Ideas for gun laws [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Ideas for gun laws


NoloContendere
04-28-2007, 12:16
Hey guys,

I'm going to be doing some work on our gun laws for the next session, and I want ya'lls input. This isn't a formal request or anything, but I'd like to hear what ya'll want changed. Here is some of what I'm thinking:

1. Remove places we can't legally carry with a permit:
a. Schools (primary, secondary, university)
b. Bars (if not drinking or intoxicated)
c. We should be able to carry up to and into the courthouse where the weapon will then be checked into the lockbox at the front.
d. Parks
e. Post Office's are not prohibited places
f.
2. Open carry with or without a permit shall be allowed as per the MS Constitution Article III, Section 12.
3. Permits should take no longer than 60 days to issue or deny. If it takes longer than 60 days, the clerk of the (court or DPS) shall mail a copy of the application certified mail that will act as a de facto permit for 90 days until the real permit arrives in the mail, or until the application is denied and the applicant notified.
4. MS will recognize ALL permits from any state, even if that state does not recognize MS permits.
5. Introduce lifetime permits (!!!!!)
6. Issue non-resident permits (if FL can do it, so can we, and it would be a good source of revenue as well)
7. Over 18, and not a prohibited person, and you can keep a gun in your car. Period. (as it is now, if you are a student in a university, you can't carry one in your car).\
8. Reduce the cost of permit to actual cost (whatever this is)
9.

I have a lot more in mind, but I'm in the midst of a lot of stuff! Post what you all want to see, and I'll incorporate it.

MidnightJMC
04-28-2007, 14:31
What you've got looks pretty good and covers what I would suggest. The schools, parks and such. I like the courthouse idea too. I wouldn't have a problem checking my weapon in a place where I felt certain ANYBODY attempting to enter with a weapon would be discovered. And don't forget the post office.

NoloContendere
04-28-2007, 14:43
The post office isn't listed in the MS stat 45-9-101 as off limits, and 18 USC 930 (c i think...) says that guns are banned except for "lawful purposes..."

probably wouldn't hurt to stick that in though.

nc

pyblood
04-28-2007, 17:35
Originally posted by NoloContendere

3. Permits should take no longer than 60 days to issue or deny. If it takes longer than 60 days, the clerk of the (court or DPS) shall mail a copy of the application certified mail that will act as a de facto permit for 90 days until the real permit arrives in the mail, or until the application is denied and the applicant notified.


I’m thinking 30 days. If you can get a C&R license form the feds in 2 weeks, the great state of MS should be able to give you a carry permit in a month.

You have covered almost every request that I would have. If I think of any, I’ll repost.

Oh what about reducing the cost of the permits?

Dauntless452003
04-28-2007, 22:15
Good idea regarding reducing the cost of permits. If out of state permits were allowed, the revenue there could defray any loss incurred as a result.

Too bad it is unrealistic to think the legislature could be persuaded to model the law here after Vermont's.

Nolo, let me know how I may be of assistance.

:)

NRA_guy
04-29-2007, 13:46
Good luck.

The gun rules on the Natchez Trace are Federal---not state. (Carry unloaded and locked away from any ammo, as I recall.) So I am thinking that there is not much the state can do to relax that.

I think that weapons on most Federal property are regulated by Federal regulations.

I don't know, but I bet the Post Office rule is a Federal regulation, too.

One thing you might consider is making it a felony to publish the identities of permit holders.

Other states have had trouble with liberal newspapers (is there any other kind) publishing lists of CCW permit holders.

(Personally, it does not matter much to me if folks know I carry, but I know many do care.)

CentralMsGunFan
04-29-2007, 19:15
Originally posted by pyblood
If you can get a C&R license form the feds in 2 weeks

What is C&R?

MidnightJMC
04-29-2007, 19:21
It lets you buy and sell weapons as a collector (I believe.)

NoloContendere
04-29-2007, 20:12
It stands for curio & relics

I have no knowledge of this branch of the law.

NRA_guy
04-29-2007, 21:12
Curio and Relics (C&R’s) are firearms of interest to collectors or firearms over 50 years old (such as Mausers, Mosin Nagants, etc.)

An individual may apply for a C&R collector’s license from the BATF. This license allows an individual to purchase and receive C&R eligible firearms shipped directly to their home though mail order, or pick them up, without completing the background checks through an FFL holder.

The license is good for three years and has a fee of $30.00. You will see advertising for certain guns that state “C&R Eligible”. These indicate firearms that can be sent directly to C&R collectors.

A C&R license does NOT permit an individual to “deal” in firearms.

The following Internet links provide you with the forms needed and explain the simple procedure:

Request C&R application form 5310.16 7CR here: http://www.atf.gov/dcof/index.htm


Download Alien Compliance form 5330.20 here: http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f533020.pdf


View Q&A about C&R licenses here: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/faq.htm


View C&R regulations here: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/intro.htm


The information is also available by calling the BATF at 404-417-2750 or 866-662-2750.

50 years old = made before 1957

I don't know if that means that they had to stop making the model before that date, or if it refers to individual guns made before that date. The former I think, because I have seen ads saying things like, "CZ model ### is now C&R eligible."

Here is a link at JG Sales showing some guns that are C&R:

LINK (http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/c/c-r-guns/cPath/290)

But I see no need for any change in Mississippi laws on this. It's a Federal thang . . .

CentralMsGunFan
04-29-2007, 23:54
are there other states that are as gun friendly as some of these suggestions?

NoloContendere
04-30-2007, 08:22
Yes. I pulled a few from other states.

VA has the permit in 90 days clause that the application will suffice as a de facto permit

Utah allows CCW in schools.

Vermont allows open carry with/without a permit, as does VA.

FL issues non-res permits, as does utah and Texas.



:thumbsup:

lumberjack
04-30-2007, 13:07
If the state sells permits at cost, how do they make revenue off it? Same with offering lifetime permits.

I think carry inside the courtroom should be left up to the judge.

Open carry legal @ 18 anywhere CC is allowed.

Perhaps CC permit at 18, if we can give our life to defend the country, why not be able to defend our life also? (granted guns aren't the only form of protection)

Legal to carry in church.

Expressly written law saying something that equates that MS doesn't recognize further (federal level) restrictions and "outlaws" registration of firearms. AL is working on registering all semi and full auto guns, I don't want that for my state.

WileyG27
05-03-2007, 06:01
#9. Permanent licence with a one time fee. Indiana is state that just started that within the last year so there's a model to go by.

Should be a 'Frank Melton'provision... all CCW applicants can get their licence as fast as Melton did.

CentralMsGunFan
05-03-2007, 07:32
Originally posted by WileyG27


Should be a 'Frank Melton'provision... all CCW applicants can get their licence as fast as Melton did.

Would that license allow us to carry a sledge hammer also?

Dersu
05-03-2007, 16:47
Originally posted by NoloContendere
Hey guys,


1. Remove places we can't legally carry with a permit:
a.
b.
c. We should be able to carry up to and into the courthouse where the weapon will then be checked into the lockbox at the front.



New to Mississippi forum on GT and glad to find it.

List of law changes looks good to me, but one of them you may already.

Let me tell you a true story of which I am proud.

About 10 years ago I was picked to be on a Hinds County grand jury. The first day I parked in the courthouse parking
lot which is a couple of blocks from the courthouse and well
known for car break-ins. Being that I had a CCP, I carried my Ruger 9mm nearly everywhere that I could. But on the first day, I left it in the truck unloaded and packed away from clip and ammo.
So off I went to the morning session of the grand jury, and on entering the courthouse saw LEOs checking in their duty weapons to the desk deputy.
At lunch break, I went to my truck loaded my 9 (one in the pipe too) and walked around town and found a sandwich to eat.
About 10 minutes before I had to be back in the jury room, I entered the courthouse with my 9 tucked in my slacks and covered with my light spring jacket.
I approached the desk deputy and told him "Grand Jury member", he waved me through. But I stopped and said, " I need to check my weapon".
He looked this old man over and said, "You law enforcement?"

I said "no,I am a citizen".
He asked if I had a permit, I gave it to him and he made a copy of it. I locked my 9 in the lockbox every day of the
grandjury.
My fellow jurors just could not get over it!

NoloContendere
05-03-2007, 17:55
Yeah... those are for LEO only. But they should be for everyone. If you even walk into the courthouse with a gun, it's not good :D

good job though!

BuLC86
05-10-2007, 08:42
nolo looks good nothing to add but GOOD LUCK

NoloContendere
05-11-2007, 21:01
Do we know if our records are public or private? I'm thinking they are private... but i don't have confirmation, and right now don't have the time to look.

nc

MidnightJMC
05-11-2007, 21:29
Originally posted by NoloContendere
Do we know if our records are public or private? I'm thinking they are private... but i don't have confirmation, and right now don't have the time to look.

nc

Not sure about now but I remember back in the early to mid 90's the names of people issued gun permits was printed in the paper. During that time I would have been reading the Natchez Democrat and Clarion Ledger.

NoloContendere
05-12-2007, 07:57
8)
The Department of Public Safety shall maintain an automated listing of license holders and such information shall be available on-line, upon request, at all times, to all law enforcement agencies through the Mississippi Crime Information Center. However, the records of the department relating to applications for licenses to carry concealed pistols or revolvers and records relating to license holders shall be exempt from the provisions of the Mississippi Public Records Act of 1983 for a period of forty-five (45) days from the date of the issuance of the license or the final denial of an application.

that makes no sense. does this mean we can get records? we need to find out.

this is from 45-9-101

Dersu
05-12-2007, 09:51
However, the records of the department relating to applications for licenses to carry concealed pistols or revolvers and records relating to license holders shall be exempt from the provisions of the Mississippi Public Records Act of 1983 for a period of forty-five (45) days from the date of the issuance of the license or the final denial of an application.



exempt from the provisions of the Mississippi Public Records Act of 1983
That means the records are not open to the public, including news media.

for a period of forty-five (45) days from the date of the issuance of the license or the final denial of an application.
That means even though your CCP has not been issued, the fact that you applied for one is not open to the public or news media.

There was a short time when the records where open to the public and news media, and I think the C/liar did publish
some one year. A uproar among CC holders caused the state
to close that loop hole.

NoloContendere
05-12-2007, 17:40
Question: When the 45 days expire, does it mean that the licenses names/addresses are available? That law seems to only apply to applications for permits, and not the actual permits themselves.

Figures the Clarion would do something like that.

NRA_guy
05-13-2007, 05:21
Originally posted by NoloContendere
Question: When the 45 days expire, does it mean that the licenses names/addresses are available? That law seems to only apply to applications for permits, and not the actual permits themselves.

Figures the Clarion would do something like that. I agree. The records relating to the application---not the permit itself nor the name of the person to whom it was issued---is what this relates to.

And, as you have noticed, such records are only exempt from release to curious requestors for a period of forty-five (45) days from the date of the issuance of the license or the final denial of an application.

I.e., by simply filing an FOI request, a newspaper (or anybody else as I understand) can get a list of CCW permit holders . . . AND ALL INFORMATION ASSOCIATED WITH CCW PERMIT APPLICATIONS MORE THAN 45 DAYS OLD.

What might that contain?

Well, it would be all of the info in your application plus the results of the query to the local law enforcement and the background check.

It might be complimentary, but it might not.

But the real damage would be in publicizing the identities of the applicants and the holders of CCW permits.

That's why the anti-Second Amendment folks do it.

Why don't we test the process?

Let's file a FOI request.

How much would it cost?

NoloContendere
05-13-2007, 08:02
I don't know... but I'm goign to file one on myself.

NoloContendere
05-13-2007, 08:03
Here's a FOI generator.....

http://www.rcfp.org/foi_letter/generate.php

NoloContendere
05-13-2007, 14:03
I have started emailing senators to get them involved and to join the new MSCDL group. PLEASE get people to join the group at http://groups.google.com/group/MSCDL

Be aware that Legislators WILL be viewing this.

thanks!

nc

NRA_guy
05-14-2007, 19:42
Originally posted by NoloContendere
Here's a FOI generator.....

http://www.rcfp.org/foi_letter/generate.php I am thinking about sending the following, which I put together:

May 14, 2007


Mississippi Department of Public Safety
Highway Patrol - Firearm Permits Unit
P.O. Box 958
Jackson, MS 39205


Dear Records Request Officer:

Pursuant to the state open records act, I request that a copy of all records related to gun permits and gun permit applications in my name be provided to me:

[name]
[address]
[city, state zip]

I understand that I may be required to pay fees reasonably calculated to reimburse the state for, and in no case to exceed, the actual cost of searching, reviewing and/or duplicating and, if applicable, mailing. I am willing to pay fees for this request up to a maximum of $50.00. If you estimate that the fees will exceed this limit, please inform me first.

In order to help you determine my status in assessing any fees, you should know that I am an individual seeking information for personal use and not for a commercial use.

If my request is denied in whole or part, I ask that you justify all deletions by reference to specific exemptions of the act.

Thank you for your assistance.

Sincerely,

NoloContendere
05-14-2007, 21:05
Good letter...

question: does it matter if you want to see if "I" have one?

If you're interested... PM me, and i'll give you my information to see if you can get it on me.

NRA_guy
05-15-2007, 05:31
Originally posted by NoloContendere
Good letter...

question: does it matter if you want to see if "I" have one?

If you're interested... PM me, and i'll give you my information to see if you can get it on me. Might be a good idea.

I'll PM you.

I just wonder how much they will charge for the search and copying.

I'm betting that it won't be free.

NRA_guy
05-24-2007, 20:10
I also tracked this down in the Mississippi Code (Title 25, Chapter 61 - PUBLIC ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS)


§ 25-61-5. Public access to records; form and retention of denials.

(1) Except as otherwise provided by Sections 25-61-9 and 25-61-11, all public records are hereby declared to be public property, and any person shall have the right to inspect, copy or mechanically reproduce or obtain a reproduction of any public record of a public body in accordance with reasonable written procedures adopted by the public body concerning the cost, time, place and method of access, and public notice of the procedures shall be given by the public body, or, in the event that a public body has not adopted such written procedures, the right to inspect, copy or mechanically reproduce or obtain a reproduction of a public record of the public body shall be provided within one (1) working day after a written request for a public record is made. No public body shall adopt procedures which will authorize the public body to produce or deny production of a public record later than fourteen (14) working days from the date of request for the production of such record.

(2) Denial by a public body of a request for access to or copies of public records under this chapter shall be in writing and shall contain a statement of the specific reasons for the denial. Each public body shall maintain a file of all denials of requests for public records. Public bodies shall be required to preserve such denials on file for not less than three (3) years from the date such denials are made. This file shall be made available for inspection and/or copying during regular office hours to any person upon written request.


The 2 exceptions listed (Sections 25-61-9 and 25-61-11) would probably not apply to CCW permit applications.

source:
LINK (http://michie.lexisnexis.com/mississippi/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=)

lumberjack
05-31-2007, 17:11
I went to the Starkville office to do the dance to get the permit, the women were such peaches to deal with. I get to go back tomorrow for the picture as the computer messed up and it was beyond their paygrade to re-restart the computer.

Lobo
06-06-2007, 15:18
Looks good.

Chris

NoloContendere
06-06-2007, 20:47
I know I've had a few senators check my google group out, and I called into the Kim Wade show and he let me announce it on the air.

Also, there is a guy running for Senate, replacing Charlie Ross (who's running for Lt.Gov) and this guy is a strong 2nd supporter. His name is Harvey Dallas. I'm in communication with him about these laws. HOpefully he will be elected and he will be a good person on the inside.

NC

mcooper
06-12-2007, 18:44
Hey Stephen,

I just sent off a letter to Sen Michel (State senator) last week, if he does like he used to I should hear form him this week or next...if he is checking his mail.


I'll join that group. Kim Wade also showed an interest in doing a show on getting rid of victim disarmament zones. I met him at a dinner for Sen. Ross.


I'll send you a message on facebook, but lmk what else I can do.

NRA_guy
06-19-2007, 05:49
Back to the original question: The state of Virginia just passed a law to keep New York mayor Bloomberg from doing straw purchases and harrassing gun dealers in the state of Virginia.

Not 100% sure Mississippi needs such a law, but I have seen national news articles about how Missisippi gun dealers are supplying Chicago criminals.

And I can foresee the city of Memphis and New Orleans trying the same thing.

Just a thought.

LINK (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/09/AR2007050902573.html)

Va. Tells NYC to Stop Gun Stings
Attorney General Warns of Charges

By Tim Craig
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 10, 2007; Page A01

RICHMOND, May 9 -- Attorney General Robert F. McDonnell is warning New York to stop, by the summer, sending private agents into Virginia to look for illegal gun sales, saying that the agents could face legal action.

Because of a Virginia law that goes into effect in July, New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg (R) and his agents could be charged with a felony if they continue to target Virginia gun dealers with undercover sting operations, McDonnell said.

Attorney General Robert F. McDonnell has sent a cease-and-desist letter to New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg. (By Robert A. Reeder -- The Washington Post)

"This was a courtesy letter to the mayor to advise him about a change in Virginia law of which he should be aware," McDonnell said Wednesday.

Bloomberg's spokesman, Jason Post, did not seem shaken: "We wish Attorney General McDonnell was as aggressive in enforcing the laws that prevent illegal guns from getting in the hands of criminals as he was in enforcing the laws that protect the gun lobby."

Convinced that illegal gun sales in Virginia contribute to violent crime in his city, Bloomberg has been arming private investigators with hidden cameras and sending them into Virginia gun stores to try to make illegal buys.

The process involves "straw purchases," in which one person legally fills out a form and buys a gun for someone else.

New York has filed suit against two dozen gun dealers over such practices, including six in Virginia.

In February, Town & Country Pawn Shop of Roanoke settled with New York and agreed to allow a special judge monitor their firearms sales. But several other dealers, including Bob Moate's Sports Shop in Richmond, are fighting the lawsuit in court.

According to the suit filed in U.S. District Court in Brooklyn, New York police recovered 22 guns between 1994 and 2002, including some used in homicides, that they said were sold by at Bob Moate's. In March 2006, New York sent a man and woman into the store to confirm its suspicion that the store was making illegal gun sales.

"Once the male investigator selected a gun and indicated a desire to purchase it, the female investigator, who had not been part of the discussion, approached the counter to make the purchase," the suit alleges. The woman filled out the required paperwork, but then the man came and paid cash for the gun, the suit says.

Richard Gardiner, the store's attorney, says his client has "no connection" to New York's gun violence. He also accuses the investigators of tricking his clients into making the sale.

"If anything, these dealers are the victims," Gardiner said.

Gun rights groups are also furious, and in the spring they convinced the Republican-controlled General Assembly to intervene. The House and Senate overwhelmingly approved a law that says Virginia or federal law enforcement officials have to be present before such stings can be conducted. Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) signed the law in March.

"This new law strikes the proper balance between ensuring proper law enforcement and protecting the rights of law-abiding firearms dealers and those of Virginia citizens under the Second Amendment," McDonnell, a possible Republican candidate for governor in 2009, wrote to Bloomberg.

Mike Stollenwerk, a member of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, praised McDonnell's letter, saying he put "Bloomberg on notice."

The league has also been holding a series of "Bloomberg Gun Giveaways" to support the dealers' legal expenses.

Next week, at Fairfax County's Mason Government Center, "a handgun, a long gun, lots of ammunition, and other prizes will be awarded" as part of a drawing, according to a statement from Stollenwerk.

Post says Bloomberg "will continue to develop innovative and aggressive ways to keep New Yorkers safe."

NoloContendere
06-19-2007, 12:10
We need more people to join that group. I am emailing senators and reps and want lots of people to get the word out. Bills are pre-filed during the Summer.

Email your senators and reps and send them the link. Let them know that we want our laws changed this session. More to follow later