Meeting to discuss Proposal 174 (SHOOTING BAN!) [Archive] - Glock Talk

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luxone
04-11-2007, 09:53
I am sure that you are all fully aware of the fallout that will come if proposal 174 passes, so I am not going to get into that. If by chance you aren't, follow the links below.

Prop 174 (http://www6.indygov.org/council/proposals/2007/PROP07-174.PDF)
Indy Channel Article (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/11618164/detail.html)
Indy Star Article (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007704090408)


There is a local attorney by the name of Ros Stovall who worked in D.C. on pro-2nd issues who is offering to help us coordinate an effort to shoot this proposal down. We are meeting at his downtown Indianapolis office on April 12 at 6p.m. His location is 225 N. Delaware. If you care about being able to shoot in Marion County, and your 2nd amendment rights as a whole, you really need to attend this meeting!

I know that this info has been posted within a couple of other threads but I wanted to give it one of its own so everyone would have an opportunity to see it.

Please post here if you can atend so we can start getting an idea of how many will be present.

rhino465
04-11-2007, 10:09
Originally posted by luxone


We are meeting at his downtown Indianapolis office on July 12 at 6p.m. His location is 225 N. Delaware.

You might want to edit your original message. The meeting is this Thursday night, 12 APRIL, 2007, not in July. July is going to be a little too late.

luxone
04-11-2007, 10:13
Ooops, I got goofed up! But it isn't tonight either.

It is Thursday, April 12 2007 at 6p.m.

ericXD9
04-11-2007, 20:03
I will not be able to go to the April 12th meeting - but I will be at the meeting on the 17th. Please let me know if there's anything I should/could do between the two meetings. I'd be glad to help.

I live in Marion Co., and do not relish the idea of confiscating my child's BB gun.

rhino465
04-11-2007, 23:44
Originally posted by luxone
Ooops, I got goofed up! But it isn't tonight either.

It is Thursday, April 12 2007 at 6p.m.

Oops! You're right. I got the date, but I lost a day in my life!

toots shor
04-12-2007, 00:21
so if i am reading this correctly, and i'd like to believe i am, the only thing this law states is that firearms are not to be discharged except in self defense or at a government approved shooting range.

mpholic
04-12-2007, 06:25
Originally posted by toots shor
so if i am reading this correctly, and i'd like to believe i am, the only thing this law states is that firearms are not to be discharged except in self defense or at a government approved shooting range.

I think the biggest heartache here for most people is the "government approved shooting range". This puts the power of whether a range (or adequate private property) stays open in the hands of a politician with no checks or balances. That's abuse waiting to happen.

ericXD9
04-12-2007, 17:50
Originally posted by toots shor
so if i am reading this correctly, and i'd like to believe i am, the only thing this law states is that firearms are not to be discharged except in self defense or at a government approved shooting range.

I heard someone reading the text of the proposal (possibly Garrison on WIBC?) and they said that the ban applied to BB and pellet guns. Can anyone confirm or refute that?

Does anyone have a copy of this proposed tripe?

luxone
04-12-2007, 21:08
Originally posted by ericXD9
I heard someone reading the text of the proposal (possibly Garrison on WIBC?) and they said that the ban applied to BB and pellet guns. Can anyone confirm or refute that?

Does anyone have a copy of this proposed tripe?

Please tell me your joking about people having a copy of the prop!? I provided a link to it in this thread! Yes it applies to BB and pellet guns and anything else that fires a projectile. I just left a meeting where NINE people were discussing the course of action to take in fighting this ban.
NINE people!! There were NINE people who cared enough about their rights to come out and plan to fight this thing! Nine people coming up with ideas, placing phone calls to councilors, deciding what NINE people could do to stop this! 3 of them were Glock Talk users! While the rest of you are sitting on your laurels waiting for the next un-scientific poll that no one cares about to be posted on indystar.com, the rest of us will be out fighting for your rights. Voting in some stupid web poll does not make you an activist for the 2nd amendment! If you are in Marion County and are not planning how you're going to fight this thing you are no better than the gun banners you complain about. If we don't have at least 200 people at the hearing at 5:30 Tuesday April 17 at the City-County Building we will be in serious trouble! If this prop is approved You will not be shooting at your local range and you will not be shooting at your buddies property if it is within Marion County! Wake up! Sending in your dues to the Pro 2nd Amendment organization of your choice, posting in web forums, whining about anti 2nd laws, and voting in web polls is not going to stop the blatant attacks on our rights!

April 17,2007 5:30 p.m. City-County building room 260

epsylum
04-12-2007, 22:21
Originally posted by luxone
Please tell me your joking about people having a copy of the prop!? I provided a link to it in this thread! Yes it applies to BB and pellet guns and anything else that fires a projectile. I just left a meeting where NINE people were discussing the course of action to take in fighting this ban.
NINE people!! There were NINE people who cared enough about their rights to come out and plan to fight this thing! Nine people coming up with ideas, placing phone calls to councilors, deciding what NINE people could do to stop this! 3 of them were Glock Talk users! While the rest of you are sitting on your laurels waiting for the next un-scientific poll that no one cares about to be posted on indystar.com, the rest of us will be out fighting for your rights. Voting in some stupid web poll does not make you an activist for the 2nd amendment! If you are in Marion County and are not planning how you're going to fight this thing you are no better than the gun banners you complain about. If we don't have at least 200 people at the hearing at 5:30 Tuesday April 17 at the City-County Building we will be in serious trouble! If this prop is approved You will not be shooting at your local range and you will not be shooting at your buddies property if it is within Marion County! Wake up! Sending in your dues to the Pro 2nd Amendment organization of your choice, posting in web forums, whining about anti 2nd laws, and voting in web polls is not going to stop the blatant attacks on our rights!

April 17,2007 5:30 p.m. City-County building room 260

Sorry I have to work and pay bills. Everything is planned for the evening and that doesn't jive with my 2nd shift schedule. I did recently upgrade to a life member with the NRA though.

rhino465
04-13-2007, 00:43
I wish I could have been there. I would have been there, but I had to attend another meeting on related business.

4sarge
04-13-2007, 06:52
Originally posted by luxone
I just left a meeting where NINE people were discussing the course of action to take in fighting this ban.
NINE people!! There were NINE people who cared enough about their rights to come out and plan to fight this thing! Nine people coming up with ideas, placing phone calls to councilors, deciding what NINE people could do to stop this! 3 of them were Glock Talk users! While the rest of you are sitting on your laurels waiting for the next un-scientific poll that no one cares about to be posted on indystar.com, the rest of us will be out fighting for your rights. Voting in some stupid web poll does not make you an activist for the 2nd amendment! If you are in Marion County and are not planning how you're going to fight this thing you are no better than the gun banners you complain about. If we don't have at least 200 people at the hearing at 5:30 Tuesday April 17 at the City-County Building we will be in serious trouble! If this prop is approved You will not be shooting at your local range and you will not be shooting at your buddies property if it is within Marion County! Wake up! Sending in your dues to the Pro 2nd Amendment organization of your choice, posting in web forums, whining about anti 2nd laws, and voting in web polls is not going to stop the blatant attacks on our rights!

April 17,2007 5:30 p.m. City-County building room 260
Let me first applaud your effort and enthusiasm. I posted the Indy Star Poll info and did not attend the meeting and have no plans to do so. Yes, the Poll was ludicrous but it adds fuel to the fire to the uninformed. Most news reporters cannot tell the difference between a rocket launcher and a shotgun, to them everything is an evil automatic assault weapon. I'm concerned but I got smart and left Marion County (Detroit South) over a year ago and am no longer a registered Marion County Voter. I belong to the various gun orgs, vote responsibly and do what I can. You are Damn lucky that 1/3 of the concerned folks present were Glock Talk Members. I appreciate your enthusiasm but you have just begun to see what the Dem's have planned for Little LA. I appreciate your enthusiasm but tone it down a notch for GT members "pretty much preaching to the choir here" and save it for your CCC members. If you really want to be informed and outraged, check here
Indy Undercover (http://www.indyundercover.blogspot.com/)

epsylum
04-13-2007, 10:41
My dad just e-mailed me. He has been exchaning e-mails with her about this prop. She has changed the wording apparently to be less restrictive. I am trying to get the revised wording from him right now. She even asked about taking an NRA Basic Pistol class. :shocked:

We may be able to convert her. Well either that or she is blowing smoke up our ass. ;)

FThorn
04-13-2007, 10:46
Bottom line is, I just don't see this bill as being necessary.

epsylum
04-13-2007, 11:25
Here is the rewrite. Notice that about 2/3s of it is gone now.

It is a word file.

Also giving credit where credit is due, Brad Newgent (a lawyer and MCFG member) has been in direct contact with her and is pretty much responsible for the re-write.

Well poop, it will not allow me to attach it.

Here is all that is left of the prop now. The red is new.

CITY COUNTY COUNCIL PROPOSAL NO. , 2007

CITY OF INDIANAPOLIS-MARION COUNTY, INDIANA_______________________________

INTRODUCED: /2007

REFERRED TO: Rules and Public Policy Committee

SPONSOR: Councillors Mansfield, Gray, Nytes, Pryor and Bateman

DIGEST: A proposal for a General Ordinance amending Chapter 451, Weapons, of the Revised Code of the Consolidated City and County ____________________________________________________________________________

SOURCE:
Initiated by: Councillor Mansfield

Drafted by: Aaron E. Haith, General Counsel

LEGAL REQUIREMENTS FOR ADOPTION: POPOSED EFFECTIVE DATE:
Subject to approval or veto by Mayor Adoption and approvals


GENERAL COUNSEL APPROVAL: _____________________ Date: March 2, 2007

CITY-COUNTY GENERAL ORDINANCE NO. , 2007

A PROPOSAL FOR A GENERAL ORDINANCE amending the “Revised Code of the Consolidated City and County,” Chapter 451, Weapons and adding new sections restricting the use and discharge of weapons in the Consolidated City.

BE IT ORDAINED BY THE CITY-COUNTY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF INDIANAPOLIS AND OF MARION COUNTY, INDIANA:

SECTION 1. Chapter 451 of the “Revised Code of the Consolidated City and County,” is hereby amended by adding the words and figures that are underlined and by striking the language that is stricken through, as follows: and by adding new sections thereto, specifically, Sec. 451-7 and Sec. 451-8, as follows:

Sec. 451-2. Firearms generally.
(a) Except as provided in this section and in Sec. 7 of this Chapter, Wwithin the police special service district Consolidated City and County, it shall be unlawful for any person to fire off, shoot at another person or otherwise use any dangerous weapon for any purpose other than in defense of his life or the life of another person, or the protection of his property or property entrusted to him by another person, that property being lawful to possess, or for practice at a range under the supervision and operation of a governmental entity, or without the prior written approval of the department of public safety Sheriff.
(b) This section shall not apply to the United States Army, Navy or other aArmed fForces, the National Guard, or to any duly constituted and authorized law enforcement and peace officer of any governmental unit, or to manufacturers and to repair facilities for testing purposes within a private firing range.
(c) This section shall not apply to a properly zoned indoor firing range or a properly zoned retail gun dealer store.
(d) This section shall not apply to a conservation club organized and in existence as of January 1, 2007 whose mission includes education of safe firearms practices.
(e) This section shall not apply to activities on property that is at least five (5) acres and zoned for agriculture provided that the activities do not pose a danger to person, animal or property outside to the property's boundaries.
(f) This section shall not apply to private ranges which are restricted to the property owner's use or his or her immediate family and/or friends, for indoor use of air, spring, or otherwise activated implements, except anything activated by an explosive charge. However, the use of private property for such purpose may violate other Chapters of the Revised Code of the City and County.


Sec. 451-3. Discharge of weapons across public ways and in public places.
(a) It shall be unlawful to shoot across or upon any public street or place, or toward a public way from any private or public premises, any bullet, pellet, missile or object impelled from any gun, pistol, rifle or weapon operated by means of any explosive charge, or by springs, air pressure or other means, or impelled from a slingshot, or any other device having force directed by the user thereof.

SECTION 3. This resolution shall be in full force and effect upon adoption and compliance with I.C. 36-3-4-14.

The foregoing was passed by the City-County Council this day of , 2007 at : .m.

ATTEST:


She probably did not think this would get such negative attention or as much attention as it got. She has probably realized this it not a fight she wants to make right now and is giving in to save some face. She probably still wants something to pass so she has something with her name on it.

BTW

e-mail me if you want the full word file. er_oktane@hotmail.com

luxone
04-13-2007, 22:14
Originally posted by epsylum
Also giving credit where credit is due, Brad Newgent (a lawyer and MCFG member) has been in direct contact with her and is pretty much responsible for the re-write.

epsylum,
Now your going to make me blow my internet alias! I am Brad Newgent. I am not a lawyer. I am a member and the current president of Marion County Fish and Game (MCFG), a concerned father of two, and I have been the victim of your mighty Glock 21L in more than one bowling pin match!. Thank you much for the kind words and credit. I have worked very hard on fighting this proposal. I have taken time from my work and my family. I have been on the phone and communicated via email with Angela Mansfield and other City County Councilors over the past week in an attempt to get this thing down to something that respects our freedoms. That being said there are a few other soldiers who I know have put forth the same amount of effort, if not more, than I have. Those people are:

Thad Coyne
Chuck Bjork
Dan Moulder
Brian Shuff
Gerald Obrien
Beckie Madigan
Bob Madigan
Frank Sauer
Ros Stovall
Joe Viray (because he has that massive email list!)

If you ever have the opportunity to meet these people, take a moment to thank them. We have all worked diligently on this thing and we are not done with it! We still have a lot to do to see this thing beat. I'm sure I speak on all of the aboves behalf when I say that we need you to hammer ALL of the councilors with emails and phone calls over the next few days! Most importantly we need bodies at the hearing on Tuesday April 17, 2007 at 5:30p.m. in room 260 of the City County Building. They are feeling the pressure that we are applying! They have admitted that they had no idea what kind of firestorm they were tapping into! We can win this thing! Please send those emails and make those phone calls over the next few days! And for gods sake if you can make the meeting please be there. Bring your mom, dad and grandma! We need to pack the house! At the bottom of this post you will find a link to the page that lists all the councilors and their contact info.

Thanks,
luxone

City County Councilors contact info. (http://www.indygov.org/eGov/Council/Councillors/Biography/home.htm)

Ignition
04-14-2007, 14:05
(f) This section shall not apply to private ranges which are restricted to the property owner's use or his or her immediate family and/or friends, for indoor use of air, spring, or otherwise activated implements, except anything activated by an explosive charge. However, the use of private property for such purpose may violate other Chapters of the Revised Code of the City and County.




so basically if you want to shoot on your property your SOL? unless its a slingshot or airsoft???

Ignition
04-14-2007, 14:10
other than in defense of his life or the life of another person, or the protection of his property or property entrusted to him by another person, that property being lawful to possess, or for practice at a range under the supervision and operation of a governmental entity, or without the prior written approval of the department of public safety Sheriff.


not to mention now that we wont follow what the state of Indiana outlines for its views on using a firearm in defense of persons or property

and getting a permission slip from the public saftey sheriff... is this a elected position. and when did ranges come under govt control????

luxone
04-14-2007, 15:31
Ignition,
Yes the sheriff is an elected position and yes you are "SOL" for shooting on your own property unless you have 5+ acres of property. If you think the current version is bad, you should take a look at the original! These are issues we are still working on. We ultimately want this thing killed and if you want the same be sure to email and call all of the councilors and make an effort to be at the hearing on Tuesday April 17, 2007 in Room 260 of the City County Building.

luxone

sjstill
04-14-2007, 16:42
Unfortunately, I'm working until 7pm on Tuesday, but I've emailed my views to my CC member and spoken with him. Have emailed other CC members as well.

epsylum
04-14-2007, 23:19
Originally posted by luxone
epsylum,
Now your going to make me blow my internet alias! I am Brad Newgent. I am not a lawyer. I am a member and the current president of Marion County Fish and Game (MCFG), a concerned father of two

Doh!

Sorry about that. I was going off second hand info.

BTW I recognize more than a few names in that list, but I will try not to blow any more internet covers today. :supergrin:

Ms. Mansfield knows that our household isn't too happy about it. Again, I would be at the meeting, but I work 2nd shift. I would be at Rhino & Minuteman32's open carry nights too if it wasn't for my schedule. sjstill can attest that if it has antything to do with guns, I am usually there.

epsylum
04-14-2007, 23:32
Oh, this may already be covered, but do you have anything going about this on the hometown section of AR15.com? One guy there was going all out because the BMV took away has "COLT M16" license plate, calling reps and such. Seems like they might be some good allies.

rhino465
04-15-2007, 18:46
Some of us post pointers over there to topics here occasionally, but we usually don't get much interest. Most of the AR15.com Indiana people that respond to us are also reading here.

But it's a good point ... we should be sure to update that crowd too.