just on the off chance.. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ender
03-03-2007, 22:19
i'm fairly certain (yeah, i've been lazy) that OH places that sell beer for consumption on the premesis are off limits.

does that hold true if you WORK there? (in MI, the law specifies that an employee or owner is exempt from this rule)

ede
03-04-2007, 05:59
don't believe the law makes a distinction between working or not. you ought to be able to find a PDF of the laws, or booklet, on the AGs website

Linda
03-04-2007, 10:23
That holds true even for the owner of the business!

The word used is "dispensed". Not consumption! There is no legal definition of dispensed. Here's where I make everyone angry! They screwed it up and called it a class "D" liquor license, but did not specify which class D, thus actually currently making it illegal to carry in Kroger's while I'm picking up a loaf of bread, because they dispense/sell beer and wine. This is not what HB12 meant to say, BUT, get some anti-gun prosecuter who wants to make a statement, and see law abiding citizens get dinged for this rediculous violation. It's on the fix it list.

firedog978
03-06-2007, 06:27
Originally posted by Linda
That holds true even for the owner of the business!

The word used is "dispensed". Not consumption! There is no legal definition of dispensed. Here's where I make everyone angry! They screwed it up and called it a class "D" liquor license, but did not specify which class D, thus actually currently making it illegal to carry in Kroger's while I'm picking up a loaf of bread, because they dispense/sell beer and wine. This is not what HB12 meant to say, BUT, get some anti-gun prosecuter who wants to make a statement, and see law abiding citizens get dinged for this rediculous violation. It's on the fix it list.

While it's true that there exists NO EXCLUSION for employees, or even the business owner in CLASS D establishments that dispense liquor or beer, I believe the law excludes grocery (Kroger's) and/or convenience marts. The alcohol is sold to be taken out. There is no drinking on these premises. It is not 'dispensed' (consumption).

Here's what OFCC says:

What is a Class D establishment?


Liquour licenses are distributed by class in the State of Ohio. Any establishment that serves alcohol has a Class D liquor permit/license. However, any merchant that sells sealed liquor on a Sunday also has a Class D permit for Sunday Sales. It is very important to realize that the concealed carry restrictions prohibit a licensee from being in a Class D establishment that serves alcohol.

Sec. 2923.121: (A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which liquor is being dispensed in premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

The Attorney General's office has stated as follows:

...The law prohibits carrying a weapon in a room in a Class D establishment where liquor is being dispensed. Thus, it would be possible to carry a firearm in a hotel lobby (assuming the hotel has not prohibited firearms) or meeting room.

Mark Gribben
Director of Constituent Services
Office of Attorney General Jim Petro
_________________________________________________________________

This directly from the Ohi AG site:

Premises that dispense liquor. Concealed firearms are also
banned in a room or arena in which liquor is dispensed for
which a class D permit has been issued. A class D permit is
generally issued to an establishment that sells alcohol for
consumption on the premises. Be certain of the type of permit
before you enter. Note also that a liquor permit extends to
beverages that contain alcohol, not simply hard liquor. Beer,
wine, mixers and the like are covered.
__________________________________________________________________

Note the part that says: "...........an establishment that sells alcohol for
consumption on the premises."

Please let us know if ANYONE in Ohio has been charged and/or convicted for carrying in an aforementioned (grocery/convenient mart) place of business? Assuming it wasn't posted by the business owner as is their right.

Linda
03-06-2007, 06:59
Knock on wood, there have been no convictions that I am aware of. BUT, who wants to be the poster child for this?

Here's the screw up, HB12 says class D license. Did not specify D1, D2, D6...whatever. That needed to be defined specifically.

The word is dispensed. There again, no definition of dispensed anywhere. Example: a pharmacist "dispenses" drugs. Certainly you do not consume your drugs at the store.

Hmmm, gives you something to think about, huh?

firedog978
03-06-2007, 07:29
That's one of the exact points I made.
Even the Attorney General's office indicates "for consumption on the premises." The fact that there has not been an arrest and/or conviction for being armed in a grocery store is further proof that the distinction IS MADE by the AG's office between 'dispensed' and 'consumed'.

I have no problem with an absolute clarification for the law and a 'fix' as you indicate being in the works is great. I do have a problem with gun rights advocates making something out of nothing. We have enough real battles to fight with the antis muchless making mountains out of molehills and fabricating problems that do not really exist.

As to OFCC having been wrong before, yes I am sure they have; as has BFA, prosecutors and many individuals with an opinion on any matter having to do with guns or gun laws. I am certain that even the individuals in the Ohio AG's office may have differing opinions on some things. However, OFCC also indicates that they do not ever have authority or knowledge to give legal advice concerning any particular law. I simply pasted that response to indicate another well-informed organization that states an opinion on 'dispensed' vs 'consumed'. The same thing I pasted from the AG's site itself.

I hope there is a distinct clarification concerning Class D licenses and the businesses that hold them as to CC in each. Until that time, history of law enforcement on the issue tells us that they do not intend to prosecute someone for going to Kroger's. Why? I believe because the AG's office indeed makes the same distinction between 'dispensed' and 'consumption'. Heck, the AG's office even has reciprocity with states that allow CC into Class D establishments that are 51% / 49%. That should be another clue.

ColGlock
03-06-2007, 10:16
OH Dear lord.

Repeat after me Children...

Under Ohio Revised Code BEER IS NOT LIQUOR!!!!!!
However wine is.

You can carry in a store which does not allow consumption in the store. BUT if there is say a Wine tasting then you are screwed.

Linda "SHOULD" know this as we had the head of Liquor Control affirm this.

firedog978
03-06-2007, 10:47
Originally posted by ColGlock
OH Dear lord.

Repeat after me Children...

Under Ohio Revised Code BEER IS NOT LIQUOR!!!!!!
However wine is.

You can carry in a store which does not allow consumption in the store. BUT if there is say a Wine tasting then you are screwed.

Linda "SHOULD" know this as we had the head of Liquor Control affirm this.

ColGlock thank you. I agree you have it right.
I do have one clarification to make/ask you:
Just because beer is not liquor (agreed), you're not saying if beer is served for consumption that you can carry on those premises also are you? I believe not as beer is an alcohol beverage.

ColGlock
03-06-2007, 10:52
Originally posted by firedog978
ColGlock thank you. I agree you have it right.
I do have one clarification to make/ask you:
Just because beer is not liquor (agreed), you're not saying if beer is served for consumption that you can carry on those premises also are you? I believe not as beer is an alcohol beverage.

Well you would think that, HOWEVER, the law states liquor not Alcohol. So If you are someplace that only servers beer and not wine, then yes you can technically carry there. I forget is say Pizza Hut sells wine or not.

firedog978
03-06-2007, 11:53
Originally posted by ColGlock
Well you would think that, HOWEVER, the law states liquor not Alcohol. So If you are someplace that only servers beer and not wine, then yes you can technically carry there. I forget is say Pizza Hut sells wine or not.

WOW! I suppose an old dog can learn a new trick. I didn't know that. It's good to hear.

crowkiller
03-07-2007, 07:13
So we can carry in a restaurant thats serves beer but not liquor? What license does a restaurant have so they can serve beer but not liquor? Im a little slow.

This says that beer is included in the liquor permit.
_______________

This directly from the Ohi AG site:

Premises that dispense liquor. Concealed firearms are also
banned in a room or arena in which liquor is dispensed for
which a class D permit has been issued. A class D permit is
generally issued to an establishment that sells alcohol for
consumption on the premises. Be certain of the type of permit
before you enter. Note also that a liquor permit extends to
beverages that contain alcohol, not simply hard liquor. Beer,
wine, mixers and the like are covered.
__________________________________________________
________________

Brian Dover
03-07-2007, 11:54
Who'd a thunk it? ;) Someday I'm going to find out that the word "conundrum" comes from the name of Ohio's first Attorney General or something. Yes, Mr. Conun Drum, Esquire, GOTTA be in a history book someplace.

ColGlock
03-07-2007, 13:01
Originally posted by crowkiller
So we can carry in a restaurant thats serves beer but not liquor? What license does a restaurant have so they can serve beer but not liquor? Im a little slow.

This says that beer is included in the liquor permit.
_______________

This directly from the Ohi AG site:

Premises that dispense liquor. Concealed firearms are also
banned in a room or arena in which liquor is dispensed for
which a class D permit has been issued. A class D permit is
generally issued to an establishment that sells alcohol for
consumption on the premises. Be certain of the type of permit
before you enter. Note also that a liquor permit extends to
beverages that contain alcohol, not simply hard liquor. Beer,
wine, mixers and the like are covered.
__________________________________________________
________________

The AG may say anything they like, they have no ability to make laws. The law says "liquor" WRT carry. The law excludes beer from the definition of liquor, hence gas stations, and convenience stores able to sell beer. A Class "D" allows the sale of all Alcohol, including beer and liquor.

Now note, the quote you made is technically correct. you cannot carry in a Class D that is SERVERING alcohol for CONSUMPTION on the premise. Most places that server Liquor also server beer.