PM9 / MK9 questions

[moonshot]

I am in the market for a small, light 9mm. Method of carry - Smartcarry and/or undershirt holster (Kramer Confidant, A Better Holster, UCC). My clothing choices make these carry methods essential.

I need something that I can carry in a NPE, where I am legal, but violating company policy. Being spotted would cost me my job. Virginia Tech, and others, have made me decide that keeping my job, while important, was not the most important.

I have a Glock 26, which I am very happy with, but it is a little big. I have a P3at, flawless so far, but spotty durability and reliability. I am afraid of practicing with it for fear of something breaking.

I'm looking at the PM9, but it too has very spotty reliability issues.

Please help convince me that these issues are either fixed, or easily fixable. What features should I still be concerned with, and what serial number should I start with to avoid older model problems (i.e. peening barrels)? I have read the MK9 is more reliable, but heavier. Is the reliability increase worth the extra weight? Is my method of carry suitable for the heavier MK9?

Thanks.

moonshot

[OB1]

I have both a g26 and a pm9. I also find the g26 a little too bulky for covert carry. My pm9 is in size, weight, feel, and hide-ability what I hoped my g26 would have been. Sure it carries fewer rounds, only 6 as I load it, but that's 6 more than un-armed.
My pm9 is a very low number (VA series) and did have to go back to make it work reliably. But now it's reliable as any mechanical device can be expected to be. I'm very happy with it and carry IWB.
OB1
:thumbsup:

[NailShooter]

OB1
Senior Member

...... My pm9 is in size, weight, feel, and hide-ability what I hoped my g26 would have been. Sure it carries fewer rounds, only 6 as I load it, but that's 6 more than un-armed.

:thumbsup: Good way to look at it. For when no one must be able to tell you're carrying, thinness is everything. With thinness comes less capacity, that's just the way it works.

My MK9 has been good so far, but it gets carried a lot and shot a little, as the saying goes. It's not a range gun--I don't think any of the Kahrs made now are. Shoot it enough to ascertain its reliability and cycle thru your carry rounds periodically. If you want a range gun to put thousands of rounds down range on a regular basis, and if it "prints" a little once and awhile, carry a Glock. These are my thoughts on the Kahr and Glock differences--just remember what you paid for my opinion.;)

Nail

[Wilson 17&26]

Originally posted by moonshot
I have a P3at, flawless so far, but spotty durability and reliability. I am afraid of practicing with it for fear of something breaking. You best get rid of that P-3AT that you don’t trust. I’ll pay the $10 it cost to send it to my FFL and throw in a crisp new $100 bill towage your next purchase :supergrin:

Based on lack of faith in your current Kel-Tec, I suppose there’s no use mentioning the 12.7oz PF-9, which is currently the thinnest 9mm made.
http://www.wilson-genealogy.com/pics/MyPF-9.gif

[Alphonso]

I have a new PM9 wtih about 125 flawless rounds through it--FMJ and Hydra Shok. It carries well (almost as well as my P3AT) and seems to be very well made. I'm pleased with it so far.

It does shoot low, but tight, groups and I am working with Kahr to get this problem solved. Kahr has given me great service.

***

Hey Wilson,

Does anybody ever take you up on the $100 P3AT offers? I recall them from the Kel-Tec forum (that I'm not allowed to visit anymore).

[Wilson 17&26]

Originally posted by Alphonso
Hey Wilson,
Does anybody ever take you up on the $100 P3AT offers? Fewer lately, as Kel-Tec has become the one of the biggest manufactures of handguns in the USA. I have previously purchased three P-3ATs from folks on GlockTalk. I will go a bit above that $100 for second-generation hard chrome P-3AT :supergrin:

[geodos]

My MK9 has about 1500 rounds through it without a single failure of any kind. I carry it everyday in a Smartcarry. The extra weight does not really come into play using that method. And my co-workers are clueless. Even the ones I have made friends with who know of my gun hobby.

[TMann]

Hey Moonshot! I have the same trio of carry guns that you are considering: Glock 26, Kahr PM9 and Kel-Tec P3AT. The Kahr is definitely easier to carry than the Glock. The slim profile of the Kahr makes all the difference.

I am the second owner of my PM9 and it has had close to a 1000 rounds through it. It's a great shooter. :thumbsup:

TMann

[Alphonso]

Wilson wrote: Fewer lately, as Kel-Tec has become the one of the biggest manufactures of handguns in the USA. I have previously purchased three P-3ATs from folks on GlockTalk. I will go a bit above that $100 for second-generation hard chrome P-3AT

Good for you. I guess a collection is a good thing. I just have the one P3AT and have (I hope) worked the bugs out of it. Once I'm convinced it will fire when called on I don't expect I'll put 25 rounds a year through it. Mostly just to rotate ammo and have a little fun.

Best to ya.....

[ColoradoPacker]

I have a G27, PM9 and MK9

I carry the PM9 IWB and the MK9 on the ankle, and the G27 has remained a car gun. I owned a lousy P3AT for less than a week and traded it in for the PM9 4-5 yr ago.

The Kahrs have been reliable, although my PM9 did go back for a barrel recall 3 or so years ago. It worked fine with everything but gold dot 124+p until I got it back. Those work fine now but now doesn't like 10 year old Corbon 115gr +p+ but it is flawless with gold dot 124-147, golden saber 147, and ranger 127-147gr.

Get one.

[moonshot]

I'm trying to keep an open mind, but it's beginning to look like Kahr is the way to go. What are everyone's thoughts on the MK9 vs the PM9. Does the extra weight of the MK9 make a difference in controllability? Is it more reliable or more durable? Does the lighter PM9 carry better? If it matters, my 9mm ammo of choice lately has been standard pressure Federal 124gr HST.

Again, is there a serial # range I should avoid? Thanks.

moonshot

[Cookster]

Moonshot,

There's a few threads on this over at www.sigforum.com. Here's one of them:

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/830601935/m/809102548?r=809102548#809102548

Get an account over there then do a 'Search' for more info. There is a lot of good information being shared over there by lots of good peeps (on all brands).

Btw, I am also about to 'pull the trigger' so to speak on the purchase of either the MK9 or PM9, but not sure which way to go yet. It is really going to come down to a few things. Primarily, think about how often you are going to carry and how?

If often, and in a rig other than pocket or ankle holster, then lean towards the MK9.

If often, and in a pocket or ankle holster, then lean towards the PM9.

If not so often, then it's a toss-up.

If you will be shooting it a lot a the range, which folks typically do not do with a sub-compact, then perhaps the MK9 would be a better choice.

In what I have learned, the MK9's trigger, reliability and quality seem to be slightly better than that of the PM9. Although folks seem to be very happy with each. Kahr also has been very helpful to correct any issues with their products.

Then there's budget to consider. If you set a limit of $550-$600, then you are into a new PM9. If you can go higher, then the MK9. Used specimen's of each can be had for moderately less, but I have not yet found a used deal so good that would make it worthwhile.

Let me know how you make out.

Good luck!

Rob

[moonshot]

Something I forgot to mention on my above reply...

Wilson, my P3at is not currently for sale. If I replace it with a Kahr, or something else, I will want to establish my new acquisition's reliability - and that takes between 200 and 500 rounds. I would want to keep my P3at at least until that was accomplished. After that, we'll see.

As for the PF9 - there are several factors which lead me away from that choice.

1) It's too new. No established track record for reliability and durability.

2) While thin, it's not exactly small. I have not yet seen one in person, but from what I understand it's the same size as the P11, just thinner. It might work in a Smartcarry, but not in an undershirt holster.

3) Keltec's lack of forthright info and slow fix of the P3at issues (specifically the peening slides which, while apparently fixed, still get sent out from the factory), as well as the frequency of parts breakage on low round count guns, makes me have little faith in the overall quality of the newer and more powerful PF9.

It's too bad, really. I like the size of the P3at, and was looking forward to relying on it as a self-defense firearm. I was planning on buying the PF9 when they were first announced, and I was also planning on buying a sub-2000 Glock combo as a home-defense carbine. Keltec has great concepts, but I do not at this time believe they are putting together a reliable product.

If I am going to have a gun for protection, I had better be able to shoot it, a lot. Practice is vital. I do not accept the notion of carry a lot - shoot a little. Any gun can malfunction or break, but when there are as many low round count Keltecs apparently suffering the same types of problems, it shows me that there is something going on with the gun...

1) Design flaw.
2) Material selection flaw.
3) Production flaw.
4) Assembly flaw.

The common theme here is flaw. Something is not right, and until Keltec shows me that they have really fixed the problems, I would rather rely on something with a better track record.

Unfortunately, the Kahr too has a spotty record. That is why I have not yet bought one.

I have learned a lot from your posts on KTOG, and I hope to keep my KT. I hope to buy more. Perhaps more P3at's, but not until I see some improvement. Thanks for letting me ramble.

moonshot

[Cookster]

Moonshot,

Many folks on the various Forum's who have put 000's of rounds through their Kahr's, without any problems.

It's just that shooting several hundred rounds in one session with a compact gun is more fatigueing than doing so w/a full sized pistol.

I can shoot my 92FS 9mm all day long without any distress to my fingers, wrist, arm, etc. I cannot do that with my P32 or P11.

Like any gun that may called upon to protect your well being, the owner has to convince themselves that they can trust it, and that can only truly happen after it is bought, and many rounds cycled through it.

Regards,

Rob

[NailShooter]

moonshot
Member

......If I am going to have a gun for protection, I had better be able to shoot it, a lot. Practice is vital. I do not accept the notion of carry a lot - shoot a little. Any gun can malfunction or break, but when there are as many low round count Keltecs apparently suffering the same types of problems, it shows me that there is something going on with the gun...


Most of us would not argue with your assessment of K.T. being down the line a ways as far as longevity-reliability, but it doesn't cost $500 like a Glock either. So people carry them a lot, and shoot them a little. And, as Cookster has said, these little Kel Tecs are NOT fun to shoot.

So, if we use Glocks as the longevity standard, who does make a micro sized CCW gun that has as high a round count life span as a Glock? A smaller than a G26, thin, little, centerfire semi auto that you can run several boxes thru weekly--or also use as a "range" gun? A gun that you can do this with for the rest of your life and not wear it out and has nearly 100% reliability?

It's what we all are looking for--but Glock hasn't made a slim line 9mm yet. Regards,

Nail

[Wilson 17&26]

Originally posted by moonshot
I would want to keep my P3at at least until that was accomplished. After that, we'll see. Keep me in mind should you want to sell. While I have more P-3ATs than fingers on both hands, we are heading into summer and I have my shoes off ;)

[moonshot]

Nailshooter...

I'm not looking for a fun range gun, or something likely to last for tens of thousands of rounds. I do expect my firearm(s) to be sufficiently durable to not break after only a few hundred rounds. I expect to be able to shoot a minimum of one box of range ammo each practice session, which I like to keep at twice a month, or more. That's 1200 rounds per year minimum through my P3at. I'm sure there are some out there with this many rounds through them, but I bet not many. I would be surprised if more than 5% of all P3at's had more than 200 rounds through them. As an earlier poster on this theme said - he planned to shoot his 25 times per year. I'm sorry, but that is totally unacceptable.

As for it not being a fun gun to shoot, I disagree. Recoil is not bad, and I like shooting. I challenge myself each time I go to the range to improve, or learn something new.

Wilson...

I'll keep you in mind. Hopefully, when I am ready to sell, I won't want to.

I really don't know which way I will go. I would prefer my Glock. The PM9 is not a lot smaller or lighter, but it may be enough. I've had air-weight j-frames. Great guns, but not my favorite. The Keltec is still a great concept. I just need to see better examples, with more range time.

For now, I've got my P3at, and I will likely order a PM9. Thanks again for all the info and advise.

moonshot