Selling FTF in Florida? Need forms? Help needed please [Archive] - Glock Talk

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YoungShooter86
04-23-2007, 14:31
I am conducting a private sale of my G27 and would like to know what's up with being able to sell it to someone who wants it. Where can I access firearm trading forms or what do you all recommend I do? This is the first private sale I have conducted.

Thanks very much,

YS

Bassman1985
04-23-2007, 14:38
No forms needed, if an in-state FTF transaction. I'd recommend you do keep some kind of record, though. Make up a casual bill of sale, record the serial number, the description of the weapon, the date of the transaction, the names of both parties, and have both parties sign and date it. That way, if somewhere down the road the gun is used in a crime or someone in LE comes asking about it, you can point them in the right direction.

Not legally required, but it could help you out in the long run.

Raoul Duke
04-23-2007, 14:39
I live in Nevada and the only firearm trading forms I've ever used came from an ATM and had pictures of dead presidents.

Seriously though, I don't believe Florida has any requirements, other than complying with federal law, to make a private sale.

YoungShooter86
04-23-2007, 14:51
Thank you sir. i will complete a form for the trasaction. Is there any way to check the name of the person I am selling it to? Or is it not my fault if I sell to a felon who I have no idea about?


Thanks

YS

Big B
04-23-2007, 14:53
You need to see their ID to confirm they are a resdinet of FL. That's all.

chad10mm
04-23-2007, 14:55
Just to CYA, a bill of sale as stated above, and ask for a valid Florida ID. Don't record the ID info, but it's a good idea to have the buyer produce it.

YoungShooter86
04-23-2007, 15:02
Thank you very much for the responses.


YS

Bassman1985
04-23-2007, 15:07
Originally posted by chad10mm
Just to CYA, a bill of sale as stated above, and ask for a valid Florida ID. Don't record the ID info, but it's a good idea to have the buyer produce it.

+1 Forgot to mention ID.

In case you are worried about selling to a felon, that's what the paper trail is for. In case the cops or the ATF go to the FFL you bought the gun from and track down the serial # through the 4473, you have evidence to point them in the right direction. If you are really that worried about selling to a potential bad guy, use your best judgement and size up the potential buyer. If you are suspicious, go through an FFL and make him get a background check, or just refuse the sale. The extra cost and hassle involved in that may cost you the sale anyway, but that's the way it goes. Use your best judgement. :thumbsup:

YoungShooter86
04-23-2007, 15:25
I am not terribly suspicious since he bid on it on gunbroker and I have his full name.


Thanks again folks,

YS

WhatYouWant
04-23-2007, 15:51
Nothing can be 100% effective in catching people who want to lie to you. But, you can use the bill of sale to affirm that the buyer showed you id and legally eligible to purchase the firearm.

noway
04-23-2007, 19:47
{But, you can use the bill of sale to affirm that the buyer showed you id and legally eligible to purchase the firearm.}

Actually the ID shows you nothing other than their ID. Legally eligible?, once again only tells you their age, nothing with their background, intent, felon status,etc......., their address could also not be update, their information incorrect,etc.....

If you really are nervous then go with your gut feeling or a person that has a ccw.

WhatYouWant
04-23-2007, 20:11
Originally posted by noway
{But, you can use the bill of sale to affirm that the buyer showed you id and legally eligible to purchase the firearm.}

Actually the ID shows you nothing other than their ID. Legally eligible?, once again only tells you their age, nothing with their background, intent, felon status,etc......., their address could also not be update, their information incorrect,etc.....

If you really are nervous then go with your gut feeling or a person that has a ccw.

You can use it to affirm their ability to purchase a firearm by making it a clause on the BoS. By signing the bill of sale they affirm they are eligible to purchase a firearm. Again, if they want to do it illegally they will sign anyway.

Checking ID only works if it is a valid id. Florida's Drivers License System does recognition on the pictures. If it finds two that are similar it gets flagged and the DMV officers look further into it. Hence, a little harder to get a valid Florida ID.

chad10mm
04-24-2007, 04:14
The ID shows that the buyer is a Florida resident to the best of your knowledge, all the state requires for private sales.

A carry permit gives a little more validity that the buyer is legal to purchase if it concerns you, but is not required.

Dandapani
04-25-2007, 04:45
Originally posted by chad10mm
The ID shows that the buyer is a Florida resident to the best of your knowledge, all the state requires for private sales.

A carry permit gives a little more validity that the buyer is legal to purchase if it concerns you, but is not required.

Amen. Let's not make up rules to satisfy the anti-s. Look at DL, ask to see CHL, write nothing down. Take money. Give gun. Shake hands and be on your way. That is all I do.

Gmountain
04-25-2007, 05:30
Originally posted by dmobrien2001
Amen. Let's not make up rules to satisfy the anti-s. Look at DL, ask to see CHL, write nothing down. Take money. Give gun. Shake hands and be on your way. That is all I do.

I wouldn't even ask to see a CCW. Other than that, I agree, take the money and shake hands. Nothing written at all.

njl
04-26-2007, 11:58
Originally posted by Gmountain
I wouldn't even ask to see a CCW. Other than that, I agree, take the money and shake hands. Nothing written at all.

As a buyer, you'd be stupid to take part in such a transaction. A signed bill of sale gives you at least some standing (or someone to point the cops towards) if the gun you bought turns out to have been stolen...or if the seller is a flake and decides to report it as stolen after selling it to you.

Say you go to sell/trade it later to a FFL and they run the serial number and it comes up as stolen. "uh...I bought it from some dude 2 years ago, honest. I paid cash, and have no receipt."

As a seller, if the firearm is later used in a crime, and the cops trace it back to you, it'll be really handy to be able to pull out a signed and dated bill of sale showing that you sold the firearm (and to who) years ago.

You really want a bill of sale to protect the buyer and a bill of sale / affirmation of the buyer's eligibility to own/possess firearms to protect the seller. As mentioned, these concepts can be combined into a single document, a copy of which is kept by each party with both parties signing both copies...or at least each party signing the other party's copy.

Court in FL.
04-26-2007, 14:39
As a FFL dealer I have been contacted more than once by the ATF when they where doing a firearm trace.

I had a customer who sold a firearm that was later used in a crime and when the ATF went to my customer who had little or no information as to who he sold the firearm to, it made him look very suspicious to the ATF.

The ATF took a real interest in him and put him under the microscope
as they did an investigation on him. They took any and all 4473's he
ever filled out and went to him wanting to know where every gun was.

In the end the ATF had no proof my customer broke the law.
Later my customer said it was not a pleasant experience.

He now keeps good records when he sells or trades a firearm.

If you sell a few guns now and then it's just a matter of time till one makes it's way into the wrong hands.

Court in FL.

Dandapani
04-27-2007, 04:34
Originally posted by Court in FL.
In the end the ATF had no proof my customer broke the law.

njl
04-27-2007, 06:11
Originally posted by dmobrien2001


Do you really want to be the subject of an ATF investigation for any longer than it takes to show them a signed bill of sale? Perhaps if you're retired and have nothing better to do, you'd enjoy the company. Most probably wouldn't.

Gmountain
04-27-2007, 17:12
A signed bill of sale can be dummied up as easily as anything else. It means nothing. No laws were broken. If you live in fear of the ATF, then you might as well just hand in your guns and roll over.

Do you really think the ATF is going to go away if you show them some signed piece of paper? There is more to the story than we are hearing. I promise you this guy wasn't some lilywhite citizen.

Court has to worry about the ATF-he has an FFL and it his business.

Court in FL.
04-27-2007, 19:53
I promise you this guy wasn't some lilywhite citizen.

My customer is a stand up guy,I have known him for years.
The thing is he has sold so many of his guns over the years and they have gone through so many hands sence he sold them you never know where they will end up.
He has lots of NFA stuff so his background is clean.

The ATF was making a case where there was not one.
They (ATF) saw a large number of 4473's since I was the only FFL he deals with and they assumed something was going on.

Sell enough guns and sooner or later one will end up in the wrong hands . ATF is always looking for what they call a unlicensed dealer and if you fit the criteria you are assumed guilty.

When the ATF do a trace they start with the manufacturer or importer
and see who the firearm was sold to.
Most of the time the paper trail goes cold when the firearm is in private hands.
In this case I bought the firearm straight from the importer so they contacted me.

Court in FL.

Dandapani
04-28-2007, 16:57
Originally posted by Gmountain
A signed bill of sale can be dummied up as easily as anything else. It means nothing. No laws were broken. If you live in fear of the ATF, then you might as well just hand in your guns and roll over.

Do you really think the ATF is going to go away if you show them some signed piece of paper? There is more to the story than we are hearing. I promise you this guy wasn't some lilywhite citizen.

Court has to worry about the ATF-he has an FFL and it his business.

:bowdown: :thumbsup: :supergrin:

Gmountain
04-28-2007, 18:22
Originally posted by Court in FL.
I promise you this guy wasn't some lilywhite citizen.


He has lots of NFA stuff so his background is clean.


There you go. That's the reason ATF had him in their sights.