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nitrox920
01-31-2007, 07:11
What's an ideal Defense plan when one is located in a rural countryside setting in the Philippines.

Area is located 10-15 km from the nearest town. 2-3 kms of rough road before one reaches the house. Nearest neighbor is my employee that is 500 meters away. the house is 300 meters away from a major river and 3 km.from the sea.
a 6ft perimer fence sorrounds the bungalow. Stay duration 3 night nights of the week with my wife, 4yrs old kid and his yaya. converted the bathroom into a panic room. sealed it with concrete. Cellphone signal is okay. If anything happens at night I expect police assistance to arrived the next morning.

1. What would be an ideal firearms to have? How many should one have? How many ammo would be enough?

2. Whats your thought on this due to the COMELEC GUN BAN. Do I Leave the firearms in the farmhouse and risk it from being stolen or bring it back to the city and risk the checkpoint?

TTPower
01-31-2007, 07:22
cguro if i were in ur place i would leave a shotgun in the panic room and a box of ammo. earmuffs na rin hahaha :) and bring a handgun with me all the time preferably hi-cap :laughabove: regarding the gunban.... apply ka na ng excemption hehehehe

mikey177
01-31-2007, 07:29
What potential threats do you think you'll go up against? Communist or Muslim rebels? Armed bandits? Akyat bahay gang?

Valor1
01-31-2007, 07:32
Recommendations:

1) get a high capacity howitzer tank
2) employ a private army with an assortment of MP5s, Ak47s, and Ar15s.

kung talagang titirahin ka sa countryside, hirap magdepensa kahit sampu pa kao sa bahay na armed and dangerous.

kapag nalaman pa nila na marami kayong baril baka "kumpiskahin" pa yan ng mga Nice People Around at maging mitsa pa ng buhay nyo yan.

best is train everyone in your house on how to shoot and how to react on certain situations.

you know how the gun ban goes, kung malakas loob mo e di go ahead and carry guns with you.

revo
01-31-2007, 07:44
nitrox, I hate to disappoint you but as the more recent experience in Iraq has shown, there is no ideal armed defense to an insurgency.

If the Nice People Around plan to get you because they hate you, they will. They have the dubious honor of being the oldest continuing insurgency on the planet. Even the Americans know this and they don't even bother.

You should assume that your residence is not defensible and develop a safety plan based on that.

You should think 'counter-insurgency' and plan along those lines. Your best defense is your relationships to the local people and is determined by whether they hate you or they love you.

Guns are useless pieces of metal, really. Somebody has to hate you enough to pull th trigger or have somebody else do so.

nitrox920
01-31-2007, 07:55
well titi power... your right! i forgot all about the earmuff. thanks :) :agree:

mikey177 - most probable an NPA and armed bandit. few years ago. In the early 90's my father was visited by 30 fully armed NPA's. they went inside the the farm and took our truck. We found the truck dump and abandon in a canal 30 kms away from our place.

Valor1-I'm considering your 2nd option. Set up my own security force and attached it with the govt CVO program (civilian Volunteer Org)

Any firearms in mine the quantity and the kinds?

chowchow
01-31-2007, 09:29
Dapat at least 2 shotguns at handgun plus lots of ammo ang kailangan . Trained your wife and kids. Lots of dogs outside for immediate warning so makaresponse kaagad. Text kaagad for help pag malaman ninyo may masamang kasama.

HEAVY
01-31-2007, 19:23
i would go consult some expert on this (like maybe bien of soe) but just thinking about it here's what i would probably plan for.

a rifle, m4, m16 or m1 carbine with a bandolier-full of hicap mags. that's my first defensive gun, with a hicap sidearm and at least 2 mags on your waist all the time, maybe a hicap 1911 .45, or a glock 17.

a shotgun ( or 2 if your wife can handle 1) in the panic room, a bagfull of ammo to go with it.

these two will be employed if the **** really hits the fan.

the perimeter fence should be sturdy but see-through (so that the force you're against cannot use it for cover). i would put 2, an inner and outer fence, rolls of razor wire. and do something to prevent vehicles from driving through. it might also be good to have windows that can look out to all sides of the property, para walang blind spot that they can exploit.

big spotlights to light up the property, para wala silang cover of darkness. (the power switch should all be in your bedroom. have the main switchbox installed in your bath/panic room.

big dogs. rotts, gs, dobes. they will serve as deterrent to burglars and thieves and they will warn you of anyone approaching, enough time to arm yourself and to gather your family into the panic room.

extra cellphone, chargers, flashlights, med kits, water, food, etc., in the panic room.

just as important as the defensive/siege scenario is a bug-out plan. what your egress scenario? how do you get the hell outta dodge when i becomes impossible to hold out? have a powerful vehicle quickly accessible and plan a route of escape. (hey, maybe this should be your first option. maybe the panic room should be the garage?)

that's the doomsday movie playing in my head.

oh, dont forget body armor for everyone.

Django
01-31-2007, 19:23
Lots of dogs and a couple of "pugakangs" hidden in strategic places will do.

9MX
01-31-2007, 19:46
Originally posted by Django
"pugakangs" hidden in strategic places will do.

gundog and pogi have masahistas in strategic places:animlol:

chowchow
01-31-2007, 19:47
Ang nakakatukot sa atin ay ang kalaban gumagamit ng granada. Yan na hope for the best na lang. Bakbakan mo kaagad .

darwin25
01-31-2007, 19:56
Originally posted by nitrox920
well titi power... your right! i forgot all about the earmuff. thanks :) :agree:

mikey177 - most probable an NPA and armed bandit. few years ago. In the early 90's my father was visited by 30 fully armed NPA's. they went inside the the farm and took our truck. We found the truck dump and abandon in a canal 30 kms away from our place.

Valor1-I'm considering your 2nd option. Set up my own security force and attached it with the govt CVO program (civilian Volunteer Org)

Any firearms in mine the quantity and the kinds?

What province are you in Region 6?

There are 2 main armed groups in Region 6. The NPA and the RPA-ABB. You should know what is the dominant group in your place. Both of them requires differrent handling. RPA-ABB is the more violent group. Ang you should ask some known NPA or RPA-ABB contacts in the barrio to know what is your current standing in those groups. Maging totoo ka sa sarili mo. Basta na lang ba pumasok ang grupong yun at kinuha nag truck nyo or hiniling/hiningi/hiniram yun sa inyo? Baka naman kasi over-reaction lang yan that could worsen your situation. If you create your own security force against those groups and it turned out that those group does not treat you as an enemy, there's no turning back. Talagang itratrato ka na nilang kalaban. Lalo na kung ikakabit mo yun sas CVO. Didn't you know that CVO is the most convenient source of arms for the insurgents? Many CVO has relatives in the NPA and RPA-ABB. Why do you think many CAFGU and military detachments gets raided without firing a single shot?. Its the CVO who supplies intelligence for the NPA and RPA-ABB against the military. At sila ang pinakamalakas magbenta ng issue firearms nila. Man, you should know more about how these things work. Hindi pwedeng puro tapang at galit ang pinaiiral. And if you are going to set up your own security force, make sure you are going to exceed the firepower of your expected "visitors". Otherwise, your security force will just be a target for disarmament. Remember you are dealing with battle hardened insurgents. Hindi pwedeng sekyu lang ang kukunin mo dyan. Can you afford 20 security men and above + weapons? These people can swoop down on your security force 5 times that number. They will spend months planning how to raid your compound. Believe me they will get your guns. Trust me, I spent 7 years dealing with these situations. I know how to deal with these people.

Originally posted by revo


You should think 'counter-insurgency' and plan along those lines. Your best defense is your relationships to the local people and is determined by whether they hate you or they love you.

Guns are useless pieces of metal, really. Somebody has to hate you enough to pull th trigger or have somebody else do so.

I agree 100% with revo.

s0nny_g17
01-31-2007, 20:01
1. bring a knife hidden somewhere in your body

2. lagyan mo kuryente ibabaw fence mo. delikado sa bata pero mataas naman fence mo so i guess hinde na un maaabot ng anak mo

3. security camera sa gate w/ microphone para alam mo kung may tao sa labas bahay mo and kung ano pinag-uusapan nila

4. make friends or just talk to them. karaniwan ay gusto lang nun magpakilala and siempre manghingi syo ng revolutionary tax pero kung malaki u can make excuses. 1000/year is ok + kapag meron ka nakaaway pwede mo ipatira sa kanila

5.. land mines sa tabi ng bakod. hehehe

revo
01-31-2007, 20:03
Tactics defeat equipment everytime.

Well said, Darwin25.

darwin25
01-31-2007, 20:25
If you present yourself as a target, you will be. Keep a low profile man. Marami din cases na yung mga CVO/Cafgu joins the NPA bringing their issue weapons with them.

In Morong, Bataan in 1995. A whole detachment of CAFGU joined the NPA bringing along with them all their issue weapons and equipment.

isuzu
01-31-2007, 20:28
Originally posted by Valor1
kung talagang titirahin ka sa countryside, hirap magdepensa kahit sampu pa kao sa bahay na armed and dangerous.

kapag nalaman pa nila na marami kayong baril baka "kumpiskahin" pa yan ng mga Nice People Around at maging mitsa pa ng buhay nyo yan.

best is train everyone in your house on how to shoot and how to react on certain situations.

I think what you need aside from guns is presence of mind and a plan on what to do in case a scenario happens.

There was a young sugar farmer in our province who was attacked by at least 50 rebels during the mid-80's. He was armed with an M-1 carbine and had only two 30-round mags, although he had lots of loose ammo that he kept in a bag. He had his deaf-mute sister reload the mag whenever one was empty. There was also an electric fence surrounding his house.

Some of the rebels were able to breach the electric fence, and he was able to hit (and probably kill), at least 10 rebels. He spared the life of a young rebel (about 14 years old) that he had on his sights. He just shot the ground causing the rebel to drop his rifle and flee. His sister was hit in the buttocks during the firefight. Nevertheless, no rebel was able to enter his house. The rebels withdrew after they found out that they were at the losing end.

They survived, but he suffered what we now call Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

darwin25
01-31-2007, 20:54
Originally posted by HEAVY
i would go consult some expert on this (like maybe bien of soe) but just thinking about it here's what i would probably plan for.


No offense to Bien, but before I would hire a security expert, I'll hire a PR person muna or ask a respected local close to the NPA or RPA-ABB to help me settle my dispute with these groups. If you are reasonable, these groups can also be reasonable. But if you dont set aside your prejudices, then dont bother. Of course if you already treat these groups as your enemy, them go ahead but I dont think any security expert will be able to help you.

kontra
01-31-2007, 21:53
be friends with the nice people around your area. no harm in doing this and less thing to worry about. a friend's father bought a farmland in a remote barrio in cavite, the first month, he introduced himself to his neighbors and the brangay tanod. when he bought a generator set, he gave one electricity (good enough for a light bulb) to his neighbors.

another is in batangas, once a month he gives drinks and pulutan to his neighbors and every fiesta he gives a few thousand pesos to the barrio for the celebration.

both of them didn't grow up in that province. never encountered any problems. to think that both of these areas are infested by the nice people around. the military even acknowledge the presence of this nice people. pr matters a lot, specially in the province.

revo
01-31-2007, 22:20
Damn...after so many years away from Pinas, it's still a war zone in some places.

chocoboy
01-31-2007, 23:31
Nitrox... Kung NPA ang kalaban mo, i'd suggest that u leave that place and never come back. It's useless to set up a defensive camp in ur home. Aabangan ka lang nyan sa labas at dun ka titirahin. Damay pa pamilya for sure. As a lot of the guys mentioned, di naman masasamang tao mga NPA and they wouldnt harm you for no reason at all.

Kung mga akyat bahay, adok, sira ulo at iba pang criminal ang iniiwasan mo, here's my suggestion:

Perimeter / outside of your main house:

1. Raise ur fence to at least 3meters(10ft) if possible 4meters with barb wires (2ft ht) leaning towards ur house. Place an emergency exit door going towards d river (for ur escape plan). Should be made of metal and locked with a big padlock.

2. Lots of lightings inside and outside of d perimeter.

3. Surveillance Cameras w/ night mode. (locally available sa malls even in true value... not so expensive)

4. Dogs... lots of them. Kahit na askal lang basta marunong magingay pag may ibang tao.

Panic Room:
1.As for ur panic room, i dont know how u designed it but the doors should be made of metal. Actually any other room w/ concreate walls will do even with wooden doors (as long as solid wooden door).
2. Make sure u have phones in there (preferably cellphones) para di kayang putulin ang linya. If anything should happen, call someone immediately para alam lang nila ang nangyayari.
3. Install a mini cam outside of ur panic / bed room's door showing you whats happening outside ur room (preferably hidden). Para alam mo kung may nagaabang sa labas or kung kelan sila susugod sa kwarto mo.

Weapons:
1. Pump shotgun w/ flashlight (and if possible... laser devise)installed. w/ 1box of ammo. Di mo na mauubos yun! Barricade urself and ur family in d room behind d bed or something u can use as cover. Abangan mo na lang kung may pumasok sa pinto (dats if kung may tiyaga sila gibain pinto mo). Oh by d way, turn ur lights off sa loob ng kwarto. para sila lang ang exposed.

2. Pistol / Revolver (holstered w/ extra ammo... last resort na yun. I doubt makikipag putukan pa sa yo yung kalaban mo. This is also usefull in case u decided to retreat... Mabigat ang shotgun para bitbitin habang tumatakas. Tatamaan ka lang sa likod!

3. M16 or any rifle w/ 3 30rounder mags... In cases na nasa labas pa ng perimeter ang kalaban... (unlikely case... kasi baka kasuhan ka pa pag may binaril ka sa labas ng bakod). its just nice to have one... just in case :)

Plan of escape:
If possible... iwan ka ng motor boat sa river. Wors scenario na no choice ka but to run away. I think this is ur best chance na di ka mahahabol...

Hope this helps...
And i also hope u never have to use my advice... keep safe!


:thumbsup:

darwin25
01-31-2007, 23:41
panic room - a room where you totally panic.:supergrin:

Ok bad joke. Alam kong corny ako. I just can't help it:tongueout:

darwin25
01-31-2007, 23:45
Originally posted by chocoboy


1. Place an emergency exit door going towards d river (for ur escape plan).

oops. No offense chocoboy but if I was the bad guy, the river is where I'll be coming from.

chocoboy
01-31-2007, 23:49
Originally posted by darwin25
oops. No offense chocoboy but if I was the bad guy, the river is where I'll be coming from.

That's even better... use their boat :rofl:

darwin25
02-01-2007, 00:11
Originally posted by chocoboy
That's even better... use their boat :rofl:

:supergrin:

toxic
02-01-2007, 02:16
AK47, Shotgun, Grenades and any piece you can find..Lots of ammos, comunication equipment , body armour, Body Guards , armed your yaya, electrified fence with power generator back up and syempre Lots of Friendly connections in your particular area.

Or alsa balutan leave that hotspot and transfer to another safer place .

darwin25
02-01-2007, 03:46
Originally posted by nitrox920
Thanks for your thoughts revo,

I edited my post because i feel that i was out of topic since the scenario were mostly in the urban setting except for the rare jungle scenario.hahahah

Things in the provinces and towns are far different from urbanized area.

Concerning carrying of HP Rifles within my property why not..:2gun:

1. Its the only place where i can carry it without additional permits.:banana:

2. I dont feel that secure being armed with just a handgun. An HP Rifle is better when distance is a factor.
:50cal:

3. The Army intel has been informing us (community) that the NPA are hitting "SOFT" targets (civilians) for their AGAW ARMAS project. to increase their firepower capability to collect more taxes. it's not ideology or social justice anymore but more of banditry, extortion and terrorism.

I dont feel that i am in danger in my farm or fishpond with the people that works with me or with the local people.:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :whip: I dont have a problem with that. :bowdown: :bowdown:

Its the bad people ( NPA,Armed groups,Bandits,drunkard, gangs):devildance::devildance: that i am concerned with.:devildance:

On community service i already done that I brought in medical mission in my area.:music: I am also part of a civic group that "leads the way".

That's good that a friend of yours has good relations with the NPA's they dont bother him too "much" anymore. I guess they got what they wanted from him...Please remind your friend that the NPA's is the enemy of the State. :shame: A group of terrorist that extort, kidnap and execute innocent people.
:noevil:

This is from your post in another thread.

Now I know where your coming from. Hostile din pala talaga intention mo against sa mga insurgent groups and from what I understand you dont have any intentions of getting on their good side. In that case I hope you find somebody else who can help you. Good luck.

Allegra
02-01-2007, 03:56
Originally posted by darwin25
If you present yourself as a target, you will be. Keep a low profile man. Marami din cases na yung mga CVO/Cafgu joins the NPA bringing their issue weapons with them.

In Morong, Bataan in 1995. A whole detachment of CAFGU joined the NPA bringing along with them all their issue weapons and equipment.


hehe I've lived out here in the boodocks all of my life , we have fishpponds in Bataan , a farm in quezon
Not once have I felt I needd an armory or even a shotgun

atmarcella
02-01-2007, 05:40
Originally posted by Django
Lots of dogs and a couple of "pugakangs" hidden in strategic places will do.

atty,

"sumpak" ata tawag nyan dito:supergrin:

chowchow
02-01-2007, 10:22
Sarap nang tilapia, bangus at prawns natin dyan.

Django
02-01-2007, 19:05
Originally posted by atmarcella
atty,

"sumpak" ata tawag nyan dito:supergrin:


Yep, I know. :)

But Nitro says he is from Region 6 so I think he should understand what I mean. :supergrin:

isuzu
02-01-2007, 19:46
Originally posted by nitrox920
Valor1-I'm considering your 2nd option. Set up my own security force and attached it with the govt CVO program (civilian Volunteer Org)

Easier said than done. The Army or the PNP does not just easily allow a person who can muster a group of people to be attached to the CVO. They tried it before and it failed. The groups were hard to control and prone to abuse. The Army and the PNP got the brunt of the abuses of these CVOs.

isuzu
02-01-2007, 20:02
Originally posted by chocoboy
Nitrox... Kung NPA ang kalaban mo, i'd suggest that u leave that place and never come back. It's useless to set up a defensive camp in ur home. Aabangan ka lang nyan sa labas at dun ka titirahin. Damay pa pamilya for sure. As a lot of the guys mentioned, di naman masasamang tao mga NPA and they wouldnt harm you for no reason at all.

If you plan to declare war with the NPA, buy a memorial plan, seriously. I know there were lots of sugar farmers who fought the NPA during the 80s. Tactically, they won. But overall, they lost. Until now, they couldn't even go around town freely; they made enemies, not friends. They got into a situation that made their lives complicated. Let the AFP or the PNP do the counter-insurgency work.

We know that during the height of the insurgency, some of our laborers sympathized with the rebels. We were in a situation where our hands were tied; we weren't able to fully attend to the needs of our laborers because the Philsucom was paying a flat rate for our sugar and it was even below our cost. We didn't discriminate against employees who sympathized with the rebels. We respected their decision. The employees also respected us. It worked for both us and those employees in the long run.

darwin25
02-01-2007, 20:22
He doesn't need to declare war against the NPA. All he needs to do is to let the NPA know that he intends them no harm or vise-versa if he does. If he does not wish to be bothered he may say so. Pagbibigyan sya kung wala namang reklamo ang ibang tao laban sa kanya. He will just be asked to stay neutral. Sorry to say but the CPP/NPA makes it a point to get involved in community disputes to earn sympathizers and get the feel of the masses. Is he one of the suspected "intels" in the barrio? I think he is. Then most probably he is already in the "SO" list. SO stands to for Standing Order. It means you will be closely monitored by the NPA and its local party committees down to the baranggay level. If by any chance, somebody tips off the presence of rebels in a particular area which results to the death of NPA members, eyes will be looking your way. Sorry to say but good luck. I think he is bringing trouble upon himself and now he is finding a way to protect himself. If by any chance you think you are in the "SO" list, you can make it known to the rebels that you are no threat and you do not wish to be bothered. They will conduct an investigation to clear you of any suspicion. After you've been cleared, all you need to do is to stay neutral.

Its up to you how you handle it. You can go on declare war against the NPA or you clear yourself and stay neutral. I hope you and your family stays safe.

atmarcella
02-01-2007, 21:42
Originally posted by Django
Yep, I know. :)

But Nitro says he is from Region 6 so I think he should understand what I mean. :supergrin:

oooppps i didnt notice that:supergrin:

nitro taga diin ka sa aton...bacolod o iloilo?? basi may kilala to didto nga pwede ta storyahon, kung problema mo npa labanx2 gid taga bacolod ka:supergrin:

chowchow
02-01-2007, 23:05
Ang iba naman pumayag namay AFP detachment na nakabase sa lupa nila para libre sa security.

Allegra
02-02-2007, 02:20
Originally posted by chowchow
Ang iba naman pumayag namay AFP detachment na nakabase sa lupa nila para libre sa security.

e di dalwa pang tax ang babayaran nyan

asian_glockster
02-02-2007, 04:44
If CT's will visit your house/farm, it may only be two things, first is they wanted to collect/extort revolutionary tax and or get your high powered firearm, or any type of firearm if somebody informed them that you have any and second, to carry out the "sentence" if found guilty for "crimes against the people".

What I'm afraid of are hoodlums, robbers and drug addicts....

chowchow
02-02-2007, 08:10
Originally posted by asian_glockster
If CT's will visit your house/farm, it may only be two things, first is they wanted to collect/extort revolutionary tax and or get your high powered firearm, or any type of firearm if somebody informed them that you have any and second, to carry out the "sentence" if found guilty for "crimes against the people".

What I'm afraid of are hoodlums, robbers and drug addicts....


Tutuo yan, walang escape sa problema sa atin. It could be your neighbor, friend or the military themselves.

cebuboy
02-03-2007, 10:51
it is better to make friends than to make enemies:)

isuzu
02-03-2007, 14:08
Originally posted by cebuboy
it is better to make friends than to make enemies:)

I believe you, Bai! You get to gain a lot when you make friends; stand to lose everything when you make enemies.:)

nitrox920
02-03-2007, 18:13
Originally posted by chowchow
Ang nakakatukot sa atin ay ang kalaban gumagamit ng granada. Yan na hope for the best na lang. Bakbakan mo kaagad .

heard about the Cotabato jailbreak few days ago..they used rfilegrenade to blow up the wall to make a hole...:outtahere:

For me to established a security group is to expensive and has no return. what i plan to do is order license firearms (long & short) and distribute it to my trusted employees that resides in my farm/fishpond property. they are my 1st line of defense but before handing them the firearms I will give them a lecture on basic gun safety and gun laws. I also plan allocate a budget for a monthly target practice session for them.

Izusu-
Yes i remembered the incident about the capitalist/landlord sugarplanter who fought it out with a group of insurgent in the northern town of negros armed with only an m1 carbine.:thumbsup: I know he suffered a post traumatic disorder syndrome but thats better than ending up DEAD. Thats where you seperate the boys from the men... he even had the time to think not to hit a 14 yrs old rebel .. kudos to him....

:bowdown: :bowdown:

cebuboy
02-03-2007, 18:19
ahhh yes the grenade, it is a nice tool to have for offense and defense :) its just hard to throw it accurately.

3kings
02-03-2007, 18:39
hope my 2 tips help.

1st-get to know all the old folks. lolo at lola. treat them with respect, help and care for them and all the rest will respect you too, thus no problem with the nice people around.

2nd. if the 1st one doesnt work (which i think it will) have a trusty m16 with you and a .45cal pistol on hand with lots of ammo and prayer.

chowchow
02-03-2007, 19:05
Haul ass and move elsewhere. Life is too short to show you are matapang in such a place.

isuzu
02-03-2007, 20:26
Originally posted by nitrox920
heard about the Cotabato jailbreak few days ago..they used rfilegrenade to blow up the wall to make a hole...:outtahere:

For me to established a security group is to expensive and has no return. what i plan to do is order license firearms (long & short) and distribute it to my trusted employees that resides in my farm/fishpond property. they are my 1st line of defense but before handing them the firearms I will give them a lecture on basic gun safety and gun laws. I also plan allocate a budget for a monthly target practice session for them.

Izusu-
Yes i remembered the incident about the sugar farmer who fought it out with a group of insurgent in the northern town of negros armed with only an m1 carbine.:thumbsup: I know he suffered a post traumatic disorder syndrome but thats better than ending up DEAD. Thats where you seperate the boys from the men... he even had the time to think not to hit a 14 yrs old rebel with a rifle..nust be a good christian and a good farmer.kudos to him....
:bowdown: :bowdown:

Just choose the people who you will issue guns carefully. And always update them on the proper handling of guns. Also, get them to practice at a licensed range whenever possible. This way, they'll have a thorough comprehension and a sense of responsibility in terms of handling firearms. When somebody tries to abuse his authority by using the gun, disarm him immediately. I had one of my dad's trusted employee in our prawn farm fired for being drunk and bringing our issued firearm out of the premises.

You can apply for the firearms through owner-user licensing. The firearms are owned by the business and used by your employees. The address of your business should be your farm so that you won't need a permit to carry and for the people to restrict carrying firearms within the property.:)

darwin25
02-03-2007, 20:28
Originally posted by nitrox920
heard about the Cotabato jailbreak few days ago..they used rfilegrenade to blow up the wall to make a hole...:outtahere:

For me to established a security group is to expensive and has no return. what i plan to do is order license firearms (long & short) and distribute it to my trusted employees that resides in my farm/fishpond property. they are my 1st line of defense but before handing them the firearms I will give them a lecture on basic gun safety and gun laws. I also plan allocate a budget for a monthly target practice session for them.


:bowdown: :bowdown:

Just me bro, I would not give a gun even to my most trusted employee unless I can pay him enough to actually ask him to risk his life protecting me, my family or my property. Alam mo naman siguro ang nangyayari kapag nagkakagipitan na sa pera ang tao. Walang kagamitan at pakikipag-relasyong sagrado.

nitrox920
02-04-2007, 02:06
I dont intend to put up a detachment on my land. thats just courting trouble. Its like putting a billboard declaring an all out war on them.

Darwin you mentioned on your previous post what happened in Bataan in 1995 that a whole detachmentof CAFGU went to the other side.I believe these CAFGU did it not because of ideological reason but due to late payment of their allowances.

It also happened in Negros in the late 80's majority of the CAFGUs in the southern part of the island took over a town (ISABELA Negros Occ). they mounted a 50cal on top of the townhall and sealed of traffic. They held the town hostage for a week. It was not because of ideological reason but because of DELAYED allowances.

Their handlers at that time were ARMY officers and of course you know what happens when money is involved, especially with govt agencies.

After the incident the private and govt group decided that the funds will be distributed by private individuals(sugarplanter)and nothing untowards happened after that.

It was so effective that the insurgency came to a halt in negros. As usual politics came to the picture and dismantled these it was the time of then President Ramos. Sec.of Defense RAFAEL ALUNAN. (a native of negros)was the author. thanks to him the insurgents are back in the visayas.

What i hated most of all was that these CAFGUs were disarmed. they were not even given firearms to defend themselves only 10,000pesos as a separation pay. Some had to apply for security guards, some had to leave their place of residence and those who stayed behind were executed one at a time up to now. These people sacrifice their life for their community and see how govt let them down.

Whats funny at the same time in mindanao. the MNLF, the rebel group was absorbed by the govt and given millions of pesos and they were never disarmed.

just imagine an enemy of the state being absorbed by the goverment while those CAFGUs who fought along side our soldiers were disarmed. where is justice.

Thats what i call smart govt policies..:steamed: :steamed:

Dealing with ARMY and PNP.i think we just have to keep distance not because we dont trust them, but because they can be transferred anytime anywhere by policies and the civilians are always left in the dark and the cold....
:drowning:

Thats why I believe we the civilians should take the responsibility to protect ourself with proper firepower. we have to give it to ERAP who sign EO 194 he saw what was comming to the civilian community.

nitrox920
02-04-2007, 03:27
Originally posted by revo
Damn...after so many years away from Pinas, it's still a war zone in some places.

Yes revo... pinas is still at war.. especially in manila..okay lang sa probinsya kasi bakbakan nga baril.. yung worst BOMBING in metro manila by muslim terrorist...its still safe in the provinces.:banana:

nitrox920
02-04-2007, 03:44
[QUOTE]Originally posted by isuzu
[B]If you plan to declare war with the NPA, buy a memorial plan, seriously. I know there were lots of sugar farmers who fought the NPA during the 80s. Tactically, they won. But overall, they lost. Until now, they couldn't even go around town freely; they made enemies, not friends. They got into a situation that made their lives complicated.

:shocked: I never mentioned that i plan to declare war with the NPA(NONE PEOPLES ARMY).

In the 80's while some sugarfarmers left the country with the tails behind their back, otherS fought back ,if they did not it would have been a different story now. The NPAs at that time were already inside the city raiding police outpost left and right.The people of the visayas stood up and won. These "warrior" people still go around the city freely in restaurants,bars,hotel etc...like normal people. no bodyguards

Let the AFP or the PNP do the counter-insurgency work.
:agree: 100%

nitrox920
02-04-2007, 04:30
Originally posted by chocoboy
Nitrox... Kung NPA ang kalaban mo, i'd suggest that u leave that place and never come back. It's useless to set up a defensive camp in ur home. Aabangan ka lang nyan sa labas at dun ka titirahin. Damay pa pamilya for sure. As a lot of the guys mentioned, di naman masasamang tao mga NPA and they wouldnt harm you for no reason at all.

Kung mga akyat bahay, adok, sira ulo at iba pang criminal ang iniiwasan mo, here's my suggestion:

And i also hope u never have to use my advice... keep safe!


:thumbsup:

:agree:

Shotgun... I agree.

Pistol...that's right! the pistol is the last resort in a fire fight

on the M16... bahala na ma kasohan ko nga pagdala nga baril sa labas nga bakod just as long that my family are safe.

on them waiting outside and hit on you..that happened in the southern part of Negros. this big fishpond owner was ambushed on his way out. his was a political big wig in his district. His a high profile individual with backup security

nitrox920
02-04-2007, 04:42
Originally posted by Allegra
hehe I've lived out here in the boodocks all of my life , we have fishpponds in Bataan , a farm in quezon
Not once have I felt I needd an armory or even a shotgun

Allegra...It's better to have a rifle or a shotgun maski isa, especially when one is in the countryside. I prefer the shotgun cause it doesnt look inviting compared to an AK or a 16.

nitrox920
02-04-2007, 04:59
Originally posted by darwin25
This is from your post in another thread.

Now I know where your coming from. Hostile din pala talaga intention mo against sa mga insurgent groups and from what I understand you dont have any intentions of getting on their good side. In that case I hope you find somebody else who can help you. Good luck.

In the first place Darwin I dont have any hostile intention against these insurgent group. These are TERRORIST.... the US and the EU openly declared this a few years ago...I dont understand why until now some people still consider them NICE... is it because they are afraid.

And on their good side... sorry to say THEY DONT HAVE ANY...
yes ..they do pala.. have a good side... its when they talk and at the same time point their guns at you...

what's worst... they now have a strong representation in congress... they will used our taxpayer money against us.:nailbiting: :headscratch:

nitrox920
02-04-2007, 05:11
Originally posted by chowchow
Haul ass and move elsewhere. Life is too short to show you are matapang in such a place.

Move...no way.. why should I. My farm and my fishpond gives my family comfort..sila yung contrabida..ako pa mag transfer..I'll stand my ground and defend it over their dead bodies.... its not being matapang or anything. its just exercising my right. If they invade I will just used force to repel them. they dont have any right to be in the property...especially when they are armed.

Article 429 of the new civil code states
"the owner has the right to use such force to repel or prevent physical invastion or usurpation of his property"

Allegra
02-04-2007, 05:20
Originally posted by nitrox920
Allegra...It's better to have a rifle or a shotgun maski isa, especially when one is in the countryside. I prefer the shotgun cause it doesnt look inviting compared to an AK or a 16.

I do live in the country ( Manila sucks :))
had lots of shotguns dati,but unlike a pistol I dont feel as confident handling a shotgun.Sold them all

nitrox920
02-04-2007, 05:27
Originally posted by darwin25
Just me bro, I would not give a gun even to my most trusted employee unless I can pay him enough to actually ask him to risk his life protecting me, my family or my property. Alam mo naman siguro ang nangyayari kapag nagkakagipitan na sa pera ang tao. Walang kagamitan at pakikipag-relasyong sagrado.

Giving them guns is like giving them protection for their own families.they feel the same way that i feel, self-preservation is a basic human need. It cuts across class, status and gender. Guns are just tools. I cannot be there all the time for them just like the police cannot be there all the time for us. If an armed group enters their house in the middle of the night and asked them to give them money and food.. they cant say no.. because they are unarmed. but if the sorrounding community are armed they can repel this thugs.

I was even surprise to find that some of my people are already armed with paltik and sumpak guns. I want them to be responsible gun holder and give them proper tools, papers and training for it. I'll choose them properly and assigned guns to my people from overseer, assistance, timekeeper, (tractor& truck) drivers, bodegero , bantay and etc..For me I just have to trust these people.I trust them to handle my equipment. I believe i can trust with a gun.

On CVO/CAFGUs camps

i am not really infavor of CAFGUs/CVO to be armed inside the barracks only or on patrol. For the past few years, the NPA's has raided detachment by detachment and hauled highpowered firearms by the dozen in a single attacked and were very successful. For me. It would be a good strategy to let these volunteers bring their firearms/ammo home with them.
:2gun:

nitrox920
02-04-2007, 06:38
Allegra,

this was an actual incident that happened in the late 80's to a good friend when he stayed in his farm house one night.

A group of armed men tried to enter his house in his farm.(NPA,bandits,local thugs,,etc ???)buti lang his guard stood his ground. shot it out with the group with his shotgun. there was an exchange of gun fire for a few hours and then the group retreated.

After the whole incident... he told me that when the shooting started ,as he grabbed his pistol to help the guard he decided to put it back in the holster because he felt he was no match against the group that had rifles. he didnt have the confident to fight it out with only a pistol.

After a few months...he and his family left for the states. After a few years. his back in the good old philippines.

for me a pistol has a limited range but when one takes hold of a rifle/shotgun everything changes in your favor by 80%.

one uses his pistol inorder to reach for his rifle

Allegra
02-04-2007, 07:02
Originally posted by nitrox920
Allegra,

this was an actual incident that happened in the late 80's to a good friend when he stayed in his farm house one night.

A group of armed men tried to enter his house in his farm.(NPA,bandits,local thugs,,etc ???)buti lang His guard stood his ground and shoot it out with the group with his shotgun. there was an exchange of gun fire for a few minutes and then the group retreated.

After the whole incident... he told me that when the shooting started as he grabbed his pistol to help the guard he decided to put it back in the holster because he felt he was no match against the group that were armed with long arms.he said didnt have the confidence to fight it out with only a pistol.

After a few months...he and his family left for the states. After a few years. his back in the good old philippines.

for me a pistol has a limited range but when one takes hold of a rifle/shotgun everything changes in your favor by 80%.

one uses his pistol inorder to reach for his rifle


I'm not saying a pistol is better than a shotgun or rifle
But I havent practiced any SG/rifle presentations or know how fast I can get that stock welded to my cheek, I dont even know how to clear an SG jam whereas , I'm efin amazing with a pistol hehehe

seriously , I havent practiced enough w/ long arms baka ma agaw pa sakin at maihataw pa sa ulo ko

atmarcella
02-04-2007, 08:26
ang pistol more than enough na sa urban setting....

pero sa bundok....medyo kulang....unless...desert eagle .50AE:thumbsup:

chowchow
02-04-2007, 12:21
Talaga kung nasa Farm ka, dapat meyron kang rifles and shotguns. These thugs dont give a dang as long they get their mission accomplished. All they want is you dead and them carting off the loot. End of story. Thats right, if you are a known target be prepared bec they can swoop down like lighting in the night when it is least expected. Mas maganda kung may M79 grenade launcher ka.

isuzu
02-04-2007, 14:16
[ These "warrior" people still go around the city freely in restaurants,bars,hotel etc...like normal people. no bodyguards[/B]

They still have their guards, although discreetly.

I read in the news sometime last month that Betty Montinola had another tractor burned by the rebels (and to come to think of it, she or her husband is a distant cousin of Luis Jalandoni). That is a total of four tractors if my count is accurate. She never retaliates; she just turns the other cheek and moves on. The negative impact goes back to the rebels tenfold.

chowchow
02-04-2007, 16:24
Why the tractor, is that bec these could equipment can clear roads and pave for easy way for govt troops to hunt them down?

Allegra
02-04-2007, 18:24
Originally posted by chowchow
Talaga kung nasa Farm ka, dapat meyron kang rifles and shotguns. These thugs dont give a dang as long they get their mission accomplished. All they want is you dead and them carting off the loot. End of story. Thats right, if you are a known target be prepared bec they can swoop down like lighting in the night when it is least expected. Mas maganda kung may M79 grenade launcher ka.


in farms all my life , and everybody keeps telling me I need a shotgun , rifle. Hevent experienced anything that would recquire me to get one

When insurgents were asking my cousin if we had any firearms pag dumadating sa Bataan. Ang ginawa ko , hindi nako pumunta dun ng may dalang baril , if I go at all hehe laki laki ng luzon e

nitrox920
02-05-2007, 08:59
Originally posted by chowchow
Talaga kung nasa Farm ka, dapat meyron kang rifles and shotguns. These thugs dont give a dang as long they get their mission accomplished. All they want is you dead and them carting off the loot. End of story. Thats right, if you are a known target be prepared bec they can swoop down like lighting in the night when it is least expected. Mas maganda kung may M79 grenade launcher ka.

Just an observation... these bad guys dont even care about time anymore. some home invasion or attacks happens at sunrise mga 6-8 AM even if your a high or low profile target they dont really care.

Nowadays, most of the marginalized farmers are arming themselves not with handguns or rifles, they find it to expensive, but with HANDGRENADES. its cheaper by 80% and more intimidating for the bad guys.

nitrox920
02-05-2007, 09:06
I guess betty montinola can afford to just turned the other cheeks. but if that thing happens which i hope not...I'm going to seek them out one by one and ***:psycho:**** them all.:deadhorse:


As the DALAI LAMA (nobel peace prize) would say on
mAY 15,2001

" IF SOMEONE HAS A GUN AND IS TRYING TO KILL YOU, IT WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE TO SHOOT BACK WITH YOUR OWN GUN"

chowchow
02-05-2007, 09:59
A Vietnam Vet who served many tours in Nam prefers the M79. Makes for a loud thumb and boom.

isuzu
02-05-2007, 20:04
Originally posted by chowchow
Why the tractor, is that bec these could equipment can clear roads and pave for easy way for govt troops to hunt them down?

To delay the clearing of the canefields, planting and cultivation of sugarcane. A brand new tractor now cost around P3.0 million. Bigger ones, upwards to about P5.0 million or more.

When work in the farm is delayed, farm workers won't get their maximum salaries for the week. That's why bumabalik din sa mga rebelde and ginagawa nila.

The ones who get affected the most are the farm workers who live on a weekly salary.

nitrox920
02-06-2007, 05:53
whats the ideal shotgun ammo to have in a Philippine countryside setting? In the house and on the field

atmarcella
02-06-2007, 07:43
00 buck:thumbsup:

isuzu
02-06-2007, 18:11
#4 Buck. Lower recoil, faster follow-up shots. I think it's the USMC's standard shotgun load.

atmarcella
02-06-2007, 19:02
slight OT,

sir accurate info ba to:


Size Nominal diameter Pellets/oz
000 ("triple-ought") .36" (9.1 mm) 6
00 ("double-ought") .33" (8.4 mm) 8
0 ("one-ought") .32" (8.1 mm) 9
1 .30" (7.6 mm) 10
2 .27" (6.9 mm) 15
3 .25" (6.4 mm) 18
4 .24" (6 mm) 21

yung isang pellet pala ng 00 parang isang 9mm na:thumbsup:

toxic
02-07-2007, 02:19
Originally posted by atmarcella
slight OT,

sir accurate info ba to:


Size Nominal diameter Pellets/oz
000 ("triple-ought") .36" (9.1 mm) 6
00 ("double-ought") .33" (8.4 mm) 8
0 ("one-ought") .32" (8.1 mm) 9
1 .30" (7.6 mm) 10
2 .27" (6.9 mm) 15
3 .25" (6.4 mm) 18
4 .24" (6 mm) 21

yung isang pellet pala ng 00 parang isang 9mm na:thumbsup:

mas malapit Sir sa 000 = 9.1 mm sa data mo.
9 mm = .355 inches (9mm parabellum or 9.02mm to be exact)

atmarcella
02-07-2007, 02:49
has anybody here experienced shooting 000?

cebuboy
02-07-2007, 02:52
yup, in 3" magnun flavor by winchester:supergrin:

atmarcella
02-07-2007, 02:56
sir kamusta recoil? manageable?

cebuboy
02-07-2007, 03:10
sir, its ok as long as you mount the shotgun properly :) i think it's kinda overkill, but hey its fun:)

enting
02-08-2007, 07:26
mix also slugs 18.43 mm 2 3/4 @ 1,600 fps & 3" @ 1,760 fps for long distance, tried some just wonder why shotguns not considered under High powered category. Lagyan mo nang claymore & mines hehe.

nitrox920
02-14-2007, 07:18
just came from twin pine and saw their new shotgun shell in black. looks really cool just like their 3"magnum they sell.
Will try it out this weekend in the farm.

jerrytrini
02-14-2007, 19:57
I still have the Second Chance Body Armor for sale. Brand New still in plastic. It is now in Manila.

atmarcella
02-14-2007, 21:12
sir,

care to share the price??? tnx;)

jerrytrini
02-15-2007, 08:53
I am selling it for $400.00

gen1
02-16-2007, 20:06
Originally posted by nitrox920
Stay duration 3 night nights of the week with my wife, 4yrs old kid and his yaya. converted the bathroom into a panic room. sealed it with concrete.

I would think twice with having the wife and kid stay with me in a hostile environment. If it comes to blows having someone you care for deeply with you can limit your tactical options. Can't you just have them stay in bacolod?

I've been around the country's hotspots and the rpa's are by far the least aggressive of the armed groups. I've stayed overnight at the brgy where their training base is. some even say that they are govt agents.

to survive until morning the panic room must have at least 2 ft of reinforced concrete walls and ceilings (go for high strenght 4-5000psi). In the inside plate the room with 1"thk steel plate welded at the seams. (I've seen this in US embassy buildings which I worked on. Was a friggin hassle to bore through to place pipes in it)

I would place the panic room underground. this means that your assailants cannot assault it with rocket propelled armaments. It must have double doors with an intervening tunnel. It will take a very brave assailant to enter a dark tunnel to get to you.

firearm? I'd go with a scoped M14 for defending the bungalow, an fssg G17 as back-up and a 12 gage inside the panic room. cheap but effective and readily available. and a shotgun blast in a small diameter tunnel is devastating.

best defense option? kaibiganin mo na lang sila. they will not be able to operate in a brgy if they are not welcome in it. if the brgy where your farm is located is rebel influenced chances are most of your workers are sympathizers.