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g5reality
03-29-2007, 00:20
Colorado Passes anti-CCW bill

quote:
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House Democrats pass anti-gun bill to guv

http://http://www.coloradosenatenew...nt/view/324/26/


Quote:
Wednesday, 28 March 2007

House legislators approved a Senate Democrat measure today barring Colorado residents on using out-of-state concealed carry permits for their self-defense needs.

The bill is now en route to Gov. Bill Ritter for consideration.
Senate Bill 34, by freshman Sen. John Morse, D-Colorado Springs, and House Majority Leader Alice Madden, D-Boulder, restricts Colorado’s recognition of valid out-of-state concealed-carry firearms permits. It passed in the House by a mostly party-line vote of 36-29.

Sen. Greg Brophy, R-Wray, expressed his displeasure of the bill’s outcome in the House.

“The Legislature has taken its first shot at the Second Amendment,” said Brophy after learning of the House vote on the proposal. “I’m anxious to see if the governor will stand up for the Second Amendment or not.”

During its Senate debate, SB 34 became an immediate, top-priority target of opposition from gun-rights groups led by the National Rifle Association.

Critics of the bill point out there is no point in creating another bureaucratic hurdle to concealed-carry permit holders arriving in Colorado from other states because, like permit holders in Colorado, they are overwhelmingly law-abiding citizens.

Democrat Senators Lois Tochtrop, of Thornton, and Bob Hagedorn, of Aurora, and Jim Isgar, of Hesperus, voted with a majority of GOP senators against SB 34 last month.

“What concerned me was that out-of-state valid permit holders who come to Colorado are breaking the law (under the bill),” said Isgar.

Republicans argued in the Senate that SB 34 should be re-written to expand current law so that Colorado would recognize every valid concealed-carry firearms permit issued to legal citizens of the United States.

“This bill is an unnecessary restriction on concealed-carry permit holders,” Brophy said. “I’m disappointed that it’s moving on.”
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Please contact:
Governor Bill Ritter
136 State Capitol
Denver, CO 80203-1792

Phone
(303) 866-2471

Fax
(303) 866-2003

Governor.ritter@state.co.us

http://www.colorado.gov/governor/contact.html

Let him know how you feel and that you don't want him to sign this into law.

Dandapani
03-29-2007, 05:38
Why was this posted in the Florida Club?

WGB
03-29-2007, 05:42
Originally posted by dmobrien2001
Why was this posted in the Florida Club?

Because it effects Flordia CCW rights?

Rusty Shackleford
03-30-2007, 07:08
Originally posted by WGB
Because it effects Flordia CCW rights?

Really? Here's what I read:

"House legislators approved a Senate Democrat measure today barring Colorado residents on using out-of-state concealed carry permits for their self-defense needs."

A resident of Colorado can still use a Florida permit while visiting Florida and I've seen nothing to suggest that FL residents cannot use their CCW permits while visiting Colorado. A link to the story that isn't broken, or a link to the bill in question would be helpful.

Gmountain
03-30-2007, 09:55
Originally posted by Rusty Shackleford
Really? Here's what I read:

"House legislators approved a Senate Democrat measure today barring Colorado residents on using out-of-state concealed carry permits for their self-defense needs."

A resident of Colorado can still use a Florida permit while visiting Florida and I've seen nothing to suggest that FL residents cannot use their CCW permits while visiting Colorado. A link to the story that isn't broken, or a link to the bill in question would be helpful.

I agree. I see nothing affecting the rights of Floridians.

chad10mm
03-30-2007, 15:35
I was under the impression that the bill was to require Colorado residents to have Colorado permits...something many, or maybe all?, other states require.

The quoted article has a lot of typical confusing/misleading media language...
restricts Colorado’s recognition of valid out-of-state concealed-carry firearms permits.

Critics of the bill point out there is no point in creating another bureaucratic hurdle to concealed-carry permit holders arriving in Colorado from other states

“What concerned me was that out-of-state valid permit holders who come to Colorado are breaking the law (under the bill),” said Isgar.

I'm on a lousy dial-up right now and can't do a bunch of checking, but I think all those quotes are wrong.

I don't want to condone any type of permitting for carrying firearms, but in the big picture I don't think this qualifies as "The Legislature has taken its first shot at the Second Amendment,”.

I think 2A supporters could better spend their time in more important areas.

Gmountain
03-30-2007, 16:26
So here is the text. It seems pretty innocuous to me. Lots of states do this, including Florida.




CONCERNING 101 CLARIFICATION OF RESIDENCY STATUS FOR THE PURPOSE
102 OF GRANTING RECIPROCITY TO CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMITS
103 ISSUED BY STATES OTHER THAN COLORADO.
Bill Summary
(Note: This summary applies to this bill as introduced and does
not necessarily reflect any amendments that may be subsequently
adopted.)
Clarifies that a person cannot use a permit to carry a concealed
handgun that is issued by another state if the person does not reside in the
issuing state.
SENATE SPONSORSHIP
Morse,
HOUSE SPONSORSHIP
Madden,
-2- 034
1 Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Colorado:
2 SECTION 1. 18-12-213, Colorado Revised Statutes, is amended
3 to read:
4 18-12-213. Reciprocity. (1) A permit to carry a concealed
5 handgun or a concealed weapon that is issued to a person twenty-one
6 years of age or older by a state that recognizes the validity of permits
7 issued pursuant to this part 2 shall be valid in this state in all respects as
8 a permit issued pursuant to this part 2 IF THE PERMIT IS ISSUED TO A
9 PERSON WHO IS:
10 (a) TWENTY-ONE YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER; AND
11 (b) (I) A RESIDENT OF THE STATE THAT ISSUED THE PERMIT, AS
12 DEMONSTRATED BY THE ADDRESS STATED ON A VALID PICTURE
13 IDENTIFICATION THAT IS ISSUED BY THE STATE THAT ISSUED THE PERMIT
14 AND IS CARRIED BY THE PERMIT HOLDER; OR
15 (II) A RESIDENT OF COLORADO FOR NO MORE THAN NINETY DAYS,
16 AS DETERMINED BY THE DATE OF ISSUANCE ON A VALID PICTURE
17 IDENTIFICATION ISSUED BY COLORADO AND CARRIED BY THE PERMIT
18 HOLDER.
19 (2) FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, A "VALID PICTURE
20 IDENTIFICATION" MEANS A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR A STATE IDENTIFICATION
21 ISSUED IN LIEU OF A DRIVER'S LICENSE.
22 SECTION 2. Safety clause. The general assembly hereby finds,
23 determines, and declares that this act is necessary for the immediate
24 preservation of the public peace, health, and safety.

chad10mm
03-30-2007, 16:50
Thanks GMountain...
It's not exactly what I recalled.

Clarifies that a person cannot use a permit to carry a concealed handgun that is issued by
another state if the person does not reside in the issuing state.

Requiring the residents of a state to have that state's permit is one thing...not recognizing whatever permit is held by the resident of another state seems to me to be against the intent of reciprocity statutes.

I'll check because I don't recall it, but you say Florida has this as well?

chad10mm
03-30-2007, 17:01
I found this...

790.015,(1)
(b) Has in his or her immediate possession a valid license to carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm issued to the nonresident in his or her state of residence.

Does that disqualify non-resident permits?
If so, of what use are non-resident permits?

Gmountain
03-30-2007, 18:59
Originally posted by chad10mm
I found this...

790.015,(1)
(b) Has in his or her immediate possession a valid license to carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm issued to the nonresident in his or her state of residence.

Does that disqualify non-resident permits?
If so, of what use are non-resident permits?

You have to read the whole statute.

790.01 says:
Carrying concealed weapons.--

(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person who carries a concealed weapon or electric weapon or device on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) A person who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) This section does not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06.

790.06 says:
90.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.--

(1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9). Such licenses shall be valid throughout the state for a period of 5 years from the date of issuance. Any person in compliance with the terms of such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm notwithstanding the provisions of s. 790.01. The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.

This is what you follow: If you have a Florida CCW (there is no distinction as to if you are a resident or not) then you have a valid Florida CCW and you can legally carry a concealed weapon or firearm in Florida. If you do not have a Florida CCW, then you must have a CCW from your state of residence.

Gmountain
03-30-2007, 19:01
Originally posted by chad10mm
Thanks GMountain...
It's not exactly what I recalled.



Requiring the residents of a state to have that state's permit is one thing...not recognizing whatever permit is held by the resident of another state seems to me to be against the intent of reciprocity statutes.



A state can pass any reciprocity statute it wants. The intent of the statute is determined by what it says.

chad10mm
03-31-2007, 06:09
I should have quoted the entire section...
Florida statutes:
790.015 Nonresidents who are United States citizens and hold a concealed weapons license in another state; reciprocity.--

(1) Notwithstanding s. 790.01, a resident of the United States who is a nonresident of Florida may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm while in this state if the nonresident:

(a) Is 21 years of age or older; and

(b) Has in his or her immediate possession a valid license to carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm issued to the nonresident in his or her state of residence.

(2) A nonresident is subject to the same laws and restrictions with respect to carrying a concealed weapon or concealed firearm as a resident of Florida who is so licensed.

(3) If the resident of another state who is the holder of a valid license to carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm issued in another state establishes legal residence in this state by registering to vote, or making a statement of domicile pursuant to s. 222.17, or filing for homestead tax exemption on property in this state, the license shall remain in effect for 90 days following the date on which the holder of the license establishes legal state residence. This section applies only to nonresident concealed weapon or concealed firearm licenseholders from states that honor Florida concealed weapon or concealed firearm licenses.

That would seem to say the same thing as the Colorado bill...
Colorado bill:


CONCERNING 101 CLARIFICATION OF RESIDENCY STATUS FOR THE PURPOSE
102 OF GRANTING RECIPROCITY TO CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMITS
103 ISSUED BY STATES OTHER THAN COLORADO.
Bill Summary
(Note: This summary applies to this bill as introduced and does
not necessarily reflect any amendments that may be subsequently
adopted.)
Clarifies that a person cannot use a permit to carry a concealed
handgun that is issued by another state if the person does not reside in the
issuing state.
SENATE SPONSORSHIP
Morse,
HOUSE SPONSORSHIP
Madden,
-2- 034
1 Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Colorado:
2 SECTION 1. 18-12-213, Colorado Revised Statutes, is amended
3 to read:
4 18-12-213. Reciprocity. (1) A permit to carry a concealed
5 handgun or a concealed weapon that is issued to a person twenty-one
6 years of age or older by a state that recognizes the validity of permits
7 issued pursuant to this part 2 shall be valid in this state in all respects as
8 a permit issued pursuant to this part 2 IF THE PERMIT IS ISSUED TO A
9 PERSON WHO IS:
10 (a) TWENTY-ONE YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER; AND
11 (b) (I) A RESIDENT OF THE STATE THAT ISSUED THE PERMIT, AS
12 DEMONSTRATED BY THE ADDRESS STATED ON A VALID PICTURE
13 IDENTIFICATION THAT IS ISSUED BY THE STATE THAT ISSUED THE PERMIT
14 AND IS CARRIED BY THE PERMIT HOLDER;

My point is this...
Without checking to see what states actually grant non-resident permits, but just as an example, say an Ohio resident has a non-resident Texas permit.
That permit would be invalid in Florida as well as Colorado.

I have often in the past heard/read of people getting certain non-resident permits so they would be valid in a large number of states.
So is that a complete waste of time or did I misunderstand their intent?

And as to reciprocity itself, if Florida has reciprocity with Texas why would it refuse to recognize a non-resident permit issued by Texas?(again just an example)
It just doesn't make sense except as something to illogically restrict carrying...a "because they could" amendment to the statute.

Sorry...way too long-winded...

Gmountain
03-31-2007, 06:55
Originally posted by chad10mm
I should have quoted the entire section...


That would seem to say the same thing as the Colorado bill...


My point is this...
Without checking to see what states actually grant non-resident permits, but just as an example, say an Ohio resident has a non-resident Texas permit.
That permit would be invalid in Florida as well as Colorado.

Right.

I have often in the past heard/read of people getting certain non-resident permits so they would be valid in a large number of states.
So is that a complete waste of time or did I misunderstand their intent?

That depends on the state. You have to look at on a state by state basis. There has been a flurry of reciprocity and CCW shall issue states in the past few years, so it is probably not as important as it once was. Nevertheless, fo people from states like New Jersey, where it is impossible to get a CCW, a Fl CCW gives them some means of carrying in other states, and certainly in FL. You have to check the laws in each state though.
And as to reciprocity itself, if Florida has reciprocity with Texas why would it refuse to recognize a non-resident permit issued by Texas?(again just an example)
It just doesn't make sense except as something to illogically restrict carrying...a "because they could" amendment to the statute.
Florida recognizes permits of the CITIZENS of other states, not the permit itself. The reciprocity is between the people of the states, not the piece of paper.

chad10mm
03-31-2007, 10:59
OK...
Thanks for the explanations.

I disagree with that law, but at least I 'get it' now.

Rusty Shackleford
04-01-2007, 07:55
Florida certainly makes some money on non-resident permits, and I imagine that accepting non-resident permits from other states would cut into that as well..

chad10mm
04-01-2007, 10:54
Originally posted by Rusty Shackleford
Florida certainly makes some money on non-resident permits, and I imagine that accepting non-resident permits from other states would cut into that as well..
That's probably true...we can't always ascribe evil anti-gun intentions to something that may be merely .gov piracy or extortion.
:supergrin: