FL Handgun Law Question [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : FL Handgun Law Question


KenBGlock19
01-08-2007, 01:03
I have a club member that is 20 years old that recieved an XD45 for Xmas...is it legal for him to shoot the weapon in the state of FL at a public range? If not, what does he have to do in order to go shootin? The rule slips my mind...never had to worry about it myself, as I bought it after I was 21.

Thanks,
Ken

HILLSIDEBLUE
01-08-2007, 01:20
I think you should call the Sheriff's office in the County you live in.......I know there are private ranges that don't care how old shooters are if they show up with someone over 21, but the Sheriff will know what the law says........

John

KenBGlock19
01-08-2007, 01:26
Thanks a lot!

Ken

stukibuilt
01-08-2007, 22:41
If I'm not mistaken, he just needs to be accompanied by an adult 21 years of age or older.

J T
01-08-2007, 23:05
He is fine as long he is at least 18.
He can't buy ammo for it though.

lincoln25
01-08-2007, 23:09
FL Statute 790.25(5):

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
---------------------

That being said, IMO your 20-yr old club member should be fine. He can legally convey his firearm and ammo in his car to and from the gun range. Heck, he can convey it in his car all the time. We (I'm an LEO in Daytona) follow the "three step rule" (a rule of thumb) when determining "concealed carry" in a conveyance. And the statute allows anyone over the age of 18 to convey a firearm in their car (as long as their not a felon, mentally ill, etc, etc).

This Statute, in another subsection, also allows your club member to carry his (unloaded) weapon from his house to his car, and from his car into the club.

Of course, he can't legally buy his own ammo...
Here's a link: FL Statute 790.25 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=firearms&URL=CH0790/Sec25.HTM)

KenBGlock19
01-09-2007, 07:32
Lincoln25,

Know anyone that would be willing to come speak to our club this semester? I just started a Firearms Club at ERAU - would love to have a LEO come speak to us!

PM me if you are able to help.

Thanks,
Ken

one"Lucky"shot
01-09-2007, 12:52
Your a LEO and you follow a "three step rule"?? can you explain to the rest of us what this rule is?.... I it not in any FL laws.:upeyes:

Originally posted by lincoln25



---------------------

That being said, IMO your 20-yr old club member should be fine. He can legally convey his firearm and ammo in his car to and from the gun range. Heck, he can convey it in his car all the time. We (I'm an LEO in Daytona) follow the "three step rule" (a rule of thumb) when determining "concealed carry" in a conveyance. And the statute allows anyone over the age of 18 to convey a firearm in their car (as long as their not a felon, mentally ill, etc, etc).

This Statute, in another subsection, also allows your club member to carry his (unloaded) weapon from his house to his car, and from his car into the club.

Of course, he can't legally buy his own ammo...
Here's a link: FL Statute 790.25 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=firearms&URL=CH0790/Sec25.HTM) [/B]

lincoln25
01-09-2007, 16:31
Originally posted by one"Lucky"shot
Your a LEO and you follow a "three step rule"?? can you explain to the rest of us what this rule is?.... I it not in any FL laws.:upeyes:

As noted in my post, it's a rule of "thumb," not of law.

The law states anyone over the age of 18 (who is legally able otherwise) may carry a concealed firearm in a conveyance, if the firearm is not readily accessible.

I don't know where the three step "rule" started, be it LEO or case law (in which case it would be a rule of law, though not necc. addressed in Statute), but it's a way to see if the "not readily accessible" standard is met.

Therefore, we ask that there be at least 3 steps in the process of getting out your firearm from it's hiding place. Ie: 1) open glove box, 2) open zipper case, 3) take out firearm.

"Readily accessible" could be further described as loaded and under the front of your seat, or tucked between the seats.

Hope this helped.

lincoln25
01-09-2007, 16:33
Originally posted by KenBGlock19
Lincoln25,

Know anyone that would be willing to come speak to our club this semester? I just started a Firearms Club at ERAU - would love to have a LEO come speak to us!

PM me if you are able to help.

Thanks,
Ken

What topic(s)?
And, possibly. If not me, than someone.

bubbatime
01-09-2007, 20:11
Originally posted by lincoln25
As noted in my post, it's a rule of "thumb," not of law.

The law states anyone over the age of 18 (who is legally able otherwise) may carry a concealed firearm in a conveyance, if the firearm is not readily accessible.

I don't know where the three step "rule" started, be it LEO or case law (in which case it would be a rule of law, though not necc. addressed in Statute), but it's a way to see if the "not readily accessible" standard is met.

Therefore, we ask that there be at least 3 steps in the process of getting out your firearm from it's hiding place. Ie: 1) open glove box, 2) open zipper case, 3) take out firearm.

"Readily accessible" could be further described as loaded and under the front of your seat, or tucked between the seats.

Hope this helped.

In Florida, the gun CAN be readily accessible as long as it is "securely encased." All that entails is that the gun be in a zippered gun case, snapped holster, glove box, center console with a lid, or a box with a lid.

#2 above (open zipper case) is not necessary in Florida if the gun is in a glove box.

mserr
01-09-2007, 20:15
gun laws are weird. I'm only 19. I can't buy a handgun from a dealer but i can buy one at a gun show or say i know somebody that is selling one. Also I can carry a handgun openly without any adult over 21 or go to the range on my own also. Can't get a CCW or buy ammo (at most places) until I'm 21 though. Still cool being 19 and having myself a nice glock, perfectly legal. Here in New Mexico its pretty badass because your car is an extension of your home so you can carry concealed on you or anywhere in the car as long as you are still in the car of course. Once you get out and the gun is still concealed on you, it is then illegal, with the exception of the 3 foot rule, basically allowing you to transfer the concealed weapon to your trunk or whatever without having to worry about "breaking the law". Also, any time i find myself asking a question about the state laws, http://www.stategunlaws.org/ is an awesome site.

mserr
01-09-2007, 20:22
delete

jhokie
01-09-2007, 20:30
So Lincoln25... just wondering...

If I have a loaded handgun that is "securely encased" as per the Florida statutes (for example in a zipped duffle bag in my car), but only requires 2 steps to get to (for example unzip duffle bag, retrieve gun), you're going to arrest me?

So you're going to waste my time, and waste your time, and waste tons of taxpayer money only to eventually find me innocent after you've arrested me because I didn't follow your made up "three step rule"?

Or are you actually basing this rule on a ruling that a judge has made on "securely encased"?

Not trying to be an ahole here, but I think when you're talking about something as serious as a criminal conviction over this, you should follow the statutes, not a made up rule of thumb. Admittingly, there is some confusion over this. However, I have been taught in a CCW class that a "three-step-rule" is completely made-up and fictional, so you could understand how upset I would be if I was arrested because I was not following this informal rule (of course that doesnt pertain to me anyway with a CWP, but it's the principle of the thing).

J T
01-09-2007, 22:49
There is no such thing as a 3-step (or 2-step) rule in either the Florida Statutes or any case law that I'm aware of. You can ask for whatever you want...the answer is no.

The statute is perfectly clear; securely encased or not readily accessible. Not both, and not some imaginary "rule" someone made up.

I highly recommend Jon Gutmacher's book for those who want to understand the real firearms laws in Florida: http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/indexbook.shtml

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

lincoln25
01-09-2007, 23:31
Originally posted by jhokie
So Lincoln25... just wondering...

If I have a loaded handgun that is "securely encased" as per the Florida statutes (for example in a zipped duffle bag in my car), but only requires 2 steps to get to (for example unzip duffle bag, retrieve gun), you're going to arrest me?

So you're going to waste my time, and waste your time, and waste tons of taxpayer money only to eventually find me innocent after you've arrested me because I didn't follow your made up "three step rule"?

Or are you actually basing this rule on a ruling that a judge has made on "securely encased"?

Not trying to be an ahole here, but I think when you're talking about something as serious as a criminal conviction over this, you should follow the statutes, not a made up rule of thumb. Admittingly, there is some confusion over this. However, I have been taught in a CCW class that a "three-step-rule" is completely made-up and fictional, so you could understand how upset I would be if I was arrested because I was not following this informal rule (of course that doesnt pertain to me anyway with a CWP, but it's the principle of the thing).

JH: If your duffle in in your back seat, no. If your duffle is on the front seat, and your gun is piled in with clothes, through which you would have to rummage, no. It's not "readily accessible" in my mind, or to any reasonable person. Again, as I said the 3-step rule is a "rule of thumb."

And, how would YOU apply the Statute on the street? Knowing that lawyers will Monday morning QB your every decision? I'm not asking you to adhere completely to the "three step rule," only to FL Statute (in FL - I don't know what state you're in). The "rule" is given as a guideline and, IMO, it's a fair guideline.

As I posted before, I don't know any case law that has been handed down on this; but if it came out of case law, then it is, in fact, a legal interpretation and applicable, until stricken by a higher court.
--
Bubbatime: the Statute states that the gun may NOT be "readily accessible" in a conveyance. Note that this does not apply to CCF holders - but was posted in response to Ken's question regarding his group memeber who is not old enough to have a CCF license.

If you wish to say that a loaded handgun flopping around without a holster/rag case, etc, in an unlocked glove box is not readily accessible, I would beg to differ. I argue that the glovebox would have to be locked in that case to make it legal.

lincoln25
01-09-2007, 23:40
Originally posted by J T
There is no such thing as a 3-step (or 2-step) rule in either the Florida Statutes or any case law that I'm aware of. You can ask for whatever you want...the answer is no.

The statute is perfectly clear; securely encased or not readily accessible. Not both, and not some imaginary "rule" someone made up.

I highly recommend Jon Gutmacher's book for those who want to understand the real firearms laws in Florida: http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/indexbook.shtml

Thanks for the link, however the Statute states "...if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is OTHERWISE not readily accessible for immediate use."

Note the emphasis on the word otherwise - changes the meaning a little bit in the Statute, no? It means that, yes, it IS both. The "securely encased" must be in a manner in which the firearm IS NOT readily accessible.

"Secured" in a snap holster and tucked next to the driver's seat could be argued as securely encased. It is MOST CERTAINLY readily accessible.

So, when your safety is on the line during the traffic stop of some guy that you've met for the first time, would YOU prefer this version of "securely encased?"

As previosly posted, this does not apply to all the non-felon, law-abiding citizens who have applied for and received the CCF in FL.

J T
01-10-2007, 00:28
Originally posted by lincoln25
Thanks for the link, however the Statute states "...if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is OTHERWISE not readily accessible for immediate use."

Note the emphasis on the word otherwise - changes the meaning a little bit in the Statute, no? It means that, yes, it IS both. The "securely encased" must be in a manner in which the firearm IS NOT readily accessible.

"Secured" in a snap holster and tucked next to the driver's seat could be argued as securely encased. It is MOST CERTAINLY readily accessible.

So, when your safety is on the line during the traffic stop of some guy that you've met for the first time, would YOU prefer this version of "securely encased?"

As previously posted, this does not apply to all the non-felon, law-abiding citizens who have applied for and received the CCF in FL.
The statute puts no emphasis on "otherwise." It specifically states that the firearm can be:
a. securely encased
OR
b. otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use

Case law is plentiful on this issue. A cardboard box with the lid on is securely encased. So is a purse or briefcase. Sitting on the passenger seat in a snapped holster covered by a newspaper is OK too. If it's in the console or glove box or other container, it does not need to be in a holster (mine is usually in the console unholstered when I'm driving).

And none of these methods require a CWFL, for which my 19-year old daughter and I are both thankful.

one"Lucky"shot
01-10-2007, 01:16
Originally posted by lincoln25
I argue that the glovebox would have to be locked in that case to make it legal.


I (IMHO) think your an i***t and need to read the law BEFOR YOU TRY TO ENFORCE THEM!!:upeyes: I don't want to waist my any more of my time with this thread but I am sure that you will be corrected in your thoughts, that it is clearly stated, that the glove box does not need to be locked.

As a side note in FL it is NOT a "CCF", it is a (as stated on the card itself) "CONCEALED WEAPON OR FIREARM LICENSE". As accepted slang in most areas it is a CCW (Carry Concealed WEAPON), some states only allow for firearm carry, some don't specify concealed....Learn the laws your paid to up hold.

HardcoreKeith
01-10-2007, 01:36
Dang. I'm getting irritated.

lincoln25
01-10-2007, 09:28
Originally posted by J T
The statute puts no emphasis on "otherwise." It specifically states that the firearm can be:
a. securely encased
OR
b. otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use

Case law is plentiful on this issue. A cardboard box with the lid on is securely encased. So is a purse or briefcase. Sitting on the passenger seat in a snapped holster covered by a newspaper is OK too. If it's in the console or glove box or other container, it does not need to be in a holster (mine is usually in the console unholstered when I'm driving).

And none of these methods require a CWFL, for which my 19-year old daughter and I are both thankful.

Again, it's a call made on the street by a cop doing a thankless job (further emphasis on "thankless" when you read Luckyshot's post above), and is subject to a reasonable person's review of each situation. For a cop, that review must sometimes take place in a matters of seconds.

None of my CCF arrests have been overturned, and there have been at least several other situtations where I have not arrested others who have had a firearm concealed in their vehicle is several different ways - again, they were 1) of age (18); 2) were not convicted felons; 3) did not have, nor appeared to be under the influence of drugs and alcohol; 4) appeared not to be engaged in any other criminal activity.

lincoln25
01-10-2007, 09:29
Originally posted by one"Lucky"shot
I (IMHO) think your an i***t and need to read the law BEFOR YOU TRY TO ENFORCE THEM!!:upeyes: I don't want to waist my any more of my time with this thread but I am sure that you will be corrected in your thoughts, that it is clearly stated, that the glove box does not need to be locked.

As a side note in FL it is NOT a "CCF", it is a (as stated on the card itself) "CONCEALED WEAPON OR FIREARM LICENSE". As accepted slang in most areas it is a CCW (Carry Concealed WEAPON), some states only allow for firearm carry, some don't specify concealed....Learn the laws your paid to up hold.

Opinions vary. You are welcome to yours.

I challenge you to complete a few "ride alongs" with your local agency.

bubbatime
01-10-2007, 14:41
Originally posted by lincoln25
Again, it's a call made on the street by a cop doing a thankless job (further emphasis on "thankless" when you read Luckyshot's post above), and is subject to a reasonable person's review of each situation. For a cop, that review must sometimes take place in a matters of seconds.

None of my CCF arrests have been overturned, and there have been at least several other situations where I have not arrested others who have had a firearm concealed in their vehicle is several different ways - again, they were 1) of age (18); 2) were not convicted felons; 3) did not have, nor appeared to be under the influence of drugs and alcohol; 4) appeared not to be engaged in any other criminal activity.

I have read numerous case law on this very subject. I don't consider myself an expert, but damn close in FL car carry guidelines.

As stated earlier, it is perfectly legal to carry a loaded gun in a shoe box without a holster on the passenger seat. Is it readily accessible? You bet your ass it is readily accessible. Is it securely encased as defined by case law (and thus legal)? Yes!!

It is also perfectly legal to carry a loaded handgun in the trunk without a holster because it is not readily accessible.

Further, loaded shotguns and rifles can be carried anywhere in the vehicle, including on the front floor between the drivers feet and still be perfectly legal.

And still further, a 9mm (or .40 or .45) handgun can be stored on the floorboard or anywhere in the vehicle WITHOUT a holster if there is no 9mm ammunition located anywhere in the car. Case law has stated that a firearm is useless without ammunition and does not need to be securely encased or not readily accessible if there is no ammunition available for the weapon.

Of course laws are all subjective and are interpreted by the courts.

If none of your "3 steps" arrest were overturned, then you have yet to go against a competent attorney familiar with case law on the subject. Most people take the plea nowadays since they are threatened with serious jail time if they don't take the plea. But you knew that :thumbsup:

I don't think you should really interpret car carry laws for average Joe Citizen. If Mr. Joe Citizen is polite, looks like a nice member of society, then give him his ticket and be on your way. Now if he is Mr. Crack dealer, been arrested 50+ times, parasite to society, then by all means hook his ass up and take him. As the saying goes,"You might beat the charge, but you won't beat the ride."

Usingmyrights
01-11-2007, 09:42
Originally posted by J T
He is fine as long he is at least 18.
He can't buy ammo for it though.

Actually he can. You can put 45acp in a carbine (longgun) so its legal to sell. Thats from the ATF itself. If it can be used in a long gun you can sell it. So .44mag, .357, 9mm, .40, .45, etc are all legal to sell to someone over age 18.

Usingmyrights
01-11-2007, 09:49
Originally posted by lincoln25
Bubbatime: the Statute states that the gun may NOT be "readily accessible" in a conveyance. Note that this does not apply to CCF holders - but was posted in response to Ken's question regarding his group memeber who is not old enough to have a CCF license.

If you wish to say that a loaded handgun flopping around without a holster/rag case, etc, in an unlocked glove box is not readily accessible, I would beg to differ. I argue that the glovebox would have to be locked in that case to make it legal. [/B]

Not per FL statute. It even says in the statute that it doesn't have to be locked.

Rusty Shackleford
01-11-2007, 10:12
Good God...

THIS LAW IS NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND.. it's one of the few firearms laws in FL that is very straight-forward. Those of us with an elementary school education understand the meaning of the word "or," and the legal definitions of "securely encased" and "not readily accesible" are spelled out in the statutes.

In addition to the plain English statutes, there is a MOUNTAIN of case law on the topic, all of which contradicts the nonsense coming from this "LEO".

Perhaps at one time there were local jurisdictions with "three step rule" laws.. but it's been quite a while since FL's preemption law went into effect. It is a myth that is perpetuated by the misinformed who can't be bothered to familiarize themselves with the law.

Gmountain
01-11-2007, 12:45
Originally posted by lincoln25


If you wish to say that a loaded handgun flopping around without a holster/rag case, etc, in an unlocked glove box is not readily accessible, I would beg to differ. I argue that the glovebox would have to be locked in that case to make it legal.[/B]

The fact that you call yourself a LEO and choose not to apply the law as clearly written is downright scary.

What other laws do you choose not to follow?

EdTracker
01-11-2007, 13:44
Cut the man some slack, most LEO's aren't lawyers. That being said One in that position (LEO) should be smart enough not to post info on a public bulletin board unless you know (meaning a thorough comprehension of) the law.

Kudos to everyone whom actually posted the laws in question.

It just goes to show that you should have a copy of the laws (Gutmacher's book) with you in your car in case you have to inform the uninformed what the actual laws are.

My best guess is a rookie or a wannabe would bring up a "three step rule". How about a 12 step program? Maybe he was referring to swing dancing with "triple step rule", that is a common mistake in FL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_step

In all my discussions with the fine full time LEO’s in Florida never once did they bring up a three step rule. Do you have a Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm License but if you look on the back of it the card clearly states in large bold letters that you should reference:

Direct Inquiries To:
Florida Department of Agriculture & Consumer Services
Division of Licensing, P.O. Box 6687
Tallahassee, FL 32314-6687
850/245-5649

Gmountain
01-11-2007, 14:55
Originally posted by EdTracker
Cut the man some slack, most LEO's aren't lawyers. That being said One in that position (LEO) should be smart enough not to post info on a public bulletin board unless you know (meaning a thorough comprehension of) the law.



I'm sorry, but when he says he doesn't interpret the law the way it is clearly written, it indicates two things:
1. He knows what the law says,
2. He doesn't care what it says.

Police just can't arrest people for the hell of it. They have to know what is legal and what isn't.

lincoln25
01-11-2007, 22:52
Originally posted by Gmountain
I'm sorry, but when he says he doesn't interpret the law the way it is clearly written, it indicates two things:
1. He knows what the law says,
2. He doesn't care what it says.

Police just can't arrest people for the hell of it. They have to know what is legal and what isn't.

Actually, I am an honest cop, who tries to do the right thing. I am also a gun enthusiast, a CCF holder, and a nice guy. I also believe that the NRA has our basic freedoms in mind, and that the word (or even idea of ) "God" should not be stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance.

I also try my damndest to apply FL laws to the letter and in the spirit of the law. I sleep very well at night.

That being said, I honestly believe that all of my arrests were valid and good. I further believe that all of the people whom I have encountered that were carrying responsibly and legally, I have let go.

I have also counseled other officers against making a shaky arrest when they have encountered someone carrying legally. So, my karma is clean, in my mind.

If you come to my beat, you will get a fair shake, regardless of your creed, color, or firearm preference. But, I guarantee you that my local State Attorney's Office will back me up on my view of this law, based on previous experience.

That being said, I stand by the "3-step GUIDELINE" as being a fair way for people who don't hold a CCF as a way to judge a legal way of conveying a firearm, so as not to get arrested in most any jurisdiction in FL (barring ports or National and State Forest areas).

I am done with this thread, and you may bash me all you want for my attempt at fair interpretation.

lincoln25
01-11-2007, 22:56
Originally posted by Rusty Shackleford
In addition to the plain English statutes, there is a MOUNTAIN of case law on the topic, all of which contradicts the nonsense coming from this "LEO".

please cite it.

J T
01-11-2007, 23:11
Originally posted by lincoln25
please cite it.
Please just do yourself a favor and spend the $26.95 to buy a copy of Florida Firearms: Law, Use and Ownership." There are over 200 footnotes in the book, many of which are case law citations.

You can believe whatever you want about yourself. Your continuing statements prove something quite different.

Oh, and as my final entry in this thread, there's still no such thing as a 3-step rule. Learn the law before you try to enforce it.

Gmountain
01-12-2007, 06:07
Originally posted by lincoln25

I am done with this thread, and you may bash me all you want for my attempt at fair interpretation.

The statute says "in a glove box, whether or not locked"

How is this open to interpretation? You are operating outside the law.

Gmountain
01-12-2007, 06:24
Originally posted by lincoln25
please cite it.

Motorist came within exception to offense of carrying concealed firearm where pistol was contained in closed box which required lid or cover to be opened for access. Gemmill v. State, App. 4 Dist., 657 So.2d 900 (1995).

“Securely encased” is defined as:

in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

§ 790.001(16), Fla.Stat. (1993) (emphasis added).

The issue on appeal as to the first count is whether the gun was concealed, i.e., whether the box was closed thus requiring a lid to be opened for access. Officer Hall was the first person to search Gemmill's van and the only witness to testify as to the closure of the box. On cross-examination, Hall admitted that the box in which the gun was later recovered was closed when he first observed it. Officer Godder searched and eventually found the instant gun but never testified as to whether the box contained a lid. Consequently, the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn from the state's evidence is that Hall removed the box's lid when he looked in the closed box. Accordingly, based upon the state's own evidence, Gemmill's gun was securely encased as it was contained in a closed box which required a lid or cover to be opened for access. Instead of proving concealment of a firearm, the state proved that Gemmill's possession of the firearm was lawful. Thus, Gemmill was wrongfully convicted of a crime that never occurred

Firearm, found in defendant's zippered hand purse with wallet, driver's license, and other forms of identification, was encased in a "gun case," so that defendant could not be prosecuted for carrying a concealed weapon that was not securely encased or that was readily accessible for immediate use. Alexander v. State, 477 So.2d 557 (1985).

Also, City of Miami v. Swift, 481 So.2d 26

Urquiola v. State, 590 So.2d 497
Although the law enforcement officers and apparently the trial court, believe that the container lid must be secured by a zipper, or attached in some way or there will be a violation of Section 790.25(5), Florida Statutes (1989), we have held that a glove compartment in an automobile does not have to be locked to be a secure container.

You can start there.

SW.FLA.glocker
01-12-2007, 07:08
When I am wrong I admit it. Maybe I am super human or something. There is no shame in being wrong. Shame should come from being wrong and ignoring it. I know Gt is not the "end all" of information but some of the info. here looks to be fairly accurate. I see this problem a lot here on GT.

Kingslayer
01-12-2007, 15:21
Originally posted by lincoln25
[COLOR=blue]
If you come to my beat, you will get a fair shake, regardless of your creed, color, or firearm preference. But, I guarantee you that my local State Attorney's Office will back me up on my view of this law, based on previous experience.

COLOR]

I'm sorry but I would not get a fair shake in your beat. You are so wrong in your interpretation of this law that I would honestly like to know your beat so I can go out of my way to avoid being falsely arrested.

I used to work for the 20th Circuit SAO and every attorney there clearly understood the gun laws and they didn't agree with you. I'm going to gaurantee that your local SAO tells you to pound sand.

I carry a weapon in my glove box without a holster and without CCW EVERY DAY. That is how much confidence I have that you are simply wrong. I recommend you either do away with your "3 Step" mentallity or find a different line of work. You are employed by the state to enforce our laws not enforce your opinion.

People, this is the #1 reason I advise against asking cops ANYTHING related to law and instead going to your local State Attorney or District Attorney.

noway
01-12-2007, 21:48
{Note the emphasis on the word otherwise - changes the meaning a little bit in the Statute, no? It means that, yes, it IS both. The "securely encased" must be in a manner in which the firearm IS NOT readily accessible.
}

Lincoln your are wrong and if your a LEO you really scare me ...oh on the other hand, you don't scare me and your views represent some LEOs in general.


The statute with it terminology with encased and OR not readily accessible is clear as water. Notice it says firearms;

e.g

I have carry a unloaded shotgun NOT encased in the intorior of my car/truck and be legal

Or would you arrest me do to your silly 1-2-3 step rule :upeyes:

We went over this before and it resulted in a sticky. Read it ;)

ofcsolo
01-29-2007, 00:07
I can't believe I am hearing this come from a LEO! Leads me to think the training standards are going down the tube in this state.:upeyes:

noway
01-29-2007, 05:12
and just like lincoln, their's probably 1000 other mis-informed guys/gals running around with his same views carrying a gun and badge. quite scary if you ask me.


FWIW: Most academies have about 40-80hrs of class work or laws and I feel that alot of LEOs in generals needs to go back and restudy the laws since they are changes and modifications along the way.

Rusty Shackleford
01-29-2007, 05:25
Originally posted by lincoln25
please cite it.

Buy the book that almost every Floridian dealing with fireams already owns. You might find yourself disappointed, but at least you'll be educated.

Here's more I'd love to see explained with a "three step rule":

(3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;

Or how about the FL Supreme Court's 1941 statement on the issue.. this is nothing new.

People don't lack respect for you because you're wrong. They lack respect for you because no matter how much proof there is that you're wrong, you will not step up to the plate like a man and admit it. When the facts have been brought to your attention and you insist on ignoring them while remaining in a law enforcement capacity, your ignorance is inexcusable.

WhiteKoukiS14
02-20-2007, 10:24
I usually put my G17 in my center console which has a tray on top of it, thats usually where i keep my loaded mag. the lid is always closed. Is that legal according to the laws, i myself asked a LEO about it and he told me it was fine as long as it wasnt loaded, then told me "you need 2 steps to discharge your firearm."

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a142/WhiteKoukiS14/IMG_2904.jpg

J T
02-20-2007, 10:42
Originally posted by WhiteKoukiS14
I usually put my G17 in my center console which has a tray on top of it, thats usually where i keep my loaded mag. the lid is always closed. Is that legal according to the laws, i myself asked a LEO about it and he told me it was fine as long as it wasnt loaded, then told me "you need 2 steps to discharge your firearm."

If the center console has a lid, you're legal to carry a loaded pistol in there. You don't need "X" amount of steps; you need to follow the law. Read the posts in this thread (except for lincoln25's ignorance) and the statutes (link provided in this thread).

Gmountain
02-20-2007, 10:45
Originally posted by WhiteKoukiS14
I usually put my G17 in my center console which has a tray on top of it, thats usually where i keep my loaded mag. the lid is always closed. Is that legal according to the laws, i myself asked a LEO about it and he told me it was fine as long as it wasnt loaded, then told me "you need 2 steps to discharge your firearm."


If there is a lid closed on the gun, then it is fine, and is fine loaded. The leo is wrong.


Do you have a CCW?

SW.FLA.glocker
02-20-2007, 11:56
We should rename this thread "Three steps to B.S." and make it a sticky.

WhiteKoukiS14
02-20-2007, 13:10
Originally posted by Gmountain
If there is a lid closed on the gun, then it is fine, and is fine loaded. The leo is wrong.


Do you have a CCW?

no CCW just yet, it amazes me that some of these LEO have no concept of what the law is.

noway
02-23-2007, 20:58
{We should rename this thread "Three steps to B.S." and make it a sticky.}

man that made my day ;)

You are correct tho, most people leo and civilians are clueless on gun laws in most states and it shocks me on what some people tell me.


I have one CCW ( yes just finished the class ) and told me per law that you can't ccw while in your car with the gun loaded and on you :shocked:

Gmountain
02-23-2007, 21:05
[QUO

I have one CCW ( yes just finished the class ) and told me per law that you can't ccw while in your car with the gun loaded and on you :shocked: [/B][/QUOTE]

Friggin unbelievable. I swear to god, some of the people teaching the class make stuff up as they go along.