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ColGlock
03-15-2007, 14:17
A little Background, A few years back the leader of a certain Ohio based ccw group, wanted to obtain the List of FL CCW permit holders with the intention of soliciting them for donations. this person was over ruled at the time based on the feeling that this would be seen as sleazy and an abuse of the system...

http://www.cleveland.com/concealed/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/117394911998201.xml&coll=2



gee...

Pro gun journalist' seeks lists of permits
Wants records for statistical study
Thursday, March 15, 2007
John Caniglia
Plain Dealer Reporter

A gun-rights group critical of journalists who have published lists of conceal-and-carry permit holders is now seeking the same information.

Jeff Garvas, president of Ohioans For Concealed Carry Inc., has asked the state's sheriffs for -- and in some cases has received -- the names and addresses of the permit holders, citing his role as a journalist. The group, which lobbies in Columbus, produces a newsletter and has a Web site.

Under the law, only journalists -- not the general public -- can obtain the information but they cannot copy it. The requests highlight the increasingly murky definition of journalists in the age of the Internet.

pjb829
03-15-2007, 15:07
A few years back the leader of a certain Ohio based ccw group, wanted to obtain the List of FL CCW permit holders with the intention of soliciting them for donations. I'm not sure what excuse was given to the Sheriff's, but I would bet a serious amount of money one of the non-spoken goals of OFCC was to solicit Ohio license holders for memberships and donations. In fact, I would bet that soliciting Ohioans for money was the primary goal, and the claim of compiling a statistical analysis was just the excuse to try to get the Sheriff's to comply.

I'll flat out admit that I have a jaded opinion of OFCC leadership, but to stoop to this level not only surprises me, it is exceptionally disappointing. The anti-gun crowd has to be jumping for joy and will use this demonstration of double-standards to undermine the pro-gun credibility with the legislators.


Pete.

Collin
03-15-2007, 15:35
This is certainly dissappointing.

ohioselfdefense
03-15-2007, 17:26
Originally posted by Collin
This is certainly dissappointing.

It certainly is. I guess all of these articles against the media access loophole were just BS.

http://www.google.com/custom?domains=www.ohioccw.org&q=media+access&sa=Search&sitesearch=www.ohioccw.org&client=pub-5790994880306023&forid=1&channel=2810036266&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3 A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1&hl=en

PennaOhio
03-16-2007, 18:07
Before you all get your panties in a bunch read their website. I post there as 'McM' and I didn't like it one bit.

What they were trying to do was to show the exploit of the journalist loophole which doesn't close until the end of the month. Here's a thread..

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=9301

I disagree with the method, but the result was an Ohio sheriff filing a lawsuit about the law being too vague.

The ends don't justify the justify the means, but I think it'll workout this time... I still don't like it though.

Cruiseron
03-16-2007, 18:41
OFCC had a plan and it worked! What have you done lately to advance CCW in Ohio?
http://www.ohioccw.org/content/view/3841/83/:thumbsup:

Ninj500
03-16-2007, 19:28
Personally?

Well, I organized all three open carry defense walks in the Columbus area, had over 30 pro gun articles published in places like CNSNews.com, Nranews.com, Nra.org, zogby.com, Columbusdispatch.com, Frontpagemag.com, organized the first two years of the Party in the Park, organized the anti-Taft pro-ccw protest when Bush came to Ohio during the 2004 campaign, appeared on Capital Square three different times debating the gun issue, appeared on all three Columbus networks numerous times supporting gun laws, also appeared on the news in other cities, been quoted more times than I can count in the Ohio and national media, attended more meetings with legislators than I can count to as an advocate for CHL and pro-gun laws, was the 2nd Amendment coordinator for Blackwells campaign, worked on the pro HB347 press release for Strickland's campaign, worked as OFCC central Ohio coordinator and then Buckeye Firearms Association Central Ohio coordinator, got Chuck Taylor to write an article for the OFCC newsletter, worked both the Buckeye Firearms Association fund raisers at TDI, helped organize several central Ohio meet and greets attended by countless politicians, helped organize a pro-gun candidate forum at Blackwing shooting center, attended nearly every hearing on HB347, and that's about all I can remember.....

Would that qualify me to pass judgment on what OFCC did?
Funny thing is I don't have an opinion because I don't know all the facts. I do know questioning someone's ability to judge what a pro-gun group did has nothing to do with whether they've lifted a finger to work for gun rights.

If you want to believe what OFCC is saying it is your right to do so. Again, I don't have an opinion. But, just as you have the right to your opinion others have the right to theirs.

ColGlock
03-16-2007, 19:37
Originally posted by Cruiseron
OFCC had a plan and it worked! What have you done lately to advance CCW in Ohio?
http://www.ohioccw.org/content/view/3841/83/:thumbsup:

umm... A heck of alot more than you have.

Catalina
03-16-2007, 20:03
Is this the bash OFCC board?

Cruiseron
03-16-2007, 20:07
Originally posted by ColGlock
umm... A heck of alot more than you have.
Excuse me! Have we met? I personally have no reason to write a resume of what I do for CCW in Ohio.

Ninj500
03-16-2007, 20:08
Not from me, I don't have a problem with OFCC and left the group on good terms. Instead, the guy that commented, " have you lifted a finger for gun-rights lately" upset me.

OFCC knows why it did what it did. I have to trust there was a sound basis for their decision.

However, we all help in our own way and some can't afford the time to help fight for gun-rights and voting is all they can do to help. Because of their possible physical, emotional or financial limitations they shouldn't have their dedication attacked.

Everyone can make their own opinion about OFCC, that's not my business.

ColGlock
03-16-2007, 20:34
Originally posted by Cruiseron
OFCC had a plan and it worked! What have you done lately to advance CCW in Ohio?
http://www.ohioccw.org/content/view/3841/83/:thumbsup:

Hmm...
The primary driving force behind this effort was to perform statistical analysis on a dataset of those that have received CHLs.

B.S.

Number one they have no Stats people in ofcc.

Number two, OFCC has been trying to get that list since 4/21/2004

Number Three, Now The Plain Dealer is using this as "proof" that the list should be made public.

ColGlock
03-16-2007, 20:42
Originally posted by Cruiseron
Excuse me! Have we met? I personally have no reason to write a resume of what I do for CCW in Ohio.

Probably not that is why I am safe in assuming that I have done more than you have...

of course, How many Presidents have you met in person? How many Secretary of State's have you shot with, Attorney Generals, etc.?

jabeatty
03-16-2007, 21:00
Originally posted by ColGlock

of course, How many Presidents have you met in person? How many Secretary of State's have you shot with, Attorney Generals, etc.?
Be sure to format your resume properly:

"Secretaries of State"

and

"Attorneys General"

XDSpring
03-18-2007, 13:26
The only problem I see from an outsider stanpoint is the public perception. Even if OFCC did it to force the lawsuit that isn't how it's playing in the media. WHen the Cleveland Plain Dealer uses the actions of a pro-gun group as a great example of why the license holder information should be public it makes it much harder to close the loophole. Pro-gun people have to remember that the average person only reads the newspaper, not OFCC's website. So they only read what the jackass publisher of the Plain Dealer writes.

That means even with the best intentions it might look wrong to the general public. And it's the general public that can make or break a gun law/ccw reform.

ohioselfdefense
03-18-2007, 16:43
Originally posted by XDSpring
The only problem I see from an outsider stanpoint is the public perception. Even if OFCC did it to force the lawsuit that isn't how it's playing in the media. WHen the Cleveland Plain Dealer uses the actions of a pro-gun group as a great example of why the license holder information should be public it makes it much harder to close the loophole. Pro-gun people have to remember that the average person only reads the newspaper, not OFCC's website. So they only read what the jackass publisher of the Plain Dealer writes.

That means even with the best intentions it might look wrong to the general public. And it's the general public that can make or break a gun law/ccw reform.

Cheers & Jeers
Friday, March 16, 2007

CHEERS . . .

to Jeff Garvas, head of Ohioans For Concealed Carry Inc., for going after Ohio's silly law that keeps information on concealed weapons permit holders off limits to all but journalists. Garvas' group puts out a newsletter and has a Web site, so, he figures, he can classify himself as a journalist. The more, the merrier. The information should be available to all Ohioans.

http://www.cleveland.com/politics/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1174034438292580.xml&coll=2

northcoast
03-22-2007, 06:48
Something about them requesting the list rubbed me the wrong way too.

I read the OFCC forums, but I'm not a member for two reasons. Sometimes I think their website is a bit sensationalistic -- that it goes down to the level of anti-ccw side. There was one article a while ago with the title something like "Columbus bans guns!" when really it was about guns in parks. I know they can write whatever they want, however they want, but in my opinion they could be more balanced (even when, and especially when, the other side isn't).

Second, when you sign up for the forums you choose whether or not you would like to receive email from OFCC. I chose "no". Well I still get email from them when they think it is something "really important". To me, no means no.

Maybe petty, but they get to two larger issues for me - debate the issues fairly, and respect people's privacy.

They do think they do a lot of good, though.

Northcoast.

jabeatty
03-22-2007, 07:46
Originally posted by northcoast
Second, when you sign up for the forums you choose whether or not you would like to receive email from OFCC. I chose "no". Well I still get email from them when they think it is something "really important". To me, no means no.
You should be able to go HERE (http://oldlists.ohioccw.org/mailman/listinfo/ccw-alert)to unsubscribe from the Alerts list.

northcoast
03-22-2007, 07:50
Originally posted by jabeatty
You should be able to go HERE (http://oldlists.ohioccw.org/mailman/listinfo/ccw-alert)to unsubscribe from the Alerts list.

Thanks...but I'm not subscribed to the alert. My (admitedly whining) complaint was that on a few occasions I received messages even though I'm not subscribed to the alert listserv.

Northcoast.

northcoast
03-22-2007, 08:38
Just to be clear, given the choice I'll GLADLY take CCW and an unsolicited email or two as opposed to no CCW, which is where I bet Ohio would be without OFCC.

Northcoast

ColGlock
03-22-2007, 08:50
Originally posted by northcoast
Just to be clear, given the choice I'll GLADLY take CCW and an unsolicited email or two as opposed to no CCW, which is where I bet Ohio would be without OFCC.

Northcoast

So you approve of them illegally spamming people?

northcoast
03-22-2007, 09:32
Originally posted by ColGlock
So you approve of them illegally spamming people?

I get 100s of spam messages from people who have done nothing for me. :supergrin: OFCC sent me a few uncolicited emails, apologized when I called them on it, and IMO, did a whole bunch towards me being able to CCW.

So while I don't approve of the practice, and haven't joined OFCC partly bc of it, I think they've done a lot of work for CCW and I didn't want my comments to make it seem that I don't appreciate that.

Northcoast.