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Cliff Cargill
03-09-2007, 14:43
Did everyone hear about the DC Court Of Appeals ruling today upholding a citizens Second Amendment Right To Keep And Bear Arms! This makes all those crappy DC gun laws worthless!:tongueout:

This is a great victory for the NRA! (lumberjack join up) Read all about it in this AP news story.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/03/09/D8NOSR480.html

and this FOX news story:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,258067,00.html

and MSNBC video: under "Politics"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

This video talks about it being brought "by members of The National Rifle Association". That would be the NRA lumberjack.


What this means is that if the Supreme Court refuses to hear the case, the anti's are toast. This is the first case in 70 years to address the Second Amendment in this scope. 70 years.

You're welcome lumberjack.

Now everyone, :chatter: :deadhorse: :dunno: :moonie::panties: and join the NRA!

para40
03-10-2007, 08:21
+1 on this post! I believe the original deal I had with Lumberjack on that little black gun thingy was to be [as in stay] a NRA member. Are they perfect, no, but they are very loud and VERY strong. If not for them we already would not have guns Bill NRA Benefactor /Life

Lobo
03-12-2007, 23:58
:banana: :thumbsup:

Chris

lumberjack
03-14-2007, 23:57
Cliff I am a member until sometime in 2011, I renounce my membership.


PS the ******s sent me more mail (lil over a buck in postage) last week asking for more money. As beloved as the NRA may be to some, they have seriously pissed away the money I paid in to be a member.

Who cares about all the little trinkets they send? Instead of spending money asking me for more money (add up the postage they send in a year asking for more money, and to entice you to give them your money they send you even more made in China crap.) Then take the man hours they spend harassing me on the phone asking for more money and apply that towards something that matters.... man we'd be much further along.

Uncle, we'd be gunless? Surely you jest? The population of America would dwindle before they took the guns from the South, and the 78 million gun owners (NRA is a vast minority) provide a HUGE asset to national security.


The difference between a traitor and a revolutionist is the outcome, history is decided by the winners.

If NRA reformed, sure they would be awesome. They are highly interested in fleecing their own pockets. Just because they are non profit doesn't mean they are charitable, it means they don't report a profit.

Carl

PS, the victory wasn't the NRA's to claim, I believe it falls more to gun owners in general, which NRA claims to be for (not just its members).

PSS Congrats to the inhabitants of the DC area!

Cliff Cargill
03-15-2007, 08:05
There were actually two cases going on in the DC courts. The NRA had their own case going and put its resources there. The NRA lost that case and then put its backing behind the other case. Both cases still involved NRA members. It's still a victory from the NRA no thanks to naysyaers.

If you don't like the way the NRA operates, then get involved with it and help make changes. It would actually require effort on your part.

The NRA does a helluva lot more than the :rant:lumberjacks:rant: of the world to secure gun freedoms.

Lobo
03-15-2007, 11:35
Uncle, we'd be gunless? Surely you jest? The population of America would dwindle before they took the guns from the South, and the 78 million gun owners (NRA is a vast minority) provide a HUGE asset to national security.

I am sure this is what the gunowners in England and Australia said too.

Sure, I get all the stuff from the NRA every other day in the mail (it seems) too. Do I send them money everytime, no. I try to help out as much as I can though. Simple things like the NRA round up when you buy online from places like Midway USA. You can also not receive the magazine(s) that the NRA sends with each membership and help them out monetarily that way.

Whether you like the way they operate or not, they are still a powerhouse and I am glad to have them on my side.

I would say the NRA did a good job for the gun owners in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina. I was very happy to see those gunowners get their treasures returned.

Chris

lumberjack
03-15-2007, 13:25
Cliff, why do I want to get on a leaky ship to attempt to repair the damage?

Chris (any kin to Para40?) ever heard the saying, "All it takes for evil to prevail is a few good men to do nothing." I'd hope we would have more spine than our island friends.


For the record I support what I believe in, hell even put effort in earning the support I put money in. If the NRA would wake up their contributions would be nothing short of amazing, as it stands, I couldn't care less.

If "if" was a fifth, we'd all be messed up.

Lobo
03-15-2007, 14:26
Nope, no relation that I know of.

Right now, we ALL need to be calling our reps and let them know how we feel about HR 1022, the new AWB brought forth by Rep. McCarthy of NY.



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Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (Introduced in House)

HR 1022 IH


110th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 1022
To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes.


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

February 13, 2007
Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A BILL
To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007'.

SEC. 2. REINSTATEMENT FOR 10 YEARS OF REPEALED CRIMINAL PROVISIONS RELATING TO ASSAULT WEAPONS AND LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.

(a) Reinstatement of Provisions Wholly Repealed- Paragraphs (30) and (31) of section 921(a), subsections (v) and (w) and Appendix A of section 922,
and the last 2 sentences of section 923(i) of title 18, United States Code, as in effect just before the repeal made by section 110105(2) of the
Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, are hereby enacted into law.

(b) Reinstatement of Provisions Partially Repealed- Section 924 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in subsection (a)(1), by striking subparagraph (B) and inserting the following:

`(B) knowingly violates subsection (a)(4), (f), (k), (r), (v), or (w) of section 922;'; and

(2) in subsection (c)(1)(B), by striking clause (i) and inserting the following:

`(i) is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or semiautomatic assault weapon, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of
not less than 10 years; or'.

SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.

(a) In General- Section 921(a)(30) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended to read as follows:

`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means any of the following:

`(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;

`(ii) AR-10;

`(iii) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;

`(iv) AR70;

`(v) Calico Liberty;

`(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU;

`(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC;

`(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;

`(ix) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1;

`(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;

`(xi) M1 Carbine;

`(xii) Saiga;

`(xiii) SAR-8, SAR-4800;

`(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;

`(xv) SLG 95;

`(xvi) SLR 95 or 96;

`(xvii) Steyr AUG;

`(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14;

`(xix) Tavor;

`(xx) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; or

`(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).

`(B) The following pistols or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) Calico M-110;

`(ii) MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3;

`(iii) Olympic Arms OA;

`(iv) TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10; or

`(v) Uzi.

`(C) The following shotguns or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) Armscor 30 BG;

`(ii) SPAS 12 or LAW 12;

`(iii) Striker 12; or

`(iv) Streetsweeper.

`(D) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a threaded barrel;

`(iii) a pistol grip;

`(iv) a forward grip; or

`(v) a barrel shroud.

`(E)(i) Except as provided in clause (ii), a semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

`(F) A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has--

`(i) a second pistol grip;

`(ii) a threaded barrel;

`(iii) a barrel shroud; or

`(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at a location outside of the pistol grip.

`(G) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a pistol grip;

`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds.

`(I) A shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

`(J) A frame or receiver that is identical to, or based substantially on the frame or receiver of, a firearm described in any of subparagraphs (A)
through (I) or (L).

`(K) A conversion kit.

`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm,
that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable
presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting
purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a
sporting event.'.

(b) Related Definitions- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(36) Barrel Shroud- The term `barrel shroud' means a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that
the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel, but does not include a slide that encloses the barrel, and does not
include an extension of the stock along the bottom of the barrel which does not encircle or substantially encircle the barrel.

`(37) Conversion Kit- The term `conversion kit' means any part or combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a firearm into a
semiautomatic assault weapon, and any combination of parts from which a semiautomatic assault weapon can be assembled if the parts are in the possession
or under the control of a person.

`(38) Detachable Magazine- The term `detachable magazine' means an ammunition feeding device that can readily be inserted into a firearm.

`(39) Fixed Magazine- The term `fixed magazine' means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm.

`(40) Folding or Telescoping Stock- The term `folding or telescoping stock' means a stock that folds, telescopes, or otherwise operates to reduce the
length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of a firearm.

`(41) Forward Grip- The term `forward grip' means a grip located forward of the trigger that functions as a pistol grip.

`(42) Pistol Grip- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.

`(43) Threaded Barrel- The term `threaded barrel' means a feature or characteristic that is designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a
firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(a)).'.

SEC. 4. GRANDFATHER PROVISION.

Section 922(v)(2) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--

(1) by inserting `(A)' after `(2)'; and

(2) by adding after and below the end the following:

`(B) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm the possession or transfer of which would (but for this subparagraph) be unlawful by reason of this
subsection, and which is otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of the enactment of this subparagraph.'.

SEC. 5. REPEAL OF CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS.

Section 922(v)(3) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by striking `(3)' and all that follows through the
1st sentence and inserting the following:

`(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm that--

`(A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, level, or slide action;

`(B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or

`(C) is an antique firearm.'.

SEC. 6. REQUIRING BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR THE TRANSFER OF LAWFULLY POSSESSED SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS.

Section 922(v) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(5) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer a semiautomatic assault weapon to which paragraph (1) does not apply, except through--

`(A) a licensed dealer, and for purposes of subsection (t) in the case of such a transfer, the weapon shall be considered to be transferred from the
business inventory of the licensed dealer and the dealer shall be considered to be the transferor; or

`(B) a State or local law enforcement agency if the transfer is made in accordance with the procedures provided for in subsection (t) of this section
and section 923(g).

`(6) The Attorney General shall establish and maintain, in a timely manner, a record of the make, model, and date of manufacture of any semiautomatic
assault weapon which the Attorney General is made aware has been used in relation to a crime under Federal or State law, and the nature and
circumstances of the crime involved, including the outcome of relevant criminal investigations and proceedings. The Attorney General shall annually
submit the record to the Congress and make the record available to the general public.'.

SEC. 7. STRENGTHENING THE BAN ON THE POSSESSION OR TRANSFER OF A LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE.

(a) Ban on Transfer of Semiautomatic Assault Weapon With Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after subsection (y) the following:

`(z) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer any assault weapon with a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.

(2) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(8) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(z) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.'.

(b) Certification Requirement-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 922(w) of such title, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--

(A) in paragraph (3)--

(i) by adding `or' at the end of subparagraph (B); and

(ii) by striking subparagraph (C) and redesignating subparagraph (D) as subparagraph (C); and

(B) by striking paragraph (4) and inserting the following:

`(4) It shall be unlawful for a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer who transfers a large capacity ammunition feeding device
that was manufactured on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection, to fail to certify to the Attorney General before the end of the 60-day
period that begins with the date of the transfer, in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, that the device was manufactured
on
or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.'.

(2) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of such title, as amended by subsection (a)(2) of this section, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(9) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(w)(4) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.'.

SEC. 8. UNLAWFUL WEAPONS TRANSFERS TO JUVENILES.

Section 922(x) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)--

(A) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and

(B) by adding at the end the following:

`(C) a semiautomatic assault weapon; or

`(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'; and

(2) in paragraph (2)--

(A) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and

(B) by adding at the end the following:

`(C) a semiautomatic assault weapon; or

`(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.

SEC. 9. BAN ON IMPORTATION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE.

(a) In General- Section 922(w) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1), by striking `(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2)' and inserting `(1)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B)';

(2) in paragraph (2), by striking `(2) Paragraph (1)' and inserting `(B) Subparagraph (A)'; and

(3) by inserting before paragraph (3) the following:

`(2) It shall be unlawful for any person to import or bring into the United States a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.

(b) Conforming Amendment- Section 921(a)(31)(A) of such title, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by striking `manufactured after the date
of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994'.



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Chris

para40
03-18-2007, 09:46
Lubmerjack,
I certainly was not jesting. The NRA is one of many great organizations fighting for our common beliefs, but by far the largest and most powerful. As has been seen in recent preseidential elections.

Your complaint of trinkets and literature are understandable. I had the same problem with the RNC. One phone call to each, NRA and RNC, solved this problem. In the big picture this is a small problem that can fixed with minimal effort.

The big picture lies in what they are able to accomplish on a national level because of their numbers. When politicians hear from the NRA they pay attention because of the strength in their lobbying power.

As far as Britian and Australia are concerned, Britian was not a shock because of their increasingly socialist/leftist stance. I, on the other hand, would have lost money on Australia because of their fiercely independent past.

Lobo is not related other than common views on these and other subjects.

Other great org. are 2nd Amend Found., GOA, JPFO., etc. I am a life member of several of these. I have been in this fight for a long time
and have seen good and bad changes. Do not count on others to stand up for whats right, or you will be sorely diappointed! Apathy is what you will see on a large scale. This a huge problem in our country.
As for as getting our guns, some efforts will be overt, while others will use the boil the frog method. They are determined, thats is why we must stay united as a common front. Bill, GOD Bless America P.s. Cliff , good job and thanks for your efforts.

lumberjack
03-20-2007, 22:01
Originally posted by para40
One phone call to each, NRA and RNC, solved this problem. In the big picture this is a small problem that can fixed with minimal effort.


Hahahhaahahahahahahah

In one hand you speak of your cancelling your trinket gathering (and $50+ a year in postage alone asking for more money) solving the problem, then go on to talk about the big picture.

I am a big picture kinda guy, like to see past my nose so to speak. The SMALL picture is you stopped recieving the chaff they distribute with the UTMOST vigor, the big picture is they still do it to everyone else who hasn't said stop. What you have done doesn't fix anything on the big picture, they still piss through money.


Originally posted by para40
The big picture lies in what they are able to accomplish on a national level because of their numbers. When politicians hear from the NRA they pay attention because of the strength in their lobbying power.

True, they have the potential to do wonders yet somehow think passing out 50 cent made in China knifes, gaudy unusable key chains, are going to make someone want to join the NRA? HA Seriously what purpose does all that effort go to serve? Then you sign up, and they send yet MORE crap and ask for more money to piss away. In the BIG picture they piss away my occasionally hard earned money and don't deserve more. Sure they have their victories but with my money they have hardly earned their keep.

Originally posted by para40
Do not count on others to stand up for whats right, or you will be sorely diappointed! Apathy is what you will see on a large scale. This a huge problem in our country.


Exerpts from a post/essay I wrote the afternoon of Feb 27th, 2006 regarding my profession, still applies here:

"Part of being a man, as I understand it, is standing up for what you believe is right without looking over your shoulder to see if anyone else is standing up. "

"I do what's right because I am trying to become a man where getting by is good enough and doing what's right is fine as long as it's convenient. Shame on those who partake in doing things they know are wrong simply because they have limited themselves to having to do it to survive. Why should what's right be compromised because of your lack of planning? Just like the saying "Your lack of planning doesnt constitute an emergency on my part," you not being able to sit in an electric reclining chair isnt because you chose to do proper work. I would rather be poor and in tatters being able to look a man in the eye than gain the world and not be able to look in the mirror.

"Sure, there are exceptions to every rule, the only absolute is there are no absolutes. "

""You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything. You've got to be your own man not a puppet on a string, never compromise whats right and uphold your family name....""

"My ignorance made me a problem and it always will, however I choose to learn from the mistakes of the past and build on them for a better tomorrow. Repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result is literally crazy. As our knowledge of trees and their reactions to our actions grows, we should change and adapt (much like trees) to offer the best service we know. "

Replace "tree(s)" with whatever your heart desires.

Freedom isn't free, it comes with the highest of costs. I'll defend my freedoms. I don't intend to go on the offense until I am forced to become defensive, the best defense is offense.

I have been considering what is the best (alternative) way for me to promote the freedoms I hold dear, firearms as well as others... at this point the only thing I am sure of is the NRA in its current form isn't for me.

PARAGON
03-21-2007, 07:49
Originally posted by lumberjack
Hahahhaahahahahahahah

In one hand you speak of your cancelling your trinket gathering (and $50+ a year in postage alone asking for more money) solving the problem, then go on to talk about the big picture.

I am a big picture kinda guy, like to see past my nose so to speak. The SMALL picture is you stopped recieving the chaff they distribute with the UTMOST vigor, the big picture is they still do it to everyone else who hasn't said stop. What you have done doesn't fix anything on the big picture, they still piss through money.




True, they have the potential to do wonders yet somehow think passing out 50 cent made in China knifes, gaudy unusable key chains, are going to make someone want to join the NRA? HA Seriously what purpose does all that effort go to serve? Then you sign up, and they send yet MORE crap and ask for more money to piss away. In the BIG picture they piss away my occasionally hard earned money and don't deserve more. Sure they have their victories but with my money they have hardly earned their keep.




Exerpts from a post/essay I wrote the afternoon of Feb 27th, 2006 regarding my profession, still applies here:

"Part of being a man, as I understand it, is standing up for what you believe is right without looking over your shoulder to see if anyone else is standing up. "

"I do what's right because I am trying to become a man where getting by is good enough and doing what's right is fine as long as it's convenient. Shame on those who partake in doing things they know are wrong simply because they have limited themselves to having to do it to survive. Why should what's right be compromised because of your lack of planning? Just like the saying "Your lack of planning doesnt constitute an emergency on my part," you not being able to sit in an electric reclining chair isnt because you chose to do proper work. I would rather be poor and in tatters being able to look a man in the eye than gain the world and not be able to look in the mirror.

"Sure, there are exceptions to every rule, the only absolute is there are no absolutes. "

""You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything. You've got to be your own man not a puppet on a string, never compromise whats right and uphold your family name....""

"My ignorance made me a problem and it always will, however I choose to learn from the mistakes of the past and build on them for a better tomorrow. Repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result is literally crazy. As our knowledge of trees and their reactions to our actions grows, we should change and adapt (much like trees) to offer the best service we know. "

Replace "tree(s)" with whatever your heart desires.

Freedom isn't free, it comes with the highest of costs. I'll defend my freedoms. I don't intend to go on the offense until I am forced to become defensive, the best defense is offense.

I have been considering what is the best (alternative) way for me to promote the freedoms I hold dear, firearms as well as others... at this point the only thing I am sure of is the NRA in its current form isn't for me. You freely admit your ignorance makes you a problem.

Ignorance is not a problem as it can be overcome. Your seeming willingness to use that ignorance as your spear to advance against the NRA only lessens any REAL concerns you have over the NRA's operation.

It appears you are more comfortable being anti than listening, accepting, attempting to change, and/or working with what's there. Quite honestly, I've refrained from commenting until present because your arguments against the NRA have really lacked any substance and have been more petty than anything else.

lumberjack
03-21-2007, 19:10
Lacked substance? Ok, chew on this.

A membership costs between $35-25 per year. With me thus far?

$25 per year for the budget (what I signed up for, 5 years for $125):

$3.75 per year for magazines
$8.28 per year in postage (1 peice of mail per month with at least $.69 cents of postage, asking for more money when something is cooking law wise they send out 3-4 peices of mail normally with higher postage rates)
$2 per year phone calls, they used to call once a month or so, kept on saying no, they started calling EVERY night (between 5-6 from a DC number) for 2 weeks straight, rejection every time until I asked them to remove my name from their list. Perhaps they were volunteers, their time would serve better elsewhere.
$5 per year trinkets, recent "gifts" include a knife, 2 gold looking bullets, key chain spinny thing, a pen, the bullets looked good but served no purpose, everything else was terribly quality. Included in this $5 is the added postage over the $.69 average.

$19.03 per year of tangible expense I can account for per year. $25-19.03= $5.97 cents per year they use for whatever (printing all the letters, time spent producing them, equipment to fold and mail, salary's and whatever lobbying they do).

77% of the money I sent them per year is wasted from my perspective. I don't want the trinkets, would pay for the subscripition for the magazine and would donate substantially more if they would apply it more aptly.


I am not ignorant, although you may view me as stupid. There is a difference in the meanings of the words. Even if I am stupid the NRA retards their potential.

4 million members @$25 per year is 100 million dollars. Let's say administration costs per member is $5 per year, that's 20 million, we are left with 80 million. Professional lobbiest/activest $200k (hypothetical average, group buy) per year, that would be 400 decently paid people who professionally pursue freedom interests pertaining to guns. 400 people working 2000 hours a year for "us" would get quite a bit done I'd think. (Think 800,000 man hours per year against California's AWB, I believe it would crumple (over 2k man hours per day fighting for a common interest).

I want a proactive organization fighting for my rights, not a buyer's club, Sam Walton's organization already has the market for that.

The NRA has the potential, I never said they didn't.

para40
03-23-2007, 14:40
BIG picture! You are still tripping on the trinkets. Try SAF. Great people, just look who is on their board. As for this thread, stick a fork in me I'm done