Slugs not allowed for Florida security guards? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ian
02-13-2007, 13:45
I was told that slugs are not allowed in shotguns for security guards in the State of Florida.
I can't find this in writing anywhere.

Usingmyrights
02-14-2007, 21:40
Originally posted by Ian
I was told that slugs are not allowed in shotguns for security guards in the State of Florida.
I can't find this in writing anywhere.

I've never seen a security guard with anything more then a .38 or 9mm. Usually a S&W model 10.

geekboy
02-14-2007, 22:16
Well, I think that's because they can only carry .38 or .357 with .38 ammunition, or, .380 or 9mm semi-automatics based on qualification...

Effective July 1, 2005, the statute was changed to read:

Florida Statutes 493.6115 "Weapons and Firearms"
(6) Unless otherwise approved by the department, the only firearm a Class "CC," Class "D," Class "M," or Class "MB" licensee who has been issued a Class "G" license may carry is a .38 or .357 caliber revolver with factory .38 caliber ammunition only. In addition to any other firearm approved by the department, a Class "C" or Class "MA" licensee who has been issued a Class "G" license may carry a .38 caliber revolver; or a .380 caliber or 9 millimeter semiautomatic pistol; or a .357 caliber revolver with .38 caliber ammunition only. A Class "C" licensee who also holds a Class "D" license, and who has been issued a Class "G" license, may carry a 9 millimeter semiautomatic pistol while performing security-related services. No licensee may carry more than two firearms upon her or his person when performing her or his duties. A licensee may only carry a firearm of the specific type and caliber with which she or he is qualified pursuant to the firearms training referenced in subsection (8) or s. 493.6113(3)(b).

Ian
02-15-2007, 08:00
You can absolutely carry a shotgun.
493.6115
"If an armed security officer's duties require a firearm such as a shotgun, etc.
A written waiver must be obtained from the Division prior to it's use. Waivers must be requested by the licensed agency and will be granted only upon showing of sufficient need. Such waivers are valid only for the specific duty, post or activity, on or for which the request is based"
Doesn't say anything about slugs though.

geekboy
02-15-2007, 10:36
Right, but not by default. The agency for which the licensee works for (the person holding a "G" license), must specifically apply for an exception.

There's nothing which states how to overcome the exception. The state has also granted exceptions for certain agencies to carry AR-15 carbines as well. The key is that it's exception based. I would venture to guess that a company like PTI (Protection Technology) which provides security services for Nuclear Power Plants, would qualify for an "exception". However, you're not going to see the guy at the mall with a shotgun.

Err, that didn't come out right. You're not going to see mall security guards with shotguns or AR-15 carbines.

Ian
02-15-2007, 10:40
:animlol:
One of the security guys that I was just on a course with, is issued AR 15's and Shotguns. He is protecting planes at an airforce base.

geekboy
02-15-2007, 10:44
Originally posted by Ian
You can absolutely carry a shotgun.
493.6115
"If an armed security officer's duties require a firearm such as a shotgun, etc.
A written waiver must be obtained from the Division prior to it's use. Waivers must be requested by the licensed agency and will be granted only upon showing of sufficient need. Such waivers are valid only for the specific duty, post or activity, on or for which the request is based"
Doesn't say anything about slugs though. Also, in 493.6115, I don't see that paragraph which you're quoting.

Florida Statutes Section 493 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0493/Sec6115.HTM)

Where did you find that? I'm just curious because I've been looking into opening an agency (Private Investigations and Personal Protection) in Florida with some retiring LE friends of mine and have been looking at all of the licensing requirements for "C" and "G" licenses and "A" and "B" agencies.

Edit: some spelling corrections... and correct license types!

geekboy
02-15-2007, 10:48
Originally posted by Ian
:animlol:
One of the security guys that I was just on a course with, is issued AR 15's and Shotguns. He is protecting planes at an airforce base. Exactly, now that's a job which has an exception. My friend is on the SRT for a nuclear power plant, not in Flroida. He has an AR-15 carbine and a shotgun and a sidearm. The exceptions, however, are very specific to teh type of job they are performing. At least where he works, he has powers of arrest and is a "special officer".

Ian
02-15-2007, 11:28
Geekboy: You are right, I can't see it there either.
I have it in the new Security Officer Handbook issued by the Division of Licensing, page 7, chapter V Firearms.

geekboy
02-15-2007, 11:48
Originally posted by Ian
Geekboy: You are right, I can't see it there either.
I have it in the new Security Officer Handbook issued by the Division of Licensing, page 7, chapter V Firearms. Well, I've ordered some junk from DOACS, hopefully it's in there -- the manual that is.

poison7fl
02-18-2007, 04:59
I believe that Security Guards should not carry anything lethal. I might get a lot of flack for that, but jeez, these guys are not trained, they take a 4-8 hour class and get a permit to carry on duty??? And, yes... I was a Security Guard who carried a .357 during my college years.

This is the breakdown of Security Guards:

50% - Retirees
48% - LEO washouts/wannabees
1% - Honest, hard working people.
1% - Just need the job man.

:mallninja:

geekboy
02-18-2007, 11:59
Originally posted by poison7fl
I believe that Security Guards should not carry anything lethal. I might get a lot of flack for that, but jeez, these guys are not trained, they take a 4-8 hour class and get a permit to carry on duty??? And, yes... I was a Security Guard who carried a .357 during my college years.This is not in defense of security guards, but -- in Florida -- the "G" license is a 28 hour class. That's in addition to the 40 hour "D" license (basic security guard).

That's more training than you need to get your Concealed Weapons and Firearm License (CWFL) -- aka the "W" license -- here in Florida! It's 14 times the number of hours for a personal "W" license (you only need 2 hours for the "W" license). I've yet to see a security guard ever pull their gun... whereas those situations I am more likely to pull my gun! I've never taken the "G" license training, but it probably follows the UN (blue hat/target) rule which reads "don't touch your gun until you're shot at". ;)

(For the "G" license, you spend 20 hours in class learning retention, the law, etc. You spend 8 hours on the range. In the personal "W" license, you spend 2 hours total with most concentration on the law (nothing on retention) and then you only need to shoot one round, and hit the target which is 3 feet away!!!!!)

This is the breakdown of Security Guards:

50% - Retirees
48% - LEO washouts/wannabees
1% - Honest, hard working people.
1% - Just need the job man.

:mallninja: I don't think it's 50% retirees... at least the last "D"/"G" class I saw, was mostly 20-something folks. I do agree that probaby about half are folks who would have wanted to be in Law Enforcement, but for varying reasons don't. My friend wanted to be LE, but his wife won't let him. So he's on a Special Response Team at a nuclear power plant. Yeah, he has the same gear, has pwoers of arrest in his state, and carries really scary weapons. I guess his wife thinks that is safer. They train every week on a combat range. The state police and special teams train with them. :)

Teslaus
02-21-2007, 16:09
Shouldn't they carry the same caliber? Like 9mm everywhere?

geekboy
02-21-2007, 17:49
Originally posted by Teslaus
Shouldn't they carry the same caliber? Like 9mm everywhere? Who? Security Guards? Under the "G" license, they can carry .38, 9mm (recent addition), .380 auto or .357 with .38 ammo. The law severely restricts the type of weapon and type of ammo utilized (including pre-fragmented or glaser types). I believe they restrict jacketed rounds except in autos.

You have to realize that many of these security companies and provisions have been around for a long time. Many agencies still have .38 revolvers issued to armed staff. I think there are few security guard companies that have 9mm. You have to take into account that the wepon used by the security guard, ir probably issued by the security company. Many security companies, with what little they make, are just not going out and re-arming (and re-training and re-certifying) their officers.

After leaving the Air Force's CID, my brother joined a private security detail at a U.S. Naval installation. He used to laugh and share stories how they had to turn the weapon (.38 cailber S&W) in each night, that it was "rusty and probably couldn't shoot", and that he actually handed it to the "next" guard on duty.

Stretchman
03-11-2007, 06:50
To answer the OP, it is only 00 buck or #4 buck, IIRC.

Been a couple of years, and yes, you need a waiver.

Blitzer
03-11-2007, 08:50
Originally posted by poison7fl
I believe that Security Guards should not carry anything lethal. I might get a lot of flack for that, but jeez, these guys are not trained, they take a 4-8 hour class and get a permit to carry on duty??? And, yes... I was a Security Guard who carried a .357 during my college years.

This is the breakdown of Security Guards:

50% - Retirees
48% - LEO washouts/wannabees
1% - Honest, hard working people.
1% - Just need the job man.

:mallninja:

Here you go.

OK poison7fl, please help us to understand how you came to your opinion and provide the resources you used to come up with your statistics?

By the way opinions are like sphincter muscles, everyone has one.

:moonie: :rant: :soap:

That being said:

In many parts of the world security is very serious business and most guards have the same qualifications as the LEOs. But this is America and price dictates performance.

:rant: :steamed: :soap:

Ian
04-11-2007, 15:03
:) That's funny.
I just received the Firearms Instructor's Training Manual prepared by the Division of Licensing, and I found the answer to my own question!
This is old (revised 5/04), contains many mistakes, and needs re- writing in my opinion.
But it does clearly state in extra large bold capitols and underlined!
THE USE OF THE RIFLE SLUG IS PROHIBITED