Concealed carry permit? Be ready to see your name in Star database [Archive] - Glock Talk

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skydelta34
02-19-2007, 08:32
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070218/COLUMNISTS07/702180334/1040

The Star intends to put carry permit information in a database available for all. What makes them think this is a good idea???

R. Emmelman
02-19-2007, 09:56
Some posted on the "talk back"

Letter to the editor:

Dear robbers, thugs, gang bangers, etc. You now know I have a license to carry. You can now safely rob and or murder, with safety, those who don't. Happy hunting.

p.s. Why don't you start with the Indy Star editors etc. that brought you this database.

Yours truly,

Heavily armed Hoosier

sjstill
02-19-2007, 11:19
Didn't a paper in another state do that and get sued???

Geeorge
02-19-2007, 11:49
Make sure and post a comment for all to see,I posted under the name Rosie Odogface:thumbsup:

MakeMineaP99
02-19-2007, 12:22
Originally posted by sjstill
Didn't a paper in another state do that and get sued???

Wouldn't this fall under Constitutional protection? What would be the grounds for a lawsuit?

R. Emmelman
02-19-2007, 13:35
That and public record.

I wonder who this "Pig Ugly" guy is
(nudge, nudge, wink, wink)

MakeMineaP99
02-19-2007, 13:57
Originally posted by R. Emmelman
That and public record.

I wonder who this "Pig Ugly" guy is
(nudge, nudge, wink, wink)

My point is the press does have a right to public records, under the same Constitution that allow us to own firearms.

Now the question is, how do LTCH records get closed? I would like the LTCH records to be the same as tax records--private.

ETA: I'm mad as HELL about this!! I was the victim of a robbery for the strict purpose of obtaining firearms. Allowing criminals to see every potential gun source in the paper is irresponsible, not to mention dangerous, and will lead to more crime.

To add insult to injury, I'm pissed off the Red Star wants to attack citizens from all over the state for political gain. I hope someone can humble these arrogant idiots!

eprn
02-19-2007, 20:46
I moved here from Ohio a couple of years ago. The Cleveland Plain Dealer has been publishing lists of Ohio CHL holders since the CCW law has been put into effect.

I thought I was getting away from this crap when I moved here.

There are people who have sued them, but as I understand it, they got nowhere. What they did do was get at least one gentleman killed because the thugs planning on robbing him found his name on the list and preemptively killed him.

After all, they argue, it's the public's right to know.

It's nothing short of harassment of people with LTCs.

You can find out more from Ohioans for Concealed Carry:

www.ohioccw.org

Patrick Graham
02-19-2007, 20:51
Now I'm all pissed off and I won't be able to get to sleep tonight.

:yuck:

F^^K'en libtard star

eprn
02-19-2007, 20:59
:soap:

I'm not done yet.

What about victims of domestic violence or rape victims? If these folks get a LTC, why is the press advertising it?

Who speaks for these people? How dare they risk their lives to make some point!

If I have an LTC, it's my business and, regrettably, the state's business. Lots of things are public record, but that doesn't mean that the press needs to help the thugs out by making the information a little more readily available for them.

You know, many in Ohio advocated publishing the addresses (and phone numbers, if I recall) of the paper's management and reporters.

It's not such a bad idea...

IPDBrad
02-19-2007, 21:37
This paper has lost it. They are just so anti-gun that somehow I am sure they feel this does something to generate a controversey.

MakeMineaP99
02-19-2007, 22:03
Originally posted by eprn
I moved here from Ohio a couple of years ago. The Cleveland Plain Dealer has been publishing lists of Ohio CHL holders since the CCW law has been put into effect.

I thought I was getting away from this crap when I moved here.

There are people who have sued them, but as I understand it, they got nowhere. What they did do was get at least one gentleman killed because the thugs planning on robbing him found his name on the list and preemptively killed him.

After all, they argue, it's the public's right to know.

It's nothing short of harassment of people with LTCs.

You can find out more from Ohioans for Concealed Carry:

www.ohioccw.org

Does anyone know any case law where the press lost, either in IN or elsewhere? I'm interested to know what the argument would be limiting the press from this information.

Thanks!

Dan

MakeMineaP99
02-19-2007, 22:06
Originally posted by IPDBrad
This paper has lost it. They are just so anti-gun that somehow I am sure they feel this does something to generate a controversey.

+1 and they're not just after Indy anymore, but the entire state. Someone needs to go on the offensive and put that paper on the defensive.

Dan (wishing I owned a newspaper)

trx63
02-19-2007, 22:08
I'm glad I do not live there. it is a dam shame, because to me the whole reason behind gitting a CONSEALED permit is to do just what it says concealment. If I wanted everyone to know that I carried a would just wear it on my hip so everyone could see.

rhino465
02-20-2007, 04:26
Didn't they threaten to do this in the past, but were cowed into not doing it? Or am I thinking about a paper in another state?

In any case, it's obvious these knuckleheads are getting some "advice" from people who are not from Indiana. I think that's one reason why they either assume we have "concealed" carry "permits" or at least why that language is used.

I also note that the story about the woman who successfully defended herself from a violent home invasion on the east side Saturday night was a tiny paragraph buried in the middle of the Metro section on Monday morning. Had it gone badly for the home defender in some way, it would have been on the front page above the fold.

blue303
02-20-2007, 07:47
This really ticks me off. I saw that yesterday morning and I'm just as mad now as I was then. I did post a reply back on their website. It is from annoyed reader.

What can we do to stop this?

epsylum
02-20-2007, 09:25
Originally posted by blue303
This really ticks me off. I saw that yesterday morning and I'm just as mad now as I was then. I did post a reply back on their website. It is from annoyed reader.

What can we do to stop this?

Stop buying it and tell everyone you know what they did and try to get them to stop as well.

I have not paid for a single Red Star in my life. They give them out for free at Ivy Tech. I know I will be telling my buddy at work (who has a LTC) that he needs to cancel his subscription and let them know why.

e-mail, write, cancel subscriptions and let them know how much they F-ed up.

JByer323
02-20-2007, 11:53
****ing Star.

minuteman32
02-20-2007, 12:02
Let's have an open carry protest, complete w/ signs & banners, @ the Star! They might freak out if a couple hundred armed citizens were parading around their entrance.

KSFreeman
02-20-2007, 15:22
Look, what is the feasibility of returning the favor? Can we publish the names and addresses of all Star editors and reporters?

Make a website. Buy an ad in the Star. Print up flyers. Hand them out downtown Indianapolis. Anyone else want to fight them?

MakeMineaP99
02-20-2007, 15:26
Originally posted by minuteman32
Let's have an open carry protest, complete w/ signs & banners, @ the Star! They might freak out if a couple hundred armed citizens were parading around their entrance.

I like this idea!

MakeMineaP99
02-20-2007, 15:29
Originally posted by KSFreeman
Look, what is the feasibility of returning the favor? Can we publish the names and addresses of all Star editors and reporters?

Make a website. Buy an ad in the Star. Print up flyers. Hand them out downtown Indianapolis. Anyone else want to fight them?

Cool idea. Criminals will certainly know that the editors and reports are unarmed. :shocked:

If I had any idea how to make a website, I'd be all over it. Anyone know the rates for a full page ad in the star? How many reporters and editors does the star have (might need multiple pages)? I say we print every reporter's and editor's home address and phone.

geekboy
02-20-2007, 15:55
Indiana Glockers... we in Florida feel your pain. The TV channel WFTV-Orlando did the same thing a while ago. My name was published and I was furious. What we did was to appeal to the State legislature and get the law changed. The NRA was instrumental in getting the new legislation.

Now the law blocks the disclosure of the CCW list from the Florida Sunshine Law (FSL) and Freedom of Informatino Act (FOIA). Under the previous rule, only judges, district attorneys, politicians, etc could have their names withheld.

Now the media is upset that the information isn't public. Guess what, while driver license information is "public" you can actually block your "personal" information. The public CCW list had included and addresses and dates of birth!

Funny, the response from WFTV when asked why they published the names and addresses was this... While the legislature has determined that law abiding citizens have the right to carry a concealed weapon, it also has determined that their fellow citizens have a right to know who has been granted such a permit.

-- Naughtin, Linda (CBI-Orlando TV) [Linda.Naughtin@wftv.com] So, the statue (FL 790.0601) was modified. However, the legislature left an "out" for it as all exemptions to the FSL is covered under the Open Government Sunset Review Act of 1995. I don't personally like this clause, but I understand the intent. Just means all exemptions need be reviewed every five years.

790.0601 Public records exemption for concealed weapons.--

(1) Personal identifying information of an individual who has applied for or received a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm pursuant to s. 790.06 held by the Division of Licensing of the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is confidential and exempt from s. 119.07(1) and s. 24(a), Art. I of the State Constitution. This exemption applies to such information held by the division before, on, or after the effective date of this section.

(2) Information made confidential and exempt by this section shall be disclosed:

(a) With the express written consent of the applicant or licensee or his or her legally authorized representative.

(b) By court order upon a showing of good cause.

(c) Upon request by a law enforcement agency in connection with the performance of lawful duties, which shall include access to any automated database containing such information maintained by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.

(3) This section is subject to the Open Government Sunset Review Act in accordance with s. 119.15 and shall stand repealed on October 2, 2011, unless reviewed and saved from repeal through reenactment by the Legislature.

Edit: spelling corrections... probably many more!

geekboy
02-20-2007, 16:07
Here is some more "ammunition" for my Indiana Glockers. Very powerful words I highlighed!

The Legislature has found in prior legislative sessions and has expressed in s. 790.335(1)(a)3., Florida Statutes, that a record of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is ďan instrument that can be used as a means to profile innocent citizens and to harass and abuse American citizens based solely on their choice to own firearms and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution.Ē Release of personal identifying information of an individual who has applied for or received a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm could be used to harass an innocent person based solely on that personís exercised right to carry a concealed weapon or firearm. Further, such information could be used and has been used to identify individuals who have obtained a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm for the purpose of making the identity of the applicant or licensee publicly available via traditional media and the Internet. Once again, such public disclosure contradicts the purpose of carrying a concealed weapon or firearm. Therefore, the Legislature finds that the personal identifying information of an individual who has applied for or received a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm pursuant to chapter 790, Florida Statutes, must be held confidential and exempt from public records requirements.

Section 3. This act shall take effect July 1, 2006.
Approved by the Governor June 7, 2006.
Filed in Office Secretary of State June 7, 2006.
Ch. 2006-102 LAWS OF FLORIDA Ch. 2006-102

geekboy
02-20-2007, 16:14
FYI, Florida Statute 790.335(a) in case you was wondering. :) Florida doesn't get everything right, but this one, they are dead on. I want all law-abiding firearm owners to take note. Registrations and lists and databases shoud not be used to fight terrorism... they only cause profiling!

Also look at 790.335(a)(4)... priceless. We deserve redress if someone publishes our information!

790.335 Prohibition of registration of firearms.--

(1) LEGISLATIVE FINDINGS AND INTENT.--

(a) The Legislature finds and declares that:

1. The right of individuals to keep and bear arms is guaranteed under both the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and s. 8, Art. I of the State Constitution.

2. A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a law enforcement tool and can become an instrument for profiling, harassing, or abusing law-abiding citizens based on their choice to own a firearm and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution. Further, such a list, record, or registry has the potential to fall into the wrong hands and become a shopping list for thieves.

3. A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a tool for fighting terrorism, but rather is an instrument that can be used as a means to profile innocent citizens and to harass and abuse American citizens based solely on their choice to own firearms and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution.

4. Law-abiding firearm owners whose names have been illegally recorded in a list, record, or registry are entitled to redress.

KSFreeman
02-20-2007, 16:25
So, can someone send a copy of this Florida statute to Senator Nugent?

tlish
02-20-2007, 20:41
thanks for the heads-up. i just added my .02 to their site.

geekboy
02-21-2007, 00:24
Originally posted by KSFreeman
So, can someone send a copy of this Florida statute to Senator Nugent? Sounds like you just volunteered.

Since I'm not an Indiana resident, it is inappropriate for me to comment to the Senator on Indiana statutes. You need a grass roots and unified front to go to the legislature and turn the tables.

3/325
02-21-2007, 00:54
It's like a Sears Catalog, except it's for criminals. Who wants to go shopping for a throw-away piece?

Jackasses.

TheWanderer
02-21-2007, 19:03
I called the NRA Legislative Center today and reported it. They said they'd have our lobbyist look into it.

Geeorge
02-26-2007, 05:15
It's still open for comments only 57 right now.

We need more postings on their web site ,I can't do it alone.And don't ask about my current post count;)

SHINGLE MONKEY
02-26-2007, 07:34
Can we get a list of stars employees home address and list them as gun free houses:rofl:


I'm sure a few burglars would appreciate it. ;)

DCSO0322
02-27-2007, 04:37
I just added my .02. My father has a permit and is also a police officer. Just what he would want printed, his personal information for anyone that is mad at him for being arrested to have. I know several other police officers that keep a permit just for the ease when buying a gun from a store, saves some time.

JT-Hickman
02-27-2007, 14:29
just saw this and posted today as IndyVet

Perry F.
02-27-2007, 14:40
Why would they want to do this?

R. Emmelman
02-27-2007, 15:31
Originally posted by Perry F.
Why would they want to do this?
The same reason they endorsed Julia Cason for Congress.

sonny27
03-01-2007, 10:44
I talked to Dennis Ryerson, He is the editor and author of this article. My first words to him were I just read this article, and before I could say anything else he stopped me. He said, there will be no printing of names and addresses of Indiana citizens with carry permits. He took the blame for not being more specific about it during the article. He obviously received alot of feedback since he stopped me before I got to say anything. What he is going to post is how many carry permits are in each zip code. It was very obvious that he was feeling heat from license holders. Hope this clear's this matter up and good job from everyone who voice there opinion to the indystar.

geekboy
03-01-2007, 10:59
Originally posted by sonny27
I talked to Dennis Ryerson, He is the editor and author of this article. My first words to him were I just read this article, and before I could say anything else he stopped me. He said, there will be no printing of names and addresses of Indiana citizens with carry permits. He took the blame for not being more specific about it during the article. He obviously received alot of feedback since he stopped me before I got to say anything. What he is going to post is how many carry permits are in each zip code. It was very obvious that he was feeling heat from license holders. Hope this clear's this matter up and good job from everyone who voice there opinion to the indystar. Regardless, my Indiana Glockers should still pursue legislative change to have the Statutes ammended to seal the data. Sorry, I don't trust the media at large.

KSFreeman
03-01-2007, 11:41
geekboy, dead center!

MakeMineaP99
03-01-2007, 21:36
Originally posted by KSFreeman
geekboy, dead center!

Which Senator or Rep has the balls to introduce the bill? You know the media will cry we're limiting their right to freedom of the press.

geekboy
03-01-2007, 21:43
Originally posted by MakeMineaP99
Which Senator or Rep has the balls to introduce the bill? You know the media will cry we're limiting their right to freedom of the press. Try it this way. Find a pro R2KBA senator/representative. You should construct the new language of the proposed bill. (You know, actually "re-write" the portions of the Indiana Statutes affected.) Then hand it to him/her and tell them you did the hard work, now all they need do is bring it to the floor. I suggested copying the pertinent sections of the Florida Statutes. I provided them. Florida did it be ammending the Statutes and adding the following two new Statutes...

790.0601 Public records exemption for concealed weapons
790.335 Prohibition of registration of firearms

I don't think you need the add the 790.335, but it would be nice. Actually, I'd have them send it to the floor with both the Records Exemptino AND the Prohibition of Registratino... and if it goes to caucus and having issues passing it, at least pass the Records Exemption one and give the Brady Bunch something to go claim they won (by saying they stopped illegal "unregistered" firearms or some such baloney.)

dwh79
03-02-2007, 17:54
I agree that the names & addresses should have protection from being released. I also talked to Dennis Ryerson from the Star and he stated the zip code thing. I believe that printing only zip code info will show how many hoosiers use there right to arms and hopefully show that Hoosiers believe in the right to bear arms and choose to use it. And criminals will realize that Indiana is not the place to break into homes.

R. Emmelman
03-03-2007, 08:52
I thought this was old news! The Star did a piece a couple year back with the same information. Don't they have any REAL news to report? Oh, that's right, they are too busy giving aid and comfort to Sir Bart and his ilk.