new p90- question

[jayp]

Just added a Ruger P 90 to my collection- everyone needs a 45 ACP!

I won't get a chance to go shoot it until next week. When examining it, I noticed that, with an empty magazine in place, the slide release will not allow the slide to go forward when the pistol is locked open. The slide will go forward and chamber a round when rounds are in the magazine, however. The slide release will allow the slide forward when there is no magazine in place.

Is this normal operation for this pistol? (I did not notice that this was addressed in the manual.)

Forgive me if this question has already been asked and answered. Thanks!

[Ebb27]

All pistols hold the slide open on an empty mag.

That's how you know the mag is empty when you're shooting it.

The mag follower is what pushes up the slide stop lever to hold it open. When there are rounds in the mag the lever is down, when the mag is empty the mag-follower pushes up the lever and holds the slide open.

[DJ Niner]

jayp,

Many pistols require a LOT of effort to drop the slide using the slide release if there is an empty magazine in place. The combination of stong magazine spring/follower tension, poor mechanical advantage, and the slightly off-center hand position required to hit the release stack the deck against most users. Add in a new pistol (not yet broken-in and smoothed-out by years of use) and the common-sense reluctance of a new owner to "force" any parts on the new toy, and I'd say your problem is quite common.

First, you might want to try a tiny drop of oil/lubricant on the slide release notch to make sure it's not sticking because it's too dry. Then you could try applying a little bit more force to the lever; perhaps using both thumbs at once (one over the other) to move the release.

If this still doesn't do it, I'd say your gun might be one of those that need a good long break-in period before you can use this feature. To be perfectly honest, dropping the slide with an empty mag in place is rarely required, and almost never needed in serious situations, but I can understand you wanting to be able to do it (so would I). In the meantime, just drop the magazine slightly (1/2 inch or so), release the slide, and bump the mag back up into place.

[jayp]

Thanks for your replies, gentlemen.

Ebb27, I'm aware that semiauto pistols are designed to hold the slide open after the last round is fired. I recall that there has been debate whether it is abusive to a pistol to allow the slide to slam closed with no round being chambered- some say it is hard on the gun, others say it is no problem. My Smith 5906 will drop the slide quite easily if you hit the slide release when locked open on an empty mag. The Ruger seems to quite postively hold the slide open with the empty mag even if you engage the slide release. I just wondered if this was a design feature inherent to the Ruger, or if it is sticky, as detailed by DJ Niner.

I plan on giving the pistol a good cleaning and lube before taking it out to shoot- perhaps that will do it?

thanks again for your responses- anyone else with a P 90- does your slide release work on an empty mag?

[Ebb27]

Oh I see what you're saying. Sorry sometimes it gets confusing just what someone means.

You're trying to close the slide with the mag empty. Sorry my mistake.

I tried it with both of my P90s and they slam home real nice, no problem at all, and not the least bit hard to push the lever down.

Is the gun new or a used one? If it's new it may still be a bit tight, but I don't recall mine being all that tight when new. The other one I got used and it's always been easy.

[jayp]

Originally posted by Ebb27


Is the gun new or a used one? If it's new it may still be a bit tight, but I don't recall mine being all that tight when new. The other one I got used and it's always been easy.

It's brand new. The slide quite positively will not close on an empty mag (I tried both of the supplied mags.) I tried using quite a bit of pressure as suggested by DJ Niner- won't close.

Maybe the mags have been redesigned to not allow closing on an empty mag? or maybe it just needs to be broken in? I may contact Ruger on Monday to see what they say.

[Ebb27]

Originally posted by jayp
It's brand new. The slide quite positively will not close on an empty mag (I tried both of the supplied mags.) I tried using quite a bit of pressure as suggested by DJ Niner- won't close.

Maybe the mags have been redesigned to not allow closing on an empty mag? or maybe it just needs to be broken in? I may contact Ruger on Monday to see what they say.

Could be, but I'm not sure why they would do that.

I tend to think it's just a bit on the tight side.

On the other hand I know my 22/45 is sort of like that too, now that I think about it. It's easy to release with the mag full or removed but is much tougher to release on an empty mag. It's about 10 years old and has thousands of rounds through it and the slide release is still really stiff on an empty mag, I just tried it to make sure it still does this. It does.

I'd agree about contacting Ruger. It would be interesting to hear what they say about it.

[jayp]

I asked the lady at the service department if the pistol had a defect because it would not drop the slide on an empty mag. She said the pistol was not defective, and that I could make the slide release on an empty mag if I filed off the point on the tip of the lower magazine follower.

I don't really want to be messing with the magazines, so I think I'll just be OK with it. Perhaps it will get better with break in. And, as DJ Niner said, it's really not necessary to drop the slide on an empty mag in serious situations.

[Ebb27]

Now you got me obsessed with this stuff!!!

I went through all my pistols, 14 of them to be exact, and the only one I really noticed this on was my Ruger 22/45. Oh some of them were a little stiffer, but you might expect a little extra tension from the mag-spring, but nothing that I would say even come close to being hard, other than the 22/45.

The 22/45 is a real bugger to push down. It's not really a lever it's more of a button sticking out of the frame and it definitely takes some effort.

I never really gave it much thought before, about the only time I do it is when I put the gun away after shooting, but now you've got me thinking.

I didn't think you'd get much of an answer fom Ruger. Basically they're telling you the part is a little out of spec and if it bothers you that bad, fix it yourself.

I don't think I'll bother with it, since it tells me there's a good solid fit on the slide-stop, and I don't see any need to round it off and take a chance on the slide not locking back.

[jayp]

I also posted this question on the Ruger forum- the consensus seems to be "you don't need to do this, and probably shouldn't be doing this, so no worries."

I do think that the fact that your P 90's will easily drop the slide on an empty mag, and mine will not, implies that mine might slightly be out of spec.

Do you have the older 7 round mags with the plastic follower, Ebb27?
I have the 8 round mag with the two metal followers.

[Ebb27]

Originally posted by jayp
I also posted this question on the Ruger forum- the consensus seems to be "you don't need to do this, and probably shouldn't be doing this, so no worries."

I do think that the fact that your P 90's will easily drop the slide on an empty mag, and mine will not, implies that mine might slightly be out of spec.

Do you have the older 7 round mags with the plastic follower, Ebb27?
I have the 8 round mag with the two metal followers.

Yes I do have the 7 rounders which is what I used, but I also have a couple of 8 rounders so I just tried one. No difference 8 or 7 rounders they still push down easily. Now there is slightly more resistance when the empty mag is inserted but I can still quite easily pull down the slide lever with just the edge of my thumb on either one with either type of mag.

Oh I suppose you don't actually "need" to do it, but still most pistols normally do this. I would say something is just not quite right.

I wouldn't get too worried or upset about it though, it's nothing that will affect function and it does sort of guarantee your slide will lock open all the time. Plus it'll probably smooth out and ease up a bit over time. There are a lot worse things that you could be having troubles with on a new pistol.

[jayp]

I'm gonna go shoot it for the first time on Friday. I expect it will function 100%. I think that there is probably something slightly out of spec with the gun.

On the Ruger forum, there has been some mention of the follower on the magzine leaving a mark or gouge under the feed ramp due to the mag follower shifting forward when the last round is stripped from the mag. Apparently, when Ruger customer service was contacted about the issue, they said it was a cosmetic problem only and did not affect the reliability of the gun. My pistol has a mark under the feed ramp- wonder if my mag follower is too far forward and if this is preventing the slide release from dropping?

Or maybe the gun is just new and tight.

I'll let you know how it performs on Friday.

[jayp]

A fellow on the Ruger forum thought that the lower metal tab on the mag follower is too far forward and is catching on the shell of the magazine, thus preventing the mag release from pushing the follower down, thus preventing the slide from closing.

I think this is the "problem."

Gonna go shooting today or tomorrow- report to follow...

[DJ Niner]

If this is the case (and I agree that it may be), then you should almost be able to see it happen if you look in the ejection port with the assistance of a bright light. Grab an empty mag, make sure the follower is pushed back against the rear edge of the mag, slide it into the gun with the slide already locked back, and see if you can spot the follower's position. If it's visible, then push on the slide release and see if there is any change.

Keep us up to date on any/all experiments! :)

[jayp]

DJ Niner, it's difficult to see exactly what is going on because the magazine has a upper and lower mag follower, but I shined a bright light in and looked- it appears that the tab on the tip on the lower mag follower is making contact with the frame below the feed ramp- there is a scratch there where it makes contact.

Seems like a lousy design.

I took the pistol out to the range yesterday- no failures in 100+ rounds. I think I like this pistol.

[DJ Niner]

Yes, so far mine is 100% reliable, too (bought it used, put about 600-700 rounds through it so far, half FMJ, half hollowpoints). It has a really bad trigger pull (weight AND "feel") but it shoots UNBELIEVABLY WELL (when I do my part).

[jayp]

Update:

I just received a couple of ProMags- 1 seven rounder and 1 eight rounder. Both of these mags will allow the slide to drop when the mag is empty.

Seems as though the mag follower is the culprit.

Hope the ProMags are reliable- I'll test at the range soon.

[Ebb27]

I've got some of the Pro-Mag 10 rounders. They work great with FMJ but I have had problems using HPs in them.

[jayp]

I shot 100 rounds of FMJ ammo at the range today with the ProMags. The 8 rounder did not want to feed the inital round in the 1st two magazines, but it worked fine from the 3rd magazine on. The 7 rounder worked fine. I didn't have any hollowpoints to run through it.

I'll probably reserve the ProMags for the range till I test them with hollowpoints. I'll use the factory mags for carry. I like the +P Golden Sabers- they seemed plenty powerful- Automag like.:)

[Walter45Auto]

Originally posted by Ebb27
All pistols hold the slide open on an empty mag.

That's how you know the mag is empty when you're shooting it.

The mag follower is what pushes up the slide stop lever to hold it open. When there are rounds in the mag the lever is down, when the mag is empty the mag-follower pushes up the lever and holds the slide open.

No they don't. Not ALL of them.


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