Electronic Hearing Protection - PELTOR?

[dvas]

Hello All,

I know this topic was discussed more then once, so I would like to ask for some feedback at the end of long reading in different forums.

Currently, I am using non-electronic muffs from Peltor with NRR 30:
http://myweb.datahalland.se/w-15080/admin/picture/20050919155606.jpg

While being on outside range (shooting my G19), this is the only hearing protection, but I can not hear the conversation, and removing them all the time on and off is pain.

For that reason, I was looking for a high NRR electronic muffs with high NRR in price range of $160-$180.

Since I live in Israel, I can not just enter a store and try it, since these products are not available here, as far as I know.

After checking different manufacturers, like Peltor, Pro-Ears, Radians Maximus, and some others, I think about
Peltor Tactical Pro (http://www.aearo.com/pdf/comm/tacticalpro_full.pdf)
http://myweb.datahalland.se/w-15080/admin/picture/20050919155251.jpg
They have NRR of 26, not so expensive, single button for on/off (and not the volume button is used for turning them on/off), standard AA batteries,...

Any feedback is more then welcome, especially from the owners of this particular model :supergrin:

thanks,
Sasha :bowdown:

[Stance]

I've been using Peltor Protacs for something like 2-3 years now. I shoot pistols/revolvers a lot and those are IMO the best investment in shooting accessories I've done during the years. No problems of any kind, they even have the same battery that was in there when I bought them! Actually, before Protacs I had the same non electronic model as you. They were good in muffling the noise but like you said; it's a pain to chat with friends at the range when you either have to shout or remove the muffs all the time. Volume and on/off controls (three buttons in a row) are easy to use without taking muffs off your head.

Couldn't be happier! :)

[dvas]

Stance, thanks for sharing. Do you also have experience with other electronic muffs in order to compare?

:wavey:

[Wyoming]

A few years ago I rolled my ATV fourwheeler off a very high sand dune. As I watch my Kodiak smack several times on its way dowm, things kept flying off on every hit. One of those items was my Peltor 6 hearing muffs. No, they did not sirvive. However, when I sent them back to Peltor explaining to them the truth about how ATV and elctronic hearing propectors sometimes don't mix but could they repair these. There was no way that they could be fixed them but they sent me a new pair for FREE! You can bet that when I bought another pair of hearing protectors at the new Cabelas in Utah, the brand was Peltor 6.

Dale

[shooter454]

I have been using Peltor Tactical 6S muffs for three years and they are great. I am an instructor so they get used alot and have yet to let me down. They were lower end than what you are looking at so I would expect even better performance from the higher end ones. Have been around everything up to 50 cals and they have worked.

[Stance]

Originally posted by dvas
Stance, thanks for sharing. Do you also have experience with other electronic muffs in order to compare?

:wavey:

dvas, you are welcome! Unfortunately I don't have experience with other elec. muffs, can't compare.

[dvas]

:thumbsup: thanks all for your comments. I see from your experience Wyoming that Peltor is a company that values service and support to the customer. Good to know!

When I started to shoot for the first time outside, I still used those yellow ear plugs as well, on top of the external muffs, and I was feeling comfy with the sound suppresion. BUT, I was not able to hear anyone on the range. :sad:

So from sound suppressing perspective, I look for the best I can afford.

Will they cut the gun shot, but still pass-through the speech in the same time, as I read for some other models?

[Steve Koski]

First, stop doubling up your hearing protection when shooting outside. That may solve your problem right there.

[dvas]

Steve, as you probably know, hearing loss is caused by incremental damage. Further more, the 'noise disturbance' on the range is very subjective, and some may be more sensitive to it then others. I am one of those. Currently, I am not using double protection, but I want to.

Why do you suggest not to use it?

[Steve Koski]

Because nearly everyone on the planet can use 29-33 NRR hearing protection outdoors without ANY hearing damage/loss. That's what I use, and I can still hear my wife's watch tick across the room after 7 years in a steel mill and more than a decade of regular outdoor shooting.

And because doubling up 33 NRR hearing protection does not give you 66 NRR hearing protection. It's not additive, you only get marginal benefit from the additional protection. And if it's not doing anything for you except making you completley deaf, then what's the point.

Indoor shooting is another matter. Depending on the layout and concussion level, I'll use just muffs, or muffs over plugs.

I have heard of cases where firearms instructors that were subjected to 2000 hours of INDOOR gunfire a year had measurable loss with just a single muff (not sure if they were using the cheap-o 23 NRR muffs or decent 29-33 muffs).

[D. Manley]

Peltor Tactical 7S works for me. Ample NRR, Instant and very "soft" cutoff & return and can be worn comfortably for hours on end. Excellent battery life from the single 9V battery. If they were collapsible, they'd be perfect.

[Steve Koski]

Here's an interesting post:

http://list.uvm.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0211B&L=SAFETY&P=463

The quotes below are from:

https://www.nonoise.org/hearing/criteria/criteria.htm

Ideally, the most effective way to prevent NIHL is to remove the hazardous noise from the workplace or to remove the worker from the hazardous noise. Hearing protectors should be used when engineering controls and work practices are not feasible for reducing noise exposures to safe levels. In some cases, hearing protectors are an interim solution to noise exposure. In other instances, hearing protectors may be the only feasible means of protecting the worker. When a worker's time-weighted noise exposure exceeds 100 dBA, both earplugs and earmuffs should be worn. It is important to note that using such double protection will add only 5 to 10 dB of attenuation [Nixon and Berger 1991]. Given the real-world performance of hearing protectors , NIOSH cautions that even double protection is inadequate when TWA exposures exceed 105dBA.

Hearing protectors shall attenuate noise sufficiently to keep the worker's "real-world" exposure (i.e., the noise exposure at the worker's ear when hearing protectors are worn) below 85 dBA as an 8-hr TWA. [b]Workers whose 8-hr TWA exposures exceed 100 dBA should wear double hearing protection (i.e., they should wear earplugs and earmuffs simultaneously).†

I have no clue how to determine if outdoor gunfire could meet this criteria.

[dvas]

one more question to the owners of PRO TAC:

do muffs completely shut off the gun shot? or do they reduce the gun shot noise, while still passing the rest of the low volume sounds IN THE SAME TIME?

thanks,
Sasha

[dvas]

Originally posted by D. Manley
Peltor Tactical 7S works for me. Ample NRR, Instant and very "soft" cutoff & return and can be worn comfortably for hours on end. Excellent battery life from the single 9V battery. If they were collapsible, they'd be perfect.

The new model is MT15H7F SV that has Folding Headband. MIDWAYUSA is selling them for $179.99 here: MIDWAYUSA (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=665374)
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0007AB3SG.01-A2B2TXVNKFJH7I._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_V63320741_.jpg
and I found it also in Israel for the same price, but I need to add VAT (15.5%). THe problem is that the delivery time is around 2months.

D. Manley, since this is folding now, does it make for you a perfect muffs? :banana:

[ecmills]

Peltor makes excellent ones. For the money, I had to go with a set of Radians ProAmp's off of eBay. They were $55 vs. $90 if I bought htem locally at Bass Pro. Very happy with them so far. :)

[dvas]

ecmills, thanks for your feedback. Radians ProAmps have only NRR of 23dBa, that is not what I am looking for.

[f.2]

I'm going to try out these Sordin e-ears.

Sordin Supreme PRO (http://www.merchantmanager.com/tactical/MM046.ASP?pageno=37&aProds=SSP-EHP,SSP-EHP3)

http://www.merchantmanager.com/tactical/pics/MSA_Sordin_SP2m.jpg

[dvas]

I suppose you don't mind that the NRR is 21dBa only.

[Steve Koski]

Originally posted by dvas
ecmills, thanks for your feedback. Radians ProAmps have only NRR of 23dBa, that is not what I am looking for. And the Radians Pro Amps sit ON your ear, not over your ear. I found this to be uncomfortable after a fairly short time.

[f.2]

I'll try them out without double protection first, but I always use double anyway. Force of habit.

Originally posted by dvas
I suppose you don't mind that the NRR is 21dBa only.

[ecmills]

Originally posted by Steve Koski
And the Radians Pro Amps sit ON your ear, not over your ear. I found this to be uncomfortable after a fairly short time.
I must have smaller ears, since I wore 'em for the first time last Saturday for 6 hours, and they were no more uncomfortable than any other muffs I've worn.

[i-SHOT]

Gents, if I may....

For some time now I've been saying that the best sub $100 electronic ears has got to be the Peltor Tac Sports. They took the very best that they could from the higher priced ones and put it into a well price package. You can also upgrade these with the gel ear seals for excellent comfort:

Link to Peltor Tac Sports (http://www.ishot-inc.com/store2/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=44)

I've tested every single unit Peltor offered until coming to this conclusion. A defnite best buy. Here's more past discussion about this from the other forums:

SIG forum discussion (http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/207101067?r=207101067#207101067)

Arfcom forum discussion (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=19&t=289513&page=1)

Thanks ;)

[Steve Koski]

Originally posted by ecmills
I must have smaller ears, since I wore 'em for the first time last Saturday for 6 hours, and they were no more uncomfortable than any other muffs I've worn. Well, from the looks of my avatar...

[f.2]

Man these guys ship fast! I have my Sordins and I really like the ergonomics so far. The two AAA batteries have a screw cap that is perpendicular to the ear cup and you don't have to disassemble anything to get them in or out. The on / off and increase / decrease volume are rubber mounted "click" buttons that should be easy to use even with gloves. The amplification is very good. Cannot comment on long term comfort yet though I will post a range report here after I try them out at the range.

Originally posted by f.2
I'm going to try out these Sordin e-ears.

Sordin Supreme PRO (http://www.merchantmanager.com/tactical/MM046.ASP?pageno=37&aProds=SSP-EHP,SSP-EHP3)

http://www.merchantmanager.com/tactical/pics/MSA_Sordin_SP2m.jpg

[Joe D]

Koski looks like a taxi with the doors open. The ProAmps fit everyone I know. IMO they are the best buy in electronic muffs. Now just how do I know that? Could be because I have tried just about every model made.
I have two issues with the Peltors. One is the thin head band. If you stand in the sun very long the band will heat your head up through your cap. I don't care for the wires running from each ear cup. None of my other muffs have this.

[dvas]

Can you please recommend me an online shop to order PRO TAC that acually I can trust them and that they have in the stock?

thanks,
Sasha

[cassandra]

Now I'm looking for the kind of muffs Sasha was looking for to begin with in this thread, and I'm not finding them. It seems like even the priciest muffs do not approach the 30+ NRR you can get with standard non-amplified muffs.

The Radian Mossy Oaks come close at 29 NRR but they are so big and heavy I had to give them to DH.

Arent't there ANY good high-NRR amplified muffs out there? Those of us who already have damaged hearing can't get by with 21 NRR and ear plugs.

[dvas]

cassandra, a friend of mine is going to US end of May, so the plan is that he will bring them to me.... I can, if you are interested, provide feedback around mid June, when he comes back.

[cassandra]

Originally posted by dvas
cassandra, a friend of mine is going to US end of May, so the plan is that he will bring them to me.... I can, if you are interested, provide feedback around mid June, when he comes back.

Sasha, you mean the Tactical Pros, right? It's hard to find amplified muffs with 30+ NRR isn't it? I found some real expensive ones somewhere but lost track of the brand.

[dvas]

cassandra, I agree. even the ones that I saw in the range of $250, where not NRR30 or close. That is the reason for me going toward tac pro. I do expect to use double protection, in spite what the others think.

[cassandra]

So I broke down and ordered <a href="http://www.gundogsonline.com/hearing-protection/electronic-hearing-protection/pro-ears-promag-plus-dimension-1.html">these</a> because they are NRR 33, the highest you can get. I just hope they're not too big and heavy!

I tried the Radian ProAmps at a shoot last night, and I could definitley tell the diff between the 23 NRR and the 28 or so NRR you get from cheap Silencio passive muffs.

And I will still use double protection too b/c I can't afford any more hearing loss.

[dvas]

Originally posted by cassandra
So I broke down and ordered <a href="http://www.gundogsonline.com/hearing-protection/electronic-hearing-protection/pro-ears-promag-plus-dimension-1.html">these</a> because they are NRR 33, the highest you can get. I just hope they're not too big and heavy!

I tried the Radian ProAmps at a shoot last night, and I could definitley tell the diff between the 23 NRR and the 28 or so NRR you get from cheap Silencio passive muffs.

And I will still use double protection too b/c I can't afford any more hearing loss.

When are they suppose to arrive?

[cassandra]

Originally posted by dvas
When are they suppose to arrive?

5-7 days. I expect them next week. It shipped today, going from Connecticut to Montana.

[dvas]

Originally posted by cassandra
5-7 days. I expect them next week. It shipped today, going from Connecticut to Montana.

Did you get them?

[cassandra]

Originally posted by dvas
Did you get them?

Oh yes I did. Sorry I forgot to check back with you. They are very high quality--the head band is much easier to adjust than the Omni Radians for one thing, and have a comfortable pad. The ear padding is very comfortable also and doesn't crush my ears the way some others did. However, I confess to being vain and they looked very big and geeky on me though they were not heavy at all.

So my husband took them and I sent for the Pro Ear ProSlims, which were thinner and only 28 NRR. They are also very comfortable to wear. But I am going to help out at a shooting class Sunday so I am borrowing the 33 NRR set from DH.

Both models have some sort of jumper adjustment to really damp down the noise, I think for industrial use. Both hold max dB down to 70 which is much better than all the rest that I looked at which held it to 85 dB usually.

Both models cost 235 from Gundogsonline.com in Connecticut and the guy there, John Dean, was very helpful and responsive. He got each set to me in 2 days, and that was free shipping by priority mail.

I'm convinced these two Pro Ear sets are the best out there. Everything else seemed like a step down. The more deluxe Pro Ear models have radio and audio jacks, that's the only difference I think.

Oh, one drawback is that they use these weird N batteries which I never heard of before. Easy to install though.

[dvas]

thanks for sharing... can you post the direct link, so i can see both models exaclty?

[cassandra]

Originally posted by dvas
thanks for sharing... can you post the direct link, so i can see both models exaclty?


these are the 33 NRR proMags
http://www.gundogsonline.com/hearing-protection/electronic-hearing-protection/pro-ears-promag-plus-dimension-1.html



these are the 28 NRR ProSlims

http://www.gundogsonline.com/hearing-protection/electronic-hearing-protection/pro-ears-proslim-plus-dimension-1.html

[glock-ewe]

I also have the Pro Ears Pro Mag Plus Dimension. Bought them for the same reason as you, and I also use double protection.

One suggestion: If you keep your muffs in your gun bag like I do, pull the knobs off the on/off level controls. Mine would tend to turn on when carrying the bag. Without the knobs on I have no problems.

[dvas]

I was supposed to order my set this week, but my friend's trip to US was canceled, so I have some more time for my final decision, at least until I find someone else....

I realized from a friend of mine, that throughout the winter, there are lot of IPSC competitions (that I intend to participate in when i finish my training), and on few it was raining... How are Pro Tacs under rain?

[glock-ewe]

Originally posted by dvas
How are Pro Tacs under rain?

I have not shot with them in the rain so do not have first hand experience. However, they seem well sealed so expect that they would have no problems. I wouldn't go swimming with them on though. ;)

[cassandra]

Originally posted by glock-ewe
I have not shot with them in the rain so do not have first hand experience. However, they seem well sealed so expect that they would have no problems. I wouldn't go swimming with them on though. ;)

I thought he was asking about the Pro-Tacs?

If you mean the Pro Ears, I was using DH's ProEar ProMags in a class Sunday and we had quite a lot of rain, no problems. I do wonder if the volume knob could go bad in a downpour though..

[glock-ewe]

Originally posted by cassandra
I thought he was asking about the Pro-Tacs?

You are right, sorry for the incorrect response.

[dvas]

I finally got my ProTacs from US (via friend) last week, so I wanted to share my first feedback:

1. It came in a cardbox, with a very brief manual. The manual doesn't state some important information, that I managed to get in last few days from Peltor via email:
- I check about usage under rain:"...headsets are rain & weather resistant, but not weather/rain proof. The best way to avoid damage from moisture is maintenance. After exposure to rain/high humidity/perspiration etc...we recommend that you remove the ear cushions and inner foam (they just pop out like a tupperware lid) to allow any moisture to evaporate..."
- after the above response, I asked about the removal of the ear cushions, since it is not documented, they sent me a word document titled "Tactical 6S Instructions" with the following content"
REPLACEMENT OF:
Battery OR Hygiene kits Instruction Sheet


• Hold the Ear Cup in the palm of your hand.
• Take your index & middle finger and insert it into the open hole in the ear cup.
• On the hard plastic hygiene ring inside the ear seal, you may feel a groove. Place fingers here.
• Pull on the hard plastic hygiene ring and press your knuckles on the gray foam that is also located in the ear seal.
• The seal is on tight to provide you with the most hearing protection. It is very tight, PULL HARD TOWARDS YOU.
• Ear seal should pop off.
• It is just as hard to put back on, we recommend putting it back on like a Tupperware lid. Start at one end of the headset and press your fingers around the rim until it is back on firmly. You will hear a SNAP (this confirms it is sealed).
• If you require further assistance, please contact us @ 1-800-665-2942.

I think Peltor should work better in the documentation area for their product.

Yesterday, I finally went to a range. This time, I went to a closed range, where mostly I shoot outdoors (next Friday).
To my great surprise, after having those yellow earplugs and the ProTacs, I was clearly hearing the conversations and the noise of the guns was down! :banana: Well worth the money, altough I didn't have experience with other models or makes to be able to compare.

This Friday, I will be outside shooting! Can't wait.

[proraptor]

I use the impact sports by Howard Leight....They are awesome and work just as good if not better than any other high end electronic muff...Everyone on snipershide started using them over their expensive muffs as they work really well and are super slim

Best part about them? $57 shipped....

[Joe Mamma]

Originally posted by Steve Koski
And the Radians Pro Amps sit ON your ear, not over your ear. I found this to be uncomfortable after a fairly short time.

I had a similar experience. But, it wasn't that they were uncomfortable, it was that they just didn't seal around my ear. I ended up returning them. I ended up with Peltor Comtacs, and have been very happy with them.

Joe Mamma