Ohio Hollowpoints

[elderboy02]

I know this may have been talked about already, but are hollow points legal in Ohio? I have always heard that they were but some people I have talked to say that they are not.

[RickJZ]

They are legal In Ohio.

[Turtle Dude]

Originally posted by elderboy02
I know this may have been talked about already, but are hollow points legal in Ohio? I have always heard that they were but some people I have talked to say that they are not.

perfectly legal, I would consider it negligent to load a home defense handgun or a carry piece with hardball

[elderboy02]

Originally posted by Turtle Dude
perfectly legal, I would consider it negligent to load a home defense handgun or a carry piece with hardball

Thats what I think too. That is why I have HST's.

[firedog978]

I don't think it's 'negligent' at all. Center of Mass is not as common as some believe to get a through and through.
I do carry JHP in my ccw's simply as an additional precaution to ricochet. That's more likely outdoors than a t&t but, home defense, it doesn't even enter my mind. My usual carry weapon is G23 (40S&W), and when carrying it is loaded with JHP. At home (bedside), it has a mag of fmj (hardball).
FYI, I sometimes carry a KT P-32 (32ACP) that is flawless with fmj (hardball) and I never worry about t&t with that cal.. I do concern slightly about ricochet. I do not feel it to be 'negligent' though at all.

[anyplainjoe]

Originally posted by firedog978
I don't think it's 'negligent' at all. Center of Mass is not as common as some believe to get a through and through.
I do carry JHP in my ccw's simply as an additional precaution to ricochet. That's more likely outdoors than a t&t but, home defense, it doesn't even enter my mind. My usual carry weapon is G23 (40S&W), and when carrying it is loaded with JHP. At home (bedside), it has a mag of fmj (hardball).
FYI, I sometimes carry a KT P-32 (32ACP) that is flawless with fmj (hardball) and I never worry about t&t with that cal.. I do concern slightly about ricochet. I do not feel it to be 'negligent' though at all.

FMJ will likely go thru a bad guy, Not slowing him as much as a HP would. It then can still travel thru walls, and might hit someone innocent. I'm concerned and the law holds me liable for all my shots.

[firedog978]

Originally posted by anyplainjoe
FMJ will likely go thru a bad guy, Not slowing him as much as a HP would. It then can still travel thru walls, and might hit someone innocent. I'm concerned and the law holds me liable for all my shots.

The law holds us ALL liable for ALL our shots. I have been on scene of more shootings than I can remember. I have seen everything from 22 to 45 to 12 ga. inflict gsw's on human beings. Believe what you care to, fmj will not go through a human being as often as you WANT to believe. Also, if you care to place 100% reliability in a round of ammo because it is HP or to state that it WILL slow down a human being more because it is a HP, you're living in a world of make believe. I suggest you live some real life before you debate this issue. Unless you too have seen human beings shot by the different rounds as often as some of us have. Shot placement is the determining factor in slowing a human being down much more so than fmj vs jhp.

[anyplainjoe]

Originally posted by firedog978
The law holds us ALL liable for ALL our shots. I have been on scene of more shootings than I can remember. I have seen everything from 22 to 45 to 12 ga. inflict gsw's on human beings. Believe what you care to, fmj will not go through a human being as often as you WANT to believe. Also, if you care to place 100% reliability in a round of ammo because it is HP or to state that it WILL slow down a human being more because it is a HP, you're living in a world of make believe. I suggest you live some real life before you debate this issue. Unless you too have seen human beings shot by the different rounds as often as some of us have. Shot placement is the determining factor in slowing a human being down much more so than fmj vs jhp.

You should reread my response!

I like your logic...since I'm not you, with your unique history, I'm unqualified to comment. I prefer to gather info from a variety of expert sources and not just rely on my own personal experiences. I like how some people in "macho" jobs love to say how no one is as smart as they are! Just cause you work for the government doesn't mean you're an expert.

"I suggest you live some real life", "Unless you too", trying to lock me out of the debate? What is the saying? If you can't fight the message, fight the messenger? I have lived real life, many years of it!

A HP has a greater chance of stopping than ball. That's a fact. If you want to shoot ball then your giving up a large portion of stopping power and the chance of the round zipping thru and continuing on increases greatly.

Everyone agrees shot placement is crucial.

[wc45069]

I've got to "assume" that if I can buy them at any store that carries ammo in Ohio, they're legal.

[firedog978]

Originally posted by anyplainjoe
You should reread my response!

I like your logic...since I'm not you, with your unique history, I'm unqualified to comment. I prefer to gather info from a variety of expert sources and not just rely on my own personal experiences. I like how some people in "macho" jobs love to say how no one is as smart as they are! Just cause you work for the government doesn't mean you're an expert.

"I suggest you live some real life", "Unless you too", trying to lock me out of the debate? What is the saying? If you can't fight the message, fight the messenger? I have lived real life, many years of it!

A HP has a greater chance of stopping than ball. That's a fact. If you want to shoot ball then your giving up a large portion of stopping power and the chance of the round zipping thru and continuing on increases greatly.

Everyone agrees shot placement is crucial.

Oh please! Rereading your response doesn't change what you said. It still is flawed logic.

I didn't say you're not qualified to comment. You just did that yourself. And, I have no 'macho' stigma attached to what I did for a living for over 30 years. But, it did put me front and center on what I saw well over 100 times from gsw's to a human being. That and having the good fortune (or misfortune) to witness any number of autopsies firsthand. You, who prefers to gather your info from a variety of expert sources, please be kind enough to refer to particulars. No, my job nor anything else has made me "an expert", nor have I indicated such. I dare say however, that I have seen the damage of the discussed rounds firsthand and have a far more indepth personal knowledge of what I am speaking of than you.

I'm not trying to lock you out of this or any debate. And, the reference to the messenger is a poor attempt at best, to better your position in it. The reference of mine to living real life was to not take such information from heresay, or unsubstantiated sources such as a brother's, friend's, co-worker's cousin. How many times have you seen a hardball round go through and through? How often have you seen the HP round stop a man hyped up on drugs right now? How often have you seen a fmj round in a vital spot and the damage it's done? How much of the real life you have lived ("many years of it"), placed you there to witness what you're debating?

The HP only has "a greater chance of stopping than ball" if it hits a vital organ and the ball does not. THAT'S FACT! And this final sentence of your's: "If you want to shoot ball then your giving up a large portion of stopping power and the chance of the round zipping thru and continuing on increases greatly."
I'll just let that go this time. I've answered it. Re-read my post.

Stopping power comes down to several factors. None of which is ball vs HP. If a shot of 9mm HP hits someone in a lung, and another shot of 9mm fmj hits someone in a lung, there would be no difference in 'stopping power'. If a shot of 9mm HP hits someone in a leg, and another shot of 9mm fmj hits someone in the lung, who would be 'stopped'?

Finaly, I have seen the same size rounds of both (HP & fmj) hit a human being. Yes, the HP makes a slightly bigger channel of tissue damage and usually has less penetration. But, unless it strikes a major organ or major blood vessel (key word 'major'), the bleeding difference is infinitesimal. Therefore, you have no better stopping power with one or the other. IT SIMPLY COMES DOWN TO PLACEMENT. Or, perhaps how many rounds you pump into someone.

Now you can make all the assumptions of me, or my job, or my attitude you care to, but that doesn't change any of the facts that I know to be. And btw, I did say I carry JHP's in my ccw weapons; but I do so more to prevent ricochet than through and through.

[anyplainjoe]

I can't believe I got sucked into a HP vs FMJ debate. I try so hard not to. Know what, no one is going to change any minds so you can win this one.

Experts? Off the top of my head, I've been studing the writings of Masaad Ayoob for about 15 years, plus a variety of other authors and studies. First hand experience-Numerious deer and other game I've killed or first hand seen in and alive-shot-dead transaction.

[firedog978]

So, you hunt deer with a handgun? We are discussing SD handgun ammo aren't we?
It isn't about winning. And, it didn't have to be personal.

[anyplainjoe]

I've hunted deer with handguns, shotguns, muzzleloaders, and archery.

All can give important info on the performance of difference styles of projectiles.

You made it personal by saying things like "I suggest you live some real life", "Unless you too".

I'm going to bow out of this thread as we're getting way off topic.

[firedog978]

[You made it personal by saying things like "I suggest you live some real life", "Unless you too".]
You call that personal? It was asking you to place a real life experience on your opinion. Even one. Which, you have not done. Deer and human beings are a bit tough to relate as to how each would be affected by the same round of ammunition.

Now the following was personal.


Originally posted by anyplainjoe
You should reread my response!

I like your logic...since I'm not you, with your unique history, I'm unqualified to comment. I prefer to gather info from a variety of expert sources and not just rely on my own personal experiences. I like how some people in "macho" jobs love to say how no one is as smart as they are! Just cause you work for the government doesn't mean you're an expert.

[anyplainjoe]

unsubscribing to this thread after this post...I'm here to talk about shooting in a fun manner.

[Blitzer]

Originally posted by firedog978
The law holds us ALL liable for ALL our shots. I have been on scene of more shootings than I can remember. I have seen everything from 22 to 45 to 12 ga. inflict gsw's on human beings. Believe what you care to, fmj will not go through a human being as often as you WANT to believe. Also, if you care to place 100% reliability in a round of ammo because it is HP or to state that it WILL slow down a human being more because it is a HP, you're living in a world of make believe. I suggest you live some real life before you debate this issue. Unless you too have seen human beings shot by the different rounds as often as some of us have. Shot placement is the determining factor in slowing a human being down much more so than fmj vs jhp.

Basically you are a know it all braggart and an :moonie: end of a bull.

[Blitzer]

Originally posted by firedog978
So, you hunt deer with a handgun? We are discussing SD handgun ammo aren't we?
It isn't about winning. And, it didn't have to be personal.

You are still an :moonie:.