Barsto won't feed rounds?

[haze10]

Finally got to the range with my new Barsto barrel in my 23. I was shooting reloads 165gr Rainer JHP with 6.3gr Unique. Not a stiff load, but not weak either, pleasant to shoot would be the best description. All rounds were final sized with the LEE factory crimp resizing die. LOA was 1.130". All the rounds would drop into the barrel chamber with gravity with the barrel out, and would all cycle and eject manually when operating the slide. AT the range I was experiencing about 1 in 20 rounds failing to chamber. Slide would strip the round out of the mag, and jam the round into the chamber at 30 degree angle and stop the slide. IF I removed the same round and put it back in the magazine, it would chamber when I racked the slide.

I can't see polishing the feed ramp as it is already pretty polished. Could be just the bullet profile. Any ideas and what bullets are others using without problems and LOA's please.

Accuracy was much improved over the Glock barrel as I was shooting 1.5" groups at 25ft, better than I have done with the original barrel.

Does anyone have a contact at Barsto who is known to be helpful.

[Custom Glock Racing]

There are a lot of things can can contribute to that.
Have you changed spring in the gun? If the pickup rail is grabbing the round at the extractor groove (which is what it sounds like) you are not getting full slide travel.

It can also be bullet shape,OAL, mag springs etc. Did you try any other ammo or bullet types?

IF you want to call Barsto, ask for Irv.

[Steve Koski]

I can't imagine 6.3 Unique/165 not putting the slide to full travel.

...with the stock spring and probably the heaviest spring you can find.

[Custom Glock Racing]

I thinking more a spring weight issues than powder charge.

[truckmsl]

Just a thought, but any chance you were using a higher than normal capacity mag that extended beyond the grip? I've heard of feeding problems when the extended mag is accidentally tweaked to one side when shooting.

[haze10]

Recoil spring is about 6 months and 1000 rounds old. Magazine is 10 round standard, no extension, #6 follower. I have a new #7 13rounder but didn''t have time to try it. I can resit the bullets down another 0.010" and see if that helps. I would think the slide is going back sufficient as the load is comfortable but not light and ejection is about four feet. I was looking for someone who has the barrel and the type bullet and LOA they are using. I'll also pickup another recoil spring from glock and try that.

[coverdog]

You say the spring is 6 months old. But is it the stock weight recoil spring? If not you may want to try that.

[haze10]

Yes, stock recoil spring weight as it is a Glock replacement part. I tried seating the bullets a little lower. I have to go to the range soon and see if that helps.

[Custom Glock Racing]

Try some other loads, bullets, shapes at he same time. IT may provide more info. Also take a pic of the jam if it happens again.

[haze10]

Took the same rounds and reseated the bullets to 1.110". That was the absolute minimum as any deeper and the taper of the bullet would have breeched the rim. Went to the range a fired 100 rounds without a failure to chamber in normal fire. But I did have two failure to chamber after a reload and releasing with the slide stop lever. Next time I will try slingshot method only and see if that helps.

I am quite pleased with my shooting performance with this barrel. With concentration I can put 5 into a 1" circle at 25ft. Something I could never do with my glock barrel. I do tend to see a fair amount of stringing, often with four bullet holes overlapping. And the direction can be both vertical or horizontal, so I think it is just me.

I also feel Barsto could make some improvements in the their customer service. I think my barrel required way too much metal removal in the lug and was probably a missed step before it left them. The barrel comes with no instructions at all or dimensions so you can check before fitting. And so far, my email to them hasn't been answered in a week. I think my next barrel will be by one of the other manufacturers as the lack of a good customer support system has me a bit concerned, and this barrel was twice the cost of a Lonewolf. Althought I would have appreciated some factory input from the beginning in terms of case LOA, and fitting instruction, all seems to be working now.

[ColoradoGlocker]

.

[Custom Glock Racing]

Its best to contact Barsto by phone. For those unfamiliar with fitting they also offer an instructional DVD. Barsto or myself could have answered any of your pre fit questions with a phone call.

[haze10]

CGR, with respect, your cocept of good customer service is a bit lopsided. As the customer it is not my responsibility to include instructional literature with the product. If Barsto was concerned with my opinion of their product but preferred to discuss it by phone, they could have very easily replied with a one liner like 'call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx". They however chose to ignore me. To what degree am I as the customer obligated to compell them to reply? This forum is for the Glock 'users' and my experience is representative of what other users could also experience. You get an instruction booklet with a $10 model airplane and before I bought my Hart rifle barrel we exchanged several timely emails.

[Custom Glock Racing]

Just trying to help you solve your problems, bad service indeed.

[Don At PC]

http://www.barsto.com/FAQs.cfm?C1=1757

This is right from the Barsto web sight under FAQ. I followed this when I ordered my Barsto barrel for my G17L and everything went perfect. Shoots like a dream. They really have little responsibility in your fitting a barrel if you choose not to use their services. They have a great product and I have had zero problems recieving any info I requested from them or following their suggestions for fitting the barrel myself. No slam intended but I think you may be holding them responsible for you getting youself in over your head.;)

[Steve Koski]

Email is a notoriously poor way to contact manufacturers. Only a few of them respond in a timely manner, many don't respond at all.

Don't use email if you can help it. Phone Call!

[Deanimator]

Originally posted by Custom Glock Racing
There are a lot of things can can contribute to that.
Have you changed spring in the gun? If the pickup rail is grabbing the round at the extractor groove (which is what it sounds like) you are not getting full slide travel.

It can also be bullet shape,OAL, mag springs etc. Did you try any other ammo or bullet types?

IF you want to call Barsto, ask for Irv.
+1 on OAL. He should try to load them to the same OAL as known well functioning factory ammunition.

[haze10]

In my case I wound up removing 0.018" from the rear lug to get it to clear the frame lock bar. Notice that in their instructions they don't mention this at all. My feeling is that they let this barrel leave without final QC. Their website has a 'Contact Us' section that includes email. If they don't want emails they shouldn't list an address, if they do, they have an obligation to respond. As far as the install I did it with my friend who is a professional machinist in his shop and he has worked on guns before. It wasn't over our head. In fact I would modestly say we were far better equipped than most hobbyists. My email was two paragraphs with a lot of the dimensional data as found with questions as to whether or not that was in their tolerance or if this would have failed QC. If one barrel slips through, modern statistical manufacturing control philosphy will guarantee you that others will also. If original dimension were provided I would have done their QC for them and verified first. I am sure that a majority of these barrels go to reloaders like myself and if the barrel needs short LOA cases, then knowing some specs would have been helpful.

I work hard for my money and I expect that when I pay up for a Cadillac product there should be some service behind it. If it was a StormLake, I would simply say you get what you pay for. I buy a lot of technical products in my profession as an engineer, and all I can say is that I am seeing a widespread deterioration of customer service. Feedback seems to be met with defense.

Guess my expectations are just too high or I am too old and come from a different generation.

Thanks for all the advice, but I am ending this thread as its direction is now off path.

[Don At PC]

haze10;

In my case I don't know if it's a generation gap or not. I am 65, have a College Degree and have spent over 30 years associated with Jet Fighter Aircraft Maintenance. Can't tell much by your info in this area. ;)

[skeeeter]

I need to order a barrel for my Sig and this thread makes me think I will order from Jarvis instead of Bar-Sto. Their website says to allow 2 to 3 weeks for an e-mail reply. Robar and Wilson have answered several of my e-mails the next day in every case. Waiting 2 to 3 weeks shows a lack of concern for their customers IMO. For what they get for their barrels they should hire one person just for e-mailing.

[coverdog]

Fitting a semi drop in barrel
1) First check the fit of the barrel in the slide. If it goes in with no resistance then go to step 2. If barrel sticks in the slide then LOOK to see where it is sticking. The locking lug length is frequently the cause. You should remove VERY small amounts of material from the HOOD area only. When the barrel fits with a little bit of contact or just a slight bit of clearance, we feel .0015 is about the max, go to step 2.

2) Then check to see if the underlug is canted or straight up and down (centered between the rails). If it is canted, you will need to remove material from either the left or right side of the hood. If the lug is to the left then remove material from the right side (lug down, muzzle away from you).

3) When this is done, assemble the top end and try on the frame. If the slide assembles and locks up smoothly or just snaps into lock up with little to no pressure then you should be ready to go. If you cannot get the slide assembly locked up on the frame then we recomend you either send it to us or take it to an experianced gunsmith. We charge return shipping of $15.00 for slide assemblies and $35 to $60 for complete firearm.

REMEMBER WE WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGE TO THE BARREL BY SOMEONE ELSE BECAUSE OF IMPROPER FITTING OR MACHINING! YOUR BARREL IS EXPENSIVE,BE SURE YOUR GUNSMITH IS FULLY QUALIFIED OR SEND IT TO US.

The above is from their site and says it all. Semi drop- in means just that, YOU MAY have to fit it somewhat. Unless of course you want a one size fits all sloppy fit. It is not a Manufacturers responsibility to tell anyone how to be a gunsmith.

I have a few of their barrels and feel they are the best there is. I wouldn't blame a company for my lack of knowledge.The above is from their site and says it all. Semi drop- in means just that, YOU MAY have to fit it somewhat. Unless of course you want a one size fits all sloppy fit. It is not a Manufacturers responsibility to tell anyone how to be a gunsmith. Pick up the phone and I am sure they would be more than happy to help you out. I have a few of their barrels and feel they are the best there is. I wouldn't blame a company for my lack of knowledge If you want a cheap drop-in they are available from others cheap if thats's what you want.

I am not affiliated with them at all, this is my opinion only.

[haze10]

Coverdog, I debated to even respond but found your statement a bit challenging.

First, there are two seperate posts, this one and my original here:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=641385

Fitting the barrel was NOT an issue and was fully expected to the level stated. I did this on a Sunday with my friend who owns a fully equipped machine shop. I am talking lathes, CNC, bridgeports, mills, you name it, he has it. He often does military work as well as custom machine design. He's the president of our gun club and does gunsmith work but only for a few, as he does it as a favor and not for business. He even barrelled a rifle for a member who won in a National match. I believe he is competent.

My initial and only original complaint was after fitting the hood area, which was a pleasure, the slide would not fit on the frame. The rear lug of the Barsto hit the lock bar in the frame. We wound up taking 0.018" off the lug. We did a go/no go test with shim stock to determine that we had just about 0.001" clearance from the bottom of the rear lug to the top of frame lock bar.

If you have installed barrels yourself, you know you dont take 18 thou off with a stone. Least not easily.

My email to Barsto was to inquire if this was normal. My first thought was that this barrel slipped through their QC as 18 thou seemed a bit much even for a semi-fit. My next question was what they recommended for clearance and what the HOA from breech top to bottom lug was supposed to be to verify if mine was correct as received. I am still waiting for those dimensions.

Now could I have spent another $100 to send them the whole gun to machine the lug, yeh, I guess. But would you? I thought about stopping there and sending them back the barrel. But what would they do that my machinist friend could not. I mean the mill was right there. Plus I had already stoned and fitted the hood.

With all of this aggrevation and what I felt was not the best of QC (which maybe I am wrong and they all are like this) and customer support - I would tell you that I am very impressed with the results at the range. This barrel is a BIG improvement over the Glock barrel and the difference is dramatic.

But remember, this is a forum for users, not vendors. Every message I read before buying only talked about the hood fitting and no where did anyone mention fitting the lug to this degree. If this happened to me it could happen to others. Not everyone is going to have access to the measurement tools and machine equipment I had. At least they can do some premeasurements, or if they discover a 18thou interference they will know to stop and send the barrel back. Of course they will discover this after fitting the hood if they don't premeasure, so is it still returnable if they fitted the hood area? I can only hope so if the lug depth was a machining error. But again I don't know that it was as they won't tell me, and I'm not compelling them to answer. Since this is only a range gun and not for carry, the 1 thou clearance is working fine and when it doesn't I will take off more in 1 thou increments until it does.

This original post was regarding recommendations to improve round chambering and case LOA. To that I got one good reply which was to round the 10 to 2 o'clock edge. For that positive advice I am appreciative. But I went through a lot of crapola to get it.

[coverdog]

I usually use mics or a comparater and copy the original barrel dimensions. Add to the demensions if I want the new one tighter and set them up on a surface grinder. If you decide you do not want to fit one next time look for a "drop-in" barrel, but more then likely it will not be tight.

I figure if someone is willing to spend the money on a great barrel you may as well get one that can be fit properly like a gunsmith or semi-drop in. It sounds like it worked out for you in the end. I have yet to find more accurate barrels. I have bar-sto's in a two 1911's that shoot an inch or less from a ransom rest at 25 yards. Good shooting to you.;)

[Don At PC]

That's strange. I fitted my Barsto G17L Semi-dropin barrel in about 30 minutes in my little reloading room with the aide of only a file and a black felt tip marker and it shoots like a champ. Groups are easly 1 1/2 at 25 yards from a rest. Sounds like you tried to make something hard out of a simple task. You don't need all that fancy equipment to fit a semi-dropin, that may have been half your problem.;)

[haze10]

Don, how much did you have to remove from the rear lug? Was it close to 18 thou?

[Don At PC]

Originally posted by haze10
Don, how much did you have to remove from the rear lug? Was it close to 18 thou?


I have no idea. Since I completed the job with a good tight functional fit in less than an hour with a file and black felt tip I think it was pretty easy.

[dport]

Any chance they accidentally sent you something other than a semi-drop in?

[Don At PC]

Sounds very much like he may have recieved one for Gun Smith Fitting instead of semi-dropin. Internally is no different just takes more fitting in lug and hood area for the maximum fit that still functions reliably.