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jmshady
02-03-2007, 10:55
I figured you can have your own thread to sort this out.

Waiting your responses...
G8rzfan wrotw:
Stengun posted:
I guarded the old Titan II missile silos. They are all decomissioned now. They were located north of the Little Rock AFB in the area kinda between Jacksonville, west to Greebriar, north to Heber Springs, east to Cabot and back south to Jacksonville. They are all within a hundred miles of where I live today. Heck, back in the late '90s they were for sale.

It wasn't at my discretion. There are always three people in the control room of an ICBM silo, the launch control officer, his assistant, and a security police (SP). The MIMS crew took care of preparing the missle for launch. If the order to launch was given by the President and for whatever reason, either member of the launch team refused to turn the key and push the button, since it takes two people to launch the missle, it was the duty of the ARMED SP to assist in launching the missle. It wasn't my call, just my duty.

I didn't need to know launch procedures. I just needed to be willing to force the officer(s) to "Push the button" The button was a keyed push button. the keys were locked in a safe and only the officers had access to the keys.

Silo officer was what I was calling the launch control officer. He was usually the ranking officer in the silo, hench, silo officer.

If you have any other questions, ask away. It's been 24 years since I've been in a silo, but ask away, and I'll anwser what I can remember.

Stengun,
I don’t have questions, I have a word of advice…if you are going to post lies; at least do your homework.

Other than Titan IIs being at Little Rock, the rest of your post is pure crapola.

Titan silos were manned by a 4 person missile ops crew:
Missile Combat Crew Commander (officer)
Deputy Missile Combat Crew Commander (officer)
Missile Systems Analyst Technician (enlisted)
Missile Facilities Technician (enlisted)

We were armed with issue .38s. As for Security Forces…there were ART Teams that were responsible for topside security. Each ART Team was responsible for 3 sites, called a sector. Each sector had an SP Supervisor. Security personnel did not enter the control center with loaded weapons, period. They were cleared and secured prior to coming down.

MMS personnel were strictly maintenance. They were dispatched to sites on an as needed basis to perform missile or facility maintenance and were not part of missile launch prep.

There was no button to push per se, it was a synchronized key turn. You could not be part of the launch process unless you were very familiar with launch, copy and decode, and message verification procedures.

The common parlance for the crew officers was “commander” and “dep”, unless someone other than the crew was present. During those times we addressed each other by rank/last name.
I know these things because I was a missile systems analyst tech on Titan IIs. I was stationed at Little Rock AFB, AR from Feb 82 until the phase out of the weapon system in Aug 87. I was initially assigned to the 373rd Strategic Missile Squadron, 308th Strategic Missile Wing. I have no problem posting scans of my APRs or DD214 as verification. I even have some pics, if you like.

It took a lot to get through our tech school and even more to maintain our qualification in the field. I cannot sit by and let someone spread lies and half-truths about how we conducted business. We were a well trained, disciplined, and professional group who held up our end of the strategic triad.

Actually, I do have a few questions for you…
Have you ever actually been in a Titan missile silo?
To which complex were you assigned?
How many blast doors did you have to pass through to get to the control center?
What level is the control center on?
What is the TPS-39 system? ( a Titan missile security guy would know)
Can you give me the names of any of the “silo officers”?

You have been called out. I await your response. I hope you step forward and admit your error...and just be content and honest with what you really did in the military. That is where respect lies.


Jmshady Wrote:
quote:Originally posted by jmshady
Where did you do sniper school at?



http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/sniper.html

quote: Donaldson and seven men graduated April 14 from the first countersniper program for Air Guard security force personnel conducted by the 8-year-old National Guard Sniper School. It was the first program of its kind for any U.S. Air Force component. "The Air Force has been the only ground combat force in this country that does not employ snipers and countersnipers," said Army Guard Sgt. 1st Class Ben Dolan, a former Marine sniper and the school's chief instructor.



This article is from April 14, 2001.

Six years old. FIRST PROGRAM OF IT'S KIND FOR ANY US AIR FORCE COMPONENT

"THE AIRFORCE HAS BEEN THE ONLY GROUND COMBAT FORCE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT DOES NOT EMPLOY SNIPERS AND COUNTERSNIPERS"

The National Guard sniper was 8 years old at that time....ummmm.....14 years old now and you got out something like 20 errr no 24 years ago.

To top that off the school is in Arkansas so you might have been able to fool people with that. Before that the school was available in only two places that I KNOW YOU WOULD HAVE NEVER been to. there are not enough seats to the school either place. To top that off this was the first time AF personnel were trained in this.

That and the post before this is not looking to good for you hero... ohh wait...

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/91W/inteenethero.jpg

Hate it when that happens......

Be a man and be honest about your service and I'll put you back above the dog crap on my shoe.

G8rzfan
02-05-2007, 08:32
I just received notice of the 308th Strategic Missile Wing's 20th Anniversary Reunion at Little Rock AFB, 13-16 Sep 07...can I expect to see you there?

stengun
02-06-2007, 10:07
Howdy jmshady,

Originally posted by jmshady
I figured you can have your own thread to sort this out.

Waiting your responses...

The MMS peeps were actually MIMS. No such thing as MMS. Gee, I was there for about 12 weeks and I know that.

If I remember correctly, there were 3 blast doors from the point where you enter the showers back to the control room/berthing area, and I think there were like 6 total, but it's been over 20 years.

An SP giving up his gun, that only happens in the armory. Oh, it wasn't a .38, it was a Smith & Wesson Model 15 Combat Master .38 Special blued steel w/ a 4" barrel and adjustible sights and loaded w/ 6 130gr FMJ bullets plus two dump pouches w/ 6 bullets each. Plus a Colt M-16A1 w/ 1-30rd mag and 3-30rd mags in a mag pouch.

I was never assigned to a complex. I was on OJT w/ the Ar Air National Guard's 189th Air Refueling Group. I stayed in the Sp barracks w/ all the regular duty SP's and did the duty rotations w/ them. So, I wasn't part of the 308th or the two Squadrons that ther stationed there. But I did go t0 3-3, 3-4, 3-5.

If I remember correctly, the control room was located at the base of the missile so you could see if the missile ignited ok. I always thought that it would have been a better idea to put it somewhere else like maybe between the berthing area and the equipment space. I don't know, just my thoughts on the matter.

PTS-39? I guess you are talking about the motion detector system.

I don't remember any of the officers. As an enlisted, they aren't that important. The guys that I knew were SPs and they were Kirkbride, Flynn and Rogers, everybody called him "Buck Rogers".


The AR Air and Army National Guards' markmanship and small arms training has always been held at Camp Robinson. You are talking about the new school that they have were they train regular army and even SF troops go there. The facilities have been there for a very lon time. They have a very nice setup that includes a 1,000yd range. Same place, just a new name.


Dang, this brings back alotta stuff that I haven't thought about in many, many years.

Paul

stengun
02-06-2007, 10:11
Howdy G8rzfan,

Originally posted by G8rzfan
I just received notice of the 308th Strategic Missile Wing's 20th Anniversary Reunion at Little Rock AFB, 13-16 Sep 07...can I expect to see you there?

Yea, I saw where they are having a reunion. Since I wasn't part of the 308th, I dought I will be there.

Paul

stengun
02-06-2007, 10:43
Howdy jmshady,

OOOOOOHHHHH, I missed this one. You want to post a scan of your AFR and DD214 on the "net"!?

Now, who's trying to blow smoke up who's behind now.

Gee, we both know that anyone with a scanner/ copier/printer, a PC and a downloadable program, can take any form, scan it, edit it and reprint it or post it on the "'Net". Heck, I do it with reloading forms all the time.

Gee, you had me going for a little bit. I thought that you might know a little about silos until I read your part about posting a scam. I mean a scam. Dang it, a scan.

Paul

jmshady
02-06-2007, 14:01
So far you have not touched my post. You are replying to G8rzfan not me.

I still want to know where you did Sniper/Counter Sniper in the 80's at....

Also I have seen people modify documents like that and you can spot them. The font on a DD-214 is pretty hard to duplicate.

G8rzfan
02-07-2007, 13:53
Stengun,
This is G8rzfan…I am the missile crew guy who disputed your missile duty time. Jmshady is the one who questioned all of your sniper/counter-sniper training.

Let’s get back to why I originally responded to your posts…you said you were part of a 3-man team responsible for launching the Titan IIs at Little Rock AFB in the 80s. I more or less politely called you a liar.

I do think you were an ANG Cop and you may even have toured a site as a visitor. But, you and I both know that you had nothing to do with the security and control of the missile silos. All I want is for you to recant the garbage you posted about your supposed Titan II time. Or, do you still contend that you were part of some 3-man team responsible for launching a Titan missile?

Do you still want everyone to believe that you passed some psych test that allowed you to kill a silo officer and assume his launch control responsibilities if he fails to “push the button”?

On to your latest posts…these are peripheral to what started all of this (i.e., the fact that you lied about being part of a missile ops crew) but, since asked the questions I will address your answers.

I’ll give you ½ a point for this one…you do pass through 3 blast doors to get to the control center. However, there are only 4 blast doors (2 sets interconnected) total and you don’t pass through or near any shower to get to the control center.

For the curious onlookers amused by this weird threesome created by Stengun, me, and Jmshady allow me to orient you as to the basic layout of a Titan missile site. Picture a capital “T”; it represents the blast lock area, which is the junction for going anywhere in the complex. You would enter the bottom of the “T” via the topside portal.

If you exit to the top-left of the “T” you would enter the short cableway, which leads to level 2 of the control center and is also where the ops crew is the majority of the time. In the control center you may go upstairs to level 1, which was the sleeping quarters, restroom, and kitchen. You can also go downstairs to level 3, which had comm equipment, battery back up, and some secondary system equipment.

Now if you exit to top-right of the “T” you would enter the long cableway, which takes you to level 2 of the actual silo and to one of the entrances to the launch duct. The silo area comprises 9 levels, each housing various equipment systems required to maintain mission readiness. There is no place “to see if the missile ignited ok”.

Now on to the other answers…ART Teams (SPs) were required to clear their M-16s prior to coming downstairs and entering the control center. Once in the control center the weapons were placed in a rack. ART Teams did not carry side arms, only the M-16 and 180 rounds of ammo. The only people armed in the control center were crew members. We did qualify annually with the venerable 4” Smith you mentioned, but we carried Smith .38 Special snubbies at the site.

The 314 SPS handled LE and security duties on the base. The 308th Strategic Missile Wing was a world unto itself…to include having our own Cop Squadron, the 308 SPS. The 308th Cops only dealt with missile and nuclear storage facility security. They didn’t do gate guard, base patrol, or flight line entry control duties.

I will also give you 1 point for correctly Google-ing TPS-39. Bonus question: How many alarm areas were there?

I don't remember any of the officers. As an enlisted, they aren't that important. This is a funny statement considering that officers made up half of the launch crew. And unlike most squadrons in the AF the missile ops squadrons were about half officers.

As for the rest of your killer elite skill set, I’ll let Jmshady address those incongruities in your supposed training.

For the home audience, if you have some free time I encourage you to look at my and Stengun’s posts here and in the thread titled, “Vets, tell us about your service”, then you decide who is full of poopie.

I pulled 500+ alerts at Little Rock and am very proud of my time on crew. I find this guy’s posts about missile ops to be insulting and find it very difficult to just let it go.

BTW, I would never falsify my DD214 just to upend some internet agitator...it would be criminal as well as stupid.

jmshady
02-11-2007, 10:59
Still waiting for a reply....

The longer it takes the more probable you are out doing research to support your bogus claims.

I have said it before, just be a man and be honest about your service to this country.

stengun
02-13-2007, 22:04
Howdy jmshady,

Originally posted by jmshady
Still waiting for a reply....

The longer it takes the more probable you are out doing research to support your bogus claims.

I have said it before, just be a man and be honest about your service to this country.

Here I is. I'm a busy person. I left for work this morning at 7am and I got home at 9:21pm. Busy, Busy, Busy. That's me.

Yea, I took your advice and did a little research on Titan II missle silos and I discovered that EVERYTHING that you posted can from a couple of different web sites.

You asked several questions and I answered them to the best of my memory. Like I posted before, I was there for a very short time, apporx. 12 weeks. I did this when I was 18 years old and Now I'm almost 43, so it was a very long time ago.

Like I said, everything that you posted came from a couple of web sites.

You asked how many blast doors there were, and I believe that I answered it correctly. You avoided this question/answer.

You asked what a TPS-39 was and I answered this question correctly. You also avoided this question/answer.

You asked where I took sniper/countersniper training and I answered this question too. You also avoided this question/answer.

You asked which sites I had been to and I answered this question too. You also avoided this question/answer.

You also asked where the control room was located, and I answer this question correctly too. You also avoided this question/answer.

Gee, I wonder why you keep avoiding all the answer I give you to the question that you ask. I know why and you know why, so, why don't you explain it to all the curious onlookers. I'm sure they would like to know why you've avoided all of these answers.

Air Force, Air National Guard, and Navy DD214's were all typed up on standard IBM Selectic typewriters. They were the very same typewriters that they had when I was in High School, plus there is one at my local library. I try to take my 11 year old to the library every week and I have used the typewriter several times while I was at the library. So, I just checked my DD214's (I have two of them), AFR's and Navy PQS/training record and they all have the VERY SAME FONT!

So, jmshady, this means one thing. You are a liar and you are trying to blow smoke up someone's behind.

Ok, I caught you in one outright lie, so, what else have you lied about?

Have you every even been to the LRAFB? Instead of posting things that you can get off of a web site, how about posting something that you can't find on a web site. Heck, as far as I can tell, you are a pimp-faced 13yo kid with a 'puter. The same for G8rzfan. As far as I 'm concerned or care for that matter, your both the same person.

Since we know you are a liar, here's back at you buddy.

G8rzfan,

After doing a little research for tech. names, it's called the BLAST LOCK . That's the room where there is the decom shower. The other two blast doors that I was counting are in the access portal. You might not count them as blast doors, but that's what my +20yo memories recalled.

Same thing I said to jmshady. Everything that you have posted can be found on a couple of web site.

You said I googled TSP-39 to find out what it was. Here's what google has listed for tsp-39......http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tsp-39&btnG=Google+Search (http://)

There's not any mention of anything about Titan II missle silo security systems.

You said that my answer to the question was correct but to cover yourself you had to lie and say that I used google to find the answer.

Ok, so you are a liar too, like jmshady. So, what else have you liar about?

Oh, you posted about the 308th having a reunion. I saw it posted at the LRAFB. I also saw it posted on one of the Titan II sites. I guess that's were you saw it to.

ANG cop? Nope. Security police. There is a difference between the SP's and the LE's.

No one that had ever been in the Air Force and had worked with either the SP's or LE's would ever confuss the two. No one would ever call a SP a cop.

NO ONE WHO HAD EVER BEEN IN THE AIR FORCE AND WORKED AROUND SP's WOULD CALL THEM A COP!!!!! NEVER. PERIOD.

And you just called a SP a cop. What up with that?

It reminds me of a couple of years ago when a buddy of mine wanted me to meet this guy that was a retired Navy Seal. He had been in the Navy for 24 years and had retired as a LT. Commander. I meet him at a local gym to workout. I had a gear bag w/ me and asked where I could put it while we worked out. He said to put it on the floor next to the wall. I was like "Floor and wall?". Well after spending 3 years in the Navy, I realize that there isn't any floors, they are DECKS . Walls are bulkheads. Ceilings are overheads. If you have evr been in the Navy, you can tell if someone else has been in the Navy too. Especially someone whom claims to have been in for 24 years. They would NEVER call a deck a floor. The same way that anybody who was in the Air Force and worked around SP's everyday would NEVER call them a cop!

Something doesn't add up and smells mighty fishy.

Paul

cocked@locked
02-13-2007, 22:17
:popcorn:

jmshady
02-15-2007, 08:47
Originally posted by stengun
Howdy jmshady,



Here I is. I'm a busy person. I left for work this morning at 7am and I got home at 9:21pm. Busy, Busy, Busy. That's me.

Yea, I took your advice and did a little research on Titan II missle silos and I discovered that EVERYTHING that you posted can from a couple of different web sites.

You asked several questions and I answered them to the best of my memory. Like I posted before, I was there for a very short time, apporx. 12 weeks. I did this when I was 18 years old and Now I'm almost 43, so it was a very long time ago.

Like I said, everything that you posted came from a couple of web sites.

You asked how many blast doors there were, and I believe that I answered it correctly. You avoided this question/answer.

You asked what a TPS-39 was and I answered this question correctly. You also avoided this question/answer.

You asked where I took sniper/countersniper training and I answered this question too. You also avoided this question/answer.

You asked which sites I had been to and I answered this question too. You also avoided this question/answer.

You also asked where the control room was located, and I answer this question correctly too. You also avoided this question/answer.

Gee, I wonder why you keep avoiding all the answer I give you to the question that you ask. I know why and you know why, so, why don't you explain it to all the curious onlookers. I'm sure they would like to know why you've avoided all of these answers.

Air Force, Air National Guard, and Navy DD214's were all typed up on standard IBM Selectic typewriters. They were the very same typewriters that they had when I was in High School, plus there is one at my local library. I try to take my 11 year old to the library every week and I have used the typewriter several times while I was at the library. So, I just checked my DD214's (I have two of them), AFR's and Navy PQS/training record and they all have the VERY SAME FONT!

So, jmshady, this means one thing. You are a liar and you are trying to blow smoke up someone's behind.

Ok, I caught you in one outright lie, so, what else have you lied about?

Have you every even been to the LRAFB? Instead of posting things that you can get off of a web site, how about posting something that you can't find on a web site. Heck, as far as I can tell, you are a pimp-faced 13yo kid with a 'puter. The same for G8rzfan. As far as I 'm concerned or care for that matter, your both the same person.

Since we know you are a liar, here's back at you buddy.

G8rzfan,

After doing a little research for tech. names, it's called the BLAST LOCK . That's the room where there is the decom shower. The other two blast doors that I was counting are in the access portal. You might not count them as blast doors, but that's what my +20yo memories recalled.

Same thing I said to jmshady. Everything that you have posted can be found on a couple of web site.

You said I googled TSP-39 to find out what it was. Here's what google has listed for tsp-39......http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tsp-39&btnG=Google+Search (http://)

There's not any mention of anything about Titan II missle silo security systems.

You said that my answer to the question was correct but to cover yourself you had to lie and say that I used google to find the answer.

Ok, so you are a liar too, like jmshady. So, what else have you liar about?

Oh, you posted about the 308th having a reunion. I saw it posted at the LRAFB. I also saw it posted on one of the Titan II sites. I guess that's were you saw it to.

ANG cop? Nope. Security police. There is a difference between the SP's and the LE's.

No one that had ever been in the Air Force and had worked with either the SP's or LE's would ever confuss the two. No one would ever call a SP a cop.

NO ONE WHO HAD EVER BEEN IN THE AIR FORCE AND WORKED AROUND SP's WOULD CALL THEM A COP!!!!! NEVER. PERIOD.

And you just called a SP a cop. What up with that?

It reminds me of a couple of years ago when a buddy of mine wanted me to meet this guy that was a retired Navy Seal. He had been in the Navy for 24 years and had retired as a LT. Commander. I meet him at a local gym to workout. I had a gear bag w/ me and asked where I could put it while we worked out. He said to put it on the floor next to the wall. I was like "Floor and wall?". Well after spending 3 years in the Navy, I realize that there isn't any floors, they are DECKS . Walls are bulkheads. Ceilings are overheads. If you have evr been in the Navy, you can tell if someone else has been in the Navy too. Especially someone whom claims to have been in for 24 years. They would NEVER call a deck a floor. The same way that anybody who was in the Air Force and worked around SP's everyday would NEVER call them a cop!

Something doesn't add up and smells mighty fishy.

Paul

OK I DO NOT GIVE A POOP ABOUT TITAN MISSILES!!!

THAT SAID WHERE DID YOU DO SNIPER TRAINING???

ONE MORE CHANCE BEFORE THIS IS POSTED ON EVERY MILITARY BOARD I KNOW OF!!!!

I have never been in the Air Force just the Army as a Medic. I did an internet search concerning Air National Guard/Air Force Snipers and Counter Snipers and blew your story out of the water. That is all I am asking about since I know a little about combat arms and I do not no crap about missile systems and never claimed to. I have to be civil on this board come join me on armyparatrooper.org and see how civil we are to liars and posers. Just post an intro with your service history.

G8rzfan
02-16-2007, 23:15
Stengun,
You are a fraud and a lying piece of crap. Being a cop at Little Rock is a close to a missile as you ever got. As for being security and launch crew back up…well that’s garbage you just made up or saw on TV.

You are right, many things I posted can be found on the internet, but so has everything you have posted….except for the crapola you made up.

Only 4 blast doors, Pal…7 tons of layered concrete and steel. The two access portal doors you sort of remember do not even remotely resemble a blast door. One is a standard metal exterior door and the other is a steel cage door…all electrically controlled from the commander’s console in the control center.

Here are a couple of questions that you won’t find on the internet…

You claim to have been at complex 3-4…what is the site’s nick name?

You claim to have been at complex 3-5…in order to do that you have to be ACP Crew qualified, what is that?

For curious on lookers, please email or PM me and I’ll give you the answers.

BTW, I scanned and uploaded some photos, APRs, LOAs, and certificates today that show I was at Little Rock and a Titan II Missile Combat Crew Member. Do you have anything that backs up your claims?

You can view the scans here.
http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u283/G8rzfan/

As for the reunion, I received an invitation to the reunion from William Leslie of Wright-Patterson AFB. He is on the reunion committee and emailed those of us in the 308 SMW Registry.

You may have been a cop, but you were no crew member. This is my only contention and always has been. I don’t know squat about sniper training, those were Jmshady’s questions for you.

I really want to put you on ignore, but I can't wait to see what you post next. Let the back pedaling begin.

For everyone playing at home, please post who you think the poser is here. Also, watch your shoes, this guy’s dropping manure everywhere.
:supergrin:

stengun
02-22-2007, 16:35
Howdy G8rzfan,

Originally posted by G8rzfan
Stengun,


You are right, many things I posted can be found on the internet, but so has everything you have posted….except for the crapola you made up.



You claim to have been at complex 3-4…what is the site’s nick name?



:supergrin:

The Ghost Silo.

Paul

P.S. Gee, how did I know that?

stengun
02-22-2007, 17:22
Howdy jmshady,

Originally posted by jmshady
OK I DO NOT GIVE A POOP ABOUT TITAN MISSILES!!!

THAT SAID WHERE DID YOU DO SNIPER TRAINING???

ONE MORE CHANCE BEFORE THIS IS POSTED ON EVERY MILITARY BOARD I KNOW OF!!!!

I have never been in the Air Force just the Army as a Medic. I did an internet search concerning Air National Guard/Air Force Snipers and Counter Snipers and blew your story out of the water. That is all I am asking about since I know a little about combat arms and I do not no crap about missile systems and never claimed to. I have to be civil on this board come join me on armyparatrooper.org and see how civil we are to liars and posers. Just post an intro with your service history.

Gee, for someone that's never been in the AF or the air guard, you sure are an ex-spuirt on what the AF and the air guard does.

I guess you need to google a little more. Have you ever heard of ABGD or ABD?

I guess not. Most of the Guard's marksmanship training is at Camp Robinson in beutiful, crime free No. Little Rock, AR. It's just ab short drive from the Little Rock AFB. That's were I did most of my weapons training while I was in the air guard.

They got an excellent course there and they hold SWAT competition there ever year.

If any of your army buddies have had DM training it was probably at Robinson.

Paul

P.S. Post away. This is the only forum that I'm an active member of.

jmshady
02-22-2007, 21:20
Originally posted by stengun
Howdy jmshady,



Gee, for someone that's never been in the AF or the air guard, you sure are an ex-spuirt on what the AF and the air guard does.

I guess you need to google a little more. Have you ever heard of ABGD or ABD?

I guess not. Most of the Guard's marksmanship training is at Camp Robinson in beutiful, crime free No. Little Rock, AR. It's just ab short drive from the Little Rock AFB. That's were I did most of my weapons training while I was in the air guard.

They got an excellent course there and they hold SWAT competition there ever year.

If any of your army buddies have had DM training it was probably at Robinson.

Paul

P.S. Post away. This is the only forum that I'm an active member of.

Marksmanship training is a far cry from Sniper/Counter Sniper you lying sack of ****.

G8rzfan
02-23-2007, 09:58
Stengun,
It's Ghost Site...SITE. While continuing your charade at least work on getting your terminology correct. The silo is the tube the missile actually sat in. It was a missile site or complex.

As for getting the ghost part right...you do live in Arkansas and may have heard about the 50+ guys that died in a flash fire during the site's construction.

You skipped the ACP Crew question though. Better find an old crew member to answer that one. This trivial pursuit game has been amusing, but it has taken us off topic.

Do you still believe you were part of some 3-man launch crew? What was your crew's designation?

Do you have something...anything to back up your story? Please share. A performance report, a training certificate, a note from your Mom...anything.

I took the time to upload a few items (in my previous post) that showed the where I was assigned, what I did, and the training I received. Please do the same.

stengun
02-24-2007, 20:47
Howdy G8,

Originally posted by G8rzfan
Stengun,
It's Ghost Site...SITE. While continuing your charade at least work on getting your terminology correct. The silo is the tube the missile actually sat in. It was a missile site or complex.



Boy, you sure are splittin' hairs.

I've got everyone of your question right so far, more or less.



Ok, time to put up or shut up.

Prove I wasn't at those silos. And Prove that I'm lying about everything.

I called it the Ghost Silo from my +20 year old memory and you want to make a big deal about it being nicknamed the Ghost Site. I clearly remember it being called both.

Since you said I googled everything, show a website where Site 373-4 is called The Ghost Site.

Yep, put up or shut up.

Almost everything that you've posted can be found on the 'Net. I didn't even bother to look at the stuff that you downloaded 'cause everything can be faked w/ a PC. Remember all the vids of Kerry rubbin' (Dang, I'm pullin a blank) Kerry's VP running mate in '04, butt while on stage at rallies. What about all the vids of Pelosi eye's flashing and glowing red during Pres. Bush's State of the Union speach. Do you think they were real?

http://glocktalk.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=7756351

Like I said, no more blah, blah, blah. PROVE IT. Put up or shut up.

Paul

cocked@locked
02-24-2007, 21:08
damn, you guys still at it! this is the text book definition of a classic pissin match. kinda cool thou, im learning alot about missle silo's and other stuff that i previously knew nothing about, i cant wait to see the outcome,oh ***** ill be right back, out of popcorn.............................................................................ok im back, continue :popcorn:

stengun
02-24-2007, 21:42
Howdy jmshady,

Originally posted by jmshady
Marksmanship training is a far cry from Sniper/Counter Sniper you lying sack of ****.

Not marksmanship training, DM training or I think the Army calls it SDM. Squad Designated Marksman. You know, the guy with the M-21 or maybe a M-24 sniper rifle. I've seen them with both. Mainly the M-21 because the M-24 were just being phased in when I got out, but I remember seeing the 3rd ACR Air Cav's SDM use them at Ft. Bliss/McGregor Range/Meyer Range in 1988.

Since the Air Force did have much of a sniper/DM training, it was done w/ the Army Guard.

Anyway, like I told G8, put up or shut up.

PROVE IT.

Don't post "Well I did a search on google and...." PROVE IT!

Put up or shut up.

Don't post "Well, I work with a guy that was a medic in the Air Force and..."

Heck, I work w/ a guy that was on a sub in the Navy. He was on a sub during the same time that I was in the Navy aboard the USS Nimitz and he doesn't know squat about surface ships. So I guess that an AF medic is an expert on Air Guard ABGD units. Heck, he probably knows all about "Commando Warrior".

Like I said,

PROVE IT!

Put up or shut up.

Paul

stengun
02-24-2007, 22:25
Howdy cocked,

Originally posted by cocked@locked
damn, you guys still at it! this is the text book definition of a classic pissin match. kinda cool thou, im learning alot about missle silo's and other stuff that i previously knew nothing about, i cant wait to see the outcome,oh ***** ill be right back, out of popcorn.............................................................................ok im back, continue :popcorn:

It sure is a classic INTERNET pissin match. I can't believe that I've been caught up in one. No dought G8 has been around Titan II sites before, but jmshady is just a "Keyboard Commando" .

Plus I got mixed up on who was posting what. I thought they were both Titan II guys.


I guess that's what happens when my PSTD, ADD, meds, Bud lite, too much work and no sleep all mix toghether.
:rofl:

If I had more time I'ld get some beer and popcorn and enjoy the show.

Instead this has turned into :deadhorse: .

Anyway, I'm just going to wait for them to prove what they having been saying about me.

The really sad part is that both will ask a question and I'll answer it, then they will lie about it to try to support their statements.

I spent 3 years, 11 months and so many days in the Air Guard and 2years, 11 months and so many days in the Navy. As a result of that, I have a bad left knee and a really bad right knee that hurts EVERYDAY , and I'm almost deaf in my let ear, and have lost 40% of the hearing in my right ear. I also got to travel to over 30 states, 23 countries and 5 of the 7 continents. Plus I also receive a VA check every month and on somedays I hurt so bad that it's not worth it. I am VERY proud of my military service. Anytime anybody meets me for the first time I let them know that I am a HARDCORE GUNNUT and a disabled veteran.

Then someone starts a thread on the vet's forum to post your service, so I do. Then I have a couple of jackass buttwipes , w/ one of them being a keyboard commado, try to tell me that I didn't do the stuff that I've done.

My wife has gotten a laugh out of this thread. We've known each other for ever and she was a year behind me school(Since I was in the 5th grade when she moved to the school that I went to.) and her older sister was in same grade w/ me, Class of '82. Since she has known me for over 30 years, and knows alot about my military time, she reads, all this and just shakes her head and laughs.

Paul

G8rzfan
02-25-2007, 22:15
Stengun,
You are right, arguing on the internet is fruitless. I have asked for proof of your outlandish claim that you were part of a 3-man launch crew on Titan IIs. Ultimately, your answer is prove you weren't.

Here is what I propose...
My son graduates tech school in a couple of months and will be stationed at Little Rock AFB. So, I will be attending the 308 SMW Deactivation Reunion in September in conjuction with a visit to my son. I cordially invite you to come to the Reunion with me and tell your story to a couple of hundred true missileers. You and I both know that you will be laughed out of the room. I challenge you to find one person who remembers the launch procedures you stated in the post that started all of this.

I will introduce you to a bunch of people I pulled alert with as proof that I was on crew. You are welcome to do the same...if you can find anyone who even knows who you are.

It is a shame you didn't check out the documents I posted. I would have appreciated a kind word about the creativity and quality of my "forgeries".

For the popcorn & suds crowd...

Per Stengun's request, the link below lists complex 3-4 as the ghost site.
http://www.308smw.com/maps.html

And, the correct answer to the ACP crew question is Alternate Command Post. Actually, complex 3-5 was a regular site...3-8 and 4-1 were ACP sites. They were contingency locations for the Battle Staff. Everyone on crew knew these sites and knew you required extra certification to pull alerts there...more common knowledge for insiders.

Sincerely,
Your favorite Jackass Buttwipe
G8rzfan

Fred Hansen
02-25-2007, 23:01
It's always fun to watch leftists make up funny stories about their fabled military duty. It's no mystery that this one is a fan of Hanoi John Kerry. Must be a "professional" courtesy thing.

LMMFAO :animlol: :animlol: :animlol: :animlol:

PeterJasonMN
02-25-2007, 23:46
Originally posted by Fred Hansen
It's always fun to watch leftists make up funny stories about their fabled military duty. It's no mystery that this one is a fan of Hanoi John Kerry. Must be a "professional" courtesy thing.

LMMFAO :animlol: :animlol: :animlol: :animlol:


I'm confused. Who's calling who out? I saw your name here so I figured there had to be some arguin going on.

FDC
02-26-2007, 00:01
IMO: Not that I have any say in the matter. Let Stengun, JMshady, and G8rzfan hash this out.

If you don't have personal knowledge(including me)STFU. Let the .mil police their own(within the TOS of course:supergrin:). Any others familiar with the topic, feel free to chime in. That is all.;)

jmshady
02-26-2007, 11:08
Originally posted by stengun
Howdy jmshady,



Not marksmanship training, DM training or I think the Army calls it SDM. Squad Designated Marksman. You know, the guy with the M-21 or maybe a M-24 sniper rifle. I've seen them with both. Mainly the M-21 because the M-24 were just being phased in when I got out, but I remember seeing the 3rd ACR Air Cav's SDM use them at Ft. Bliss/McGregor Range/Meyer Range in 1988.

Since the Air Force did have much of a sniper/DM training, it was done w/ the Army Guard.

Anyway, like I told G8, put up or shut up.

PROVE IT.

Don't post "Well I did a search on google and...." PROVE IT!

Put up or shut up.

Don't post "Well, I work with a guy that was a medic in the Air Force and..."

Heck, I work w/ a guy that was on a sub in the Navy. He was on a sub during the same time that I was in the Navy aboard the USS Nimitz and he doesn't know squat about surface ships. So I guess that an AF medic is an expert on Air Guard ABGD units. Heck, he probably knows all about "Commando Warrior".

Like I said,

PROVE IT!

Put up or shut up.

Paul

Designated Marksman is a far cry from Sniper/Counter Sniper. So you are addmiting you lied about being Sniper/Counter Sniper Qualified? What else did you lie about?

RockSix
03-01-2007, 13:56
Sorry I couldn't help myself..

jmshady
03-01-2007, 14:28
Nice Pic Sir....

It aint about the arguement it is about a piece of crap Poser...

He just needs to be honest about his service. All he is doing is stealing the recognition that is due to those that have accomplished what he has claimed.

stengun
03-01-2007, 18:12
Howdy jmshady,

Originally posted by jmshady
Nice Pic Sir....

It aint about the arguement it is about a piece of crap Poser...

He just needs to be honest about his service. All he is doing is stealing the recognition that is due to those that have accomplished what he has claimed.

What, no proof?

Gee, what did I expect from a keyboard commando.

Paul

stengun
03-01-2007, 18:39
Howdy G8,

Originally posted by G8rzfan
Stengun,
You are right, arguing on the internet is fruitless. I have asked for proof of your outlandish claim that you were part of a 3-man launch crew on Titan IIs. Ultimately, your answer is prove you weren't.

Here is what I propose...
My son graduates tech school in a couple of months and will be stationed at Little Rock AFB. So, I will be attending the 308 SMW Deactivation Reunion in September in conjuction with a visit to my son. I cordially invite you to come to the Reunion with me and tell your story to a couple of hundred true missileers. You and I both know that you will be laughed out of the room. I challenge you to find one person who remembers the launch procedures you stated in the post that started all of this.

I will introduce you to a bunch of people I pulled alert with as proof that I was on crew. You are welcome to do the same...if you can find anyone who even knows who you are.

It is a shame you didn't check out the documents I posted. I would have appreciated a kind word about the creativity and quality of my "forgeries".

For the popcorn & suds crowd...

Per Stengun's request, the link below lists complex 3-4 as the ghost site.
http://www.308smw.com/maps.html

And, the correct answer to the ACP crew question is Alternate Command Post. Actually, complex 3-5 was a regular site...3-8 and 4-1 were ACP sites. They were contingency locations for the Battle Staff. Everyone on crew knew these sites and knew you required extra certification to pull alerts there...more common knowledge for insiders.

Sincerely,
Your favorite Jackass Buttwipe
G8rzfan

You asked for proof by asking questions and I answered them. Then you would say that I only knew the answer because I found it on google. So, I figured that any training records, DD214s or anything else that I could post, you would claim it was forged or fake. You made a big deal out of me calling 3-4 the GHOST SILO instead of the Ghost Site. Especially considering all of the men killed ( only one member of the construction crew lived) were all killed in the Site's missle SILO tube.

So, I thought, what's the point. But, like I said before, everything that you posted can be found on various web sites.

Hey, let's go about this a little differently..........

Here's something you can't find on the 'Net.........

Where was the missle people's building located.

What color was it?

Which way did the building point. Front, rear, sides?

If you were south of the building, and were facing north, what was written on the building?

What color was the writing?

If you where east of the building, and were looking west, what was written on the building?

What color was the writing?

If you were at "The Rock" from '82 to '87, and was a member of the 308th, you will know these things.

The building is still there today but it is being used for something different now.

Gee, I named a couple of SPs that I worked with, don't you remember any of them?

If you will send me a PM shortly before the Reunion, I will see if any of the guys that I knew are going to go to it. Like I said before, I wasn't part of the 308th and only worked with the 314th SP for 12 weeks. Part of this time was spent humpin' planes and the rest was spent at Camp Robinson.

Ok, I wait for your answers.

Paul

jmshady
03-01-2007, 20:31
Originally posted by jmshady
Designated Marksman is a far cry from Sniper/Counter Sniper. So you are addmiting you lied about being Sniper/Counter Sniper Qualified? What else did you lie about?

You have not disputed this. That is all the proof needed.

waynecarlisle
03-10-2007, 21:41
Really cool !!!!

I was at LRAFB as an SP with the 308th SPS from October 1975 till June 1979. I worked both base and missle security. From what I remember, there were 4 missle crew members at each site. A two man team of SPs would spend a 24 hour shift on duty at a site. We were called "SAC guards". The SPs would be responsible for multiple sites during the shift.

Anybody remember "Capt Spock"?? He was a crew commander that had a really weird sense of humor. He had his crew save all the scrap tinfoil during their tours. He had a "ball" of tinfoil that was about 20" in diameter. Fun guy!!!

Not bad duty.

Wayne

stengun
03-21-2007, 21:59
Howdy Everybody!

What happened to G8rzfan?

He asked all kinds of question to me and I answered them to the best that I could remembered. G8 claimed that I got all my answers from google. No matter what I come up with, G8 will claim that it was faked or that I learned about it on the 'Net.

Anyway, I feel that G8 has been around Titan II's, but he really never stated anything about "The Rock" except for the Ghost Silo, which he could have learned about on the 'Net, since he claimed that's how I knew about site 373-4 being the Ghost Site or Ghost Silo.

So, I decided to ask him about certain things about "The Rock" that anybody assigned to the 308th would remember, especially for somebody that is as nitpick as G8.

Anyway, no response.


jmshady, you keep thinking 2007. Try 1983. In '83, SP and LE were two different AFSC's and women were not allowed to be SP. Now they are all SFs and they allow women to do all jobs. Same with the Navy. I did part of a Med Cruise and part of a WesPac on the USS Nimitz. Back then there was on men allowed on combat ships. Nowdays 1/5 of the Nimitz crew are female.

Alot of things have changed in the military in the past 25 years and you might not be able to find alot of the pre-internet era things on the web. Keep googleing, you might find something. You might want to have your mom to remove the parental restrictions on your computer, it might make it easier to find things out about the military before 1995.

Try this web site......

http://www.txmarks.org/ (web page)

How about if I posted a copy of my certificate from sniper/countersniper school at Camp Robinson? Would that make you happy?

Paul

waynecarlisle
03-22-2007, 07:09
There were females in SPs before '83. We had two butterbar females in '79. I think they were some of the first ones. This was at LRAFB 308th SPS. Sorry, I don't remember their names. One was kind of short and had a great attitude. The other was slim and very serious. Both had the makings of being good officers. Anybody remember TSGT Mackey, or Sgt Bugs Payne, SGT JD Hunt? I do remember the commander that was there in '76. Lt Col Hoffstetler. I will never forget that man.

What were the sites around Bald Knob? I was up there one crisp clear morning running an alarm at one of the sites. When I called to CSC to report all clear, the person that replied to me asked for my call again. I gave it to him again and he wanted to know where I was. I thought that was strange. I told him and he again asked for my call. Turned out that he was CSC at Whiteman AFB. The "skip" was working very well that morning. Most of that morning we had to identify with "Little Rock Security 5" to "Little Rock Security Control" otherwise it would get very confusing.

Oh the memories...

Wayne