Is a .40 S&W enough?

[ogcujo]

I have an important question. I called Florida Fish & Wild Life Management with no help what so ever. I have 6 little kids that love the time playing in the back yard, but since Sunday I haven't let the kids go out side for nothing at all. The problem is. Theirs a frikin Bear that goes digging in my garbage and he's even charged at me, while on my way to the car. I have even seen a mountain lion/Cugar or some big cat about a month ago. I live in a rule area and the wildlife hear are keeping me from enjoying the out doors. I don't have much as in defense. I have a G22 40 S&W, my question is, is this enough to stop a bear/cugar?

[chemboy]

I would look for a heavy for caliber(180 or possibly 200 grain) load for your Glock 22. I carry a Glock 29 with 175 grain silvertips in the Idaho backcountry when I am hunting, we have many cougars and now wolves-I am confident that my gun and load would suffice, but for bear I would want something that penetrated deeper and expanded somewhat less.
I should think that a controlled expansion hollowpoint or better yet, a flatpointed FMJ would be suitable for your situation.

[J. Parker]

I don't have a problem using a G22 for bear defense. The good folks at www.doubletapammo.com have 40cal "woods loads" which I would use for cougar/bear defense.

~John

[TCUglock]

I'd go 10mm. Incredible power in that round.

Hard to beat without buying anything too ridiculous.


just my $.02

[ipscshooter]

I'm no hunter, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

No to the bear, maybe to the cat.

You may piss the bear off. If it's a handgun on him at minimum .44 mag with heavy bullets 300gr or so. I guess that would work on a cat to. I think I'd hustle down to the store and , if money is tight, buy a Remington 870 and a bunch of slugs.

[chemboy]

+1 to that last post!
A slug gun or a rifle would be better black bear medicine than any handgun, IMO.

[byf43]

Originally posted by ogcujo
I have an important question. I called Florida Fish & Wild Life Management with no help what so ever. I have 6 little kids that love the time playing in the back yard, but since Sunday I haven't let the kids go out side for nothing at all. The problem is. Theirs a frikin Bear that goes digging in my garbage and he's even charged at me, while on my way to the car. I have even seen a mountain lion/Cugar or some big cat about a month ago. I live in a rule area and the wildlife hear are keeping me from enjoying the out doors. I don't have much as in defense. I have a G22 40 S&W, my question is, is this enough to stop a bear/cugar?


The .40 S&W round can be enough, with proper shot placement!

For bear, mountain lion and/or cougar, I'd go with a 180 gr. JHP round that YOU are comfortable with, and that YOU can HIT with.
(Actually, for bear, I wouldn't use a .40 S&W alone. That would be my last resort option!)

Now, with that said, I strongly suggest picking up a pump action shotgun (my preference is Remington 870) and load it with Brenneke slugs.
These slugs are known for hitting hard and creating a large wound.

But. . . what is key here is a HIT.

Don't just buy the ammo and/or shotgun and ammo. Practice, practice, practice, until hitting the target is at least 90% or above and you know the firearm extremely well.

The one thing you DON'T need is a wounded, 'ticked off' wild animal bearing down on you and your loved ones!

Thanks for reading.

[ipscshooter]

Originally posted by chemboy
+1 to that last post!
A slug gun or a rifle would be better black bear medicine than any handgun, IMO.

A rifle with a big heavy bullet would be my 1st choice, but may be a bit pricey.

I accidentally shot a pepper popper with a slug out of my Benelli one time. Hellacious dent. PO'd the guy who owned the popper, but hey, it was an accident. :rofl:

BTW, ogcujo

lOOK UP BEAR HUNTING ON THE WEB ...SEE WHAT CALIBER COMES UP.

[ipscshooter]

from HUNTING MAGAZINE

Versatile, dependable cartridges such as (from left) 7mm Rem. Mag., .30-06 and .300 Win. Mag. will work for all black bear hunting.

[chemboy]

Something else to be aware of is although a fairly tough animal, a good deer rifle and bullet will put a black bear down cleanly if you do your part. You don't need a dangerous game rifle or big bore to kill a blackie.
If you were going to go with a rifle, a 30-06 with a 180gr Nosler partition would be ideal, again, in my opinion.

[ogcujo]

Oh man, thank you for reading and posting your thoughts, but to be honest I can't afford any guns at the moment. All I have is the Glock 22. Thank you guys, hopefully I can get a gun soon, but for the time being I'm afraid for the fam.

[sns3guppy]

The .40 is risky bet on a bear. Chances are very slim that you're going to see much success, against either the puma or the bear.

Your best bet will be a 12 gauge, and if you need a handgun, you shouldn't consider less than a .44. If you were to have a rifle, a .45/70 lever gun would be a great choice.

You've indicated a lack of funds. This being the case, you should invest in an OC spray for bears.

View this site for details:

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

Bear in mind (no pun intended) that pepper spray isn't a substitute for preventing a bear attack, or an equal to a .44 magnum or a 12 gauge rifled or sabot slug. More importantly, preventing the bear from entering the yard, fencing the yard, enclosing garbage in bear proof containers, educating children, increasing lighting, clearing brush or eliminating cover for animals, etc...all things that can't be made up for...gotta do your part.

Keep in mind that if wild animals are an issue in your area, you've moved into their environment. They aren't coming into yours. Act accordingly, and remember that when you move into an area of known hazard, you have choices; accept the conditions of living there, or move elsewhere.

[texasKA]

Originally posted by TCUglock
I'd go 10mm. Incredible power in that round.

Hard to beat without buying anything too ridiculous.


just my $.02

the 40 is more than enough. look at what a 9mm and 22 cal did at Va Tech. it is so sad.

[phox_mulder]

If all you have to use against a bear is the G22 .40,
aim for the right place, and practice hitting that spot repeatedly.


phox

[MrGlock21]

It doesn't hurt to keep a 12ga in the vehicle or in the garage.

Well, it hurts the bear :supergrin:

[jeremy1]

Shotgun is best in your case with 00 buck and slugs. The question is how big is the bear? A small black bear (less than 250 lbs) would be no problem for a hot .40 with a good shot placement. You probally wont get a clean kill with the bigger ones 400 + black bears with a .40.

Remember above all that a bear can charge at up to 25 mph for short distances and given the limited range of a hand gun it is definately not the best choice. If you miss or graze it they can close a 25 yard distance pretty quick. I have lived in bear country all my life and I keep a 12 gauge handy at all times along with bear spray.

With the 'domesticated' bears they are a threat to you and your family and will always come back if you just irritate them with the spray. They will always come back for the food.

I would definately light a fire under your local wildlife management and get them to use a live trap to capture and relocate the bear.

[Hellfire]

You need more. Go 12g 3" slugs.

[Halojumper]

Originally posted by ipscshooter
A rifle with a big heavy bullet would be my 1st choice, but may be a bit pricey.


A reasonable bear rifle doesn't have to be fancy or expensive. I don't see why an SKS wouldn't work, and it would be more convenient to have around the house than most larger rifles.

[bigbadj]

Originally posted by texasKA
the 40 is more than enough. look at what a 9mm and 22 cal did at Va Tech. it is so sad.
You Sir are a MORON.........:wavey:

[rfd339]

Originally posted by bigbadj
You Sir are a MORON.........:wavey: amen

[Tony Revel]

Originally posted by texasKA
the 40 is more than enough. look at what a 9mm and 22 cal did at Va Tech. it is so sad.


You Sir are self centered MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

[BAD BEAGLE]

ogcujo,

You have a lot of options... Nothing & I mean nothing beats a long gun. I am not discounting investing in some good .40 ammo, but you can not risk the safety of your family over a hundred dollars.

Option one... A single shot 12 Ga Shotgun from Walmart is less than $100 and a few boxes of Deer slugs & 00 buck. Or spend $80 more and get a pump gun...

Option two... Mosin Nagant 7.62 x 54R With almost 2600 Ft Lbs of energy it will take down a black bear and split that cat in half. Obviusly you still have to think about shot placement. Surplus Mosin's can be had for the price of a couple of boxes of high performance ammo... I paid $59 for mine, the ammo is inexpensive as well!

[ogcujo]

Originally posted by BAD BEAGLE
ogcujo,

You have a lot of options... Nothing & I mean nothing beats a long gun. I am not discounting investing in some good .40 ammo, but you can not risk the safety of your family over a hundred dollars.
Option one... A single shot 12 Ga Shotgun from Walmart is less than $100 and a few boxes of Deer slugs & 00 buck. Or spend $80 more and get a pump gun...

Option two... Mosin Nagant 7.62 x 54R With almost 2600 Ft Lbs of energy it will take down a black bear and split that cat in half. Obviusly you still have to think about shot placement. Surplus Mosin's can be had for the price of a couple of boxes of high performance ammo... I paid $59 for mine, the ammo is inexpensive as well!

I totally agree, I'm going to buy a 12 GA Mossberg 500 Pump tomorrow, and wait for it to come (it always does). I also called the police, and they said there is nothing they can do, but mention the FFWM has to take care of the problem due to the children... This is some crap! To be afraid of going out of your house. I left a bad neighborhood for some hoodlum bear to harass me. lol

[JTR]

Originally posted by byf43
The .40 S&W round can be enough, with proper shot placement!

For bear, mountain lion and/or cougar, I'd go with a 180 gr. JHP round that YOU are comfortable with, and that YOU can HIT with.
(Actually, for bear, I wouldn't use a .40 S&W alone. That would be my last resort option!)

Now, with that said, I strongly suggest picking up a pump action shotgun (my preference is Remington 870) and load it with Brenneke slugs.
These slugs are known for hitting hard and creating a large wound.

But. . . what is key here is a HIT.

Don't just buy the ammo and/or shotgun and ammo. Practice, practice, practice, until hitting the target is at least 90% or above and you know the firearm extremely well.

The one thing you DON'T need is a wounded, 'ticked off' wild animal bearing down on you and your loved ones!

Thanks for reading.
JHPs on a bear. Now that’s good advice.

If the G22 is all you have, then that’s all you have. Get some of the hot doubletap ammo as mentioned above with a hard cast bullet. Please don’t shoot the bear with JHP ammo. The cat shouldn’t be a problem.

I’d think a 375 H&H would work better though.;)

[mnglocker]

Originally posted by ogcujo
I totally agree, I'm going to buy a 12 GA Mossberg 500 Pump tomorrow, and wait for it to come (it always does). I also called the police, and they said there is nothing they can do, but mention the FFWM has to take care of the problem due to the children... This is some crap! To be afraid of going out of your house. I left a bad neighborhood for some hoodlum bear to harass me. lol

Heavy rifled slugs are your friend Sir. :thumbsup: The G22 with a mag full would work for a mountain cat up here in the north, but they only get to be 40-120lbs. Bears on the otherhand; I have a 45-70 lever gun for that and some fancy hot 405gr FNSP handloads.

[RLShield]

Originally posted by TCUglock
I'd go 10mm. Incredible power in that round.

Hard to beat without buying anything too ridiculous.


just my $.02

G20 would be a better gun. 15 rounds of 10mm.

[RLShield]

Originally posted by ogcujo
Oh man, thank you for reading and posting your thoughts, but to be honest I can't afford any guns at the moment. All I have is the Glock 22. Thank you guys, hopefully I can get a gun soon, but for the time being I'm afraid for the fam.

Can you call animal control and have the bear relocated?

[RLShield]

Originally posted by JTR
JHPs on a bear. Now that’s good advice.

If the G22 is all you have, then that’s all you have. Get some of the hot doubletap ammo as mentioned above with a hard cast bullet. Please don’t shoot the bear with JHP ammo. The cat shouldn’t be a problem.

I’d think a 375 H&H would work better though.;)

Up here in Alaska, a friend of mine shot a bear that had 6 .45 cal. bullets just under the skin of the bears chest. The bears up here are a lot bigger. Imagine 1500 to 2000 lbs of pure madness coming at you.

[ryan_kalani]

Get a bonded 180 grain round if you dont wanna buy another gun.

[sdsnet]

In addition to the suggestions folks have made in the previous posts a good dog present would give you some advance notice.

[Justin1584]

If the .40 is all you have at least it's better than nothing. Load it hot, full metal jacket.

I like the .44 magnum, but like the others said nothing really beats a long gun.

Stay safe.

[boganz45]

I would like to see what the Smith and Wesson 500 would do in this situation...

Go to Dunham's or your local sports store that sells guns and buy a cheap 7.62 AK there (or get a nice one if you got the cash). Then when the bear shows up, put two or so clips into him. Chances are he will not be standing after that. Later,

:banana:

[ipscshooter]

Originally posted by ogcujo
I totally agree, I'm going to buy a 12 GA Mossberg 500 Pump tomorrow, and wait for it to come (it always does).

Don't forget Remington 870 is a good gun. I have both and either will do.

You mention the bear is digging in your garbage. If the cans aren't sealed up with a lid they will go for easy pickings. Although, they will also tear off the lid if they can. Not sure your situation. Sport stores sell critter repellent? Might be an option.

FFWL ...I would call the local TV stations. They would love a story like this. A chance to expose a Government agency, kids involved, wild animals, it's got everything. Bet FFWL would respond after a news story on them. :rofl:

Good luck, and get that shotgun. Sell the Glock if you have to, but get a long gun for your family's sake.

[ipscshooter]

An additional note or two.

Try to get a shotgun that will accept 3" rounds. MORE POWER.

Also, you don't necessarily need Brenneke slugs or a rifled barrel. Brenneke slugs or Foster slugs will shoot from a smooth bore and are accurate out to 50-60 yards. Just make sure to get the right slugs for your barrel. Remington has a new 7/8 oz High Velocity foster slug that looks pretty decent. Not sure if it comes in 3".

I'm not so sure about 00 buck being effective. What you essentially would be doing is putting 8-9 pellets of .34" diameter into the bear. 9mm is .355 and .40 what it is. For dangerous game you need PENETRATION. A typical 9 or .40 runs in the neighborhood of 1000 fps and weighs 115 to 200gr., whereas the Remington slug above runs 1800 fps and weighs about 383gr. You do the math on foot pounds of energy and you see a handgun round is NOT even on the same planet, let alone in the ballpark.

[L Cast]

Ask yourself why is the bear coming to your house? Bears are attracted to food, garbage etc. Check around the yard and get rid of anything that a bear would like.

[casper975]

Would a .357 sig work if so then just buy a glock 31 barrel for it

[Jae]

Long time lurker first time poster.

Here is my opinion(s) long and short.

I traded my glock 22 for a S&W 629 for elk camp. However, I still carry my glock 27 while in the backwoods of Idaho and Washingtion. I would not hesitate to use it if I had to on black bear or cougar. I have shot a buffalo to attempt to finish it off AFTER a .308 head shot. There was much more penetration into the skull than I thought there would be and it stopped trying to kick me with it's back hoofs after that. The only other experience is on sheep which drop like a light switch is turned off. There was one sheep (last one) who really did not like what happened to the others and charged me. It was a good opportunity for one of those, "what do you do situations." I aimed for the head and got a body shot at 10 yds. It ran past me 5 yards and died. So, if it were a bear or cougar (which are tougher) it would have made it to me. All shots were with factory 155 gr silvertips which is what I find most accurate for me. I can't imagine you don't know someone with a rifle who wouldn't mine taking care of the problem. jmho

Thanks for reading.

[DuaneRN]

If it's worth shooting, it's probably worth shooting twice.

I'd empty the mag and then reload. .40 would probably be ok with ammo from doubletapammo.com, but I would still prefer a .357, 10mm, or .44.

Just remember that a handgun is what you have when you are not expecting trouble. I have shot deer with .300 win mag and had them run off before they died. I would hate to shoot a dangerous animal and get killed by them before they died.

[alreadydead]

I don't think we are taking appropriate account just how fast these animals are, I don't think from 50 ft you would have a chance from a draw. It is incredible how quick they are.

The situation my resolve as spring comes and other food sources become available.

I think your best bet is to get your Wildlife guys to trap the animals, then relocate them.

If I had to put a number on your chances of being effective with a firearm against a attacking Cougar, I would say less than 10%.

Get yourself a big dog, and bring him inside at night.

[usmcglock31]

Originally posted by texasKA
the 40 is more than enough. look at what a 9mm and 22 cal did at Va Tech. it is so sad.

That is the most rediculous comparison ever. Comparing humans to Black bears is not even close.

I agree with a previous poster that a .40 S&W would be a last resort defense, but better than none. Also, shot placement is key. I wouldn't intentionally go looking for the bear with a .40.

[ipscshooter]

Originally posted by usmcglock31
That is the most rediculous comparison ever. Comparing humans to Black bears is not even close.


Couldn't agree more.

Sometimes the comments just boggle the mind. :shocked:

[thehog]

Originally posted by texasKA
the 40 is more than enough. look at what a 9mm and 22 cal did at Va Tech. it is so sad.
I was going to call you a retard but even a retard would know not to make a comment like that. You sir are a friggin moron.

[Justin1584]

Originally posted by casper975
Would a .357 sig work if so then just buy a glock 31 barrel for it

No, get the Mossberg 500 or Maverick.

[racine]

I second the 12 ga. with slugs. I'd use a semi-auto and get an extended tube to hold 8 or more+ 1. I've seen too many guys short stroke a pump during stress and hold up whereas I've rarely seen semis cough. I'd had my 1100 since '97 and it's never hiccuped unless I deliberatly mess with it. If you limited get a 44, 454, 500, 45super, 40super, 10mm or at the very least use some 40sw corbons and get used to the kick. Shoot in competition and find out just how reliable your chosen bow & arrow hold up and go from there. BTW, always be aware of your neighbors when you chose to shoot...

[GSD17]

Originally posted by texasKA
the 40 is more than enough. look at what a 9mm and 22 cal did at Va Tech. it is so sad.

Hello,

You speak from your ass.

That is all.

[Dink74]

I would trade in the Glock for a Cobb .50 BMG if you want to stop that bear in one hit. :50cal: :rofl:

I bet the .40 would work just good placement and 180 grain FMJ would be my suggestion unless you really want a Cobb .50 as bad as I do. I told the wife it was for varmint hunting from a very long distance.

Dink :rofl:

[02Mineralgraygt]

FWIW i got my mossberg 500 persuader from Dicks sporting goods for 260 bucks, with the 7 round tube. not sure what type of slugs you can run through a non-rifled barrel though.

[Clem Eastwood]

Originally posted by texasKA
the 40 is more than enough. look at what a 9mm and 22 cal did at Va Tech. it is so sad.

one more vote for moron.

[mnglocker]

If anyone would like to try a Glock of any size on a bear; I do have a front sight tool I'm willing to loan out so that you can remove that front sight in order to make the guns contour smoother for when the bear takes it and shoves it where the sun don't shine. ;)

[Wordsmith]

Does anyone here remember that news story from last year about the guy who woke up to find a black bear in his kitchen? The bear chased him through the house and up the stairs, with the guy shooting at it repeatedly with his .40 Glock (while on the run, of course). It apparently took a lot of rounds, but the bear eventually went down.

Personally I'd try to find a good deal on a shotgun or a .44 magnum.

[mnglocker]

Originally posted by Wordsmith
Does anyone here remember that news story from last year about the guy who woke up to find a black bear in his kitchen? The bear chased him through the house and up the stairs, with the guy shooting at it repeatedly with his .40 Glock (while on the run, of course). It apparently took a lot of rounds, but the bear eventually went down.

Let me finish this for you.


The bear eventually went down after it turned and lumbered down the stairs and had been shot in the jugular.

This guy was lucky as heck, he should have played the lottery.

[9mmMick]

Originally posted by bigbadj
You Sir are a MORON.........:wavey:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

But anyway...My Opinion: 41, 44 or 454 Casull.
I would love to have a reason to buy a Taurus Tracker in .44 Mag.

[Hellfire]

Very glad you're going with the 12g. For those touting the .40's bear dropping prowess...."it's more than enough"... Ruger makes the .454 Alaskan as a last ditch back up gun for bear. It's a snub nose to assist with mobility if you're "up close and personal" with a bear. IT'S A .454 CASULL! You can launch a 240-300gr bullet at 1850-1600fps. Go rent one at your local range and feel the difference. If you think a .40 is "snappy".......:animlol: you have NO idea what "snappy" is. It's a BEAR people, if the man is asking for advice-his kids are around for God's sake-don't reply if you're not sure what you're talking about. And don't come back with the stupid "shot placement" argument. Yea if I caught the bear hibernating and shot him in the eye point blank a .22 might do it..... Glad you got the 12g, in this case more is better.

[SDGlock23]

The .40 S&W will take black bear, no doubt. It may not be the best choice, but it will work. Use something 180gr or order up some DoubleTap 200gr XTP's or 200gr WFNGC cast bullets.

[boganz45]

Any gun could do it with enough rounds / shot placement, but be realistic here...

[MOHAA Player]

Originally posted by TCUglock
I'd go 10mm. Incredible power in that round.

Hard to beat without buying anything too ridiculous.


just my $.02 Very good advice for a good priced semi auto bear defense gun.Load her up with a heavy DT load.
MOHAA

[NickZac]

Originally posted by Kittydaddy
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

But anyway...My Opinion: 41, 44 or 454 Casull.
I would love to have a reason to buy a Taurus Tracker in .44 Mag.

If you are playing with a bear regarding a handgun, I would personally take a 454 Casull as I have always been told a .44 is the 'bear' minimum. A gun Ruger makes called the Alaskin is made just for this occasion and is available in 454 and .44. The 454 will also shoot 45 Long Colt.

[Hellfire]

Originally posted by SDGlock23
The .40 S&W will take black bear, no doubt. It may not be the best choice, but it will work. Use something 180gr or order up some DoubleTap 200gr XTP's or 200gr WFNGC cast bullets.

"No doubt"..how many black bear have you taken with your .40 S&W?........this is going to be good. Four, five? A couple for sure because you surely wouldn't be giving a man advice on protecting his kids from a BEAR on speculation alone would you?

[Ljay]

One of the best bear stoppers there are "Pepper Spray"
Many experts say this stops a bears instantly,

Too many cases where a bear is pumped full of bullets, and still goes on the attack :upeyes:

[Jae]

I don't understand the hostility here? The question was could the .40 be effective in a kill or be killed situation? Well, mine crono's at 1101 fps which is about 400 fp of energy (If I underatand things) at the barrel. I believe the standard for a hunting handgun is 1000 foot pounds at the muzzle so mine would be quite under powered and I am probably in trouble if I start to piss smokey off. However, I think the AK cannon (454 @ 1600FP) also had grizzlies in mind not just a 200lb black bear. Context matters here. Consenses is get a long gun to protect the family and self. Better yet, secure the area so the beast moves on. But, if in a pinch, kill or be killed I don't equate the .40 cal to a spit wad just very under powered for the job. Also, as to cats a Fish & Wildlife agent shot a cougar with a .40 last year (I think) as it was eating a families boxer in their back yard. It died.

[Ak.Hiker]

The number one thing you need to do is to get rid of what is attracting the bear to your yard. Garbage or dog food stored outside will bring a bear in just like a bait station. If all you have is a 40 S&W load it with the hottest FMJ load you can find. If you are going to live in an area with bears I would really suggest you get a shotgun. I bet a couple of loads of buckshot at close range would take care of your problem.

[Halojumper]

Originally posted by Hellfire
"No doubt"..how many black bear have you taken with your .40 S&W?........this is going to be good. Four, five? A couple for sure because you surely wouldn't be giving a man advice on protecting his kids from a BEAR on speculation alone would you?

So, based on that logic, nobody should recommend self defense loads either, unless they've actually shot somebody with them. There must be a whole lot more shooting going on there, than I realized. :upeyes:

[FlyBoy007]

Originally posted by ogcujo
I have an important question. I live in a rule area and the wildlife hear are keeping me from enjoying the out doors.


Anyone else get a kick out of this line?


I would move to a less rural area if the wildlife is buging you.:supergrin:

Sorry, I mean only to kid, Please no offence:hugs:

I just thought it amusing, I lived in Ft. Lauderdale for 6 years and the "wildlife" forced me to move to move to the country, now just safe.. gators, snakes, panthers, and bears.

Get a 12ga with 00buck or slugs and have a new rug for your kids.

Florida black bears are fairly small, 150-200lbs -+ so not to tuff. I have shot several using 12ga, .35Rem, and 30-06.

[SDGlock23]

Originally posted by Hellfire
"No doubt"..how many black bear have you taken with your .40 S&W?........this is going to be good. Four, five? A couple for sure because you surely wouldn't be giving a man advice on protecting his kids from a BEAR on speculation alone would you?

A guy took a black bear using a Glock 29 and Hornady factory ammo. There are .40 loads that meet or exceed those ballistics, so, it's safe to say that it could also take black bear. It's as simple as that bro.

[Hellfire]

Originally posted by Halojumper
So, based on that logic, nobody should recommend self defense loads either, unless they've actually shot somebody with them. There must be a whole lot more shooting going on there, than I realized. :upeyes:

If you look at the original post in big red letters the man states he has an important question to ask...he goes on to say he is concerned about the safety of six children that like to play outside and there is a bear around. This has the potential to be serious shoot situation, with the lives of children potentially at risk. The original poster seems genuinely concerned. If you have little kids you certainly understand you want the best chance of protecting them. Shot placement is fine and I am sure there are situations where you could take a black bear with a .40, but if MY kid's life is on the line I don't want to roll the bones on my ability to place a perfect shot on a charging bear that is bearing down on my 3yo daughter. Why risk it?

[Halojumper]

Originally posted by Hellfire
If you look at the original post in big red letters the man states he has an important question to ask...he goes on to say he is concerned about the safety of six children that like to play outside and there is a bear around. This has the potential to be serious shoot situation, with the lives of children potentially at risk. The original poster seems genuinely concerned. If you have little kids you certainly understand you want the best chance of protecting them. Shot placement is fine and I am sure there are situations where you could take a black bear with a .40, but if MY kid's life is on the line I don't want to roll the bones on my ability to place a perfect shot on a charging bear that is bearing down on my 3yo daughter. Why risk it?

So what does that have to do with my statement that you quoted?

[Wordsmith]

Originally posted by mnglocker
Let me finish this for you.


The bear eventually went down after it turned and lumbered down the stairs and had been shot in the jugular.

This guy was lucky as heck, he should have played the lottery.

Which is why I then went on to recommend something else. I'd rather have overkill than "barely enough." :thumbsup:

[mnglocker]

Originally posted by Wordsmith
Which is why I then went on to recommend something else. I'd rather have overkill than "bearly enough." :thumbsup:


Exactly.

[ogcujo]

I DID IT!!!

I took the advice I was given by the kind members of this forum. The very next day I got a Mossberg 500 12 GA. 18.5 barrel with a pistol grip, and Federal Hi Shock rifled slugs. I'll get a stock for it soon.

4/28/07 8:08 AM The Bear came looking in the my garbage again but this time I was hunting him, I've been waiting to see him but he usually comes while I was not home or asleep (as if he knew I bought a shotgun). I swallowed hard, and took a deep breath. I overcame my fears and walked calmly out side to face him (scared as ****) and I shot him. He went down, but was still alive so I shot him again. It hurt me to do this but the thought of my kids getting hurt justified it for me. I dug a deep hole and tried to drag him but this thing weighed more than &%@*. So I tied a rope his neck and to my car and that's how I moved him. I'm glad this is over with and I pray this don't happen again, but even if it does, I know I'll be prepared.

[MorkBork]

Sad to hear, but once they are addicted to trash and people there really isn't much hope for them.

Be careful with the body, you don't want any other creatures being drawn to the smell.

[Alchemy]

Originally posted by ipscshooter
I'm no hunter, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

No to the bear, maybe to the cat.

You may piss the bear off. If it's a handgun on him at minimum .44 mag with heavy bullets 300gr or so. I guess that would work on a cat to. I think I'd hustle down to the store and , if money is tight, buy a Remington 870 and a bunch of slugs.

I haven't read all of this post, which I usually do before I
post. If your that afraid for yourself and your family. Do
what the above poster said.

Spend a few hundred bucks or less and get a reliable shotgun
and load it appropriatley.

How much is your life or your family's worth.

[MOHAA Player]

Originally posted by texasKA
the 40 is more than enough. look at what a 9mm and 22 cal did at Va Tech. it is so sad. Ther's a big difference between kids and bears:upeyes:
Bear
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/grizzly.jpg
Kid
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/college-student-with-laptop.gif
See the problem with your comparison.
MOHAA

[Dean]

NO WAY will a forty cal stop a bear.
That's what the 12 Ga rifled slug or the .308 is for..

Babies around stalking cats? ::shudder
I hate to say it, but you probably have to move. I would.

[SDGlock23]

Originally posted by Dean
NO WAY will a forty cal stop a bear...


1st, it is (WAS) a Black bear, not a friggin' Grizzly. 2nd, Nobody ever said it was the best choice, but it will work. After all, they've been killed with less.

[Paul7]

The .40 would handle a cat. Recently in Northern Cal. a lion jumped two hikers. While mauling one, the wife beat the lion off with a stick. A .40 stuck in the cat's ear would have ended it sooner.

[boganz45]

Nice work on bagging the bear and keeping your kids safe. I would have kept the bear and head it's head mounted. Scare your kids for years...

:thumbsup:

[Vigilant]

Originally posted by SDGlock23
A guy took a black bear using a Glock 29 and Hornady factory ammo. There are .40 loads that meet or exceed those ballistics, so, it's safe to say that it could also take black bear. It's as simple as that bro.

Yes, and that 'guy', AK_Stick, made it quite clear that the bear was NOT charging, and that he had a buddy present with a heavy caliber rifle as a backup.

IIRC, he did say the bear weighed around 500 pounds, and that the round passed through and through, in an oblong path. I don't recall, however, if he said anything about any bones being shattered in that one bullet's path.

With that in mind, one would think that perhaps in a similar situation, a G22 with Double Tap's XTP round (which McNett has said equals the ballistics of a factory 10MM XTP round), the results should be similar.

[918v]

Originally posted by MOHAA Player
Ther's a big difference between kids and bears:upeyes:
Bear
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/grizzly.jpg
Kid
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/college-student-with-laptop.gif
See the problem with your comparison.
MOHAA

But when you factor

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/images/meth.bmp

The equation changes dramatically.

[Fear Night]

Originally posted by 918v
But when you factor

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/images/meth.bmp

The equation changes dramatically. So a kid on drugs becomes as hard to kill as a bear? They sure don't magically grow thicker hide or bone structure.

Damage to the brain/heart/nervous system is all the same regardless of being on drugs or not.

[MOHAA Player]

Originally posted by 918v
But when you factor

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/images/meth.bmp

The equation changes dramatically. Once again let's look at this.I will use a adult male this time on drugs compared to a bear so you can see the difference.

Adult male on drugs
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/snopp_dogg_196935a.jpg

Bear sober,not on drugs
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/grizzly.jpg

I still see a big difference;)
MOHAA

[BrianNH]

Originally posted by MOHAA Player
Once again let's look at this.I will use a adult male this time on drugs compared to a bear so you can see the difference.

Adult male on drugs
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/snopp_dogg_196935a.jpg

Bear sober,not on drugs
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/grizzly.jpg

I still see a big difference;)
MOHAA

You're killing me :rofl:

[jsh008]

A .40 will work OK against a bear if you have this, (http://www.fss-g.com) and this. (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=496418)

[918v]

Originally posted by MOHAA Player
Once again let's look at this.I will use a adult male this time on drugs compared to a bear so you can see the difference.

Adult male on drugs
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/snopp_dogg_196935a.jpg

Bear sober,not on drugs
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/grizzly.jpg

I still see a big difference;)
MOHAA

That is because you have never met a doped-up angry female. They feel no pain and are as strong as a

http://www.africa-vacations.com/images/Mountain%20Gorilla%20resized.jpg

[mnglocker]

I hold the ultimate bear solution in my hands. :enjoythegunporn:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/6204/4570muzzleblastjp4.jpg

[MOHAA Player]

Originally posted by 918v
That is because you have never met a doped-up angry female. They feel no pain and are as strong as a

http://www.africa-vacations.com/images/Mountain%20Gorilla%20resized.jpg Your kidding right?I'm only asking because I didn't see any smile face after.
MOHAA