my PM9 and I still want to sell it. Perhaps after some more practice I can like it again. At the moment it disgusts me but the information in the manual is correct.
Enzo - I think I missed that you are in Boise until now. I'd be interested in letting you try out my K9 at the range if you'd let me try out your PM9.
Originally posted by FreeMe
Enzo - I think I missed that you are in Boise until now. I'd be interested in letting you try out my K9 at the range if you'd let me try out your PM9.
No problem.
But I have an idea. You drop by and pick up the PM9, go put 500 or so break-in rounds through it and just drop it back off when you are done. :supergrin:
There is absolutely ZERO mechanical difference between slingshotting and releasing the slide lock lever. Also there is no way to "foul up" or "mess up" slingshotting short of riding the slide. At least not that anyone on this thread has been able to explain.....yet.
If slingshotting is more problematic to a PM9 than releasing the slide lock for some reason...well that's just reason #43 for not buying that POS in the first place! Unless you are lonely and need a "Dottie" to talk to.
Originally posted by piste
There is absolutely ZERO mechanical difference between slingshotting and releasing the slide lock lever. Also there is no way to "foul up" or "mess up" slingshotting short of riding the slide. At least not that anyone on this thread has been able to explain.....yet.
If slingshotting is more problematic to a PM9 than releasing the slide lock for some reason...well that's just reason #43 for not buying that POS in the first place! Unless you are lonely and need a "Dottie" to talk to.
OK thanks for that wisdom. Don't slingshot the PM9. It doesn't like it. Wether you agree or not doesn't matter.
Enzo,
Didn't say I agreed or disagreed with experiences folks are having with the PM9 in terms of the gun liking use of the slide release but not liking slingshotting. For all I know that's only cuz someone's riding the slide...or not.
Just trying to further my understanding is all. Maybe someone else can help with that.
Seems like lots of folks posting about difference between using slingshot technique and slide release...but nobody can explain the difference in terms of impact on a gun in any meaningful detail.
You are welcome for the wisdom. Got more where that came from. ;)
Colorado4Wheel
03-25-2007, 09:26
Originally posted by piste
Seems like lots of folks posting about difference between using slingshot technique and slide release...but nobody can explain the difference in terms of impact on a gun in any meaningful detail.
You don't need to be able to explain why to know that it doesn't work well. My TP9 did not like slingshot at all to start with, now it doesn't care at all. I don't know why, don't really care why, I just know it's true. Seems the PM9 is the same if not worse in that regard. Don't need to know why, don't care either. It's doesn't need to make sence. Bees can fly but science once said they didn't know how they could. They still flew.
Originally posted by Colorado4Wheel
You don't need to be able to explain why to know that it doesn't work well. My TP9 did not like slingshot at all to start with, now it doesn't care at all. I don't know why, don't really care why, I just know it's true. Seems the PM9 is the same if not worse in that regard. Don't need to know why, don't care either. It's doesn't need to make sence. Bees can fly but science once said they didn't know how they could. They still flew.
That's all I was trying to say too. The manual says not to do it. I didn't believe it and I had problems.
Since I quit sling shotting I'm a happier PM9 owner. I still need to run some more ammo through to regain confidence but that was my particular problem.
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