Training opportunity [Archive] - Glock Talk


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02-13-2007, 23:59
April 27th-29th Force on Force in Seymore, IN. If you carry a gun, you should learn how to fight for your life with it. Why spend 400+ dollars on a gun and not know how to shoot it? Or how your holster works?

April 27th is the Force on Force Primer and the 28-29th is Force on Force Scenarios.

So you've taken a tactical class or two or ten. You can shoot cardboard and steel on demand. This class is the next step. You will have a chance to test your defensive skills against thinking, moving adversaries in realistic scenarios. Years of static square range training won't give you the tools and insights that these two days of tactical problem solving will.

This course is not for beginning students. You should already have a handle on the legal and practical sides of personal defense and need to have graduated from a Tactical Response or a comparable school's Tactical Pistol course.

View more at

02-14-2007, 08:59
Interesting, but I'll be at Pat Rogers AK class.

Please let us know how it goes.:)

02-14-2007, 09:42
A review from last weekends "The Fight".

I came to this class with good technical skills: lots of IDPA and practice, Andy Stanford's SSS I&II Class last year, and Tactical Rifle 1. (NOT Fighting Pistol, which would have been better prep for FoF).

I simply did not know what to expect from this class. The results simply have blown me away and I am going to be a while assimilating what I've learned. There are easy lessons here, and hard ones that take some after-action agonizing.

I agree with Shay that FoF should be part of EVERYONE's CCW training. If you've taken this class you know what I mean when I say that there is so much more to a gunfight than the "gun" and the "fight". Punching holes is fun no doubt, but that's not, repeat NOT gunfighting.

As I sit here tonight after driving home, here a few things that I'm taking away:

"The time for shooting is not the time for communicating". I vocalized too much on day 1, day 2 much better.

"It's OK to walk away". Listen to your instincts. They are there for a reason.

"Does someone NEED to be shot" ? Nuff said.

"Adrenaline does some freaky ****". Get vaccinated by Dr. Shay.

"Never, ever, ever, ever, EVER loan Mike money".

And finally...

"SHUT THE F UP!" (know what I mean, wink wink nudge nudge)

If you have not YET taken this class, FIND A WAY TO DO IT. You will not be disappointed and you WILL learn something about yourself. When you take it, don't game it. You will make mistakes. It's OK, learn from them here, not in the big scary world.

02-14-2007, 09:42
Another student review...

I cannot tell you guys a lot about the specific scenarios I was in this weekend. If I did, I would rob you of the ability to learn from them when you take the class.

This experience is what it is all about. Fighting Pistol is still the gateway to enlightenment, but the only purpose it really serves is to teach you how to handle your gun during FoF.

The Fight is not about shooting skill at all. Skill is developed on the range with practice; this is the stuff that is impossible to learn without human interaction. You may think you know what you would do if the SHTF. You do not. People always say “If that happened to me I would do this…” They are full of crap. People often think about fighting, but they never dream of what they would do after they shoot someone.

I can now tell you from experience, it is relatively easy to slay some random attacker (really, I did it over and over). That is no big deal, and you can learn to do that on the square range. What you do BEFORE AND AFTER a conflict can save or destroy your life.

Does this sound like a lot of responsibility to carry a gun? It is, but people who do not carry a gun are no less responsible, they just don’t have a clue. The stuff that happened to me in this class does not happen only to people who carry guns. Does everybody go to ATMs, movies, restaurants? Yes. Bad things happen to all kinds of people, evil does not discriminate. Be one of the people that at least have some idea what to do.

02-14-2007, 09:48
And another...

This is one of the MOST important classes you could ever take, period! You can sit and think and visualize all the time (it truly helped me), but you really don't know what you will do until it happens, trust me. Shay told us we would do things that we would swear an affidavit that we wouldn't, I think we ALL did, I KNOW I did.

Mindset wise: I had trained myself over the past couple of years that at the first sign of weapon/aggression to immediately fight. That assumption has been laid waste. I need to do the math BEFORE skinning the 'ol smoke wagon. I like to think that I am CAPTAIN AVOIDANCE... I am not. I had one scenario where I didn't leave, and got shot for it. Overall, I feel that I have come a LONG way. I am pleased and will continue to work on my weaknesses. Make up your mind what you will die for NOW, not when it happens. I need to think and evaluate before I fight.

Tactics: We ALL say we will find cover. I caught myself in the open for uncomfortable periods of time. Visualization helps tremendously with this aspect. MOVE! Movement is usually the difference between getting shot and getting away uncut or not shot, PERIOD.
Skill: First let me say that all those payments you make when you're tired and sick and just really don't want to train in the cold and rain PAY OFF! Knowing how long it took me to do a specific type of drill saved my life. Knowing how to run your gun and clear malfunctions quickly can be, literally, a life saver. BIG THANKS to all that have taught me!

Gear: Everyone present carried concealed, that was a surprise and showed a real world mindset, kudos to my fellow classmates! The holster/mag pouch combo that I have had for 2 years now was proven to work for me this past weekend. And now an admission... I had always thought that Big Dot sights were neat in the hands of masters, but always steered myself away from them because I thought that my precision shooting would suffer... and that I really know how the stock sights shoot for me... After the FIRST drill with a Big Dot UTM gun, I bought a set. There is nothing that I have tried or seen that could be better against a moving thinking adversary, PERIOD.

Misc.: This was my first class with Shay, and I must say that I was impressed. He actually cares if his students are learning the correct lessons and his demeanor is both calming and confidence inspiring, Thank you. Mike and Joe were INCREDIBLE! Great role players and it was a pleasure to meet and talk to both of you. Thank you both. It was great to see old friends and make some new ones as well. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people from so many different backgrounds can have so much in common.

02-15-2007, 01:42
I haven't taken this class yet, but I have taken 2 others and I can say, without a doubt, I have recieved MORE then my moneys worth in training.

Hope to see you guy's join.