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TScottW99
03-11-2007, 12:52
Shedding light on concealed handguns

http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/trejbal/wb/108160

Removed to Protect the Innocent


:steamed:

Hope you understand, Scott...RussP

TScottW99
03-11-2007, 13:00
Just in case anyone wants to send snail mail. The author of that lovely piece of garbage can be contaced at his house.........

CHRISTIAN J TREJBAL
675 SCHOOL LN
CHRISTIANSBURG, VA 24073

:supergrin:

hokieglock
03-11-2007, 13:07
i wouldn't get worked up about this, trejbal is just helping bring more people to our side. he's a stupid pin-headed libtard with nothing better to do than try and hurt the citizens of this great state. he's exposing himself for what he is.

hokieglock
03-11-2007, 13:15
i just included the directions to his house in my response, let's see if my comment makes it.

G30Jack
03-11-2007, 19:53
You have got to be kidding me...

That assclown needs a superglue enema

iiibbb
03-11-2007, 19:59
comment deleted

TScottW99
03-11-2007, 21:37
In case anyone wants his work e-mail....

christian.trejbal@roanoke.com

RussP
03-11-2007, 22:03
Hopefully this will result in a law forbidding the publishing of such personal information.

Here is the results of the poll...

http://www.fototime.com/1127FA83903B6B4/standard.jpg

RussP
03-11-2007, 23:04
The link to the Roanoke Times Publishing Standards

http://www.roanoke.com/newsservices/wb/xp-59614#1

:upeyes:

TScottW99
03-11-2007, 23:38
Originally posted by RussP
The link to the Roanoke Times Publishing Standards

http://www.roanoke.com/newsservices/wb/xp-59614#1

:upeyes:

yeah gotta love this...

Simply put, our future depends on our credibility.

Those who turn to us for news and information need to believe not only in the accuracy of what we print, post or record, but in our commitment to community service, to journalistic excellence and to the highest ethical standards.

iiibbb
03-12-2007, 06:25
You know... for someone so concerned that one of us might come unhinged... he is awfully brave to do something that might piss 1/130,000 of us off.

iiibbb
03-12-2007, 07:06
Dear Mr Trejbal:

I don't agree that it was right to print this article. Gun owners who have concealed carry are the most concerned about following the law yet you equate us to child molesters. I have known people who carry who are _not_ on your list. Who's the bigger threat to the public? You state that town council members who carry ought to be avoided so as not to annoy them. If permit-holders are so dangerous that they might shoot someone who annoys them, you sure are taking a risk by annoying all of them aren't you?

I don't even know what to say to you. It was obviously lost on you that some people have these permits to protect them from a violent past. I'm not one of these people. I'm just someone who carries a pistol with me while hunting and wished to follow the letter of the law if I ever put it in my backpack. I don't really care if people know if I carry, but I also don't know what business it is of someone in Richmond, Staunton, or Danville. I also don't like the idea that my home might be specifically targeted for theft. I hope you realize there will be more guns and fear on the street because of what you've done, rather than less.

According to the comments page you claim this discussion is best suited for the VA legislature. Well, why didn't you interview anyone in the legislature and ask them why it was publicly available. Instead your shot is across the bow of some of the least-threatening, most law-abiding people in the state. You're article, which is supposedly about the public domain, implies that states that allow CCW have more crime. Is it not possible that there is more CCW because there is more crime?

To sum it up. I hope someone finds a way to sue you and your paper. I hope that you are blessed with the knowledge if someone actually dies because of this article. Gun-control advocates often say "if it saves just one life, it's worth it to get rid of guns". I guess the corollary question would be, "If it harms one life, was it still worth it?"

Sporwick
03-12-2007, 09:22
I have written a letter as well. Does anyone know if the VCDL or NRA is getting involved in this yet? Even considering getting involved?

iiibbb
03-12-2007, 09:26
They are... if you are a member of VCDL they'll send you email updates.

MD2010
03-12-2007, 09:37
You know I kept putting off my membership to VDCL...mainly out of laziness i guess. Just signed up with my credit card. This guy is an arrogant, sanctimonious son of a ***** who couches his political liberalism and self-righteousness in his Hurst style writing. There is nothing responsible about his journalism and I am enraged at the way he has portrayed gun owners. His lack of decorum towards others is mind boggeling and I intend to write him an email this afternoon once I calm down a little.

RussP
03-12-2007, 11:44
Yes, VCDL was on this yesterday. An alert will be sent to members when they have something to report.

RussP

G30Jack
03-12-2007, 11:48
Chris Trejbal
Editor, Roanoke Times

Born: 9/15/1970
2502 FAIRWAY DR SW
ROANOKE, VA 24015
(540) 400-0343
Property listed under the name "AC Denton"

675 SCHOOL LN
CHRISTIANSBURG, VA 24073
He just bought it for $115K

1 008764 497- 15 27,28 TREJBAL CHRISTIAN J 675 SCHOOL LN CHRISTIANSBURG
675 SCHOOL LN CHRISTIANSBURG VA
24073 SPRADLIN ADD LOTS 27,28 SPRADLIN ADDITION 27,28
0859-0225 2006 008321 $25500 $64200 $89700 $0 CS R3 CR060400 13-JUL-06
$116000 1.5 1948 6 3 1 812 1314 TREJBAL SCHOOL 116000 [polygon] 26226



All public record. Turnabout is fair play

RussP
03-12-2007, 11:49
I'd like to ask that we do not post the link to the list.

The fewer places it resides, the better it is for us on the list.

Thank you

:cool:

G30Jack
03-12-2007, 12:25
You mean this link?


VA CCW Database (http://www.vikingkittens.com/)


:wavey: Hiya Russ!:supergrin:

G30Jack
03-12-2007, 12:41
And I think the comments thingy is broken now.

Sporwick
03-12-2007, 12:45
Originally posted by G30Jack
And I think the comments thingy is broken now.

I think so too. I was reading it and i closed it by accident and now it wont re-open that section. He was responding on there.

Sporwick
03-12-2007, 12:47
Has anyone tried to access the list? I just tried it and it says "no data." Is it possible that it has now been removed?



EDIT: Sorry, it wasnt taken down. It was just acting up.

TScottW99
03-12-2007, 12:59
Mark Taylor an outdoor writer for the Roanoke Times; has written an article about this this...

http://blogs.roanoke.com/wildlife/shooting/i_invested_quite_a_bit.html

Mark has a place to post on this topic.

MD2010
03-12-2007, 14:44
I posted on Mark's article and I sent an email to Mr. Trejbal regarding his arrogance and ignorance.

mayberrypd
03-12-2007, 15:06
Roanoke Area Guys,

Watch the WDBJ7 news tonight.

mouser
03-12-2007, 15:44
LIST PULLED - see this thread (http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=669393)

Slinger646
03-12-2007, 16:14
Anyone have a list of advertisers?

mouser
03-12-2007, 16:23
I asked that question earlier, on the other thread. No one's listed any yet. I tried to find a few on the website, but have only found Verizon. We need a paper to try to get the local advertisers.
I'm not expecting to find any Roanoke Times in Alexandria, unfortunately.

I think the paper also needs to understand that their columnist will be expected to be held accountable should anyone be harmed from that irresponsible, arrogant, bullying (he didn't think he would be at any risk for getting in CCW's faces) jerk. Maybe VCDL will have an idea as to how to have law enforcement look at possible reckless endangerment charges.

iiibbb
03-12-2007, 17:05
http://www.roanoke.com/gunpermits/


The Roanoke Times Removes Database of Handgun Permit Holders

March 12, 2007 — The Roanoke Times has decided to remove the online database of registered concealed handgun permit holders from its website.

The newspaper is requesting the Virginia State Police, which provided the information, verify the data.

“When we posted the information, we had every reason to believe that the data the State Police had supplied would comply with the statutes. But people have notified us that the list includes names that should not have been released,” said Debbie Meade, president and publisher of The Roanoke Times. “Out of a sense of caution and concern for the public we have decided to take the database off of our website.”

The database was posted on roanoke.com on Sunday as part of a New River Valley editorial page column about open records. This column, as well as others that will be published this week, is part of a special focus on Sunshine Week, a national initiative to raise awareness about open government and freedom of information.


http://blogs.roanoke.com/roundtable/columns/comment_on_trejbals_column_12.html

Slinger646
03-12-2007, 17:52
Ive found these:

http://www.dixiebuildingproducts.com/

http://www.windowworldinc.com/

I think VCDL is on this as we speak.

RussP
03-12-2007, 19:45
There should be an apology somewhere in their words...BUT, I ain't putting money on it.

:upeyes:

Hunterjbb
03-12-2007, 22:19
what more can you say..

Amazing how stupid some folks can be on purpose. He wanted sensationalism, he got it.. I just really truly pray that no one suffers ill effects from this however doubtful that may be. Oh geez.. there i go bringing religion into it.. i should be ashamed.. NOT..

geez..

Jeff.

Slinger646
03-13-2007, 04:56
Dont let this thing stall guys, keep emailing and harassing people....I want this guy in the unemployment line.


Dont let the momentum of Zumbo, HR1022 and the DC ban be lost :rock:

dbrowne1
03-13-2007, 09:06
I have not looked into this at all legally, but I'm wondering why the VSP sent them this information in the first place, and if it was proper for them to release this information at all. I'm sure there are others looking into it.

fohmix
03-13-2007, 11:20
I'm no legal expert, but I am hoping that someone finds a way to form this into a class action suit against the RT and/or Christian.

Nothing like being sued by 130K+ Virginians who have proved themselves to be law abiding citizens!

Auburn
03-13-2007, 11:55
Originally posted by MD2010
You know I kept putting off my membership to VDCL...mainly out of laziness i guess. Just signed up with my credit card. This guy is an arrogant, sanctimonious son of a ***** who couches his political liberalism and self-righteousness in his Hurst style writing. There is nothing responsible about his journalism and I am enraged at the way he has portrayed gun owners. His lack of decorum towards others is mind boggeling and I intend to write him an email this afternoon once I calm down a little.
I just joined VCDL today too...as the direct result of this situation.

dbrowne1
03-13-2007, 12:25
Originally posted by fohmix
I'm no legal expert, but I am hoping that someone finds a way to form this into a class action suit against the RT and/or Christian.

Nothing like being sued by 130K+ Virginians who have proved themselves to be law abiding citizens!

Not gonna happen. First Amendment almost certainly protects them on this one. If anybody made a mistake, and can be sued, it will be the Commonwealth.

bhart89
03-13-2007, 12:32
I went to the Roanoke Times site today and clicked on a link to all of their employees and I could not find the origional author of the story on CHP's. Maybe they let him go? Anyone know if this is true?

Goaltender66
03-13-2007, 14:09
You know...

I noticed Roanoke.com has a privacy policy:

http://www.roanoke.com/newsservices/wb/xp-59616

In it there are terms and conditions for people who submit content. One of those conditions is:

"You agree not to submit Content...That includes personal or identifying information about another person, or uses the name or likeness of another person for commercial purposes, without that person's explicit consent;"

Pity Trejbal and the editorial board of this paper can't be bothered to abide by the terms they demand from everyone else....


ETA: Another nugget from their privacy policy:

We will not disclose any personal information without your advance permission except when we believe the law requires us to do so or the disclosure is necessary to protect the rights or property of Times-World Corp.

I don't believe they got my advance permission before they disclosed my personal information on their website.....

iiibbb
03-13-2007, 18:05
deleted

mayberrypd
03-13-2007, 20:21
Originally posted by Auburn
I just joined VCDL today too...as the direct result of this situation.

+1, I should have done it a long time ago and have put it off. They are great, every gun owner in VA should do what they can to support them.

Jerseycitysteve
03-14-2007, 06:44
I'm going to reactivate my membership myself! Even though I don't agree with the VCDL's methods 100% of the time, thier action in Roanoke deserves every Virginia gun owners support!

Way to go Phil!:thumbsup:

MADISON
03-14-2007, 07:23
I am curious...
Does anyone have a copy of the 135,000 persons with CCP/CCW, they would E-Mail me. The names only! Without the addresses and Social Security Numbers.
I do not accept private mail so, post and I will let you know how to get it to me.

Gunfixr
03-14-2007, 15:32
Actually, it is illegal to put out or post the addresses, phone numbers, or places of employment of crime victims, or the same of the victims and family of domestic violence, family violence, or sexual crimes. As some CHP holders fall under this group, it was illegal to post their addreses, and it was illegal for the state police to give them to him. I already have an attorney looking into it, as we fall into this category.

TScottW99
03-14-2007, 16:20
If you have some time to hit all the companies that do business with the Roanoke Times here is the list....

http://www.roanoke.com/BizListings/

Slinger646
03-14-2007, 16:30
We have received your e-mail regarding the Concealed Handgun Permit database, and your comments are important to us.



We removed the database from our website on Monday afternoon. At this time, we have no plans to publish this information again.



Our editorial content this week will continue to promote Sunshine Week, and the importance of open government and public records.



Regards,



Dan Radmacher

Editorial Page Editor

The Roanoke Times

Auburn
03-14-2007, 17:51
Here's a great editorial I found over on ARF from the local newspaper in Shelbyville TN:

link (http://www.t-g.com/story/1193670.html)

Publishing addresses legal, but not right
Wednesday, March 14, 2007
By Brian Mosely

You might not have noticed, but this is Sunshine Week, where news outlets across the country focus on the importance of open government and public records.

This is a good idea, since an Associated Press survey of all 50 states found that open meetings and records laws are "sporadically enforced," and that "penalties for failure to comply are mild and violators almost always walk away with nothing more than a reprimand."

This writer and many of my co-workers over the years have dealt with this situation at one time or another. Secret meetings and the refusal to release documents are still encountered in this business, although not as frequently as in the past.

But a Virginia paper used this occasion not to expose wrongdoings or to call for accountability in their local governments. Instead, the Roanoke Times used Sunshine Week to justify publishing the names and addresses on their website of over 135,000 people in the New River Valley who has a concealed handgun permit.

To those who would say that it is none of the public's business if someone is packing heat, the paper's editorial writer, Christian Trejbal, disagreed by saying "the government handles the permitting, it is everyone's business."

"There are good reasons the records are open to public scrutiny. People might like to know if their neighbors carry. Parents might like to know if a member of the carpool has a pistol in the glove box. Employers might like to know if employees are bringing weapons to the office."

Trejbal even admitted that some of the data was probably inaccurate, but they published it anyway. One part of the editorial really stuck out though: "A state that eagerly puts sex offender data online complete with an interactive map could easily do the same with gun permits, but it does not."

Well, Mr. Trejbal, that's because sex offenders are convicted criminals, where as citizens who have applied for a handgun permit are not. What is disturbing is that Mr. Trejbal appears to be equating law-abiding gun owners with perverts, which says a lot about his mind-set.

Why not post everyone's name and address on welfare and food stamps, or post the medical records, names and addresses of everyone who uses Medicaid? Should we post how much each taxpayer pays or owes? How about we post everyone's driver's license numbers, Social Security information and the names and addresses of everyone who ...

You see where this is going ... I'm sure identity thieves would love those types of stories. It is obvious that the only reason Mr. Trejbal wanted this information published is his anti-gun bias, because his column also included this:

"This is not about being for or against guns. There are plenty of reasons people choose to carry weapons: fear of a violent ex-lover, concern about criminals or worry that the king of England might try to get into your house."

Ho, Ho.

Actually, this could save the lives of area criminals since the paper might as well have titled the gun permit list "People You Should Not Mess With." They could have been even more helpful had they published a map of places to avoid ... and homes less likely to be dangerous to break into. Perhaps they should print maps of people with expensive jewelry, rare coin collections, and valuable artwork as well.

To say there was an outcry from the public over the paper's move would be an understatement. On the newspaper's Internet message board, there were complaints from law enforcement officials who have concealed-carry permits for when they are off-duty. It would appear they are not too happy about having their names and addresses published so that anyone with a grudge can find them and their families.

One message came from a women who claimed that her ex-husband had used the list to track her down and had already contacted her. "I've moved twice to get away from a violent ex. Now I have to move again. I really appreciate you publishing my address. Gee, thanks."

On Monday afternoon, the paper pulled the database from its site. The president and publisher of the Roanoke Times, Debbie Meade, said that she was "concerned enough about complaints from readers to act out of an abundance of caution."

"Our concern is that if the information should have been protected, and it wasn't, then we don't want to run it," Meade said.

But the damage has already been done. If even one person is harmed due to the actions of this writer and the editors, it wouldn't be too difficult to imagine a class action suit being filed over such an invasion of privacy.

The fact is, there's a big difference between using your job as a journalist to uncover the truth and to harass citizens whose choices you disagree with by publishing their addresses for the world to see. The Sunshine Laws are there so we can have transparent government, not so a reporter can "out" those he or she ideologically opposes.

What Mr. Trejbal did may have been legal ... but that doesn't make it right. Instead, it was very, very wrong.

RussP
03-14-2007, 20:44
Originally posted by Slinger646
We have received your e-mail regarding the Concealed Handgun Permit database, and your comments are important to us.
We removed the database from our website on Monday afternoon. At this time, we have no plans to publish this information again.
Our editorial content this week will continue to promote Sunshine Week, and the importance of open government and public records.

Regards,
Dan Radmacher

Editorial Page Editor

The Roanoke Times Received the same email....:upeyes:

RussP
03-14-2007, 20:51
Originally posted by MADISON
I am curious...
Does anyone have a copy of the 135,000 persons with CCP/CCW, they would E-Mail me. The names only! Without the addresses and Social Security Numbers.
I do not accept private mail so, post and I will let you know how to get it to me. MADISON, why don't we just let the list fade away...

Thanks...

dbrowne1
03-15-2007, 10:45
Originally posted by Gunfixr
Actually, it is illegal to put out or post the addresses, phone numbers, or places of employment of crime victims, or the same of the victims and family of domestic violence, family violence, or sexual crimes. As some CHP holders fall under this group, it was illegal to post their addreses, and it was illegal for the state police to give them to him. I already have an attorney looking into it, as we fall into this category.

They weren't posted as such, or identified as such. Their employers weren't posted, either, as far as I know.

If I post your name in the paper because you won the lottery, or because you were crowned the county fair queen, the fact that you also happen to be a prior victim of a crime is irrelevant. You don't get put on a "no publish" list just because you were victimized before, if the reason for publishing your name has nothing to do with your prior victimization.

Let me know what your attorney finds. I strongly suspect that there is no recourse against the paper, only - maybe - against the Commonwealth for releasing the info in the first place.

Gunfixr
03-15-2007, 12:36
The names of employers weren't posted, niether were their phone numbers. I was merely loosely quoting the law which states that posting any of that info is illegal. And not listing them as crime victims doesn't matter. The point is that perpetrators have a right to know who their accusers are but generally only their names. If victims have moved and gotten a CHP to escape a perpetrator, the Perp would now be able to know exactly where they are. One lady, responding in the comments section of the newspapers' website, said that her vilent ex didn't know where she lived as she had moved twice. He had seen her name and address on this posting and had already contacted her, now she was going to have to move again. My family is the victim of a sexual crime against my son. We had moved since, and the convicted perp, who is now free, didn't know where we now lived. I have an unlisted unpublished number so he cannot just look me up in the phone book. This creep may now know where my son lives. Lottery winners do not have their addesses posted per law to keep greedy theives away. You can't get anything from DMV.

vafish
03-15-2007, 18:52
I'm actually a little concerned.

That list was supposed to have been accurate as of the 18th of January IIRC.

I checked as soon as the web site had it posted. My name wasn't on the list. I've had a permit for over 5 years and renewed well before the 18th.

Does that mean the State Police will think my permit is invalid?

mayberrypd
03-15-2007, 19:12
Originally posted by vafish
I'm actually a little concerned.

That list was supposed to have been accurate as of the 18th of January IIRC.

I checked as soon as the web site had it posted. My name wasn't on the list. I've had a permit for over 5 years and renewed well before the 18th.

Does that mean the State Police will think my permit is invalid?

I have been wondering the same thing. My name was on the list but several friends of mine weren't. I also wonder (and this is just me, a very mild hypothesis) if the State Police only have the permit information on anyone that has used the permit to bypass the 30 law. The 135,000 number seems a little low but I have a hard time judging since everyone I know and deal with has one. It is on the form and we have to input the information in the computer when running a background check. When the law was first introduced the VSP would request a faxed copy of the permit almost everytime the person used it the first time. The only reason I wonder this is because the only people I have ran into (a couple of close friends) that werent on the list said they have never used their permit to buy a gun. Again it is just a theory, with not real support. It just seems wierd since all of the paperwork is done through the local courts and issued by the local courts, of course since it is linked to your DMV records the State should have an accurate report.
Consider yourself lucky, atleast you weren't on the list!
Regards
Mayberry

longwatch2k1
03-15-2007, 23:40
Originally posted by vafish
I'm actually a little concerned.

That list was supposed to have been accurate as of the 18th of January IIRC.

I checked as soon as the web site had it posted. My name wasn't on the list. I've had a permit for over 5 years and renewed well before the 18th.

Does that mean the State Police will think my permit is invalid?
Could be you may be in the gap before your paperwork hits the system. But at the VCDL meeting tonight PVC brought up that someone had some trouble over a situation like yours.

watsoncb
03-16-2007, 17:59
I just joined. I should have some time ago. :shocked:

Did anyone "capture" the list? I would like to know if I made the hit parade.:steamed:

RussP
03-16-2007, 18:29
Originally posted by watsoncb
I just joined. I should have some time ago. :shocked:

Did anyone "capture" the list? I would like to know if I made the hit parade.:steamed: watsoncb, the fewer copies of the "list" that survive, the better.

If you have a CHP and want to know if you are on the list, call the VSP office in Richmond and ask.

We need to let the "list" fade away...

:cool:

longwatch2k1
03-16-2007, 18:43
Originally posted by RussP
watsoncb, the fewer copies of the "list" that survive, the better.

If you have a CHP and want to know if you are on the list, call the VSP office in Richmond and ask.

We need to let the "list" fade away...

:cool:
Thats the problem though, we can't do anything about the list because anyone can get it, being a public record and all. Ignoring it won't make it go away or remove the danger it poses.

RussP
03-16-2007, 19:37
Originally posted by longwatch2k1
Thats the problem though, we can't do anything about the list because anyone can get it, being a public record and all. Ignoring it won't make it go away or remove the danger it poses. True, longwatch2k1, it isn't the long term problem, but as I said, the fewer "lists" out there....

This coming week I plan on meeting with a senior Senator to discuss the long term solution to our problem.

:cool: