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VICARA
01-30-2007, 03:24
Fellow Bogs, maiba naman tayo ng topic.
I don't know about you guys but I'm also into home audio/video system; I just love watching good action/adventure movies in the comfort of my living room. Palibhasa, gurang na, hindi na mahilig manood sa labas specially if its like this winter in the low 30's. No, I'm not yet a part of extreme audiophiles spending fortunes on toys in their entertainment rooms. The brain of my system is an old ONKYO HT-R410 receiver(last time I checked, its already obsolete) I bought almost 2 years ago. Even with those bulky/heavy speakers, I was not a happy camper. Something is missing on my sound although it offers 100 watt per channel and in a supposedly 5.1 mode. I have an antiquated 52" Toshiba HiDef and a Samsung DVD-HD841 which are older than my receiver. Sale sa Costco last week so I picked up this Sony DVD that upscales movies from 720 to a 1080p resolution (still waiting for a winner of the HD-DVD/Blu-ray war). BTW, if basing on tech specs, I like to think I'm on the blu-ray camp but then again, Sony lost Betamax years ago, despite its superior specs.

Anyway, balik sa kuwento. After much hesitation, I upgraded to Bose speakers, 5 small cubes and a subwoofer, thinking it will give me more high frequencies. Nope, the sound remains lifeless to me. Hinahanap ko yung kalansing ng nahuhulog na empty shells during a shooting scene. I just bought the complete set of Band of Brothers, and an old movie by Al Pacino/Robert Deniro called Heat and both has truck loads of spents shells flying. Meron sound effect pero kulang. O baka naman sira na tainga ko.

Any thoughts on a good receiver? Is Yamaha any good? Sad to say, I cannot afford the highend Marantz, Harman Kardon, Denon and the like. Lets hear your experience setting up your home theater system. For US Bogs, do you shop at Fry's for your entertainment toys i.e. speakers, receivers, HDTVs, navigations, etc.?

VA

Wp.22
01-30-2007, 03:40
Mine is out the box JVC HT set up hiram lang from my uncle 110v pa nga galing houston. As far as hearing those spent shells sa band of brothers, heat, underworld part 1 ok naman minsan worry ko nga sa sobrang lakas pag barilan eh mag complain sa pulis yung mga neighbor ko.

toxic
01-30-2007, 06:54
Impressive set up Boss Vic.

Check out Pioneer's home theater system , mine is the HTZ 360 but mas malakas ang bigay ng volume ng HTS model ,pwede mo rin sya dagdagan ng speakers like the EX,HF and DS models(also fom pioneer)
Then buy a plasma TV or LCD TV (pioneer and Sony are good choices)para ka nag nanood ng sine nun.
to really enjoy the sound , you need to have a sound proof AV room (di ko alam tawag insulated yata yun)like the recording comapany rooms have).

Allegra
01-30-2007, 07:25
Is it only me who enjoys pag meron audience participation pag nanuod ng movie?
You know when the audience cheers when the cavalry comes , or screams pag muntik na makian ng dinosaur yung mga bata

I end up sleeping halfway sa movie sa home theater :) but that's just me

bagito
01-30-2007, 07:57
sony 46"LCD + bose lifestyle48 perfect combination:thumbsup:

mtho
01-30-2007, 08:10
Sir Vic,
Yamaha makes great receivers, dami features lalo na yung equalizer nya. I have a friend who had an Onkyo and changed to yamaha when it became available a few years back. I think he even spent double on the onkyo than the yamaha.

My dad has a denon on his bigger home theater. I have a yamaha on my sala. the denon is older and has separate amps. but with my smaller speakers and smaller place I couldn't tell the difference.

Mang Danny
01-30-2007, 09:02
My gear was bought at Good Guys in 2003 (sarado na)
Yamaha RXV-440 receiver
Energy Connoisseur Series Speakers C1 left & right, CC3 for center.
Yamaha Sub woofer 8" (Best Buy)
Bose 141 for surround (Fry's)
Monster Cable speaker wire (gauge 12)
Sony DVP-S530D DVD player bought in 1998.
Optical cable (fiber optic) for sound.

Go to menu on your dvd player and turn on DTS. Use the optical cable from dvd to receiver. Do not use RCA patch cords for audio. The receiver should automatically detect what kind of sound is being sent to it via the optical cable (DTS, dolby digital, etc.).

A good test disc is Eagles Farewell 1 Tour. It defaults to your DTS setting. Yung ibang disc, kailangan mo pang magpunta sa audio menu to choose DTS or Dolby Digital Or PCM.

Enjoy your system!

magister
01-30-2007, 09:27
prices of entry level yamaha, marantz, and denon av receivers should not be that far apart. the kind of amp that you buy will really depend on what your needs are. since you're in the US, i'd suggest you audition the av receivers with the speakers you intend to use them with so you know which one gives the sound you are looking for.

am sorry but am not really a fan of bose. (though i have a pair of 301s series IV) there are a lot of better alternatives. marketing hype lang kasi for me yung bose e. if i were you i'd ditch the bose speakers and start all over.

get a good amp, matching speakers (marami din entry level na maganda) and a sub. use good interconnects (wag yang monster cable. para din bose yan. overrated.)and if you still have cash left over, a good dvd player and lcd/plasma or projector system would round it all off. :)

foxyyy
01-30-2007, 12:37
you can't go wrong with yamahas..they have mid-end and hi-end models to choose from that suits your budget. sound is never compromised whichever you choose.

VICARA
01-30-2007, 13:14
mang danny, i will check my DTS setting tonight, that might be the problem. I think I dont have optical input although I have S-video and 4 composites.

my movie collections are mainly actions and live concerts mostly from Hollywood video and Fry's. $5-$9 lang pag sales. Buti pa diyan sa Pinas, you have all the cheaper "goodies" available everywhere and can easily built up a DVD library. I picked up a couple when I was there but too bad I cannot carry them back to the US.

my TV is one of those rear projection model but wide screen and capable of HiDef signals from Comcast. And linaw nga yung mga football/basketball games, kita mo buhok sa ilong pag na close up. I love watching Discovery, SciFi & History channels. If and when a tax refund is due this year, I might decide if I go for another 1911 or a Samsung LCD(or plasma) plus a Blu-ray player.

magister, baka tama ka sa overhype na bose and monster cables but ang ganda ng tunog sa showroom. I remember I paid $100+ sa HDMI cable ko nun. Yes, mayron na rin akong DLP projector yung maliit na Olympus VP-1 and, its cool pag ginamit with the humungous viewing screen, parang sa sinehan na, but hazzle lang mag setup ng screen. Binili ko lang last May, ngayon, obsolete na rin. Kakainis nga, puro obsolete na toys ko.

BTW, what are your movie collections? Action/Suspense/adventure lang huwag drama at horror flicks.

gundog
01-30-2007, 15:31
i started out with bose speakers and onkyo but was never happy. then i replaced my receiver with a yamaha and got the B&W speakers with an Energy sub wooofer. my test comes from the first 5 minutes of the movie Saving Private Ryan. Have been very happy since :supergrin:

Mang Danny
01-30-2007, 17:22
Vicara, I went to samsung & onkyo's website and yes you have optical ports on both kaya optical cable na lang ang kulang. Hindi ko lang maisip kung paano ang connection ng sub-woofer from onkyo to bose kasi sa DTS at dolby digital totally hiwalay ang sub frequencies (.1)at kailangan mo ng powered sub. Ang alam ko sa bose lahat ng galing sa amp (5 ch) nagpunta sa sub and then yung internal network ang nag-pahiwalay sa mga individual speakers.

To fully enjoy HD, video should be YPbPr component input, kung wala ok na rin ang s-video.

Wala naman akong maraming collection, kadalasan yung bargain sale sa fry's best buy at circuit city. Hilig ko rin ang mga concert kasi maski paulit-ulit hindi nakakasawa.

gundog, +1 sa B&W speakers, kaso yung modelong gusto ko kasing mahal ng dalawang les baer.

mtho
01-30-2007, 19:34
Mang Danny,
si gundog naka les baer din :animlol:

bass one
01-30-2007, 20:02
Check out What Hi-Fi? magazines. They give credible reviews and take into consideration product prices. Personally, I have my sights on MK speakers. I Even e-mailed their sound engineers to ask for professional advise as to what model will be best for my room size and what cables to use. They were pretty accommodating. They even discouraged me from going for 6.1 or 7.1, which is what I was thinking then, and instead go for a good 5.1 set-up. Pioneer or Yamaha for receivers (as their price is not too steep).

saki1611
01-30-2007, 22:38
mine is a harman-kardon 335, in 7.1, my speakers, a set (5.1) of definitive technology pro cinema 80, and added a pair of acoustic energy evo1 as front speakers, which is good in stereo mode audio. harman is good both for movies and music, but i would recommend yamaha if it's only dedicated for movies. yamaha is not that really good in music audio. in speakers i would recommend b&w, they're the best! it's quite expensive and the size doesn't match my place. i would also suggest that you invest much on speakers than amplifiers, amplis depreciate fast and change models almost twice a year. to have much life on the sounds get a good subwoofwer, the best is velodyne.

revo
01-30-2007, 23:39
Damn..seryoso talaga kayo mga kapatid...I don't even watch TV anymore.

batangueno
01-31-2007, 00:03
Vic, mas marami ka choice dyan sa states. Look for the older model Onkyo and Yamaha receivers. 7.1 na kasi bago ngayon kaya yung mga 5.1 mura na lang. Pioneer receiver ko ngayon pero sira na kaya naghahanap rin ako ng ipapalit.

As what others have metioned overrated ang Bose. Look at the PSB speakers, that's what i have. Meron sila pang entry level and high end, so sa budget mo na lang magkakatalo. Subwoofers, velodyne like what saki said, yun din kasi gamit ko. :)

My movie collection, most are for children (cartoons, disney, pixar, etc.), some are assorted action, scifi, and comedy movies.

VICARA
01-31-2007, 00:09
okay guys, i will narrow down my search sa yamaha, mukhang maganda and feedback. Our CFO is happy too with his yamaha. but i might have to keep my bose a bit longer, equivalent ng isang Kimber din yun. Yung B&W speakers, mahal masyado, I have to renew my 'escort' license and do a month-long of moonlighting work at SanFran.;) (joke lang) hayy..so many toys, so many options.
mang danny, tingnan ko yung optical ports sa weekend. s-video gamit ko pang nanonood ako via my projector but use direct HDMI to my TV not to my receiver. Mali ba yun? I'm happy with my video, its just the audio that i'm trying to improve.

saki, i bet ang ganda ng harman-kardon mo. d'you have a sound proof entertainment room with that?

gundog, what happened to your old onkyo/bose toy? na-liquidate ba and converted to a shooting rig?

ang hirap kasi sa hilig na ganito, parang PC din, kabibili mo lang outmoded na.

VA

wala lang but show off your Audio/Video rig or your PC/home network setup..

gundog
01-31-2007, 00:55
Originally posted by batangueno
Vic, mas marami ka choice dyan sa states. Look for the older model Onkyo and Yamaha receivers. 7.1 na kasi bago ngayon kaya yung mga 5.1 mura na lang. Pioneer receiver ko ngayon pero sira na kaya naghahanap rin ako ng ipapalit.

As what others have metioned overrated ang Bose. Look at the PSB speakers, that's what i have. Meron sila pang entry level and high end, so sa budget mo na lang magkakatalo. Subwoofers, velodyne like what saki said, yun din kasi gamit ko. :)

My movie collection, most are for children (cartoons, disney, pixar, etc.), some are assorted action, scifi, and comedy movies.

if you are interested my friend is selling his B&W front and back speakers and the middle speaker for a nice price. very good condition. he is keeping the B&W sub woofer which is good since i didnt like it personally. give me a buzz if you are interested.

batangueno
01-31-2007, 01:13
Originally posted by gundog
if you are interested my friend is selling his B&W front and back speakers and the middle speaker for a nice price. very good condition. he is keeping the B&W sub woofer which is good since i didnt like it personally. give me a buzz if you are interested.
Same friend ba yan na naghahanap ng barrel? Baka puede trade. :supergrin:

AV Receiver ang kailangan ko ngayon.

saki1611
01-31-2007, 01:28
sir vicara, yup hk sounds great! wala ako dedicated room for my set-up, how i wish i have one, yet punuin yun apartment ko ng sounds. definitive tech subwoofer is great also and much cheaper than velodyne almost twice the price

kunin mo na yun alok ni gundog maganda talaga tunog b&w kahit low end na ampli basta may power.

sir joji, magkano you speakers and ano model?

mtho
01-31-2007, 02:19
teka teka nasaan ba yang B&W? sir vic nasa san fran ka diba? My dad bought his amps in the US via mail order(hindi pa kami marunong maginternet nuon). I think its cheaper that way.

saki,
last time I checked kasing mahal ng open yung velodyne. saan ka bumili ng definitive? sa araneta ave ba?

VICARA
01-31-2007, 03:05
mtho, i'm 45 min away from SanFran via 101, depende sa oras. 101 North is worst in the morning.

i'd like to eyeball first anything i buy so I shun away from online purchase if posibble. my experience when i bought my navigation is a good lesson for me. marami dugas diyan.
B&W is Bowers & Wilkins. they're here (http://www.bwspeakers.com/)

gundog
01-31-2007, 06:03
Originally posted by saki1611
sir vicara, yup hk sounds great! wala ako dedicated room for my set-up, how i wish i have one, yet punuin yun apartment ko ng sounds. definitive tech subwoofer is great also and much cheaper than velodyne almost twice the price

kunin mo na yun alok ni gundog maganda talaga tunog b&w kahit low end na ampli basta may power.

sir joji, magkano you speakers and ano model?

cant remember the model but its the exact copy of my set. im sure u have seen it. yah?:supergrin:

Eye Cutter
01-31-2007, 07:21
got my B&W speakers sa Ginza audio sa d.tuazon and quezon ave. way, way back for less than 30k. lumang 300 series na front, center, rear and sub na matched set yun! hanggang ngayon ang ganda ng tunog.

tignan mo rin yung mordaunt short speakers. the european speaker brands sound way better than their american counterparts.

saki1611
01-31-2007, 08:15
mark, sa spectra ko binili yun def tech ko. di ko lang alam kung may stock pa sila. the base is really good!

mura yun benta ni gundog na speaker, pareho set-up nya ang front nya tower eh. wala ako budget dun and di kasya sa bahay ko. it's very cheap!

mtho
01-31-2007, 09:07
Originally posted by Eye Cutter
got my B&W speakers sa Ginza audio sa d.tuazon and quezon ave. way, way back for less than 30k. lumang 300 series na front, center, rear and sub na matched set yun! hanggang ngayon ang ganda ng tunog.

tignan mo rin yung mordaunt short speakers. the european speaker brands sound way better than their american counterparts.

doc,
mourdant short gamit ko sa bahay, di umabot budget ko sa B&W hehe.

DyunyorBangBang
01-31-2007, 11:53
Sir vic, tama si sir danny, dump your red and white(sometimes yellow for video) freebies cables na kasama sa carton and upgrade it. You got a good sytem already then come to think of it, dadaan sa "filter" cable na freebies yung signal,so expect a deterioration after using it. Budget for cables? 10% ng total cost ng setup nyo, and your safe na pagdating sa quality. What types of cable to use? Daming choices me, Kimber cable, Audioquest, VanDenHul, Transparent Cable, MIT..and so on.. my advice, try to have any for trial if you can. If not, choose on the middle range model, as long you are still on the 10% of your budget.

Same thing sa HDMI cable na gamit nyo, if its freebies parin, u will enjor more sa upgraded cable. By connecting your source(dvd)hdmi output to your tv monitor via hdmi input, congratulation's, it's the correct method. Less is more pagdating sa video.

Then, if you have a good cable already, usually, we just leave our cable as it is, no cleaning or whatsoever ng input or output rca connection ng apmlifier, dvd, tv or satellite receiver. Cleaning using any contact cleaner, this rca's, will improve your sounds(more details) and more colors (for your monitor).

Dito maraming inde aware, positioning ng speaker. Usually, yung left & right front speaker, naka lagay lang sa tabi ng tv, with these, your robbing your system in terms of its performance. Bring it 8 feet (or more apart)then listen and you will have a STEREO separation. Mas gaganda yung localization ng performer(s).How to spot pag ok na sya sa pwesto, play a solo performer, singing just a vocal song, kapag yung singer gumitna sa mismong center ng dalawang speakers, your almost done. Two types nga pala ng positioning ng speaker para sa front: first,yung tinatawag na direct firing, meaning yung dalawang speakers parehong nakaharap sayo(walang angle). Second is, yung tinatawag na toe-in positioning, yung 2 speakers naka angle(around 45 degrees) ang pagkakaharap sayo. Check your manual kung anong prefer setup ng nabili nyong speaker. Reason for this, me mga speaker design na pine-favor yung direct firing due yun yong design characteristic na hinihingi nung mga drivers(tweeter,midrange,woofer) or else mag-susuffer ka na makakuha ng solid image at clear sound. Yung toe-in position, namiminimize yung reflection ng sound sa walls, which is a reflected echo na kapag nag-combine sa original sound...either mabawasan yung high, mid or low frequency. ang epekto, thin or fat-sounding sya. Minsan, we say, ang taba ng baho or walang kalansing.

Another thing, yung layo mo sa front speakers. From 6 feet away to 10 feet and seating on the center, mas preferable. Moving yourself within this distance, mariririg yung different sounds characteristic due to room(big time factor). Kaya find your place.

Height of your speaker also matter, dapat yung tweeter nasa level ng ear. very directional kasi yung tweeter due sa small bandwith ng frequency kesa sa low frequency.

Did you know ang bass frequency eh nakakaapekto rin to improve yung high-frequency? Yes,it does. Kaya dapat proper set-up din yung subwoofer. Don't just put it some where....the proper place is between sa corner ng room. Inde dapat nakadikit sa wall but have it some distance from the wall para sa tightness ng bass or else over-blown ang magiging tunog non(yung tunog na kumakalat yung baho at one-note sya, hirap ma distinguished yung note by note ng music). Adjust little by little yung pwesto nya until mag merge yung sound sa front speakers. We dont want here yung front speakers tumunog then later humahabol si bass. Ang tama, maganda yung transition ng buong sound. Usually me adjustment procedure sa manual sa pagse-set ng cut-off frequency ng subwoofer para sa front speaker.
About sa rear speakers, same thing sa separation just like the front, 8 feet or more but not less than 8feet(sana) as your room permit. Then sa setting ng rear, please...set it subtly. Wag yung mas malakas pa yung rear, it will annoy you. Dapat yung setting na inde ka aware na me rear. By the way, nalabas lang naman yung rear pag me effects, dapat yung lang ang papel nya.
Lastly, yung delay knob setting. Dami dito naglalaro sa delay.More than 30millisecond, its already an echo perceived by our ears, and it creates chaos sa sound. Try to adjust between 8ms to 30ms.
Enjoy!

VICARA
01-31-2007, 12:34
whoa juniorBB, that was a good reading. you seems to know your AV systems in and out. Parang gusto kong i-reset ang setup ko this weekend, that might be a whole day affair. malinis na rin ang alikabok sa mga likod.

I don't have those cables that came with my DVDs anymore. I bought a branded HDMI cable, sabi nila gold plated daw ang mga connector, as if it makes a difference. pati yung subwoofer cable, bagong bili din noon.

Speaker placement is something I cannot do by the book due to my limited real state sa living room ko but i will re-evaluate (again?) this weekend. napapagalitan ako minsan dahil ginagasgas ko raw yung wood flooring.

shukran sadik sa mga tips mo. post ko pics pag tapos na.

VA

bass one
01-31-2007, 18:19
Here's a heads-up on cables and wirings from an MK Sounds professional sound enginieer:

You will notice that some of the Radio Shlock packaging (i.e. Monster) has taken to the new series of lies --- they say it has "400 strands !!!!!!!!!" of wire but nowhere on all the blurb do they say (or even suggest) what the wire gauge is. Unbelievable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ABOUT WIRES, INTERCONNECTS and CABLES...

Not only should you not waste [all] your money on cables, but, generally speaking, the money would be FAR better spent on better speakers or lower distortion components earlier on in the chain, such as a better DVD player, better converter(s) ...

There are many reasons why much of that cable/interconnect/wire stuff is mostly sales and marketing hype nonsense. Sure, you should have wire thicker than a human hair (or thicker and better than #22 so-called "speaker wire") to carry speaker current at low impedance / resistance.

And sure, you should have reasonable shielded low level cables with gold plated RCA connectors to keep things clean.

In the case of M&K satellite speakers, and all other satellite speakers which don't have bass frequencies going to them, the speakers do NOT have large (12" or 15" ) drivers requiring heavy current capability, AND the requirement to dump that current back into the amp as the cone mechanically comes to rest.

With older speakers, i.e. so-called "full range" (they really weren't anyway...) speakers from the 70's through the 90's, which had large drivers, this was much more important.

SOME THEORY

When you put a voltage through a speaker coil, it mechanically moves the cone. Now that the cone is moving, it is generating its own voltage. This voltage has as ITS load the amplifier. Since the voltage is flowing through the resistance (or impedance) of the speaker wire, there is current flowing; and this current has to go somewhere. Where it goes is back into the amplifier's power supply. This phenomena is called Damping Factor; the ratio of the speaker impedance to the actual source impedance of the amplifier. [the higher number the better]

Nearly any moderate wire, larger than say, #14, will do just fine. In fact, if you are wiring speakers in walls, you can use Stranded # 12 or even #10 THHN electrical wire (if you have that available; it costs just a few cents a foot) and it will be just fine. Plus electricians "understand" THHN; since it's slippery it may be pulled through walls and conduit with ease; it's teflon and therefore won't support combustion; and it comes in at least 10 colors for convenience.

There are some specific "speaker wires" with NEC plenum fire code ratings. These are often just good speaker wire with a teflon coating instead of vinyl insulation. The "theory" isn't that the speaker wire will get so hot (because of so much current) that it melts; the "theory" is that flames already existing will melt the insulation and subsequently short the wire; then the amplifier it's connected to will overheat, causing yet another fire. While all of this seems somewhat obscure, I have seen improper audio installations done by amateurs where someone used a so-called "50 watt" 8 ohm L pad in a wall; it was connected to a 300W power amp; and the end user kept turning the wall control down and the preamp volume up and then the L-Pad started overheating and smoking, and it was the smoke damage (with no flames) that the homeowner was concerned about.

SOME BRANDS

So any of the general designed-for-speakers wire such as Monster cable or even the radio Shack house brand are quite reasonable, and provide a low enough impedance path. There are some excellent higher priced brands where you could spend from $30 to $20,000 for a set of speaker cables. Nearly every wire audiophile wire (ahem, interconnect) company on the planet is listed here:

http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/links5.htm

As far as low level wires go, I personally like the purple Monster RCA-RCA's sold as automotive interconnect (ahem) cables. They're cheap and excellent.
Should you prefer to solder your own, Mogami 2552 and some better RCA connectors will net you a superb interconnect at a pauper's price.

In some very delicate circuitry, if the source impedance is too high, (and perhaps the destination input impedance is also quite high) then cable capacitance becomes a factor in rolling off the high frequencies.

With nearly all typical receivers these days, this is not an issue, although a reasonably good cable should always be used for "digital" signals (and video) because they are much higher bandwidth than plain old analog audio, and are at the frequencies where the wire becomes a true transmission line, where the lumped inductance and lumped capacitance have a true characteristic impedance at the frequencies of interest, often square waves with fast rise times at frequencies of tens or even hundreds of Mhz.

So-called digital interconnects may be helpful in keeping the leading edges of square waves from being so sloppy at the receiving end that they can't be decoded properly by the [schmitt triggers] in the input circuitry.

For short runs, say a foot or two, do not waste your money with outrageously expensive interconnects. The amount of cable capacitance is microscopic compared to the rest of the circuit topology. A sixty to a one hundred foot run is another story, especially where the wire may be passing through an interference field, and the subject for a whole other topic of unbalanced vs balanced interconnects.

For subwoofers, nearly anything will do just fine; even if the wire were to roll off inside the regular passband of, say, 25 kHz it doesn't matter, because there 's nothing above essentially 300 Hz going into the sub from the receiver anyway. In other words, don't spend thousands on wire when what you should have done is get a much better D/A converter that's far cleaner than any wire difference could ever be. And remember that sub placement in the room makes a TREMENDOUS difference.

SOME HISTORY. It MIGHT BE ALL MY FAULT...

Not only have I been doing this for some 40 years, but in a strange way, I am partially to blame for this WHOLE abusive wire phenomena, because in the '70 s Leonard Marshall came back from Japan with some Mogami oxygen-free copper microphone wire; we set up a demo at an LA AES meeting where we A-B'd the different kinds of 2-conductor shielded cable (Belden, Alpha, Mogami) using 100 foot sections and feeding a square wave in one end and looking at the other end with a scope. Only the mogami looked really good; the others looked vaguely like square waves but were not nearly as clean, with either rolloff or ringing, or both.

That meeting, for better or worse, with the discussions that ensued, was the birthplace of quite a few successful companies whose founders saw a huge sales and marketing hole, and that whole genre has grown into a cult-like phenomena throughout the industry.

Another early proponent was Mark Levinson himself, (The real person) who along with John Curl, (another very real person) in 1975, got some "coin silver" annealed wire from Switzerland (my guess is this is what the Swiss banks do with all the dimes) and it appeared to clean up the leading edge of the square waves, so that square waves going through the wire looked clean on an oscilloscope while other wires looked "less" clean --- similar to the test reported above.

They also pioneered the use of exotic connectors such as the now famous "Camac" connector, actually a miniature Lemo Connector, purportedly for the "better connection" gold on gold provided, but essentially to be so esoteric as to force you to get your wires from them because no one else in the audio world used those connectors, as they were far too good (read "far too expensive") for anyu company attempting to squeeze money out of you from replacing all their RCA connectors with. Why replace a 30 cent connector with one that was $18???...

And thus an industry was born.

Many of the explanations on the wire companies pages read like a science fiction story, a fantasy, or both. Certain manufacturers simply have invented psuedo or weird science, (which I usually call comic book science), some have repealed the laws of physics, and some have simply done everything a little better (better silver, better copper, better solder, and so on) and therefore their results are "a little better".

The wire and connector phenomena has extended itself to "Power Cables", "Duplex receptacles" (otherwise known as 'outlets'). Of course they don't necessarily mention that you should really check and rewire all the AC power from the utility company pole to your house and to your audio system, but now we have companies starting to address those very issues of clean, low impedance electrical power, with competent grounding. There are links to those companies as well on the B.A.S. link above.

My suggestion: if you like it, buy it. Chances are you only live once --- enjoy yourself!

Now here is a link to a great THX set-up:
http://www.mksound.com/surround/

ENJOY READING!

VICARA
01-31-2007, 19:59
hey bass one, that one too is a lengthy reading. and thanks for the links too, very informative.

now, lets see those beloved sight-n-sound systems...