Transporting guns in IL [Archive] - Glock Talk

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OldMan1
01-23-2007, 01:20
Does anyone have a definitive answer as to what constitutes legal transporting of firearms in IL? The State Police website gives info, but it is from 1961 and I know that parts of it have been dramatically changed. I have called the state police and the local police and an ex-chief of police and their aanswers are all slightly different.
According to the state law of 1961, only 1 criteria needs met, therefore I could carry concealed and loaded in an enclosed case on my passenger seat (even an briefcase) or in a fanny pack while loaded.
Local police seem to think that it needs to be unaccessible, brokeen down (most will accept no magazine as broken down and that the ammo needs to be separate and not readily accessible to the gun (example, gun in case on back seat...loaded mag in glove box...a no-no to some police officers)
Also, I find the word "transporting" confusing. Does that mean anywhere I go, or only if I'm on my way to the range.
Guess, I'm on my way to the library to check out ILCS, but would appreciate your opinions and any experiences which you have had.
TIA, OldMan1

isp2605
01-23-2007, 07:26
First, the law is not from 1961. That's the year the criminal statutes were renamed "Criminal Code" hence the 1961. All criminal statutes in IL are "Criminal Code of 1961" even those passed in 2006. The law concerning your question was last revised in 2006. Look at the bottom of the statute and you'll see the year.
If you want to read the law you can go to this website and it is listed: www.isp.state.il.us/foid/ You'll see the link to "How to transport your gun legally" and it gives you the statute.
What will save you a bunch of time tho is click the "Frequently Asked Questions" link which is the second item down. About 1/2 way down the page is the FAQ on transporting. Your question is answered.
You don't indicate if you are a resident or non-resident of IL. If you are a non-resident then the FOID part does not apply to you. As a non-resident you cannot get, nor do you need, a FOID card.
Bottom line is for transporting a firearm in IL it needs to be unloaded and in a case. And before you ask, while the criminal code says "or in a case" the wildlife code says the gun must be in a case.

OldMan1
01-23-2007, 14:10
Thanks for the info. and for telling me about the date issue. I hadn't understood it. I had checked both of these and still have some questions.
1. the beginning of the article (which states that ILCS 720 2.4 allow for the first 2 offensed to be class C misdemeanors. Then the next section (which covers transporting) starts at 21-2.5). Isn't illegal carry an automatic felony?
2 Ammo may be in the case with the firarm as long as it is in an enclosed case. In your opinion, does this include a loaded magazine which is not in the gun?
3. The main reason I ask is that so many policeofficers do not know the law as it is stated and seem to think that at least TWO and some believe that ALL THREE options must be followed. The law says that it is "one or" must be followed.
I am an Illinois resident and a 58 year old minister, would be very unlikely ever to be checked unless something was showing. What I would like to do is carry my pistol and a full mag in a snapped briefcase.
Problem is that I have been told repeatedly by police that this illegal and then by some others that it depends upon the oficer and the judge.
In other words, I know what the law states and believe that I have the correct interpertation of it and will carry a copy of the law with me, but am still unsure since none of the locals seem to agree.
Thanks. OldMan1

OldMan1
01-23-2007, 14:43
I just re-called the IL State police, and read them the statue and the FAQ which states that you can carry a gun and ammo together in a case. Ispecifically asked her about carrying a gun with a loaded magazine inside a briefcase and she replied that it was perfectly.
When I told her that some local officers viewed, she said that might give me a hard time even if I showed them the law, but a judge would have to make a ruling according to the law.
What a state we live in. Flat, windy and gun paranoia.
Thanks again and sorry I bothered with the questions and bandwidth. It was really the fourth FAQ after transporting that helped me...I hadn't read that before.

isp2605
01-23-2007, 14:55
1. the beginning of the article (which states that ILCS 720 2.4 allow for the first 2 offensed to be class C misdemeanors. Then the next section (which covers transporting) starts at 21-2.5).
Ignore those. Go to Article starting with 24-1. Those sections you are referring to have nothing to do with weapons. Articles beginning with 21 refer to damage and tresspass to property. Unlawful use of weapons are under Article 24.

Isn't illegal carry an automatic felony?
Nope, not an automatic felony. Go to section (b) where it explains which violations are misdemeanors and which are felonies.

2 Ammo may be in the case with the firarm as long as it is in an enclosed case. In your opinion, does this include a loaded magazine which is not in the gun?
It's not my opinion but case law - ammo can be loaded in the mags or anything else but no ammo can be in the gun.

3. The main reason I ask is that so many policeofficers do not know the law as it is stated and seem to think that at least TWO and some believe that ALL THREE options must be followed. The law says that it is "one or" must be followed.
This is a good example where reading the law by a layman can get them in trouble. According to the criminal code a firearm must be "one or". However, what laymen fail to do is a complete research and they fail to check under the Wildlife Code which states all firearms must be in a case while transporting. Also, it has to be unloaded, doesn't matter if it is in a case or broken down. That is why on the referenced ISP website it states the firearm must be unloaded and in a case. If you only read 24-1 then you would think it's only "one or", but in reality it's not. The firearm is required to be unloaded AND in a case to fully comply with the law.
As far as LEOs not knowing the law, they've had the training at the Academy in this particular section of the law. This is covered. Additionally, any changes to this or any law should be covered in their continuing update training. What they remember of their training is another matter unrelated to what they were trained.

What I would like to do is carry my pistol and a full mag in a snapped briefcase.
The referenced ISP FAQ quotes the legal definition of case. Is your briefcase "a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container." with a case defined as "a container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun or bow and arrow device which completely encloses such gun or bow and arrow device by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened with no portion of the gun or bow and arrow device exposed."? If your briefcase meets that definition then it is a case. If it's just a briefcase not made for carrying a gun then it doesn't meet the definition of a case and a person could be subject to arrest.

Problem is that I have been told repeatedly by police that this illegal and then by some others that it depends upon the oficer and the judge.
Sounds like you were given correct info. A plain, unaltered briefcase would not meet the legal definition of "a container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun". When you were told by the others that it will depend on the officer and judge they are trying to tell you that whether the officer or states attorney would file charges is another matter entirely; however, a plain briefcase would not meet the specific criteria of a gun case.
Again, whether a LEO remembers the law or not is something outside the control of the training academy but all IL LEOs have received the training in that section of the law.

In other words, I know what the law states and believe that I have the correct interpertation of it and will carry a copy of the law with me, but am still unsure since none of the locals seem to agree.
Thanks. OldMan1
I'm still not sure what it is when you say the locals don't agree. So far what you've provided sounds like you've been given the correct info. To transport a firearm in IL, one of several ways of doing it, it has to be unloaded and in a case and the case has to meet the definition as definited by statute. Has any agency, local or otherwise, given you different information?

hunt55
01-23-2007, 17:22
Originally posted by isp2605

------ snip -----------
quote:
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Problem is that I have been told repeatedly by police that this illegal and then by some others that it depends upon the oficer and the judge.
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Sounds like you were given correct info. A plain, unaltered briefcase would not meet the legal definition of "a container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun". When you were told by the others that it will depend on the officer and judge they are trying to tell you that whether the officer or states attorney would file charges is another matter entirely; however, a plain briefcase would not meet the specific criteria of a gun case.
Again, whether a LEO remembers the law or not is something outside the control of the training academy but all IL LEOs have received the training in that section of the law.

------ snip ------

isp2605,

Does it matter "where" in the car the case is located? Could it be sitting in the passinger seat or perhaps on the back seat?

Thanks

isp2605
01-23-2007, 17:27
Originally posted by hunt55
isp2605,
Does it matter "where" in the car the case is located? Could it be sitting in the passinger seat or perhaps on the back seat?
Thanks
No IL requirement. Some vehicles don't have a back seat or trunk. However, FOPA says inaccessible.

hunt55
01-23-2007, 18:50
Originally posted by isp2605
No IL requirement. Some vehicles don't have a back seat or trunk. However, FOPA says inaccessible.

We normally travel in a Jeep Cherokee with the back seat folded down. This makes a bed for our 110 lb. spoiled rotten Black Lab (all of my dogs are spoiled). So given those circumstances I'm good to go traveling across your state on I70 with my unloaded Glock M23 and a loaded magazine in the same "zippered" gun case, right?

Also, in a car without a trunk, how do the LEO's judge accessibility?

Thanks very much ........

isp2605
01-23-2007, 18:57
Originally posted by hunt55
We normally travel in a Jeep Cherokee with the back seat folded down. This makes a bed for our 110 lb. spoiled rotten Black Lab (all of my dogs are spoiled). So given those circumstances I'm good to go traveling across your state on I70 with my unloaded Glock M23 and a loaded magazine in the same "zippered" gun case, right?

Also, in a car without a trunk, how do the LEO's judge accessibility?

Thanks very much ........
You'll be good to go transporting like that. Besides, who would try messing with anyone hauling a spoiled 110 lb Black Lab and risk getting slobbered on. :supergrin:
As far as accessibility, the criteria usually is if anyone in the vehicle can readily grab it. If it's stuck between the driver's and passenger's seat that would be readily accessible. If it's past arms reach in the back, locked in a glove box, under clothes and stuff in the back seat then it wouldn't be readily accessible. It can get a bit subjective in the "gray" area.

OldMan1
01-24-2007, 02:03
"I'm still not sure what it is when you say the locals don't agree. So far what you've provided sounds like you've been given the correct info. To transport a firearm in IL, one of several ways of doing it, it has to be unloaded and in a case and the case has to meet the definition as definited by statute. Has any agency, local or otherwise, given you different information? [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks for being patient with me and for your specific answers.
Local city police and a retired chief of police from a neighboring town (with whom we are good friends) have all said that ammo has to be separate. A city police officer (Sgt. w/ 20 yrs. exp.) and a local Lt. both have told me that they have to be separate AND the gun inaccesible.
I am especially thankful for your clearing up the definition of "case", because when I called the ISP today at the firearms division and specifically asked if it would be legal to carry a gun, not loaded, but with loaded magazines beside it in a briefcase with two snaps on it, I was told "yes".
I'm really not trying to argue the point. Your advice makes the most sense and seems to me to apply the full letter of the law and is what I plan to follow. This response is merely to respond to your question since you were so kind as to answer so many of miine. THX

isp2605
01-24-2007, 08:42
Originally posted by OldMan1
I am especially thankful for your clearing up the definition of "case", because when I called the ISP today at the firearms division and specifically asked if it would be legal to carry a gun, not loaded, but with loaded magazines beside it in a briefcase with two snaps on it, I was told "yes".
To meet the FOPA requirements the gun has to be inaccessible. That is probably why you were given that info. That would keep you legal in any of your travels, not just thru IL.
You do realize tho that when you called the ISP "Firearms Division" that you talked to a clerk who answers the phone and that person could have been a contract, non-ISP employee who has no training other than answering the phone? There are only a couple of sworn officers working at FOID and none of them are female. The clerk's job is issuing FOID cards, not firearms law.
You will probably not have problems carrying in a briefcase as long as there are no other issues involved. However, by the letter of the law the standard, unaltered briefcase does not meet the definition of "case" and you could find yourself with a problem if an officer was to enforce the letter of the law. I do know that DNR CPOs, and some agencies, take a very firm line on enforcing the definition of "case". Just something you should be aware of in your travels. Personally, if it were me, I'd buy a zippered rug type case for the gun and place that in the briefcase. Then you'd be covered.

hunt55
01-24-2007, 17:34
Originally posted by isp2605
You'll be good to go transporting like that. Besides, who would try messing with anyone hauling a spoiled 110 lb Black Lab and risk getting slobbered on. :supergrin:


My Lab is 13 years old and has traveled a zillion miles with us. I hope she will last one more year. The first trip I have to make across country without her will be a very sad affair.:sad: As a matter of fact I'm a fairly old guy. I just may stop traveling.

Thanks for you help....

speedracer815
01-31-2007, 16:05
ISP,
Could you point us to the applicable wildlife law that supercedes 720 ILCS 5? I find it very confusing that state wildlife laws would come into effect for a non-hunter outside of hunting areas.

Also as I read "enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container" it occurs to me that a briefcase would fall into the "other container" category. No?

isp2605
01-31-2007, 16:17
Originally posted by speedracer815
ISP,
Could you point us to the applicable wildlife law that supercedes 720 ILCS 5? I find it very confusing that state wildlife laws would come into effect for a non-hunter outside of hunting areas.
It doesn't supercede it, it's in addition to.
Doesn't matter if you're a non-hunter outside a hunting area, wildlife code violations are still applicable everywhere in the state just like all the other statutes. That's where laymen get jammed up because they don't understand the ins and outs of the law and only look at one part thinking that's all that will apply. Doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by speedracer815

Also as I read "enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container" it occurs to me that a briefcase would fall into the "other container" category. No?
Call your state's attorney's office and get their read. You'll find that it is widely interpreted depending on the county. However, do you really want to take the chance traveling thru any of the 102 counties where one place may consider it OK but another take the view that a briefcase is not a case? Your decision. Just depends on how much of a chance you care to take. The info I gave you would cover you in all 102 counties as it is the strict interpretation. I can't give you any info how your specific county might view it but you won't get into trouble following the strict interpretation.
Your decision to make. Life is full of choices and choices have consequences. If you want to use the briefcase and happen to get arrested in a county where the state's attorney doesn't consider the briefcase a gun case then that's a consequence you'll have to endure.

speedracer815
01-31-2007, 16:59
Actually when I go the range my firearms are unloaded and cased, so it's a non issue for me until Illinois (and Wisonsin) join the other 48 states.

I'm just trying to clear up what seems to be written as a black and white issue but is treated as various shades of grey.

Thanks for sharing the ISP view with us.

isp2605
01-31-2007, 23:19
Originally posted by speedracer815
I'm just trying to clear up what seems to be written as a black and white issue but is treated as various shades of grey.
It's all black and white, as written in 720, 520, and plenty of case law in rulings by the courts.