An extra mag.. no thanks.

[Lionel Mandrake]

1. When in real life has a CHLer had to reload?
-not that I want to be the first to find out, but, I read many
accounts of people using deadly force, but a reload wasn't done

2. Mags tend to be heavy.

3. If you are forced to use your weapon to defend your life...
it might be hard to explain, to a jury of laymen, why you have 34 rounds of 9mm JHPs just to walk yer dog.

4. I have a G17 so one mag = 17 rounds.

[adrianor]

:popcorn:

[1-2man]

What if there are 18 of them coming for you? You better be a good shot. :supergrin:

[happyguy]

Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake
1. When in real life has a CHLer had to reload?
-not that I want to be the first to find out, but, I read many
accounts of people using deadly force, but a reload wasn't done

2. Mags tend to be heavy.

3. If you are forced to use your weapon to defend your life...
it might be hard to explain, to a jury of laymen, why you have 34 rounds of 9mm JHPs just to walk yer dog.

4. I have a G17 so one mag = 17 rounds.

1. It has happened. If it happens to you you won't be the first.

2. So are coffins and regrets.

3. If the shooting is justified there won't be anything else to explain. If you run out of ammo you won't be explaining anything to anybody.

4. Not everyone carries a weapon that holds 17+1 rounds.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

[stangyg123]

It's more than just needing a spare for reloading, having a spare magazine eliminates the problems associated with a primary magazine malfunction.

If you feel comfortable not carrying a spare that is fine, personally I do not feel comfortable unless I am. Each to his own. :)

[Glock-R1980]

Originally posted by stangyg123
It's more than just needing a spare for reloading, having a spare magazine eliminates the problems associated with a primary magazine malfunction.

If you feel comfortable not carrying a spare that is fine, personally I do not feel comfortable unless I am. Each to his own. :)

I agree.

[Rebel_James]

Originally posted by stangyg123
It's more than just needing a spare for reloading, having a spare magazine eliminates the problems associated with a primary magazine malfunction.

If you feel comfortable not carrying a spare that is fine, personally I do not feel comfortable unless I am. Each to his own. :)

:thumbsup:


I'd rather be explaining to the Police why I had an extra mag than.....

explaining to St. Peter why I did NOT!


:thumbsup:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v32/Rebel_James/PimpedG27004.jpg

[degoodman]

Jeeze Group Captain...stirring the pot something fierce on your 4th day.

The decision to carry extra ammunition is a very personal one, and should be made based on a realistic assessment of risks. There are benefits and drawbacks with either choice.

In favor of carrying extra magazines.

-You may need more ammunition. Considering that real on-street hit rates are around 20%, your 18 rounds in a G17 statistically will end up with about 3 or 4 on target. That's enough hits for about 1 BG. What if there's more?

-The single most likely component to cause a feed realted jam in a semi-auto is the magazine. The best solution to a mag related problem is to get a new mag in there.

-Magazines get lost or dropped from pistols under combat conditions. inadvertantly pressed mag release, a fight for the gun that trips the magazine, etc, or the infamous "speed unload" where a magazine floorplate comes off leaving ammo all over the place, usually when a full mag hits the ground hard. without more magazines, you're screwed.

-From a carry perspective, extra magazines help to balance and offset the weight of the pistol on the belt. This helps to prevent stress related back and hip injuries.

Arguments against carrying additional magazines include

-It is HIGHLY unlikely that a civilian delf defense incident will require a reload for a successful outcome.

- To be useful, extra magazines should be carried in proper mag carriers, adding width to the shooter's belt and further complexifying concealment. Pocket carried mags are slow to access, collect lint and other trash, and are seldom in the proper orientation for a smooth draw and presentation.

-In a situation where the shooter is vastly outnumbered, extra ammunition is not all that helpful. You need to be running not staying in a fight against those kind of odds. NOONE is fast enough to outdraw and engage 3+ adversaries without taking gunfire in the process.

-Extra magazines are more weight and more bulk, and weight and bulk can discourage everyday carry.

Of all the reasons to not carry an extra mag, how it will look in front of a jury is the least of your worries. Expert testimony from ANY competent instructor will defuse that argument instantaneously. Police carry at least 2 magazines on their belt, and you're carrying that many or less.

I often carry an extra mag for my G23, but I often don't too. Is it possible that I'll need 15, instead of the 14 I have, yes, but the possibility is remote. Many CCW carriers carry a 5 shot revolver as their carry piece, and I'm already two reloads ahead of them.

So carry an extra mag, or don't. The odds of needing it are small, but if you find yourself in those small odds you'll need it really badly.

[jsh008]

1 example. The bank you deposit your check at gets robbed while you're there, by a team of robbers. All have guns. All are robbing customers for money, and when they don't have anything to give up, they get shot. I'd hope like hell I hadn't forgot my extra mag or 2. A jury will judge you on the amount of rounds you fired, not the ones you didn't, that is if you're prosecuted. I'd like to think that you'd only be prosecuted if the shoot isn't justified. You will only be judged by the rounds you didn't fire if you go into a situation looking for trouble.

[adamsesq]

1: Lots of scenarios could benefit from an extra mag. SD situations are not always going to be a one-on-one and then the threat is done. I imagine a group of thugs...

2: Call it tactical training, call it whatever, but whenever I expend more than 1/2 of my mag (which in a worse case can be as small as three shots), I am reloading with my backup mag the first break I get. Habbit.

You might never need it BUT an extra mag is really easy to carry just in case.

-Scott

[Pima Pants]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake

3. If you are forced to use your weapon to defend your life...
it might be hard to explain, to a jury of laymen, why you have 34 rounds of 9mm JHPs just to walk yer dog.

You make an excellent point. There have been many discussions here quoting Mas Ayoob and the idea that you shouldn't give a politically motivated district attorney any reason to make you look like you were "spoiling for a fight". Ayoob speaks to lightened trigger pulls, non-standard ammunition, etc. I wonder what his opinion would be on this subject? That the police carry spare magazines so a citizen should also? An anti-gun D.A. seeking higher political aspirations would make it look like you wanted to be a cop. The idea that a "righteous" shooting will protect you criminally and civilly actually flies in the face of what Ayoob preaches.

This will be an interesting discussion. Thank you for bringing it up.

Ken

[uhlawpup]

Originally posted by jsh008
1 example. The bank you deposit your check at gets robbed while you're there, by a team of robbers. All have guns. All are robbing customers for money, and when they don't have anything to give up, they get shot. I'd hope like hell I hadn't forgot my extra mag or 2. A jury will judge you on the amount of rounds you fired, not the ones you didn't, that is if you're prosecuted. I'd like to think that you'd only be prosecuted if the shoot isn't justified. You will only be judged by the rounds you didn't fire if you go into a situation looking for trouble.

My lifestyle is such that an extra magazine is not reasonably necessary for me.

I do have to admit, though, I am curious about the scenario above. (I dislike scenarios, but, nevertheless...) I am trying to figure out how two extra magazines and my one pistol are going to stave off a team of armed robbers.

[RussP]

Lionel Mandrake, you ever fly a plane? Ride in a plane?

If you've flown you know that there are at least two directional finders...compass. There are at least two ways to communicate. There are redundant systems all over an airplane.

They are there "just in case".

Same goes for an extra mag. I carry one every day...just because.

I hope I never use it.

But, I can tell you, when flying, redundancy is good. Your life may depend on it.

When in a self defense situation, your life may depend on that redundant extra mag.

:cool:

[Glockwork Orange]

One of my old partners on NYPD got into our patrol car one day and we hear a metallic "pop"...she looks down and sees her 15 rounds spilling out of her G19 all over the inside of the car...her floorplate had popped off and everything dumped out...if that had happened during a "situation" she might not be here today...

We don't know how it happened and I'm not a Monday morning quarterback...but I was there and witnessed it...

Carry a spare magazine...that event firmly planted this in my mind...you'd think that since it was a Glock that couldn't happen BUT, it can happen to any gun, anytime (although it never happened to my Dept. SIG 226 :supergrin: )

[GlocksterPaulie]

Murphy's law seems to be a big part of my life, that is one of my reasons for a spare mag.

Paulie

[stangyg123]

Originally posted by Glockwork Orange
One of my old partners on NYPD got into our patrol car one day and we hear a metallic "pop"...she looks down and sees her 15 rounds spilling out of her G19 all over the inside of the car...her floorplate had popped off and everything dumped out...

Nothing like a good speed unload to make you realize how important it is to have a spare mag. :supergrin:

[Nitro66DS]

Originally posted by uhlawpup
My lifestyle is such that an extra magazine is not reasonably necessary for me.

I do have to admit, though, I am curious about the scenario above. (I dislike scenarios, but, nevertheless...) I am trying to figure out how two extra magazines and my one pistol are going to stave off a team of armed robbers.

My question for the folks out there is: is there any case studies where a shooter was prosecuted for having too much ammo in an otherwise justified shooting? I don't think it is so much what a prosecutor asks as much as how you answer the question.

[Lionel Mandrake]

Originally posted by Pima Pants
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake

3. If you are forced to use your weapon to defend your life...
it might be hard to explain, to a jury of laymen, why you have 34 rounds of 9mm JHPs just to walk yer dog.

You make an excellent point. There have been many discussions here quoting Mas Ayoob and the idea that you shouldn't give a politically motivated district attorney any reason to make you look like you were "spoiling for a fight". Ayoob speaks to lightened trigger pulls, non-standard ammunition, etc. I wonder what his opinion would be on this subject? That the police carry spare magazines so a citizen should also? An anti-gun D.A. seeking higher political aspirations would make it look like you wanted to be a cop. The idea that a "righteous" shooting will protect you criminally and civilly actually flies in the face of what Ayoob preaches.

This will be an interesting discussion. Thank you for bringing it up.

Ken

Ken...
this buds for you:cheers:

However, you all make good points.

Like when Happyguy said:

3. If the shooting is justified there won't be anything else to explain. If you run out of ammo you won't be explaining anything to anybody.


You go to trial for what you did, not what you did it with.
(non CHL-CPLs and Felons excluded.)

[MusingDaddy]

"Gee I wish I didn't have that extra magazine."

--words never heard in a self-defense shooting.

[DJTeancum]

My more "sensible" responses, some of which have been mentioned:

1. secondary mag as a backup if the primary fails
2. police, who many times work in pairs, have high capacity mags and backup mags. If I face a threat, it will most likely be alone, and I will likely be outnumbered.
3. It's not that much of a burden since my holster was designed for it. It actually widens the shape that may appear where my gun is, which makes it more difficult to see


My more paranoid response is that SHTF can happen anytime. All it takes is a bomb going off somewhere, a few white cops beat up a "minority", country-wide power failure (its actually way more likely that you think), or any stupid excuse a bunch of animals need to riot. If something like the LA riots were to happen here, I would definately want more than 15 rounds.

I try to always have more of something than I need, since I can't predict the future. Any good Eagle Scout who CCW will probably carry an extra mag, a flashlight, OC and a knife anywhere. :supergrin:

[The-Fly]

While its not likely most ccw'ers will ever need an extra mag, you can always ask the guys in the Hollywood shootout, or the Miami shootout, or anyone unlucky enough to get caught up in the LA riots if they thought an extra mag was a waste or not.

[Usingmyrights]

Originally posted by stangyg123
It's more than just needing a spare for reloading, having a spare magazine eliminates the problems associated with a primary magazine malfunction.

If you feel comfortable not carrying a spare that is fine, personally I do not feel comfortable unless I am. Each to his own. :)

I'm probably going to add another mag. My round count will be up to 20 then. Probably going to couple it with a E2E.

[madizzy]

Originally posted by uhlawpup
My lifestyle is such that an extra magazine is not reasonably necessary for me.

I do have to admit, though, I am curious about the scenario above. (I dislike scenarios, but, nevertheless...) I am trying to figure out how two extra magazines and my one pistol are going to stave off a team of armed robbers.
duh, you toss a spare mag to the other side of the bank as a diversionary tactic, and then hit the bad guys with throwing stars. (always carry back up throwing stars)

[adamsesq]

I already stated that I think an extra mag (or two) is a good idea as I do think that the S could HTF anytime. Just food for thought, I am thinking about throwing an extra box or two of my carry ammo in the vehicles just in case. They can either be in the safe at home, or out where the could be helpful. Just food for thought.

-Scott

[Bren]

I agree. The police caried 18 rounds for their 6 shot revolvers for a long, long time. Yes, the "ougunned" claim was one of the reasons for going to semi-autos, but (a) CCWers are not the police and don't have to go looking for trouble and (b) "outgunned" was largely a myth, based on some rare cases.

[Bren]

Originally posted by The-Fly
While its not likely most ccw'ers will ever need an extra mag, you can always ask the guys in the Hollywood shootout, or the Miami shootout, or anyone unlucky enough to get caught up in the LA riots if they thought an extra mag was a waste or not.
The LA riots were not a CCW handgun situation, since you should have been at home with ALL you guns and mags during it. The other 2 examples are police shootings - they don't really apply to a CCWers need to get away from the danger. If the police had only needed to save themselves, rather than arrest the bad guys, probably neither of those shootings would have required a reload (probably wouldn't have needed to shoot).

[Glockdude1]

http://www.andrewsleather.com/
http://www.andrewsleather.com/stroud.jpg

And you THINK 1 extra mag is heavy?

:animlol:

[cjlandry]

I've never understood the problem people have with a little weight on their belt.

With a good belt, you don't even notice it. I carry two spare mags. I had a total of 46 rounds when I was carrying my G22. Now I have a total of 22 rounds with my 1911.

There were times when I didn't carry spare mags with my Glock, because I sometimes wore a tucked in shirt. With the 1911, the mags are much thinner and aren't bulky in my back pocket if I wear a tucked shirt.

So I just don't see any reason not to carry a spare magazine or two.

[RussP]

Originally posted by Usingmyrights
I'm probably going to add another mag. My round count will be up to 20 then. Probably going to couple it with a E2E. The E2e is a good addition.

[DarrellF]

2 words. Wyatt Protocol:
F A S T

Fight
Assess
Scan
TAC LOAD!

you need an extra mag for that :)

[Warp]

Trolling much??


Do what you want. It's [mostly] a free country.

More often than not, I choose to carry a spare mag.

[Bowie]

I carry an extra mag as well. My main reason is for the mag malfunction scenario. I carry an HK USPc, that one extra mag doesn't make any weight difference to me.

[Philipp2]

If you have the extra room, I think that an extra G17 would be more useful. :hugs:
No reloading, just draw the second one while the BGs think that you are empty.:thumbsup:

[lastevolution]

Please, think of the children and carry an extra mag! :supergrin:

[Q-01]

Originally posted by stangyg123
It's more than just needing a spare for reloading, having a spare magazine eliminates the problems associated with a primary magazine malfunction.

If you feel comfortable not carrying a spare that is fine, personally I do not feel comfortable unless I am. Each to his own. :)

+1

And! One, if not THE most common malfunctions with an autoloader IS...mag related. Carry an extra GOOD mag silly...you may not need the rounds, just the mag. If you need a hip replacement due to the extra weight, then stangy will pay the bill...

I always had a reserve shoot (para)...

Q

[Bravo6]

Ammo in a gunfight is like candy in grade school: If you haven't brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble!!!

[SilverState]

Carrying an extra mag can't hurt.

That said, I cannot honestly say that I always do.

The odds that I am going to have to use my Kobra Carry in self defense is slim. The odds that my Metalform round follower mags are going to malfunction at the precise time that I am using my pistol to defend myself is more slim. Similarly, the odds that I am going to need more than 8 rounds of Double Tap .45acp at the precise time that I am using my pistol to defend myself is very slim.

Sooo, if you want to be extremely precautious, carry the extra mag. I not, don't. It's like wearing two (quality) rubbers...

:2gun:

[JimmyMN]

:deadhorse:

[BEER]

as the saying goes, "i'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

[Q-01]

I hear ya!

Count on statistics to be in your favor...not me.

2 is one and one is none...

Suit yourself...

[TheGlock23Guy]

Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake
1. When in real life has a CHLer had to reload?
-not that I want to be the first to find out, but, I read many
accounts of people using deadly force, but a reload wasn't done

2. Mags tend to be heavy.

3. If you are forced to use your weapon to defend your life...
it might be hard to explain, to a jury of laymen, why you have 34 rounds of 9mm JHPs just to walk yer dog.

4. I have a G17 so one mag = 17 rounds.

Here i fixed it for you!

1) When there are more than a couple of BG's armed and your in a gunfight, That would probably be 1 scenario!

2) If mags are heavy then you need to go workout!

3)I'd rather explain it to 12 then be carried by 6!

4)17 rounds is a good number but what if there's 6 armed guys trying to get your number? What if you have a magazine malfunction?

[DGallandro]

If you have the extra room, I think that an extra G17 would be more useful.


Ah, the famous "New York Reload," made popular by Jim Cirillo of the NYPD Stakeout Squad.

While I'm a fan, I'd rather just carry a spare mag. Sometimes I get crazy and carry a G18 mag as my spare, because I figure if I gotta go to my SPARE mag, I'm in a world of SHTF and will probably need a whole lotta bullets.:supergrin:

If I could just figure out a way to carry it comfortably.

DG

[DParker]

One word:

ZOMBIES!

[gunman_23]

Oh lord...not this crap again.

You know what. Im not even going to bother bringing up the solid benifits of having a solid mag.

Im not going to bring up malfunctions or God forbid, multiple attackers.

All Im saying is go ahead, play with fate, its your life.


Darwin called. A table is waiting for you.
:thumbsup:

[Douglas in CT]

Originally posted by GlocksterPaulie
Murphy's law seems to be a big part of my life, that is one of my reasons for a spare mag.

Paulie

And, Murphy was an OPTIMIST. :shocked:

[Rusty Phillips]

Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake
1. When in real life has a CHLer had to reload?
-not that I want to be the first to find out, but, I read many
accounts of people using deadly force, but a reload wasn't done


but just with regard to reloads....

Off duty Ogden PD Officer Hammond was armed with a single stack 1911 (w/ no spare mags) in the recent Trolley Square Mall incident, engaged the 18 year old Muslim terrorist Sulejman Talovic (who was armed with pump shotgun and 38 spl revolver & a backpack full of ammo).

If the responding Salt Lake City officers had not entered as soon as they did the situation could have ended far differently for Officer Hammond, and his pregnant wife might be a widow, and their child without a father.

Of course you might ask if a higher cap weapon (13 shot 45 / 15 shot 40 / or 17 shot 9mm) would have made a difference?

I am of the opinion that one = none, two = one, and three = two.

if nothing else - a spare mag is useful is you have a weapon malfunction.

[madizzy]

so you're taking a real life example, flipping the outcome, and using that as a reason to carry a spare mag?
:headscratch:
sorry, but not the best argument imho. way too many "what if's". if anything, that mall incident could be an argument as to why you would not need to carry an extra. if he didn't have one (which i wasn't aware of) but not having one didn't play into the outcome.

i've never carried a spare mag, but then again i don't carry a lot of the things that some posters on her do (mace, flashlight, etc) so to each their own, i guess. but i also agree that the chances of needing a 2nd mag are very, very minimal. probably more useful tools that could be carried and maybe actually used...like a backup bologna sandwich. i get hungry when i'm in the mall sometimes.

[DoubleDog]

So don't carry a spare mag...No skin off my chin...

Your carry choice isn't going to influence the carrying habits of anyone here, anyway...

DD~

[Bill Lumberg]

CCWers are most likely to live their whole life and never need their weapon. Needing an extra mag is probably not going to happen from a number-of-rounds perspective. Extra mags are useful because they are the quickest way to fix some common weapon malfuntions. I don't always carry an extra mag off duty, but I always have one in my bag and in the vehicle.

[Daps]

Originally posted by uhlawpup
My lifestyle is such that an extra magazine is not reasonably necessary for me.

I do have to admit, though, I am curious about the scenario above. (I dislike scenarios, but, nevertheless...) I am trying to figure out how two extra magazines and my one pistol are going to stave off a team of armed robbers.
I was thinking the same thing but decided to scroll down before posting. In this situation you're probably on the ground, you may get lucky and get one but a team game over

[Daps]

Sometimes I carry an extra somes I dont. But the main reason is because I CAN. Pros and well can't really think of any cons unless you count a little extra weight but still it's your choce

[jeb_ingram]

Do you think "Oh I wont get a flat today, better take the spare out of the car."

Its better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

[adamsesq]

Originally posted by jeb_ingram
Do you think "Oh I wont get a flat today, better take the spare out of the car."

Its better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.
This was an analogy I thought of too. And when I am going into a particularly rough section of road I carry TWO spares, just like I carry to weapons/mags when I go into a particularly rough area of town.

-Scott

[TheGlock23Guy]

Originally posted by madizzy
so you're taking a real life example, flipping the outcome, and using that as a reason to carry a spare mag?
:headscratch:
sorry, but not the best argument imho. way too many "what if's". if anything, that mall incident could be an argument as to why you would not need to carry an extra. if he didn't have one (which i wasn't aware of) but not having one didn't play into the outcome.

i've never carried a spare mag, but then again i don't carry a lot of the things that some posters on her do (mace, flashlight, etc) so to each their own, i guess. but i also agree that the chances of needing a 2nd mag are very, very minimal. probably more useful tools that could be carried and maybe actually used...like a backup bologna sandwich. i get hungry when i'm in the mall sometimes. Do you have a spare tire in your car? I mean whats the point of having a spare right especially if the chances are nill that it will be used or needed!

[stooxie]

Originally posted by degoodman
-You may need more ammunition. Considering that real on-street hit rates are around 20%, your 18 rounds in a G17 statistically will end up with about 3 or 4 on target. That's enough hits for about 1 BG. What if there's more?


Ok, this is the only thing that is a bit crazy in this thread.

Maybe a LEO can get away with 3 or 4 on target and 15 in the innocent bystanders, but no average citizen would get away with that!

:shocked:

Carry a spare mag, fine, but you better mind all those shots!

-Stooxie

[Rusty Phillips]

Originally posted by madizzy
so you're taking a real life example, flipping the outcome, and using that as a reason to carry a spare mag?
:headscratch:
sorry, but not the best argument imho. way too many "what if's". if anything, that mall incident could be an argument as to why you would not need to carry an extra. if he didn't have one (which i wasn't aware of) but not having one didn't play into the outcome.

i've never carried a spare mag, but then again i don't carry a lot of the things that some posters on her do (mace, flashlight, etc) so to each their own, i guess. but i also agree that the chances of needing a 2nd mag are very, very minimal. probably more useful tools that could be carried and maybe actually used...like a backup bologna sandwich. i get hungry when i'm in the mall sometimes.

even after the Trolley Square Mall terrorist shooting incident you do not see the need to carry more ammo?

oh well, you are ahead of the curve from the get-go if you are packing in the first place, and it is a free country, so you can do as you wish......

but if we are ever at the mall together and anything happens, dont be asking me for one of my spare mags.


http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5248200

Police lay out timeline of shooting
Record shows cops made efficient use of time, ammunition in keeping casualties to a minimum


Kenneth Hammond, an off-duty Ogden police officer, and his wife, Sarita, had just finished dining when they heard shots in a corridor in the mall. Kenneth sent Sarita, a police dispatcher, to take cover and call 911. He then went in search of the gunman, Miller said.
Hammond was armed with a .45-caliber Kimber automatic handgun that holds eight rounds. He carried no extra ammunition. The shooter had a shotgun and plenty of ammunition.


Hammond shot sparingly, keeping Talovic pinned down at the Pottery Barn Kids store, Miller said, hoping police would arrive before he ran out of ammunition.

[Wheel Doctor]

Being a former Naval Aircrewman (Navigator/Radar Operator) I really like Russ's example.

I doubt that my Glock will malfunction, but being a believer in the supremecy of Murphy I just can't take that chance. Even when just out for a jog or bike I take a spare mag for my P3AT especially since the reliability of this lil' bug is sometimes questionable. No malfunctions so far but it is not a Glock. I don't know how many times I have seen a shooter going thru a stage half way thru a mutiple threat string on the move and oops a jam. Probably dead meat, but surely dead without a back up mag. I get to say to them "I have a dishwasher safe gun, It always goes bang" This is cause I always get poop from my "classic" gun totin' friends.

[Glockwork Orange]

Originally posted by madizzy
duh, you toss a spare mag to the other side of the bank as a diversionary tactic, and then hit the bad guys with throwing stars. (always carry back up throwing stars)


I've heard that...:supergrin:

[Jason D]

I usually carry an extra magazine with me wherever I go. When I travel, I usually bring three extra.


I would rather have it, then need it.

[RickJZ]

one should always err on the side of caution and carry an additional magazine. I usually carry two spares. IMHO, it is rather short-sighted to not have an extra mag handy.

[madizzy]

Originally posted by TheGlock23Guy
Do you have a spare tire in your car? I mean whats the point of having a spare right especially if the chances are nill that it will be used or needed!
run the stats on # of spare tires used per day vs. the # of 2nd mags used per day by a civilian...then come back and try that argument again.

personally, i've had about 4 flat tires in my 20 years of driving. however, never needed a 2nd mag (never needed a 1st one, thankfully)

do as you want, but that argument is apples and coconuts

[madizzy]

Originally posted by Rusty Phillips
even after the Trolley Square Mall terrorist shooting incident you do not see the need to carry more ammo?

oh well, you are ahead of the curve from the get-go if you are packing in the first place, and it is a free country, so you can do as you wish......

but if we are ever at the mall together and anything happens, dont be asking me for one of my spare mags. but you're talking about a LEO in the story, right?. if i was a cop, yeah, i'd have a back up (probably 2) but they are more likely to jump into trouble on duty or off. you go looking for a shootout if you want, but i'm not. if my family isn't involved, i'm outta there. i carry for "self" defense, not to save the world.

i'm not a cowboy and i'm not afraid to admit it. i've got a wife and 2 kids to come home to at night...which is the main reason that i didn't go the LEO route.

[KalashnakovKids]

Sorry guys but IMHO there just is no practical reason(for myself anyways) to carry 26 or 39 extra bullets for my G23 as it holds 13+1 and im just a joe blow civilian with moderate situational awareness. Time spent arguing this issue could be spent at the range making the first 13 shots count as opposed to the "spray and pray" approach.

[madizzy]

well, everyone knows that we are better shots up here in Maine...

:cheers:

[fludy12]

Originally posted by uhlawpup
(I dislike scenarios, but, nevertheless...)

Why do you dislike scenarios? It's a heavily used tool in flight instruction. Flight instructors see what a student would do in the cockpit during emergencies that are not safe to perform in actual flight... After all, any "flight" in a simulator is a scenario and that student just might get a dual engine failure. :quiet: :supergrin:

Do you also disagree with FOF drills? Those are scenarios, too...

[Bren]

Originally posted by jeb_ingram
Do you think "Oh I wont get a flat today, better take the spare out of the car."

Its better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.
That is a good example, your car has 4 tires and all of them could go flat (more than once, even). However, most people only carry one spare, unless they are going into a situation where a flat is likely. The reason is that needing a spare is very unlikely and needing more than one is very, very unlikely. Therefore, it is most practical to carry the one and not load you car down with 4 spares, since you may need that space to carry other stuff. If you had a friend so paranoid about flats that he insisted on have a trunk full of spares, you'd think he was nuts - same is true of all those extra mags. With a 6-shot .380, I carry a spare, but with an 18 shot 9mm, I don't.

[degoodman]

Originally posted by stooxie
Ok, this is the only thing that is a bit crazy in this thread.

Maybe a LEO can get away with 3 or 4 on target and 15 in the innocent bystanders, but no average citizen would get away with that!

:shocked:

Carry a spare mag, fine, but you better mind all those shots!

-Stooxie

You're responsible for every shot that leaves the gun, sure enough. And if those misses hit non-participants in the fight, you're on the hook for them. However, statistically, they are likely to be just misses.

20% is the realistic on street hit rate across all shootings. According to more than one instructor the rates are improving, but the improvement is more like from what it used to be (10% - 12%) to what it is now (20% - 22%). I know that everyone here is convinced that they'll be in the one shot one kill crowd from the old westerns, but it just don't happen that way. The good guys are moving, the bad guys are moving, and bullets are flying both ways. That ends up as alot of missing.

And if you background is filled with innocents, you need to very carefully consider whether to take the shot. However, even in the most crowded places, you have better angles of engagement than you think you might. But you still need to mind that background.

[EricS76]

I don't carry spares. Only a speed strip when i'm in the city with my 642. Not with my G26 or 1911. I'm screwed if 5 machine gun carrying ninjas decide to attack me all at one time. I just have to live with that.

[SilverState]

I guess the real question is whether or not we ALWAYS carry spare mags...HONESTLY.

In theory, yeah, it is better to be more prepared. But the fact that we carry a CCW means we are more prepared than most people. I mean we could wear body armor all the time to be more prepared, but how many civilians do that?

My car came with runflats. I swapped them for Goodyear F1s for the better performance. The car did not come with a spare. I still don't have a spare. I do have BMW assist however (like on-star). That being said, if was travelling cross-country, I would carry a spare. Similarly, if I was walking the streets of the ghetto, I would carry an extra mag, or maybe a BUG, but for the rest of the time, I don't. And that's being honest.

[Apprentice_941]

It also depends on where you are. In California, you're limited to 10 round magazines. So from that perspective:

Having two (2) spare, 9 or 10 round magazines readily available seems reasonable to me:

The one 9/10 round magazine that's already in your gun is used for turning the tide of the conflict in your favor, or at least evening the odds.

The remaining two are to get yourself to safety. And should your adversary be a gang, and you are alone, if they have any kind of tactical advantage over you (such as a vehicle when you're on foot, etc) they will likely decide to launch a second offensive after they've had time to re-group. So that second and third magazine starts to feel like a really good idea by now.

BTW, Having the availability to have loaded spare magazines on a gun as realiable as the glock is one of the main reasons I went with it over a S&W revolver.

It seems like a waisted opportunity to have a Glock (especially the baby Glocks with their compact mags) and not carry at least a spare.

[TheGlock23Guy]

Originally posted by madizzy
run the stats on # of spare tires used per day vs. the # of 2nd mags used per day by a civilian...then come back and try that argument again.

personally, i've had about 4 flat tires in my 20 years of driving. however, never needed a 2nd mag (never needed a 1st one, thankfully)

do as you want, but that argument is apples and coconuts Not hardly if you had half a brain you would see the point here was it's better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it!

[MrMurphy]

I was in a situation as a CCWer where if it had gone to shooting (almost did) the spare would have meant probable survival.


Weight is nothing, i routinely carry 50lbs of gear at work, including 200+ rounds of ammo and a rifle.


Spares are good. Everything breaks when you need it most. Trust me on that....

[madizzy]

Originally posted by TheGlock23Guy
Not hardly if you had half a brain you would see the point here was it's better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it!
ouch!!! a little testy that i pointed out how god awful your comparison was? (and it really was awful)

what else do you carry a spare of? underwear? secret decoder ring?

keep loading up, mall ninja!!!!

[XNYTRUCKIE]

I just happen to read an article by Massad Ayoob in handgunner about a citisen who who intervined and used his lawfully carried CCW handgun to stop a crime , but was killed because he ran out of bullets(only 1 mag).. since then yes I carry a extra mag for my G26 and am lloinkg to a good single mag holder for my belt as i always stick it in my back pocket ..

[hankthetank]

I'm all about carrying my gun 24/7 but I'm a big guy...6' 5" and 285lbs. Carrying all that stuff on my belt would get pretty annoying. I carry my XD 9 in a comp-tac Infidel and I also have to carry my badge. How do some of you guys carry and extra mag and a flashlight comfortably especially in the summer????

[Warp]

Originally posted by hankthetank
I'm all about carrying my gun 24/7 but I'm a big guy...6' 5" and 285lbs. Carrying all that stuff on my belt would get pretty annoying. I carry my XD 9 in a comp-tac Infidel and I also have to carry my badge. How do some of you guys carry and extra mag and a flashlight comfortably especially in the summer????

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=328110&highlight=what+daily+carry


I virtually never wear shorts, even when it's 100* outside. I carry, when wearing jeans:

G26 IWB 4:00 in C-TAC
2oz Fox Labs OC, upside down, left front pocket
Inova X1 next to OC in left front pocket
Cell phone, right front pocket
Keys clipped to belt loop with carabiner (sp??) hanging partly into right front pocket. As soon as it returns I will put my Fenix P1 back ont he key ring.
Gerber AR3.00 clipped in right front pocket
lighter or spare light batteries in right front watch pocket
wallet right rear pocket
I get carpenter jeans that have a specific pocket on the right leg, outside thigh. My Surefire G2 fits in there perfectly where CANNOT fall out, but is pretty easy to pull out. It is a two part pocket, also containing a Spyderco Delica in the top portion

Sometimes (maybe 50%) carry a spare G19 magazine on ankle in Desantis holster. It can take two mags, but I feel okay with one spare and the weight/bulk is better that way. Sometimes put a multi tool there in the other spare mag slot.

If I am wearing kakis or 5.11 tactical pants I usually dump the Inova X1, lighter/batteries, and Gerber knife.


This picture is old. I stopped carrying pens and the long thin light in the jeans because they always fall out. Fenix P1 not pictured.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/EDCAug06smaller.jpg


This is the pocket with the Surefire and Spyderco.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/EDConmyperson002.jpg

[Mas Ayoob]

Originally posted by degoodman


The decision to carry extra ammunition is a very personal one, and should be made based on a realistic assessment of risks. There are benefits and drawbacks with either choice.

In favor of carrying extra magazines.

-You may need more ammunition. Considering that real on-street hit rates are around 20%, your 18 rounds in a G17 statistically will end up with about 3 or 4 on target. That's enough hits for about 1 BG. What if there's more?

-The single most likely component to cause a feed realted jam in a semi-auto is the magazine. The best solution to a mag related problem is to get a new mag in there.

-Magazines get lost or dropped from pistols under combat conditions. inadvertantly pressed mag release, a fight for the gun that trips the magazine, etc, or the infamous "speed unload" where a magazine floorplate comes off leaving ammo all over the place, usually when a full mag hits the ground hard. without more magazines, you're screwed.

-From a carry perspective, extra magazines help to balance and offset the weight of the pistol on the belt. This helps to prevent stress related back and hip injuries.

Arguments against carrying additional magazines include

-It is HIGHLY unlikely that a civilian delf defense incident will require a reload for a successful outcome.

- To be useful, extra magazines should be carried in proper mag carriers, adding width to the shooter's belt and further complexifying concealment. Pocket carried mags are slow to access, collect lint and other trash, and are seldom in the proper orientation for a smooth draw and presentation.

-In a situation where the shooter is vastly outnumbered, extra ammunition is not all that helpful. You need to be running not staying in a fight against those kind of odds. NOONE is fast enough to outdraw and engage 3+ adversaries without taking gunfire in the process.

-Extra magazines are more weight and more bulk, and weight and bulk can discourage everyday carry.

Of all the reasons to not carry an extra mag, how it will look in front of a jury is the least of your worries. Expert testimony from ANY competent instructor will defuse that argument instantaneously. Police carry at least 2 magazines on their belt, and you're carrying that many or less.

I often carry an extra mag for my G23, but I often don't too. Is it possible that I'll need 15, instead of the 14 I have, yes, but the possibility is remote. Many CCW carriers carry a 5 shot revolver as their carry piece, and I'm already two reloads ahead of them.

So carry an extra mag, or don't. The odds of needing it are small, but if you find yourself in those small odds you'll need it really badly.

What DeGoodMan said.:thumbsup:

Insofar as liability elements: yes, opposing counsel may try to make you look paranoid for carrying extra ammo. Guess what: they're going to try to make you look paranoid for carrying the damn GUN. You can defend the spare ammo every bit as easily as the gun itself, and DeGoodMan's excellent post shows you how.

Personally, I always carry at least one full reload as spare, and strongly suggest that readers and students do so as well.

A gun without spare ammo is a temporary gun.

[DGallandro]

underwear? secret decoder ring?


And throwing stars. Must carry spare throwing stars.


keep loading up, mall ninja!!!!


Woohoo! :mallninja:

I don't have a hernia yet. I need a few more spare magazines, a spare Ninja-To, a spare set of extra-heavy-duty Climbing Spikes, a spare Stainless Steel "Li'l Ninja" Tri-Folding Grappling Hook And Extra Long Weed Puller (Powder coated so it doesn't glint off the flourescent lighting), and my lead-lined skullcap so the government mind control scaler waves can't get me! My spare underwear is so that I will have on clean underwear AFTER contact with "the enemy". The spare secret decoder ring is so that I can speed-decode my pinkslip from the Mall for losing the first one. It's a security breach, you know. Top Secret Stuff. Very Hush-Hush. Destroy this Post after you Read It. I REALLY shouldn't be talking about it at all. Uh oh. Message coming in...

...Oh yeah. And a spare snickers bar. Gotta keep up my energy for long-winded justifications. Nachos are for heroes.

Ah. The message is decoded. I have to check the men's room because they're having a toilet paper theft prob...er...I mean, there's nefarious criminal activites occurring in the Men's Lavatories and I alone, due to my extensive experience in such things, have been assigned to handle it singlehandedly.

:mallninja:


DG

[speedlace]

Originally posted by XNYTRUCKIE
I just happen to read an article by Massad Ayoob in handgunner about a citisen who who intervined and used his lawfully carried CCW handgun to stop a crime , but was killed because he ran out of bullets(only 1 mag).. since then yes I carry a extra mag for my G26 and am lloinkg to a good single mag holder for my belt as i always stick it in my back pocket ..

Do you have a link to that article??

[SilverState]

Originally posted by Warp
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/EDCAug06smaller.jpg

That's a lot of stuff. I wonder if I would print wearing an Armani suit (especially when I take my jacket off).

I think I will just carry one or both of these instead:

http://sincitypitbulls.freeservers.com/Kobral.JPG

http://sincitypitbulls.freeservers.com/KelTec32PocketL.JPG

[EricS76]

Originally posted by XNYTRUCKIE
I just happen to read an article by Massad Ayoob in handgunner about a citisen who who intervined and used his lawfully carried CCW handgun to stop a crime , but was killed because he ran out of bullets(only 1 mag).. since then yes I carry a extra mag for my G26 and am lloinkg to a good single mag holder for my belt as i always stick it in my back pocket ..

I'm just guessing, but I bet he was killed because he was hit by a round or many rounds. People don't automatically die from running out of bullets. Without knowing the whole story, It's hard to say if a reload would have helped him. Doesn't matter if you have 5 spares if you're hit with the first round the BG fires.

[Warp]

Originally posted by EricS76
People don't automatically die from running out of bullets.

How many bullets you have does not matter. Now, how many rounds/cartridges you have, yeah, that matters. :tongueout:


Your chances of surviving a lethal force encounter definately fall when you run out of ammo.

[aaronrkelly]

I wonder if Jim Zumbo carries an extra magazine?

[Blitzer]

Originally posted by speedlace
Do you have a link to that article??

Just read Mas's post in this thread. :supergrin: ;)

[XNYTRUCKIE]

Originally posted by EricS76
I'm just guessing, but I bet he was killed because he was hit by a round or many rounds. People don't automatically die from running out of bullets. Without knowing the whole story, It's hard to say if a reload would have helped him. Doesn't matter if you have 5 spares if you're hit with the first round the BG fires.

Actually he shot the bad guy then without any more mags tried to retreat when the BG shot him.. (turned out the bg was wearing a vest). but if had more ammo I think he wouldnt have tried to retreat and would have stood his ground and finished off the perp.


I dont have a link I read it it in the print edition while in deep thought in my private office in my home(toilet) lol

[Mas Ayoob]

If the case in question is the one I'm thinking of, the good guy had only what was in the gun, no spare ammo. His fire seriously wounded two of 3 BGs, he ran dry and fled, came under fire, was wounded twice (head and leg) but survived. Last I knew, he was carrying a 10mm and spare magazine.

[Glock 23:43]

Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake


An extra mag? - No thanks.

Two extra mags? - That's what I carry.

For me, it's sort of like American Express - don't leave home without 'em.

[Droanx]

Originally posted by aaronrkelly
I wonder if Jim Zumbo carries an extra magazine?


:rofl: :rofl:

I know what he doesn't carry now......anything Remington.

[happyguy]

Originally posted by EricS76
People don't automatically die from running out of bullets.

1. That is a correct statement.

2. They ususally die from absorbing too many bullets.

3. Having enough bullets of your own to do the job can sometimes prevent #2.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

[SilverState]

I have to admit, today, I am going to the ghetto to talk to some current or ex-gang members or associates (for work, don't ask). I am carrying a Milt Sparks mag holder with an extra Metalform mag (full of Double Tap) and I am carrying a BUG on my ankle in addition to my ccw pistol.

But normally, no.

:2gun:

[happyguy]

Originally posted by Warp
http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=328110&highlight=what+daily+carry


I virtually never wear shorts, even when it's 100* outside. I carry, when wearing jeans:

G26 IWB 4:00 in C-TAC
2oz Fox Labs OC, upside down, left front pocket
Inova X1 next to OC in left front pocket
Cell phone, right front pocket
Keys clipped to belt loop with carabiner (sp??) hanging partly into right front pocket. As soon as it returns I will put my Fenix P1 back ont he key ring.
Gerber AR3.00 clipped in right front pocket
lighter or spare light batteries in right front watch pocket
wallet right rear pocket
I get carpenter jeans that have a specific pocket on the right leg, outside thigh. My Surefire G2 fits in there perfectly where CANNOT fall out, but is pretty easy to pull out. It is a two part pocket, also containing a Spyderco Delica in the top portion

Sometimes (maybe 50%) carry a spare G19 magazine on ankle in Desantis holster. It can take two mags, but I feel okay with one spare and the weight/bulk is better that way. Sometimes put a multi tool there in the other spare mag slot.

If I am wearing kakis or 5.11 tactical pants I usually dump the Inova X1, lighter/batteries, and Gerber knife.


This picture is old. I stopped carrying pens and the long thin light in the jeans because they always fall out. Fenix P1 not pictured.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/EDCAug06smaller.jpg


This is the pocket with the Surefire and Spyderco.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/EDConmyperson002.jpg

I'd say you are good to go, but if you spend much time around water I'd suggest an inflatable vest. Treading water ain't going to work for ****e with all that stuff on you.

Edited to add: ****e, I hate that filter. :tongueout:

Regards,
Happyguy :)

[Justin Rempe]

Originally posted by happyguy
1. It has happened. If it happens to you you won't be the first.

2. So are coffins and regrets.

3. If the shooting is justified there won't be anything else to explain. If you run out of ammo you won't be explaining anything to anybody.

4. Not everyone carries a weapon that holds 17+1 rounds.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

My Wilson only carries 8+1 :thumbsup: I hope I don't have to use more than 9, but if I do, I'll be ready.

[Pima Pants]

The reality here is that WE understand why carrying an extra mag is important but a jury of sheeple won't. The general public mindset is that nobody NEEDS an "assault weapon"; nobody NEEDS a large capacity magazine and nobody should NEED a spare magazine. The sheeple will believe you got your CCW permit because you were somehow paranoid or wanted to be macho. They can't relate to the daily carrying of a gun because none of them NEED to.

Your attorney will not have sufficient time to educate the jury nor will the sheeple pay attention. Your attorney will be trying to change their lifelong mindset. Good luck.

Carrying a large amount of ammunition, several magazines, pepper spray, kubuton, tactical knives, GPS unit, etc. when involved in a shooting event ain't gonna play well to a jury.

Personally, I carry most of the above, knowing it will look bad to a jury. I guess that's just the price I'll pay.

Ken

[Pima Pants]

Maybe just one last thought on this subject.

Since the odds of the average citizen (me) are astronomically high against ever being involved in a self-defense shooting, why not carry as much ammo and other items as I want? If the SHTF, then I have become one unlucky bas*ard and will need everything I've got. But chances are I will never even come close to needing my firearm.

Ken

[Warp]

Originally posted by happyguy
I'd say you are good to go, but if you spend much time around water I'd suggest an inflatable vest. Treading water ain't going to work for ****e with all that stuff on you.

Edited to add: ****e, I hate that filter. :tongueout:

Regards,
Happyguy :)

Compared to body weight, the stuff we carry weighs virtually nil. I am considered light at 165 lbs (6'0")....I don't think 3-4 pounds of gear will make much difference.

:)

[Speedrock]

"1. When in real life has a CHLer had to reload?"

Monolithic Deduction?

Having a 2nd magazine ready to "Draw", serves more than one purpose! Consider: "equipment failure", as in magazine #1, perhaps?

[madizzy]

Originally posted by Speedrock
"1. When in real life has a CHLer had to reload?"

Monolithic Deduction?

Having a 2nd magazine ready to "Draw", serves more than one purpose! Consider: "equipment failure", as in magazine #1, perhaps?
I've never had a mag fail. What happens?

[EricS76]

Originally posted by Speedrock
"1. When in real life has a CHLer had to reload?"

Monolithic Deduction?

Having a 2nd magazine ready to "Draw", serves more than one purpose! Consider: "equipment failure", as in magazine #1, perhaps?

Why not go a step farther and carry two guns? If a magazine can fail, the weapon can too. And why not carry 3 guns in case the first two fail?

[Warp]

Originally posted by EricS76
Why not go a step farther and carry two guns? If a magazine can fail, the weapon can too. And why not carry 3 guns in case the first two fail?

Good point, and that is part of why some people carry a BUG.

Each person's comfort zone is different. What you choose to carry is up to you.

[EricS76]

Originally posted by Warp
Each person's comfort zone is different. What you choose to carry is up to you.

That's probably the best statement in this thread. Because for all the things said here, I doubt anybody's mind is being changed either way. To each his own, and so on.

[stangyg123]

Originally posted by Q-01
+1

And! One, if not THE most common malfunctions with an autoloader IS...mag related. Carry an extra GOOD mag silly...you may not need the rounds, just the mag. If you need a hip replacement due to the extra weight, then stangy will pay the bill...



Sure. ;)

[9mmMick]

Most situations with civilians in the past drawing their
guns, shot around 4 at the most.
So I think your fine.
On that note, I carry 10 + 1, but it's 9mm and according to some people on this forum it's a whimpy round. :upeyes:

[aaronrkelly]

Originally posted by EricS76
That's probably the best statement in this thread. Because for all the things said here, I doubt anybody's mind is being changed either way. To each his own, and so on.

I wouldnt say that.

Your comment about carrying a second gun made me think....I have a KelTec P3AT that I bought just for this purpose and never bothered.

It will be in my cargo pocket tonight when I go to work, in addition to my G19. It weighs less then my car keys so why not?

Thanks for mentioning it.

[Oneiros]

Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake
1. When in real life has a CHLer had to reload?
-not that I want to be the first to find out, but, I read many
accounts of people using deadly force, but a reload wasn't done

2. Mags tend to be heavy.

3. If you are forced to use your weapon to defend your life...
it might be hard to explain, to a jury of laymen, why you have 34 rounds of 9mm JHPs just to walk yer dog.

4. I have a G17 so one mag = 17 rounds.

Have you ever been in an auto accident? Do you have car insurance?

Have you ever died? Do you have life insurance?

Too heavy? Wow, just wow. It's hard for me to accept that the weight of one spare magazine is even an issue worth mentioning.

It might be. It'll be harder to bring yourself back to life once you've ran out of ammo and are shot to death by multiple attackers, however.

I have a G17, but I carry my G26 most of the time. That's 12 rounds with the extension. I have to carry another mag just to reach the point one mag offers you.

Oh, and when I do carry my G17, all my mags have extensions and I carry 2 spares instead of one, as that's what my shoulder holster allows for.

I hope if I ever get in a gunfight it's with a bad guy that shares your nancyboy mentality.

[Pima Pants]

Originally posted by Oneiros

I hope if I ever get in a gunfight it's with a bad guy that shares your nancyboy mentality. [/B]

That's kind of "over the top" ain't it NOOB? Exactly how old are you? Someone who disagrees with you is a "nancyboy"? What kind of immature statement is that?

[adamsesq]

Originally posted by Oneiros
Too heavy? Wow, just wow. It's hard for me to accept that the weight of one spare magazine is even an issue worth mentioning.

Gotta agree with Oneiros here - if an extra mag is too heavy - loose some weight!

And it has not exactly changed my mind, but I now carry 2 extra mags instead of one and an extra 50-100 rounds in the car. Thanks for helping me see the wisdom in being prepared - the reason that I carry in the first place.

-Scott

[Justin Rempe]

Originally posted by madizzy
I've never had a mag fail. What happens?

If you're only carrying one, what typically happens is you get shot/stabbed/[insert nasty thoughts here]...

[madizzy]

Originally posted by Justin Rempe
If you're only carrying one, what typically happens is you get shot/stabbed/[insert nasty thoughts here]...
no, to the mag itself...how does one fail?

[Justin Rempe]

Originally posted by madizzy
no, to the mag itself...how does one fail?

Ahhh, my bad. I slightly misunderstood you.

Spring failures, dirt/grime, improper loading (yes, I've seen it before), incorrect ammo used...

It's more than likely going to be a mechanical failure (if the magazine is highly used), or due to improper care (dirt/grime).

[fludy12]

Originally posted by madizzy
no, to the mag itself...how does one fail?

It's mechanical, therefore it will eventually malfunction. Spring could break or fatigue. Followers crack and break. Dirt, grit, pocket lint, etc can slow the next round indexing up to the point of a failure to feed... Many things can go wrong. I remember reading once a guy carried a mag full of snap caps for over a week. :shocked: Not necessarily a magazine failure, but the magazine would NOT do what a loaded "live fire" magazine should do if needed.

[Justin Rempe]

Originally posted by fludy12
It's mechanical, therefore it will eventually malfunction. Spring could break or fatigue. Followers crack and break. Dirt, grit, pocket lint, etc can slow the next round indexing up to the point of a failure to feed... Many things can go wrong. I remember reading once a guy carried a mag full of snap caps for over a week. :shocked: Not necessarily a magazine failure, but the magazine would NOT do what a loaded "live fire" magazine should do if needed.

Now that would suck (and it would probably be the day I would need the spare mag)...

[Merkavaboy]

Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake
1. When in real life has a CHLer had to reload?
-not that I want to be the first to find out, but, I read many
accounts of people using deadly force, but a reload wasn't done

2. Mags tend to be heavy.

3. If you are forced to use your weapon to defend your life...
it might be hard to explain, to a jury of laymen, why you have 34 rounds of 9mm JHPs just to walk yer dog.

4. I have a G17 so one mag = 17 rounds.

Mas Ayoob recently wrote an article in which he outlines an incident in which a civilian CCW'er in, IIRC, Las Vegas, used his .357SIG caliber GLOCK to engage a gunman who had just killed a cop. The citizen CCW'er emptied his .357 GLOCK without neutralizing the cop-killer. The citizen had no spare magazine to continue engage the BG and had to flee. This was a real-world incident in which a CCW'er who had at least one spare reload may have been able to make a difference in bringing down a cop-killer before he was able to continue his rampage.

I'll try and hunt down the exact magazine and article in which this info appeared and post it when I find it.

[EricS76]

Originally posted by Merkavaboy
Mas Ayoob recently wrote an article in which he outlines an incident in which a civilian CCW'er in, IIRC, Las Vegas, used his .357SIG caliber GLOCK to engage a gunman who had just killed a cop. The citizen CCW'er emptied his .357 GLOCK without neutralizing the cop-killer. The citizen had no spare magazine to continue engage the BG and had to flee. This was a real-world incident in which a CCW'er who had at least one spare reload may have been able to make a difference in bringing down a cop-killer before he was able to continue his rampage.

I'll try and hunt down the exact magazine and article in which this info appeared and post it when I find it.

If this guy couldn't neutralize the gunman with a minimum of 10 rounds(G33) and a maximum of 16 rounds(G31), then I'm not sure a spare mag would have helped. Maybe more time at the range is the answer there. Spray and pray is no replacement for accuracy. I read a Mas Ayoob article a while back where he was talking about how a CCW'er is responsible for every bullet fired from his weapon. Talking about hitting by-standers, other's property, and so on. The idea was accuracy over quantity. All you "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6", feel free to jump in now.

[Pima Pants]

I agree. If he couldn't hit him with 10 rounds, he did well to run away. A spare magazine may just have put others at risk.

[Warp]

Originally posted by EricS76
If this guy couldn't neutralize the gunman with a minimum of 10 rounds(G33) and a maximum of 16 rounds(G31), then I'm not sure a spare mag would have helped. Maybe more time at the range is the answer there. Spray and pray is no replacement for accuracy. I read a Mas Ayoob article a while back where he was talking about how a CCW'er is responsible for every bullet fired from his weapon. Talking about hitting by-standers, other's property, and so on. The idea was accuracy over quantity. All you "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6", feel free to jump in now.

Average hit rate is, what, 20%? Even if this guy did double that, 40% hit rate for a total of four hits there are well documented cases where four handgun rounds (even .45 ACP)...all to the torso of an attacker have failed to stop them.

In this guy's situation more ammo certainly seems as though it would be usefull.

At any rate, it certainly goes to show that a CCW holder may indeed find the need to have a spare magazine.

[Lykoi]

even if my mag fails i have one shot that is gauranteed to go off...
one shot will stop a fight. If placed correctly.

whatever your choice is, (mine being 7+1 in gun and a spare in a cell phone case on my hip) PRACTICE WITH IT.

the only reason for a mag to fail is abuse or misuse.
I switch carry mags daily. Rotating the 7 i have weekly.
They are all tested at range etc on a regular basis.


practice Tap/Rack/Bang drills, practice 1 shot quick-draw shot placement drills... make your choice comfortable.


I beleive that i have the right to carry 4000 rounds if i feel the need, i carry 15 most days with my Glock i carry 31... I don't feel like i'm in more danger with 31 than 15.

my only concern with single mag carry is this, mag release is pressed while your in car/transition/seat.... mag drops and you don't notice... you need weapon, and you draw and fire only to have slide lock back and nothing to "tap" "rerack" and no more "bang"... carrying the spare means a reload IS possible, however unlikely.

[Merkavaboy]

Originally posted by Merkavaboy
Mas Ayoob recently wrote an article in which he outlines an incident in which a civilian CCW'er in, IIRC, Las Vegas, used his .357SIG caliber GLOCK to engage a gunman who had just killed a cop. The citizen CCW'er emptied his .357 GLOCK without neutralizing the cop-killer. The citizen had no spare magazine to continue engage the BG and had to flee. This was a real-world incident in which a CCW'er who had at least one spare reload may have been able to make a difference in bringing down a cop-killer before he was able to continue his rampage.

I'll try and hunt down the exact magazine and article in which this info appeared and post it when I find it.

American Handgunner
March/April 2007

Ayoob Files
Armed Citizen Shootings: The Chris Bird Collection

Incident occ'd in Phoenix, AZ., on March 26, 1999. Rory Vertigan was armed with his G31 loaded with 14 rounds of .357SIG ammo. During a patrol persuit, Vertigan was witness to the driver of a white Lincoln jump out and shoot into the persuing patrol unit with a .357 Magnum, killing the uniforned officer. Vertigan fired upon the cop killer and ran dry. The suspect ducked back into his car to reload and Vertigan charged up on the suspect and was met with the .357 pointed at Vertigan's face. The suspect pulled the trigger and it went "click". Vertigan physically removed the killer from his vehicle and held him until other police arrived. The suspect had reloaded his revolver with 3 live rounds but when he pulled the trigger on Vertigan it fell on an empty chamber. Later investigation showed that every round that Vertigan fired had struck the suspect's vehicle.

The above information came from a book entitled: Thank God I Had A Gun by Chris Bird. The Vertigan incident is only one of 14 incidents that is covered in Bird's book (available from: www.privateerpublications.com).

[Warp]

Originally posted by Lykoi
even if my mag fails i have one shot that is gauranteed to go off...
one shot will stop a fight. If placed correctly.

Ha.

Do you intend to make a head shot with your first shot with your lfie on the line, in any given situation?

Good luck with that.

Originally posted by Merkavaboy
American Handgunner
March/April 2007

Ayoob Files
Armed Citizen Shootings: The Chris Bird Collection

Incident occ'd in Phoenix, AZ., on March 26, 1999. Rory Vertigan was armed with his G31 loaded with 14 rounds of .357SIG ammo. During a patrol persuit, Vertigan was witness to the driver of a white Lincoln jump out and shoot into the persuing patrol unit with a .357 Magnum, killing the uniforned officer. Vertigan fired upon the cop killer and ran dry. The suspect ducked back into his car to reload and Vertigan charged up on the suspect and was met with the .357 pointed at Vertigan's face. The suspect pulled the trigger and it went "click". Vertigan physically removed the killer from his vehicle and held him until other police arrived. The suspect had reloaded his revolver with 3 live rounds but when he pulled the trigger on Vertigan it fell on an empty chamber. Later investigation showed that every round that Vertigan fired had struck the suspect's vehicle.

The above information came from a book entitled: Thank God I Had A Gun by Chris Bird. The Vertigan incident is only one of 14 incidents that is covered in Bird's book (available from: www.privateer-publications.com).


Real world example where spare mag could have made a life or death difference. Luckily the hammer dropped on an empty cylinder. :shocked:

[EricS76]

Originally posted by Merkavaboy
American Handgunner
March/April 2007

Ayoob Files
Armed Citizen Shootings: The Chris Bird Collection

Incident occ'd in Phoenix, AZ., on March 26, 1999. Rory Vertigan was armed with his G31 loaded with 14 rounds of .357SIG ammo. During a patrol persuit, Vertigan was witness to the driver of a white Lincoln jump out and shoot into the persuing patrol unit with a .357 Magnum, killing the uniforned officer. Vertigan fired upon the cop killer and ran dry. The suspect ducked back into his car to reload and Vertigan charged up on the suspect and was met with the .357 pointed at Vertigan's face. The suspect pulled the trigger and it went "click". Vertigan physically removed the killer from his vehicle and held him until other police arrived. The suspect had reloaded his revolver with 3 live rounds but when he pulled the trigger on Vertigan it fell on an empty chamber. Later investigation showed that every round that Vertigan fired had struck the suspect's vehicle.

The above information came from a book entitled: Thank God I Had A Gun by Chris Bird. The Vertigan incident is only one of 14 incidents that is covered in Bird's book (available from: www.privateer-publications.com).

More problems here than just not having a spare mag. The guy empties his gun into a car, then "charged up on the suspect"? With an empty gun?? An extra mag is not a substitute for not using your head. If he had a spare mag, who's to say he wouldn't have emptied it into the car door too?

[Warp]

Originally posted by EricS76
More problems here than just not having a spare mag. The guy empties his gun into a car, then "charged up on the suspect"? With an empty gun?? An extra mag is not a substitute for not using your head. If he had a spare mag, who's to say he wouldn't have emptied it into the car door too?

If you were in his situation, would you want a spare mag?

You can argue "what if this, what if that" all you want, but there is absolutely no valid reason not to want a spare mag in this situation. If you honestly would prefer to be out of ammo when facing an armed cop killer, you need to reconsider your sanity.

[Lykoi]

Originally posted by Warp
Ha.

Do you intend to make a head shot with your first shot with your lfie on the line, in any given situation?

Good luck with that.



i carry an extra mag... maybe if you read the entire post...

however, yes if neccessary i beleive i could. I wouldn't however rely on that, hence the spare mag. I was simlpy stating that unless you have a larger problem than a bad magazine you can rely on at least one shot... make it count, extra rounds are no substitute for accuracy... training is the only answer to malfunction.

[BigFameOne]

I VERY rarely carry a spare mag, although I do carry a Glock 17 with a Glock plus 2 so at 19 plus one in the chamber I think I am okay.

[culleniii]

My usual carry is a:

Kel-Tec P3AT with 7 rounds in it plus spare 6 round mag

and

Glock 33 with 10 rounds in it plus spare 15round mag

plus 3 more Glock mags including 29rdr in car and 1 more Kel mag.

might be upgrading soon to PM9 or PF9 instead of P3AT


I carry this because:

1. Most malfunctions with autos are mag related---so ill just switch it out.

2. My Kel is .380---which I dont have a lot of trust in so im gonna double or triple tap someone with it---that leaves only 3-4 left--and thats only good for one more.My glock is deep concealment---so my kel fires till i can make my way to my glock. I train for having to shoot each perp at least 2/3 times: KT loaded 7 shots= 2 perps while Glock loaded 10 shots= 3 perps

3. I do lots of road trips and camping in isolated areas---me and my firearms are the only thing thats out there protecting me most times. More ammo is good in that situation.

4. Majority of self defense situations are multiple opponents--I look at this and look at myself 6 feet 230lb mid 30s and athletic---not many people are gonna come at me unless they are determined about something----my perceived maximum threat which I plan for is at least 2 perps and maybe more---so this is my reality I work/train with and for.

5. I also really carry for that what-if/SHTF situation----was caught in the riots in Newark NJ---was a college student--thank god from my Calico 950 and Glock 19--- a long time ago and am still looking for that riot that happens out of no where

In the end--it actually isnt a lot--My kel tec is in a pocket holster which I modified to carry an extra mag. My glock is deep concealment and the mags/flashlight/knife i carry is a balance off.

[gary newport]

Originally posted by madizzy
I've never had a mag fail. What happens?

Depends on what fails. See an earlier post about a baseplate popping off. Moreover, it need not be the mag; some jams are most expediently cleared by yanking out the old mag, maniplating the slide (which usually requires both hands) and inserting a mag. The latter could be the original one, but I'd prefer a full magazine if rounds were expended from the original.

Insertion of a fresh mag is also suggested should there be a "lull in the fight".

On the "how it looks" front, see the comment by Mas.

If you were ASKING for advice on why one should extra ammo, you got it. If your intent was to argue that those who DO carry spares are wrong, you came to the wrong place!

[Lionel Mandrake]

Originally posted by Oneiros
Have you ever been in an auto accident? Do you have car insurance?

Have you ever died? Do you have life insurance?

Too heavy? Wow, just wow. It's hard for me to accept that the weight of one spare magazine is even an issue worth mentioning.

It might be. It'll be harder to bring yourself back to life once you've ran out of ammo and are shot to death by multiple attackers, however.

I have a G17, but I carry my G26 most of the time. That's 12 rounds with the extension. I have to carry another mag just to reach the point one mag offers you.

Oh, and when I do carry my G17, all my mags have extensions and I carry 2 spares instead of one, as that's what my shoulder holster allows for.

I hope if I ever get in a gunfight it's with a bad guy that shares your nancyboy mentality.

NANCYBOY MENTALITY?

Do you know what a polemic is?

Here; let me save you the trouble:
POLEMIC: is the practice of disputing or controverting religious, philosophical, or political matters. As such, a polemic text on a topic is often written specifically to dispute or refute a topic that is widely viewed to be a "sacred cow" or beyond reproach, in an effort to promote factual awareness.

The word is derived from the Greek word polemikos (ðïëåµéêùò) which means warlike[1]. Plato uses a character named Polemarchus in Plato's Republic as a vehicle to drive forward an ethical debate.

In other words my friend;
I was trying to start an intelectual debate as to the pros and cons of extra mags, so that one could make an informed decision based on the facts as understood by the GT community. I suggest you take your boorish name calling to the Political Issues thread as it will not be much appreciated here.

And now my apologia:
I do, in higher risk situations (nights with no moon, fog, riots, etc.) tote an extra mag. or even two to feed my G17.
HOWEVER, if the situation requires greater concealment or less weight,
as in joging, swimming, or a bikini contest; I have a small NAA 5 shot .22 MAGNUM and a Smith .38 snub air weight.

PS- Be careful what you hope for... Nancy.

[Oneiros]

Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake
NANCYBOY MENTALITY?

Do you know what a polemic is?

Here; let me save you the trouble:
POLEMIC: is the practice of disputing or controverting religious, philosophical, or political matters. As such, a polemic text on a topic is often written specifically to dispute or refute a topic that is widely viewed to be a "sacred cow" or beyond reproach, in an effort to promote factual awareness.

The word is derived from the Greek word polemikos (ðïëåµéêùò) which means warlike[1]. Plato uses a character named Polemarchus in Plato's Republic as a vehicle to drive forward an ethical debate.

In other words my friend;
I was trying to start an intelectual debate as to the pros and cons of extra mags, so that one could make an informed decision based on the facts as understood by the GT community. I suggest you take your boorish name calling to the Political Issues thread as it will not be much appreciated here.

And now my apologia:
I do, in higher risk situations (nights with no moon, fog, riots, etc.) tote an extra mag. or even two to feed my G17.
HOWEVER, if the situation requires greater concealment or less weight,
as in joging, swimming, or a bikini contest; I have a small NAA 5 shot .22 MAGNUM and a Smith .38 snub air weight.

PS- Be careful what you hope for... Nancy.

Good job using a thesaurus, misspelling "intellectual", then insulting me after you rambled on about how I should be above insulting like you.

Take your liberal word-twisting hypocrisy elsewhere; that kinda bs isn't going to fly here.

Wait, you actually carry a NAA 5 shot .22 magnum for self defense when the G17 is too much?

I think enough has just been said about the original poster. :rofl:

[Kevinr20]

I read an article here on GT some time ago that had a tale of a gunshop owner who used a crazy amount of ammo to defend himself against a bunch of thugs breaking into his house.

Something like 100+ rounds from different weapons.

Anyone else remember this?

edited for typos

[Lionel Mandrake]

Originally posted by Oneiros
Good job using a thesaurus, misspelling "intellectual", then insulting me after you rambled on about how I should be above insulting like you.

Take your liberal word-twisting hypocrisy elsewhere; that kinda bs isn't going to fly here.

Wait, you actually carry a NAA 5 shot .22 magnum for self defense when the G17 is too much?

I think enough has just been said about the original poster. :rofl:

Ahhh... spelling;
the last resort for people who don't want talk about the issues at hand. I will proof my post better next time for you, as not to distract you from my intended message.
It should be noted that the irony of spelling intellectual incorrectly is not lost on me. So have a beer Oneiros... :cheers:

Why did you have to say I was a "nancyboy"? That was most uncouth.

After all, I was not telling you what to carry.

And yes, sometimes I take the mini-mag when the G17 is too big.
So what? I would like to see you fit a 17 + a spare mag. down your running shorts, then go run for an hour and tell me how that
worked out for ya.

The G17 is a full sized pistol, and is not always an option.

Duh.:upeyes:

[Warp]

Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake
I would like to see you fit a 17 + a spare mag. down your running shorts, then go run for an hour and tell me how that
worked out for ya.

G26 + www.smartcarry.com


;)

[BonoVox]

Originally posted by madizzy
run the stats on # of spare tires used per day vs. the # of 2nd mags used per day by a civilian...then come back and try that argument again.

personally, i've had about 4 flat tires in my 20 years of driving. however, never needed a 2nd mag (never needed a 1st one, thankfully)

do as you want, but that argument is apples and coconuts

Take it even further. In 20 years you have not needed a 1st mag and if you did there is most likely a 90 plus percent chance you will not need a second.

Either way I think you should carry a second mag unless doing so will make it less likely you will carry at all that day. Nothing wrong with not doing so on a hot day when you are going light and not making a pass by the hood. IMO

[Pima Pants]

Oneiros:

Both myself and the original poster are waiting for you to explain your "nancyboy" comment. Why did you insult the original poster when he didn't direct anything derogatory toward you?

At least have the stones to explain yourself.

[DJTeancum]

I carry one extra mag and you can't make me stop nomatter what!!! :tongueout:

[Mas Ayoob]

In all these years, I haven't died once, but I still keep my life insurance paid up...

[rwojcik]

Originally posted by madizzy
run the stats on # of spare tires used per day vs. the # of 2nd mags used per day by a civilian...then come back and try that argument again.

personally, i've had about 4 flat tires in my 20 years of driving. however, never needed a 2nd mag (never needed a 1st one, thankfully)

do as you want, but that argument is apples and coconuts
You don't need that spare tire but have it "just in case" ... don't need the extra rounds but have it "just in case".

[KalashnakovKids]

Glock, when you absolutely positively have to have 75 rounds of 9mm at all times.

[Oneiros]

Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake
Ahhh... spelling;
the last resort for people who don't want talk about the issues at hand. I will proof my post better next time for you, as not to distract you from my intended message.
It should be noted that the irony of spelling intellectual incorrectly is not lost on me. So have a beer Oneiros... :cheers:

Why did you have to say I was a "nancyboy"? That was most uncouth.

After all, I was not telling you what to carry.

And yes, sometimes I take the mini-mag when the G17 is too big.
So what? I would like to see you fit a 17 + a spare mag. down your running shorts, then go run for an hour and tell me how that
worked out for ya.

The G17 is a full sized pistol, and is not always an option.

Duh.:upeyes:

The spelling was just funny in lieu of the specific way you're trying to pretend you're smarter than me. Irony. My main point was the hypocrisy.

I said nancyboy because it fit. I would've said a synonym for "cat", but it would've been censored. Your statement about the weight of the mag earned you nancyboy.

I work with my G26 in my pocket, I've looked into a p3at but decided the extra size, weight, and so on was worth the downfalls. My G26 is never far from hand at home and never not on my person otherwise unless it's illegal to be.

I have a G17 too, and I know it's not always an option, that's why I got a subcompact. You REALLY think you're going to be able to defend yourself with an NAA mini revolver in 22 mag? You would HONESTLY be better with a good folding knife and some knife skills.

[Oneiros]

Originally posted by Pima Pants
Oneiros:

Both myself and the original poster are waiting for you to explain your "nancyboy" comment. Why did you insult the original poster when he didn't direct anything derogatory toward you?

At least have the stones to explain yourself.

While you may believe otherwise, I don't believe someone must insult you first to insult them to begin with.

He said something stupid, so I insulted him. I can't believe you guys are making such a big deal out of it, honestly. My friends will call you on BS too and call you names much worse than nancyboy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're carrying... but an extra mag is too heavy?!

Come on...

[windplex]

Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake
1. When in real life has a CHLer had to reload?
-not that I want to be the first to find out, but, I read many
accounts of people using deadly force, but a reload wasn't done

2. Mags tend to be heavy.

3. If you are forced to use your weapon to defend your life...
it might be hard to explain, to a jury of laymen, why you have 34 rounds of 9mm JHPs just to walk yer dog.

4. I have a G17 so one mag = 17 rounds.

Stats are: quick event -- few seconds, night or evening, close range, 5 or so shots.

Will YOU need more only you will know -- not trying to be funny.

My opinion: You have 98% of all potential lifetime encounters covered with 10 rounds. Perhaps 99% with 17 rounds -- do you need 17 more? Up to you.
Windplex
Ps. When I compete in the future I will compete in the ten round competition so I get more practie reloading under pressure -- hedging my bet I guess;)

[Patronus]

Originally posted by 1-2man
What if there are 18 of them coming for you? You better be a good shot. :supergrin:

If there are 18 coming at you, then it may be time to re-evaluate the situation and/or consider "flight" over "fight." :outtahere:

Joking aside, how much ammo you carry with you is up to you, but I personally wouldn't feel woefully under-gunned with a 17+1 setup. Wheelgun carriers would have to reload twice, under extreme conditions, just to get what you have without reloading. That's the main reason I don't carry a revolver.

Some statistics say that very few shots are actually fired in self-defense situations involving regular armed citizens--something like 3 or 4 shots on average. (Sorry, but I have no reference of this, so take it at face value.) But as "1-2man" hinted, it's best to prepare and train for worst-case scenarios rather than "averages."

Personally, living in Utah, and with the Trolley Square massacre still very fresh in my mind, I've begun carrying an extra mag all the time, which I didn't do previously. Ogden City Police Officer Ken Hammond, the off-duty first-responder to the Trolley Square shooting, was carrying an 8-rd Kimber .45 with no extra mags. I'm carrying a Kel-Tec P-11 these days, so with 2 limited-capacity mags, I have 21 rounds--just 3 more than you in ONE of your Glock 17 mags.

Do I envy you? Yes. I want a Glock 19 so bad, I can't stand it, but it's not a reality right now. But I'm tempted to buy some full-cap 15-rd mags for future use, in case the AWB rears its ugly head again.

Bottom line: Be prepared. Listen to the voice in the back of your head and follow it--unless you're nuts. :crazy:

And regardless your plan, practice practice practice.

That's my 2 cents, sold to y'all at a 100% discount.

[happyguy]

The statistics indicating that the average encounter only requires 3/4 rounds are skewed because they include, murders, accidents, and suicides (which normally don't require more than one round), and most events only involve one attacker. Although less likely, multiple attackers are not uncommon.

Read Ayoobs story about the jewelry store owner in L.A. and you will quickly come to the realization that capacity does matter. He did and he was getting hits, not misses.

15+1 is about the bare minimum for me anymore, but I still usually carry at least one extra magazine.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

[Pima Pants]

Oneiros:

While I disagree with the name-calling, at least you had the cajones to explain yourself. Thank you.

[Lionel Mandrake]

Originally posted by Oneiros
The spelling was just funny in lieu of the specific way you're trying to pretend you're smarter than me. Irony. My main point was the hypocrisy.

I said nancyboy because it fit. I would've said a synonym for "cat", but it would've been censored. Your statement about the weight of the mag earned you nancyboy.

I work with my G26 in my pocket, I've looked into a p3at but decided the extra size, weight, and so on was worth the downfalls. My G26 is never far from hand at home and never not on my person otherwise unless it's illegal to be.

I have a G17 too, and I know it's not always an option, that's why I got a subcompact. You REALLY think you're going to be able to defend yourself with an NAA mini revolver in 22 mag? You would HONESTLY be better with a good folding knife and some knife skills.

It would be hypocrisy if I told you that you must spell intellectual with two Ls whilst I spelled it with one. That was, in fact, irony.

But who cares. I don't...
Actually, I like your cheeky attitude, however misdirected your antipathy towards me is.

And now my point:
Yes, I can defend myself with a .22 mag 5 shot mini wheel gun.
Not as well as I could with an M-14, 1911 or G17. but like I said, it would
be very hard to get a good cardio workout with one hand holding my G17 in place. (nevermind the extra mags)

So here is the deal:
You take back the Nancyboy quip, and I will promise to use smaller words so you don't think I'm belittling your vocabulary.

Truce?

[romperstomper]

Originally posted by stangyg123
If you feel comfortable not carrying a spare that is fine, personally I do not feel comfortable unless I am. Each to his own. :) +1

I don't. I only have an 8+1 9mmP and I feel comfortable with that.

[madizzy]

Originally posted by windplex
My opinion: You have 98% of all potential lifetime encounters covered with 10 rounds. Perhaps 99% with 17 rounds -- do you need 17 more? Up to you.
and when you factor your chances of falling into one of those 2 scenarios? let's say it's 1%. so there is a 1% chance that you'll need to fire, and a 98% chance that you'll need 10 rounds or less...

now i suck at math, but that makes a pretty darn low likelihood that you'll need more than 10...i have 2 spare mags in my truck, but don't carry an extra on me.

[Tecumseh]

Originally posted by madizzy
and when you factor your chances of falling into one of those 2 scenarios? let's say it's 1%. so there is a 1% chance that you'll need to fire, and a 98% chance that you'll need 10 rounds or less...

now i suck at math, but that makes a pretty darn low likelihood that you'll need more than 10...i have 2 spare mags in my truck, but don't carry an extra on me. Good for you.

Some of us want to carry more. Why do you care?

[gary newport]

Originally posted by Tecumseh
Good for you.

Some of us want to carry more. Why do you care?

:goodpost:

[SilverState]

Originally posted by Tecumseh
Good for you.

Some of us want to carry more. Why do you care?

Why does he care? He is posting in a thread where the thread starter is indicating that he does not think an extra mag is a good idea. Makes sense that he would post his preference and opinion.

[gary newport]

Originally posted by SilverState
Why does he care? He is posting in a thread where the thread starter is indicating that he does not think an extra mag is a good idea. Makes sense that he would post his preference and opinion.

The idea that carrying an extra magazine might not be NECESSARY might be debatable, but the suggestion that carrying an extra magazine is somehow BAD is ludicrous nonsense.

[Warp]

Originally posted by Tecumseh
Good for you.

Some of us want to carry more. Why do you care?

:thumbsup:

[SilverState]

Originally posted by Lionel Mandrake
1. When in real life has a CHLer had to reload?
-not that I want to be the first to find out, but, I read many
accounts of people using deadly force, but a reload wasn't done

2. Mags tend to be heavy.

3. If you are forced to use your weapon to defend your life...
it might be hard to explain, to a jury of laymen, why you have 34 rounds of 9mm JHPs just to walk yer dog.

4. I have a G17 so one mag = 17 rounds.

Originally posted by gary newport
The idea that carrying an extra magazine might not be NECESSARY might be debatable, but the suggestion that carrying an extra magazine is somehow BAD is ludicrous nonsense.

This thread is not about whether carrying an extra mag is "NECESSARY". Read the original post and the title of the thread. The post discusses the reason for not carrying an extra mag. Some would agree and some would not, hence the responding posts indicating peoples' preference and opinions.

I would not be surprised to find out that many of the people who say that carrying an extra mag is a good idea, actually don't carry a firearm at all times, nor do they always carry an extra mag when they are carrying a firearm. In theory, carrying an extra mag, a larger caliber, a higher capacity firearm, a firearm with a longer barrel (for more velocity), etc. etc., are all good things, but not everyone can get away with doing that given their work environment and/or their required clothing. Patrol cops probably have no reason not to carry at least one extra mags, but not all of us are patrol cops...

[Warp]

Originally posted by SilverState
Patrol cops probably have no reason not to carry at least one extra mags, but not all of us are patrol cops...

Ha. Patrol officers have no reason not to carry two spare mags, one or two BUGs (all on their person), and some more pistol mags plus an AR with at least 6-8 mags in the car.

[SilverState]

Originally posted by Warp
Ha. Patrol officers have no reason not to carry two spare mags, one or two BUGs (all on their person), and some more pistol mags plus an AR with at least 6-8 mags in the car.

Ha. Correct. And not all of us are patrol cops...

[Warp]

Originally posted by SilverState
Ha. Correct. And not all of us are patrol cops...

No, we are not...which is why we don't carry a primary pistol with two mags, one or two backup pistols, a shotgun, an AR with a bunch of mags, OC, multiple pairs of cuffs, several flashlights, a tazer, body armour, a defensive knife, a baton, a cell phone, latex gloves, and a radio to call for backup. And that list is only things carried on their person plus guns in the car.

Nobody here is suggesting we carry, or saying that they carry, what a patrol officer should. And even if they were....so what?

[SCmasterblaster]

An LEO once asked Elmer Keith how much spare ammo to carry. His response - "How much CAN you carry?" :supergrin:

[madizzy]

Originally posted by gary newport
The idea that carrying an extra magazine might not be NECESSARY might be debatable, but the suggestion that carrying an extra magazine is somehow BAD is ludicrous nonsense.
where in my post did i say that it was "bad"? please show me...

[SilverState]

Originally posted by Warp
so what?

You are the one that brought up all the other things they carried. So you tell me, so what?

[Warp]

Originally posted by SilverState
You are the one that brought up all the other things they carried. So you tell me, so what?

I have nothing to explain. You are the one who brought up patrol officers and compared carrying a spare mag to carrying what htey might. I merely pointed out that carrying a spare mag does not come close to carrying what a cop on patrol does.

Originally posted by SilverState
Patrol cops probably have no reason not to carry at least one extra mags, but not all of us are patrol cops...

So, I ask you...even if a regular citizen carried what a "patrol cop" might....so what?

[RussP]

C'mon guys... lets try to play nice, okay?

:cool:

[SilverState]

Originally posted by Warp
So, I ask you...even if a regular citizen carried what a "patrol cop" might....so what?

Here is my response: :mallninja:

[madizzy]

Originally posted by SilverState
Here is my response: :mallninja:
exactly...

[Warp]

Originally posted by SilverState
Here is my response: :mallninja:

Congratulations on the excellent, well thought out, persuasive response showing your logic and reasoning.

[SilverState]

A picture is worth a thousand words...

:2gun:

[madizzy]

i think you hit a little too close to home with him...

[Warp]

Originally posted by SilverState
A picture is worth a thousand words...

:2gun:

That it is...but I was still hopeing for more.

I might agree with your little ninja man, except that you made the comparison to cops based on a single spare mag...where do you personally draw the line between what you consider reasonable and mall ninja territory?

[EAGLESFANPHILA]

It all goes back to the saying - "It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it!":thumbsup:

[madizzy]

Originally posted by EAGLESFANPHILA
It all goes back to the saying - "It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it!":thumbsup:
but the flip side to that argument will always be, "where's your bullet proof vest?" or "do you always carry a first aid kit on you (not just in your car)?"

at some point you need to draw the line in the sand and stop taking precautionary measures that are unlikely to be necessary, particularly when you aren't taking other measures that a