best for bear

[Travispitt]

do you think .45 auto hollow pionts have enough penatration to stop a bear? or would fmj be better?

[Clem Eastwood]

christ, not this **** again.

[WIG19]

No. No.

Browse through this. (http://208.67.249.201/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=1425670&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)

:patriot:

[Kalmah]

Originally posted by Clem Eastwood
christ, not this **** again. Lighten up Francis, he's a noob. How about cutting him a little slack?

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by WIG19
No. No.

Browse through this. (http://208.67.249.201/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=1425670&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)

:patriot:
I browsed through but I still don't know if it would be best to use hollow points or fmj... I'm not hunting bear with my 45 just packing it when I'm archery hunting

[Kalmah]

Travispitt - Just use the search function and search Caliber Corner for bear, there should be a lot of threads to peruse on the subject.

WIG19 - Your link didn't work for me.

[Clem Eastwood]

Originally posted by Kalmah
Lighten up Francis, he's a noob. How about cutting him a little slack?

yeah, you are right.

[J. Parker]

Originally posted by Travispitt
I browsed through but I still don't know if it would be best to use hollow points or fmj... I'm not hunting bear with my 45 just packing it when I'm archery hunting

Visit www.doubletapammo.com. Those good folks have a nice 45acp "woods load". IMO, a 45acp flat point doin' 1010fps/521ft lbs is plenty for your average "black" bear IN A DEFENSIVE BACKUP SITUATION. Also IMO NO HP'S in the woods.

Okay, let's hear it.....12 gauge w/slugs, 44 magnum, 500 S&W, 458 Win, BLAH, BLAH, and more BLAH.

Forget the howizers.....a 45 is fine in the woods with the exception of Alaska and/or Grizzlies. :tongueout:

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by J. Parker
Visit www.doubletapammo.com. Those good folks have a nice 45acp "woods load". IMO, a 45acp flat point doin' 1010fps/521ft lbs is plenty for your average "black" bear IN A DEFENSIVE BACKUP SITUATION. Also IMO NO HP'S in the woods.

Okay, let's hear it.....12 gauge w/slugs, 44 magnum, 500 S&W, 458 Win, BLAH, BLAH, and more BLAH.

Forget the howizers.....a 45 is fine in the woods with the exception of Alaska and/or Grizzlies. :tongueout:

thanks for the info... any 44 magnum, 500 S&W, 458 Win will be way to heavy for me to carry when I'm archery hunting. I'm already carring at least two liters of water along with all my other gear.

[J. Parker]

Originally posted by Travispitt
thanks for the info... any 44 magnum, 500 S&W, 458 Win will be way to heavy for me to carry when I'm archery hunting. I'm already carring at least two liters of water along with all my other gear.

Travis,
My comment was "tongue-in-cheek" about the other guns.;) FWIW, I've camped and rode atv's in NE Oregon for years and never packed on my hip more than a 45/357magnum.

~John

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by J. Parker
Travis,
My comment was "tongue-in-cheek" about the other guns.;) FWIW, I've camped and rode atv's in NE Oregon for years and never packed on my hip more than a 45/357magnum.

~John
I understood your comment... but I figured someone would tell me to get a bigger caliber

[J. Parker]

Originally posted by Travispitt
I understood your comment... but I figured someone would tell me to get a bigger caliber

Oh, rest assured, they'll be folks telling BOTH of us to get howizer's for 200lb blackies.:upeyes:

[Clem Eastwood]

Originally posted by J. Parker

Okay, let's hear it.....12 gauge w/slugs, 44 magnum, 500 S&W, 458 Win, BLAH, BLAH, and more BLAH.
[/B]

i say military grade c4 ;)

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by Clem Eastwood
i say military grade c4 ;)

wow you sure have helped me out alot... why do you post if you have nothing to useful say?

[390ish]

Stick with ball or something with a truncated cone. If something with four legs can eat you and you have a handgun, you typically do not want an expanding bullet. Good luck.

[bac1023]

The 45 Auto is not a cartridge for bear, regardless of which ammo is used. Its a bad idea.

[J. Parker]

Originally posted by bac1023
The 45 Auto is not a cartridge for bear, regardless of which ammo is used. Its a bad idea.

You're right.....in Pa. In the Pacific Northwest they're just little "teddy bears".

In this instant the 45acp is not "for bears" it's in "defense of bears".

I'll tell you what......I will wander the deep woods ANYWHERE in the lower 48 (with the exception of griz areas) with my G21 and DT 230gr hot stuff. NO WORRIES! :thumbsup:

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by J. Parker
You're right.....in Pa. In the Pacific Northwest they're just little "teddy bears".

In this instant the 45acp is not "for bears" it's in "defense of bears".

I'll tell you what......I will wander the deep woods ANYWHERE in the lower 48 (with the exception of griz areas) with my G21 and DT 230gr hot stuff. NO WORRIES! :thumbsup:
well I have seen some very large bears around here but for the most part yes they are pretty small. I'm more afraid of cats than bears though.

[J. Parker]

Originally posted by Travispitt
well I have seen some very large bears around here but for the most part yes they are pretty small. I'm more afraid of cats than bears though.

I gotta tell ya! I bum around the woods alot and,I agree, them damn cats are sneaky! My heads on a constant 360 degree swivel.:thumbsup:

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by J. Parker
I gotta tell ya! I bum around the woods alot and,I agree, them damn cats are sneaky! My heads on a constant 360 degree swivel.:thumbsup:
I usuall hunt with someone... and my hunting buddy is always scared there is a cat following us or something. but I feel safe bacause he's always looking over his shoulder. so I don't have to as much

[J. Parker]

I normally have my 'ol junkyard dog on a leash with me.:)

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by J. Parker
I normally have my 'ol junkyard dog on a leash with me.:)
yeah I always feel much safer when my dog is with me but she has to stay at camp when I'm elk hunting

[Ak.Hiker]

Double Tap and Buffalo Bore both make some very good FMJ loads. The Buffalo Bore is a flat point and Double Tap makes both a ball and a flat point. I would carry what ever shoots best in your gun. I sometimes carry a Glock 36 in the woods when I want something really light and I load it with the Double Tap 230 TMJ. The Double Tap ACP load runs pretty close to the old 45 COLT black powder load. Mike at Double Tap has said that he has seen the 230 TMJ shoot thru a 250 lb. black bear and break the shoulder on the way out.

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by Ak.Hiker
Mike at Double Tap has said that he has seen the 230 TMJ shoot thru a 250 lb. black bear and break the shoulder on the way out.
nice... that's what I like to hear

[NickZac]

They said .44 Mag as the 'bear' minimum. The Ruger Alaskin is probably the smallest big bore.

[degoodman]

If you're hunting anything, .45 is the wrong choice. But you're looking for a last ditch weapon, so it's better than coarse language, and flinging the stuff that will be filling your shorts.

Honestly, for woods defense, I'd rather have at least a .357 Magnum loaded with heavy 170 or 180 grain Keith style semi-wadcutters with a gas check loaded over 1300-1400 FPS with H110, Lil'Gun or 296. The LSWC is pretty much the best choice for hunting with a handgun, and it has the depth of penetration to do the job. You DO NOT want expanding bullets or round nose bullets. Expanding bullets will not have the depth of penetration on a game animal with much higher tissue density, and FMJ's don't cut or do much damage on the way through. Sharp shouldered SWC's will though.

The good news for you is that unless you are stupid, you don't have to worry much about a bear. They usually don't like being where people are, unless they think it can net them a meal. Properly store you food, know how to move in the woods in bear country, and avoid areas where the bears are likely to be "fed" bears, and you'll be fine. Worry more about the cats than the bears.

If you do really come across a bear that's mad at you and you have to put it down, you'll want a rifle, and a big one, especially if your bear is brown not black. .300 mags or larger in bolt guns. A popular choice though for a woods gun is a lever action in something like .45-70, .444 marlin or .450 marlin. They're cheaper than bolt guns, and they're often more effective than high velocity centerfires.

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by degoodman
If you're hunting anything, .45 is the wrong choice. But you're looking for a last ditch weapon, so it's better than coarse language, and flinging the stuff that will be filling your shorts.

Honestly, for woods defense, I'd rather have at least a .357 Magnum loaded with heavy 170 or 180 grain Keith style semi-wadcutters with a gas check loaded over 1300-1400 FPS with H110, Lil'Gun or 296. The LSWC is pretty much the best choice for hunting with a handgun, and it has the depth of penetration to do the job. You DO NOT want expanding bullets or round nose bullets. Expanding bullets will not have the depth of penetration on a game animal with much higher tissue density, and FMJ's don't cut or do much damage on the way through. Sharp shouldered SWC's will though.

The good news for you is that unless you are stupid, you don't have to worry much about a bear. They usually don't like being where people are, unless they think it can net them a meal. Properly store you food, know how to move in the woods in bear country, and avoid areas where the bears are likely to be "fed" bears, and you'll be fine. Worry more about the cats than the bears.

If you do really come across a bear that's mad at you and you have to put it down, you'll want a rifle, and a big one, especially if your bear is brown not black. .300 mags or larger in bolt guns. A popular choice though for a woods gun is a lever action in something like .45-70, .444 marlin or .450 marlin. They're cheaper than bolt guns, and they're often more effective than high velocity centerfires.
I can't carry a rifle and archery hunt at the same time... I suppose the swc is best for cats as well

[degoodman]

Originally posted by Travispitt
I can't carry a rifle and archery hunt at the same time... I suppose the swc is best for cats as well

Against 4 legged critters, the Keith Style (wide flat nose) SWC has a long history of success in the hunting field. Because they're closer to cylindrical than they aren't, they don't deform much and keep right on chugging if they hit bones, the sharp corners on both the shoulder and the meplat cut tissue very effectively producing a good, bleeding would channel, and the wide flat nose ensures good wound channel width. A good SWC will go generate a through and through wound, even when high velocity rifle cartridges might not.

The other reason for using SWC's is that most expanding handgun bullets are designed to expand correctly in tissue of human density. Game animals have much thicker skins, stronger bones, and denser tissue. Expanding bullets will have a tendency to expand too quickly and underpenetrate in many game species, leaving a hurt angry and very undead animal that can do you harm for a long time since it's now tuned up on it's own fight or flight hormone cocktail.

The reason for using a revolver instead of of a semi-auto, is that the things that make a bullet good for hunting, wide flat nose, sharp corners, very little body taper, also make them feed terribly in a semi. The only way to have a reliable multi-shot weapon is to have a revlover. It also helps that you can find revolvers in MUCH heavier calibers than semi's, because there is a very narrow power range that a semi-auto will work in, and still have a slide of weight low enough to carry, and springs light enough to pull the slide.

[FlyBoy007]

+1^^^^^^^



:agree:



If all I had was my .45 it would it would be empty and all my mags would be empty.

Better then a sharp stick, but in bear country my 4" .44 with stout Keith rounds would be with me. With a hope that I would never need it as it would be dicey if a big bear was encountered.

[Tactician]

45ACP and bears? Bad idea. You need some velocity to go with bullet weight. 10mm is a better option if you want to stick with a glock. If bear where an issue and not just a chance, I would consider a large bore revolver. Quit complaining about weight and shop around for something suitable.

[10mm4ever]

.45Super will do fine with Blackbear! I'd have no reservations.
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197490
http://www.realguns.com/loads/45Super.htm

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by Tactician
45ACP and bears? Bad idea. You need some velocity to go with bullet weight. 10mm is a better option if you want to stick with a glock. If bear where an issue and not just a chance, I would consider a large bore revolver. Quit complaining about weight and shop around for something suitable.
weight is the most important thing to me. we pack in about eight miles to camp and I hike many miles every day on very rugged turrain durring archery season. and everything that is in my pack has a use, knives,calls, flagging, lots of water and snacks ect... and the gun would go before anything in my pack. my pack is already heavy enough.

I would say that most of the bear I would encounter weigh less than 300 lbs

[tahqua]

Originally posted by Travispitt
I understood your comment... but I figured someone would tell me to get a bigger caliber
Not around here...............ever
I think these folks are correct about using a FMJ of some sort. Penetration is the most important thing for this use.

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by Travispitt
do you think .45 auto hollow pionts have enough penatration to stop a bear? or would fmj be better?
Not just no Hell no. And no FMJ is not even enough. The 45 acp is not a bear gun. Get that out of your head now!
You need at least a 44 mag with heavy non expanding bullets.
Pat

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
Not just no Hell no. And no FMJ is not even enough. The 45 acp is not a bear gun. Get that out of your head now!
You need at least a 44 mag with heavy non expanding bullets.
Pat
you don't think at .45 would detur a 300lb black bear?

[10mm4ever]

Check the links above Travis. The.45Super with proper loads will have no problems dropping blackbear. Converting a Glock .45 to Super is simple and inexpensive.

[10mm4ever]

To setup for .45Super you'll need(for G21):
Lonewolf 6in. .45acp barrel-90 Bucks
THE s/s guiderod (from TopGlock) 15 bucks
ISMI #22lb. Recoil spring(from TG or LW)8-10 bucks.
This will send 260gr.Hardcast bullets @1,100fps. or so from a G21 and is more than enough to deal with any blackie.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f7/masterofg3/th_100_1235.jpg (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f7/masterofg3/100_1235.jpg)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f7/masterofg3/th_100_1228.jpg (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f7/masterofg3/100_1228.jpg)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f7/masterofg3/th_100_1223-1.jpg (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f7/masterofg3/100_1223-1.jpg)

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by 10mm4ever
Check the links above Travis. The.45Super with proper loads will have no problems dropping blackbear. Converting a Glock .45 to Super is simple and inexpensive.
okay so all I would need upgraded guide rods and recoil springs... does glock make these or will I have to go aftermarket? will standard loads work in my pistol as well as they do now?

[10mm4ever]

Just use your factory guiderod/spring setup for standard loads. I doubt anyone will tell you that the .45Super isnt enough for blackbear.;)

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by 10mm4ever
Just use your factory guiderod/spring setup for standard loads. I doubt anyone will tell you that the .45Super isnt enough for blackbear.;)
what barrel do you recommend for my 30? wouldn't I want a little more length? would the 21 barrel work for it?

[FlyBoy007]

Originally posted by Travispitt
you don't think at .45 would detur a 300lb black bear?


The problem is bears are fast and powerful, let one get close and they will let the wind out of your sails real fast.

You will probably kill one with a .45 but how fast?

I really don't want a bleed out bear next to my ripped up corpse.

Animals don't react the same way as humans to being shot, they may be dead but they don't know it yet.

If bears are a concern then take more gun, IMHO.

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by FlyBoy007
The problem is bears are fast and powerful, let one get close and they will let the wind out of your sails real fast.

You will probably kill one with a .45 but how fast?

I really don't want a bleed out bear next to my ripped up corpse.

Animals don't react the same way as humans to being shot, they may be dead but they don't know it yet.

If bears are a concern then take more gun, IMHO.
it is amazing how amimals have such a will to live. i've seen an elk go pretty far even after I put an arrow through both of his lungs

[10mm4ever]

Originally posted by Travispitt
what barrel do you recommend for my 30? wouldn't I want a little more length? would the 21 barrel work for it? Obviously, the longer the barrel, the higher the velocity. Check with JR @ Lonewolf. The LW barrels will give you excellent casehead support and they're designed for lead/hardcast bullets. I'm not sure if a G21 barrel will work in your G30, ask JR. I think the lugs are different.

[FlyBoy007]

Originally posted by Travispitt
it is amazing how amimals have such a will to live. i've seen an elk go pretty far even after I put an arrow through both of his lungs


Roger that..!


Bears can make short work of us two legged water bags. If one gets close we are in deep do do.

[tahqua]

Originally posted by Travispitt
do you think .45 auto hollow pionts have enough penatration to stop a bear? or would fmj be better?

Travispitt, I agree with others here who say you need more gun. If this is your only gun, though, carry it and get some DT or BB like was suggested.

[TheGlock23Guy]

Originally posted by Travispitt
thanks for the info... any 44 magnum, 500 S&W, 458 Win will be way to heavy for me to carry when I'm archery hunting. I'm already carring at least two liters of water along with all my other gear. So you think a 44 magnum is too heavy but a 45 is not when going into bear territory? You need a nice huge REALITY CHECK. You'll be wishing you had a 44 or bigger when that bear mauls your ass, If you did have a encounter with a nice bear you would be VERY LUCKY to get off 1-2 ACCURATE shots! Might want to make those shots powerful if you can!

[TheGlock23Guy]

Originally posted by Travispitt
you don't think at .45 would detur a 300lb black bear? I was hunting in the Upper Peninsula hunting whitetails out of a 15 FT tree stand, I had my Remington Sendero in 300 Mag and a black bear came to the bottom of my tree and stood up trying to scent my feet or something, I wasn't scared but i was very nervous. I probably would of been fine if the bear tried to climb the tree and all, But i was somewhat nervous with a 300 Win Mag, So i would probably be ****ting my pants with a 45!

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by TheGlock23Guy
So you think a 44 magnum is too heavy but a 45 is not when going into bear territory? You need a nice huge REALITY CHECK. You'll be wishing you had a 44 or bigger when that bear mauls your ass, If you did have a encounter with a nice bear you would be VERY LUCKY to get off 1-2 ACCURATE shots! Might want to make those shots powerful if you can!
I'm not really worried enough about bears to go out and but a gun just for that... and yes a 44 mag would be too heavy to carry. I'm not even gonna pack an extra magazine because of weight. I'm sure if I saw the bear charging I would be able to get off at least two accurate shots.

[Snowman92D]

Sounds like you got it all doped out and you're confident of your handgun skills under stress. Enjoy your hunting trip...hope no one will read about you in next year's "Darwin Awards".

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by Snowman92D
Sounds like you got it all doped out and you're confident of your handgun skills under stress. Enjoy your hunting trip...hope no one will read about you in next year's "Darwin Awards".
I am very confident with myself under stressfull situations. last year while turkey hunting I stumbled apon a sow with three cubs. she wasn't too happy and she charged to about twenty five yards and stood up. then she took a few aggresive steps at stood up again. an no I wasn't shaking out of control or anything like that I wasn't even scared at all but I had that adrinalin pumping through my veins. all I could do was slowly back away.

[Snowman92D]

So...despite having first hand experience with undeniably dangerous animals in very dicey circumstances, you insist that a .45 ACP with one mag-load of some sort of solid will suffice to protect you when your heretofore good luck turns sour?

I've got several friends who are long-time SWAT policemen in a large department, and they convinced their hunting guide to allow them to use their .45 ACP M1911A1's to take black bears that they'd treed. To keep the story short, the .45 ACP is emphatically not a good tool for bringing a cringing black bear down out of a tree, even in the hands of those highly-skilled officers. As others have said, it's better than a sharp stick, but it's not something that a hunter should confidently choose as "adequate" for the job.

Have you ever handled a S&W "Mountain Gun" in .44 magnum, or their scandium M329PD? They're certainly lighter to pack than the full-sized .44 magnums in the S&W line and leaps ahead in effectiveness over the .45 ACP. If your aim is to spend a lifetime in the deepest part of the forests, then purchasing an adequate utility defensive handgun shouldn't be out of the question for you. As has been noted, the object isn't to "technically" kill a bear...it's to stop it or turn it away from attacking you. There's a reason that a lot of states don't allow the .45 ACP for handgun hunting.

Have you thought about a field-proven, high-octane bear spray like "UDAP" or "Counter-Assault"?

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by Snowman92D
So...despite having first hand experience with undeniably dangerous animals in very dicey circumstances, you insist that a .45 ACP with one mag-load of some sort of solid will suffice to protect you when your heretofore good luck turns sour?

I've got several friends who are long-time SWAT policemen in a large department, and they convinced their hunting guide to allow them to use their .45 ACP M1911A1's to take black bears that they'd treed. To keep the story short, the .45 ACP is emphatically not a good tool for bringing a cringing black bear down out of a tree, even in the hands of those highly-skilled officers. As others have said, it's better than a sharp stick, but it's not something that a hunter should confidently choose as "adequate" for the job.

Have you ever handled a S&W "Mountain Gun" in .44 magnum, or their scandium M329PD? They're certainly lighter to pack than the full-sized .44 magnums in the S&W line and leaps ahead in effectiveness over the .45 ACP. If your aim is to spend a lifetime in the deepest part of the forests, then purchasing an adequate utility defensive handgun shouldn't be out of the question for you. As has been noted, the object isn't to "technically" kill a bear...it's to stop it or turn it away from attacking you. There's a reason that a lot of states don't allow the .45 ACP for handgun hunting.

Have you thought about a field-proven, high-octane bear spray like "UDAP" or "Counter-Assault"?
I bought my pistol for every day packing, not for hunting. but since I have it I'm gonna bring it with me into the woods. I'm more worried about the 150lb tweaker breaking into my house than an 300lb blackbear.

and yeah I have thought about the bear mace but I what if the wind is in my face? kinda a 50/50 there

[akbound]

Buffalo Bore makes a fairly decent .45ACP+P load with a 230 FMJFN bullet, look here:

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#45acp

.....this should work in a pinch.

Another option (I think might have already been mentioned) might be a .45 Super or a .460 Rowland conversion. These would be relatively inexpensive ways to get into a little more energy for woods carry if bigger cats and bears were a real concern.

In truth you're probably much more likely to break a leg, be struck by lightning, drown, or bump into a venonous snake than be attacked by either a large cat or a bear.

Good luck!

Dave

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by akbound
Buffalo Bore makes a fairly decent .45ACP+P load with a 230 FMJFN bullet, look here:

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#45acp

.....this should work in a pinch.

Another option (I think might have already been mentioned) might be a .45 Super or a .460 Rowland conversion. These would be relatively inexpensive ways to get into a little more energy for woods carry if bigger cats and bears were a real concern.

In truth you're probably much more likely to break a leg, be struck by lightning, drown, or bump into a venonous snake than be attack by either a cat or a bear.

Good luck!

Dave
I was think about the 45 super conversion but I don't know anything about the .460 rowland

[akbound]

Originally posted by Travispitt
I was think about the 45 super conversion but I don't know anything about the .460 rowland

John Taffin did a pretty good article I read sometime back. Probably the quickest way to grab info is to punch it up on Google, meanwhile I'll see what I can find. Oh......I don't remember but what kind of platform are you using? (What model firearm in .45ACP are you carrying?)

Dave

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by akbound
John Taffin did a pretty good article I read sometime back. Probably the quickest way to grab info is to punch it up on Google, meanwhile I'll see what I can find. Oh......I don't remember but what kind of platform are you using? (What model firearm in .45ACP are you carrying?)

Dave glock 30

[akbound]

I know the .460 Rowland was not available for the Glock platform some time ago. I do not know if that's still the case though. In truth both the Super and the Rowland are much better cartridges for those that reload as opposed to using only strickly factory ammo. Though companies like Georgia Arms load for the .460 and Buffalo Bore load for the .45 Super but the selection is very limited.

Dave

[Glolt20-91]

A bag of apples will slow down any bear.

Bob :)

[Tactician]

So your carrying a pack full of snacks in an area where you have seen bear before and going bow hunting. After you make your kill with the bow, are you going to do any field dressing?

There has to be a light weight large caliber revolver that would be acceptable to you. You really should consider this. Perhaps instead of carrying so much water you could carry a light weight reverse osmosis filter.

[glock20c10mm]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what to say here.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: IMHO a 44mag is the way to go for anyone who's actually serious about BEAR protection! I don't care if it's a "little" black bear... It sounds like your mind was made up before even posting the question so I'm not sure why you even asked it.:headscratch: Anyways, Good Luck! :wavey: :thumbsup:


:help: :scared: :teddy: :50cal:

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by Tactician
So your carrying a pack full of snacks in an area where you have seen bear before and going bow hunting. After you make your kill with the bow, are you going to do any field dressing?

There has to be a light weight large caliber revolver that would be acceptable to you. You really should consider this. Perhaps instead of carrying so much water you could carry a light weight reverse osmosis filter.
I burn alot of calories in a day I would bring myself something to eat before I bring a gun. and water is even more important and there is not always an easy way to get water. I usually drink most of my water in a day. and yes I have to feild dress and quarter it out right there. so I have to have a few knives and a stone. all that weight add up and every year I try to make it lighter. I'm just bringing my .45 because I have it. and it's not too heavy. I'm much more likely to die from dehydration than be attacked by a bear.

[Travispitt]

Originally posted by glock20c10mm
I'm having a hard time figuring out what to say here.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: IMHO a 44mag is the way to go for anyone who's actually serious about BEAR protection! I don't care if it's a "little" black bear... It sounds like your mind was made up before even posting the question so I'm not sure why you even asked it.:headscratch: Anyways, Good Luck! :wavey: :thumbsup:


:help: :scared: :teddy: :50cal:
I didn't ask what gun to use I was asking what bullet I should us. my mind is made up on the gun

[Ak.Hiker]

Just load up your Glock with a good 230 FMJ. You really should take along at least one extra magazine as a back up. If you want to reduce the weight load up the back up with the Blazer 230 TMJ. A lot of people over the years have saved their lives by having a light weight handgun on their hip.

[TheGlock23Guy]

Originally posted by Travispitt
I am very confident with myself under stressfull situations. last year while turkey hunting I stumbled apon a sow with three cubs. she wasn't too happy and she charged to about twenty five yards and stood up. then she took a few aggresive steps at stood up again. an no I wasn't shaking out of control or anything like that I wasn't even scared at all but I had that adrinalin pumping through my veins. all I could do was slowly back away. So you was charged by a sow and wasn't scared or shaking at all, Either your 1 out of a billion people or BS with us. It would probably take a sow 2-3 seconds to cover 30-40 yards. Actually think you could get your 45 out of a holster and fire 2 accurate shots in that time frame?? All the while thinking to yourself holy F%$#$^%$ this bear is going to tear me apart?

[akbound]

Maybe some of us should give this guy some breathing room! It's not that unusual for people to not be actually frightened during very tense events, especially when they go down very rapidly. It is a very natural human characteristic. There is a sudden release of adrenalin, a focus of attention, and heightened awareness. Fear frequently is the result of having sufficient time to "contemplate bad things happening", and when in fact an event springs quickly there is no time for contemplation.....only action. If in fact fear is a result in these circumstances it is frequently "after the fact"! (Once again, the time to contemplate all the things that could have happened.)

Humans during violent physical attacks have reported this phenomenon, soldiers during war, pilots during sudden crash conditions, etc., etc., the list goes on.

He simply asked which ammunition would be the best to use in the extremely unlikely event a large cat or bear presented a serious hazard. He acknowledges that the gun he has isn't the best for the job but is in fact all he has for the job. (Sounds a lot like those of us that make our CCW selections based on many other reasons, i.e. concealment, comfort, etc. besides just which weapon is best for the actual fight.)

So let's just try to help him with his particular situation and maybe be a little less critical in the process! :) :hugs:

Dave

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by Travispitt
you don't think at .45 would detur a 300lb black bear?

45 ball does not have the needed penetration. Its not a good choice. Bears are considerably harder to penetrate vs humans. They are not a thin skinned animal. I know of one shooting where a black bear was shot from a person on the roof of their cabin. They shot strait down into the bears back with all 8 45 acp 230 grain ball rounds. The bear was not even phased. The bear was later killed by Fish and Wild life Troopers. The 45 slugs only penetrate a few inches.
Pat

[bac1023]

It amazes me every time I see one of these threads. I can not understand why people would want to take on a bear with a service caliber. Even black bears. Sure a 45 Auto could kill any type of bear, but you need to be able to stop an attack. A mortally wounded bear can do plenty of damage before dying later from its wounds minutes, hours, or even days later. You need a caliber capable of stopping an attack dead by breaking bones and penetrating deep.

[Reyn]

Out of the two,the FMJ would be better than the hollowpoint.

[Travispitt]

for me when my adrenalin kicks in I'm in a cool calm state. it's not till after everything happen when you realise oh **** I could have been %*&%ed up. that when I start shaking... I'm not going out looking to shoot a bear I'm gonna avoid it as much as possible. though I would like to kill a bear with my bow. but I'll bring my buddy who will have rifle to do that. just in case

[Ak.Hiker]

It is very possible to remain calm when large game is encountered while in the field. Some people handle stress better than others. We have a member that is not going to buy another gun and is going to carry his 45 ACP for field protection. The bottom line is FMJ should be the best choice. Of the ones on the market if they will feed in his gun load up with the flat points by Double Tap or Buffalo Bore. Hollow points may not give enough penetration on game to be useful. But some people do carry them when out in the field. Years ago Hunting Magazine had a question about what handgun to carry for protection from moose and black bears. They suggested the 45 ACP loaded with the 230 XTP +P. The owner of the sporting good store that I buy most of my ammo from likes to carry his 45 ACP for field protection in the winter loaded with the Federal 230 HST +P load. I have tested tons of handgun loads for penetration over the years. In wood 45 ball penetrates about the same as a 158 grain .357 soft point. Shooting thru a moose leg bone the 357 did much better. Switching to a 180 cast in the .357 it was not even close. I still do carry my little Glock 36 in the woods but more or less in the winter when on snowshoes when I need to keep the weight down.

[Clem Eastwood]

Originally posted by Travispitt
wow you sure have helped me out alot... why do you post if you have nothing to useful say?

you are right, i wont post any more in your threads ;)

[glock20c10mm]

Originally posted by Travispitt
I didn't ask what gun to use I was asking what bullet I should us. my mind is made up on the gun

I don't see that I mentioned anything about any gun.:headscratch:

Anyways, for your sake, hopefully you'll never come across a bear that wants to kill and or eat you. As far as bullet choice for your G30, whatever penetrates the furthest. Since no bullets in 45auto are made for the required penetration you're questioning (unless brain shots at charging bears are your specialty), then all I can say is; "Best of luck to ya."

For best results, I would suggest (as fast as possible), empty a couple of mags in him, get an arrow ready and hide if possible. At that point maybe he'll just decide it's too noisey and head off to "greener pastures" or eat you anyways. Of course you'll still have the arrows. Good Luck

On to a more serious note, why even ask the question in the first place? You see where it's gotten you, nowhere. OBVIOUSLY there is no bullet made in 45 auto for the application in question which was made by you in the first place. And if you didn't know it when you asked the question, you did well before I ever started typing!

No hard feelings.:shocked:



:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[Kicking bird]

I second the idea of bear spray. I also don't understand the idea of service calibers for bear protection. If you're concerned about bears, carry a 12 ga. slug gun.

[Ak.Hiker]

If all you own is a service caliber than by all means load it with a non expanding bullet and carry it in the field. It would be much better than being unarmed. Of course if you do a lot of field work it would be a good investment over the long haul to save up for a 4 inch 44 Magnum. A used Taurus or Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 would only run $300.00 or so. With a good holster and thick belt not to heavy on the hip either. If you want a real eye opener set a 320 grain hard cast .429 cast bullet next to a fully loaded 40 Smith or 9mm.

[MrGlock21]

Where's the beast?
I say corner the sucker and bring out the 240 Bravo :50cal: :2gun:

[Gabe300WSM]

Go and feel a bear first. That will answer the question. They probably have some stronger muscles and tougher tissues than most of us.;)

[akbound]

Hey guys,

I understand what is being said by those that are recommending long, heavy, penetrating bullets out of magnum cartridges. We lived in Alaska for five years and my handgun of choice was a 4" Model 629, and it was loaded with 328 grain hard cast lead with pretty much a maximum load. (There were no larger caliber, double-action revolvers then. It was Freedom Arms .454 in a SA if you wanted something larger.) As the wife was decidedly ineffective with the .44 Magnum and the hard cast loads we decided on the next best thing. She carried her 3" heavy barreled, Model 65 (which with she was very comfortable and effective with) loaded with 200 grain hard cast loads at maximum pressures, from the same company that loaded my loads. It wasn't the optimum choice but it did offer very good penetration, much better than most are use to seeing from a .357 Magnum.

Now having said the above I also concede that there was always a medium/heavy calibered rifle available in my ATV boot. (Usually a .338 Win Mag loaded with Federal's 250 Nosler Partitions.) And we never set up camp that there wasn't both a Brenekke Magnum slug loaded pump shotgun and a heavy rifle available. (My favorite camp rifle being a custom Mauser .458 Win Mag loaded with 510 grain Woodleigh weld-core soft points. My wife’s favorite camp rifle being a Savage 99-358 loaded with six of my hand loaded 250 Speer Hot Core bullets with a maximum safe load. Our daughter's was a Remington 760 Carbine, chambered in .30-06 and loaded with 220 Nosler Partitions. There were no partition bullets available in .358 caliber at that time.) Not to mention whatever "hunting" rifles were in camp. And in case you ask yourself why so much armament, our son was in a wheel chair and completely dependent upon us for his protection. So there would be no quick retreating to a safer position. And if a hunting arm was to become inoperable there would always be a quick and handy spare around.

But now that I made my case as to my own personal choices for protection against really large and/or dangerous animal encounters, (and let's not forget he's talking about the usually timid behaving, much lighter, cougar and/or black bear) let me also say this. Probably the most common handgun I encountered on others in Alaskan bush was Ruger's SA chambered for .44 Magnum. With also a number of other DA choices in the same caliber. But I also saw more than one person in the bush with a service grade caliber weapon on their hip. And why do suppose that was? Because that was all they had available! I know, I know, they should have bought something more suitable. Most of them understood that! However such things as feeding the babies, paying the utilities and rent, and keeping an automobile running so they could get back and forth to work frequently meant that such niceties as a new gun would have to wait. For many people in Alaska the rifle and/or shotgun were the working gun. Handguns were chosen for various and sundry reasons. And often times it wasn't as a primary protection piece against wildlife. But even a 9mm on the hip is superior to a sharpened stick in the eye if it is all that you got!

I remember a time when I didn't own nearly so many guns. I remember a time when feeding the family and paying the bills took precedence over new gun purchases. I remember the time when it seemed everyone around me had more "stuff" then I did. Does anyone else here remember those times?

Dave ;)

[Ak.Hiker]

akbound is right on. I only had one handgun for many year's S&W 1955 45 acp. So that is what I carried.

[Clem Eastwood]

i have a friend who is a retired body guard. he took a .45 through the shoulder and didnt know he was hit until after he finished taking the weapon away from the shooter and proceeding to subdue him. but yeah, the .45 will probably work on a bear. yogi bear.

[Ak.Hiker]

I did not know that my old Smith was such a wimpy gun.

[Clem Eastwood]

Originally posted by Ak.Hiker
I did not know that my old Smith was such a wimpy gun.

its not that its wimpy, it just goes to show that no small arms duty pistol caliber is an instant incapacitator.

[AK_Stick]

if its a smaller bear, you'll be fine, back home, we have the real bears, unlike what AZ calls a bear (large dog) and the 45 would be a bad choice.

That said, a very good friend of mine shot a blackbear in his house in AK last year, with his subcompact 40 and killed it dead as any bear i've connected with my 375 on.

[CaliMoon2005- L]

Originally posted by Clem Eastwood
i have a friend who is a retired body guard. he took a .45 through the shoulder and didnt know he was hit until after he finished taking the weapon away from the shooter and proceeding to subdue him. but yeah, the .45 will probably work on a bear. yogi bear.

Oh really?? A 45 hit, and he did not feel it? Let me try with my 45 API ammo, I'll bet he will feel it and "FEEL THE BURN"


Just kidding!!!:tongueout: :tongueout:

[stevehof]

Gun? I wouldn't need no stinking gun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_VlVckrUgY

[akbound]

Originally posted by stevehof
Gun? I wouldn't need no stinking gun!

http://www.guzer.com/videos/man_bear_fight.php

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I've never seen that before! :yourock:

[thirtysixer]

I live in blackie country. No giants here thank God, and I would not care to live in brown bear country. That said, I carry my 45 loaded with 230gr.buffalo bore flat nose +P rounds. If by some freak chance one of our local blackies decides an attempt to dine upon me, I am confident these rounds will bust a 2-3 hundred pound bear up and at the very least, absolutely ruin his appetite. Black bars are rarely agressive towards humans in any way, but if a boar decides to walk your way, know that he is interested in killing and eating you and you had better have something other than a sharp stick.

[CaliMoon2005- L]

Originally posted by thirtysixer
I live in blackie country. No giants here thank God, and I would not care to live in brown bear country. That said, I carry my 45 loaded with 230gr.buffalo bore flat nose +P rounds. If by some freak chance one of our local blackies decides an attempt to dine upon me, I am confident these rounds will bust a 2-3 hundred pound bear up and at the very least, absolutely ruin his appetite. Black bars are rarely agressive towards humans in any way, but if a boar decides to walk your way, know that he is interested in killing and eating you and you had better have something other than a sharp stick.

I don't think it would work at night time, cause the bear will act like a predator at night, and looking for food, and they are not scare of human.

[akbound]

I apologize ahead of time as I do not know if this will work.

.These pictures are of a man who works for the US Forest Service in Alaska and his trophy bear (killed in self defense).






He was out deer hunting last week when a large grizzly bear charged him from about 50 yards away. The guy emptied his 7mm Magnum semi-automatic rifle into the bear and it droppe d a few feet from him. The big bear was still alive so he reloaded and shot it several times in the head.
The bear was just over one thousand six hundred pounds. It stood 12' 6" high at the shoulder, 14' to the top of his head. It's the largest grizzly bear ever recorded in the world.
Of course, the Alaska Fish and Wildlife Commission did not let him keep it as a trophy, but the bear will be stuffed and mounted, and placed on display at the Anchorage airport to remind tourists of the risks involved when in the wild.
Based on the contents of the bears stomach, the Fish and Wildlife Commission established the bear had killed at least two humans in the past 72 hours including a missing hiker.
The US Forest Service, backtracking from where the bear had originated, found the hiker's 38-caliber pistol emptied. Not far from the pistol were the remains of the hiker. The other body has not been found.
Although the hiker fired six shots and managed to hit the grizzly with four shots (the Service ultimately found four 38 caliber slugs along with twelve 7mm slugs inside the bear's dead body), it only wounded the bear and probably angered it immensely.
The bear killed the hiker an estimated two days prior to the bear's own death by the gun of the Forest Service worker.
Think about this:
If you are an average size man; You would be level with the bear's navel when he stood upright. The bear would look you in the eye when it walked on all fours! To give additional perspective, consider that this particular bear, standing on its hind legs, could walk up to an average single story house and look over the roof, or walk up to a two story house and look in the bedroom windows.




This is after all NOT what we are talking about in this thread. We're talking Black Bears and Cougars, not Brown's and Griz!

Dave

P.S. THE INFORMATION ABOVE IS ERRONEOUS! (When it was posted I did not know it was not factual.) Drop down a few replies for a link to the true story and the pictures!

[AK_Stick]

AK bound, that article you posted if completely bunk, it was about the world record brown bear, but thats as much as is true, the bear wasn't shot with a 7mag, nor did it charge the shooter. It hadn't eaten anyone, it was just a story put together on the net.

ETA evidently I read wrong, it is not a world record bear.

[akbound]

Hi AK_Stick,

Do you have the correct information concerning the bear in the story/picture? (To satisfy my own curiosity.) I know as a matter of course Browns (nor Grizzly) usually eat humans, though there have been a very few isolated cases. Instead they usually maul them, obviously some worse than others.

I was really trying to get the picture posted (it's a huge animal) as a means of comparing the sizes of the animals in the discussion. Comparing Black bears (the species) with Browns is nearly like comparing ponies with full grown Clydesdale horses. There's a lot of difference in the stopping of a Black compared to a Brown or Grizzly. And while I would be terribly reluctant to try using a service grade calibered handgun on either a Brown or Grizzly, (in a pinch I'd try anything), I wouldn't be nearly as hesitant against a Black and certainly not against the relatively light skinned Puma.

Any info concerning the bear referred to, that you might have and be able to pass along I'd be thankful for!

Dave

[AK_Stick]

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/bearhunt.asp

[akbound]

Originally posted by AK_Stick
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/bearhunt.asp
Thanks AK_Stick, I appreciate that information. I also apologize for having posted erroneous information above. I'm glad the pictures are included at the site so it's easy for anyone to see the size difference between these animals and run-of-the-mill black bears. (And the pictured bear is NOT even the largest on record which also says something about their size!)

The fact that the real story doesn't have the brown eating human flesh certainly stands up well with their usual behavior. Maulings though not terribly common are far more numerous (on the order of hundreds to one) than are recorded instances of browns/grizzlies eating human flesh. Blacks on the other hand, even though less dangerous in the extreme, are in fact much more likely to mount a predatious attack while looking for a meal. Which is why the advice to "play dead" if attacked by brown or griz, but to fight back vehemently against attacking blacks.

The choice of .300's and .338's is much more common in Alaska (in my personal experience) than is a 7mm Magnum as well, (though not a few Alaskans will carry a lighter caliber at times when deer are the primary target).

Thanks again for setting me straight and providing the link!

Dave

[AK_Stick]

NP man, but I disagree, I know alot of guys who use 7mm mag on moose and bou, infact, my own father used to use it, now the rifle belongs to my non hunting brother, but there are likely more caribou killed by that gun, than I've seen.

[Ak.Hiker]

The 7mm Remington Magnum is a very good moose load. The 160 to 175 grain Nosler Partition will take any moose that ever walked.

[Delta-x]

:popcorn:

(search)

[akbound]

There's no doubt that the 7Mag is a great moose and caribou cartridge, and it gets used in that capacity plenty. A personal friend of mine and a long time Alaskan resident swears by his .308 Winchester and it's nearly all he carries when hunting in Alaska. I also know many native Alaskans particularly use considerably smaller cartridges frequently (the .223 being the most common) when 'bou hunting.

My wife usually preferred to hunt with her Ruger #1 chambered in .270 Winchester rather than her Savage 99/358, chambered of course in .358 Winchester. But that was only because I was along with a .338 Win Mag and 250 Nosler Partitions. My Command Sergeant Major (CSM) at my last duty assignment had a matching pair of Browning BAR, semiauto rifles. One was chambered in 7mm Remington Magnum and the other in .338 Winchester Magnum. He very much liked hunting with the 7RM preferring it considerably where long range shots were likely to be involved. But unless he was partnered with someone carrying heavier he'd usually opt for the .338 when in big bear country. (A 210 Nosler Partition kills a Caribou or Moose just as dead as any 7RM, and does an infinitely better job when it comes to stopping possibly dangerous animals.)

What I observed in my earlier post was, that it had been my personal experience, that many Alaskan hunters specifically carried heavier cartridges than was necessary for the game being hunted simply because of the presence of the great bears. I saw many more .300's, .338's, .375's, etc. in the Alaskan game fields then anywhere else in my life, (for sale in the stores too, for all that matters).

Dave

[10mm4ever]

Originally posted by Clem Eastwood
i have a friend who is a retired body guard. he took a .45 through the shoulder and didnt know he was hit until after he finished taking the weapon away from the shooter and proceeding to subdue him. but yeah, the .45 will probably work on a bear. yogi bear. True that there are some incredible exceptions to the rule when it comes to a humans tolerance to small arms fire. Famous gangster "Pretty boy" Floyd, took somewhere around 60 rounds of .45acp hardball, delivered from Thompson SMG's at close range no less, to stop fighting! You'd have to look up exactly how many rounds he absorbed, but if these types of cases werent well documented, no one in their right mind would ever believe them.

[dickfer]

Make sure you file off your sights.

[AK_Stick]

I know I carry more gun than I need, for those times when I realy want a bear to stop! My normal hunting rifle is a 300 WSM, but my bear rifle is a 375ICL

[akbound]

Originally posted by AK_Stick
I know I carry more gun than I need, for those times when I realy want a bear to stop! My normal hunting rifle is a 300 WSM, but my bear rifle is a 375ICL
I believe that happened probably more there than any place else I've ever hunted. I enjoyed plenty of rifles, even when in Alaska, but the two that saw the most use for hunting were my Syn/SS Ruger in .338 WinMag (if riding an ATV and boot carry was needed), and my SAKO Mannlicher chambered in .375H&H if I was walking in.

I had a few others that saw some limited use but not nearly like the two above! (Unless you specifically count "camp guns", an 18" pump shotgun with magnum Brennekes and a custom Mauser in .458 WinMag.

Dave

[vafish]

I shot a small (less than 200 lb) black bear with a .44 magnum.

It had been wounded the day before with a .30-06 and a .30-30. It lay down from dark until about 7:30 the next morning, leaving a nice pool of blood in it's bed when we bounced it out. We traced the bear through the south eastern VA mountains until about noon when we finally got close enough for me to shoot it with my 4" S+W model 29 .44 magnum with my 240 gr JHP handloads in it. The bear wasn't overly impressed with the first round through his shoulders, the second one through his chest made him sit down and think for a while, which was just long enough for me to aim one last shot into his head.

That bear had only one thought in his head, run from the humans; had the bear been healthy and attacking me I don't think the .44 mag rounds would have slowed him down fast enough to prevent him from killing me, unless I got a shot into his brain.

I usually carry my Glock 36 .45 ACP when I go hiking in the woods. I'm not that concerned about a bear attacking me. But if one does I don't have much faith in the .45 ACP changing his mind.

If you are really worried about bears you need a heavy caliber long gun.

If carrying your .45 ACP in bear country makes you feel better, then go for it. A lot of folks here don't think it will do the job. I don't think it will do the job real well. but the noise may be enough to scare the bear away.

[Glocktex]

If the .45 is the biggest caliber you have to carry, then by all means carry it. I would much rather have that then nothing at all. I have carried my .40 and .357 while hunting in the UP of Michigan. Never needed either one of them but nonetheless good to have. Was I going to go out and buy a 44mag or get some c4? No.

Best of luck on the backstraps :drool:

[Glocktex]

If the .45 is the biggest caliber you have to carry, then by all means carry it. I would much rather have that then nothing at all. I have carried my .40 and .357 while hunting in the UP of Michigan. Never needed either one of them but nonetheless good to have. Was I going to go out and buy a 44mag or get soem c4? No.

Best of luck on the backstraps :drool:

[glock20c10mm]

Originally posted by AK_Stick
if its a smaller bear, you'll be fine, back home, we have the real bears, unlike what AZ calls a bear (large dog) and the 45 would be a bad choice.

:rofl: In AZ 550+ pound black bears have been taken. I'm certainly not saying the average bear in AZ weighs that much but they are out there! With my luck, a 500 pounder is exactly what I'ld probably end up bumping into. I'll stick with my 44mag. And even the 44 doesn't guarantee s*#t! But I feel a lot better with it than any service cartridge. Especially with Corbon 305gr Penetrators or the top notch Buffalo Bore Loads!

[Tactician]

I'm thinking there is a good chance of being found dead next to a bear that has also died a little while later.

[glock20c10mm]

:laughabove: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :laughabove:



:holysheep:

[AK_Stick]

Originally posted by glock20c10mm
:rofl: In AZ 550+ pound black bears have been taken. I'm certainly not saying the average bear in AZ weighs that much but they are out there! With my luck, a 500 pounder is exactly what I'ld probably end up bumping into. I'll stick with my 44mag. And even the 44 doesn't guarantee s*#t! But I feel a lot better with it than any service cartridge. Especially with Corbon 305gr Penetrators or the top notch Buffalo Bore Loads!

I killed my 600 lb bear with a single 10mm from a 29....