Open carry of a rifle and car carry of a rifle... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Prometheus77
04-30-2007, 15:33
Some states (like MN) allow open carry of rifle / shotgun...

Question 1- Is open carry of a rifle legal in Indiana? does it matter if it's loaded or unloaded?

Before anyone asks I'm not planning on walking thru the local Meijer with an Ak slung over my back, I'm just curious on the law.

To my knowledge carrying a loaded long arm in the car is illegal.

Question 2- Is it illegal to have a loaded rifle/shotgun in the car?

I've got a handgun carry license and I understand that applies only to handguns (open or concealed). I'm just curious about longarm laws.

Thanks in advance!

KSFreeman
04-30-2007, 15:53
1. Yes, however, there are several hunting regulation that regulate it if you are shining deer or on an ATV.

2. No, as long as you not hunting or shining deer.

I'd look up the IAC regs, but I'm very tired so i'm going home. Someone will be along shortly with the cites.

Patrick Graham
04-30-2007, 19:18
There are still quite a few gun racks in the rear windows of pickup trucks in Kokomo.... Nobody ever seems to get in any trouble over it... but this is Kokomo and everyone has a gun here..

Prometheus77
04-30-2007, 22:10
Originally posted by Patrick Graham
There are still quite a few gun racks in the rear windows of pickup trucks in Kokomo.... Nobody ever seems to get in any trouble over it... but this is Kokomo and everyone has a gun here..

I know it's legal to have them unloaded in the car/truck, just don't drive in ILL and down lake shore with a pickup truck, let alone a gun in the window :shocked:

Thanks for the replies so far, I'll continue to try and find the regs, but it appears all I can turn up is hunting rules and hangun info...

I don't hunt so thats not an issue.

FThorn
05-01-2007, 04:43
The images that stick in my mind are those during the time of the Carmel Murders trial and subsequent Mmoja Ajabu trial.

Mmoja attending son Kofi's trial with wife Jane (kid you not) had a 'bodyguard' with them that open carried a shotgun up to the courthouse steps, but not inside.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-2354882.html

Those images blew my mind that the LEOs would let them do that. It gave off a very militant appearance.

rhino465
05-01-2007, 11:39
I almost always have a loaded rifle with me in the truck. :supergrin:

Prometheus77
05-01-2007, 12:13
Originally posted by FThorn
The images that stick in my mind are those during the time of the Carmel Murders trial and subsequent Mmoja Ajabu trial.

Mmoja attending son Kofi's trial with wife Jane (kid you not) had a 'bodyguard' with them that open carried a shotgun up to the courthouse steps, but not inside.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-2354882.html

Those images blew my mind that the LEOs would let them do that. It gave off a very militant appearance.

If it was legal what could (or should) they have done to stop it?

I've got no love for those racists, but Rights are Rights and even they have them.

Nice to know open longarm carry is legal.. I'd still like clarification about loaded open carry of a longarm.

Ahhh I can see it now, tens of thouhsands of Hoosiers bringing their AR's and AK's with them on their daily shopping runs... Kinda like all those pics you see of the ppl in Israel with their Uzi's and AR's. :supergrin:

R. Emmelman
05-01-2007, 12:36
Originally posted by Prometheus77
... snip ...

Nice to know open longarm carry is legal.. I'd still like clarification about loaded open carry of a longarm.

... snip ...
No clarification needed. With the exception of hunting the Indiana code does not restrict carrying of longarms, loaded or not. Do a search of the Indiana code and you will not find anything, period.

FThorn
05-01-2007, 13:18
Still, I would bet that you would not get very far walking with a shotgun without a good reason. Disturbing the peace or some sort of thing might be tossed at you. (Causing a disturbance?)

epsylum
05-01-2007, 15:33
When I am transporting my EBRs to and from the range, I usually have them in the case with a loaded mag inserted, but no round in the chamber. Two reasons, this is how I usually keep them at the house and you never know what might happen between the range and home.

I don't like keeping guns of any type in my car when I am not with them. I have had my car broken into before and if I had guns in there I would have just armed another criminal.

Prometheus77
05-01-2007, 15:59
Originally posted by R. Emmelman
No clarification needed. With the exception of hunting the Indiana code does not restrict carrying of longarms, loaded or not. Do a search of the Indiana code and you will not find anything, period.

Probably why I couldn't find anything about it then , lol.

Thank you for the replies.

Fthorn, you could no more get charged with 'disturbing the peace' open carrying a rifle than a pistol. I would think that since a pistol is holstered you'd be better served if your long arm is on a sling rather than 'port arms' :thumbsup:

R. Emmelman
05-02-2007, 04:44
Originally posted by FThorn
Still, I would bet that you would not get very far walking with a shotgun without a good reason. Disturbing the peace or some sort of thing might be tossed at you. (Causing a disturbance?)
Disturbing the peace? They better darn well start stopping these cars that you can hear from 15 miles away going THUMP! THUMP! THUMP!THUMP! That's disturbing the peace! ;)

KSFreeman
05-02-2007, 05:25
Disturbing the Peace? For simplying carrying a rifle?

WTH is that? Some sort of city infraction or something???

rhino465
05-02-2007, 09:29
Well, let's not forget the Terre Haute LEO method ...

1. Accost and detain law-abiding citizen who happens to be carrying openly.
2. Lie to them that it's illegal to carry openly in Terre Haute.
3. Threaten them with other bogus charges if necessary, as provocation is the key.
4. Wait for the person to get angry enough that you can actually charge them with disturbing the peace... I mean, DISORDERLY CONDUCT.



:supergrin:

Prometheus77
05-02-2007, 22:08
Originally posted by R. Emmelman
Disturbing the peace? They better darn well start stopping these cars that you can hear from 15 miles away going THUMP! THUMP! THUMP!THUMP! That's disturbing the peace! ;)
Your darn right...

A car pulled up behind me today with that crap and I dang near "busted out my gat and popped a cap in their azzes!"... I believe thats what they were playing, I can't be sure. My car should NOT move when they play their ghetto crap. I don't care for the middle age balding guys in their corvettes blasting beach boys, but atleast I can roll up the windows and it's barely or not at all audibal... rolling up the windows does jack against bass.

I've taken to nsulting their radios when I'm alone in my car now... Key words like "Loose" and "Rattle" and "get a real box" and my favorite "My moms $hi+ is tighter than that!" really set them off especially from a 'white boy' lol... one of these days one of those effers is going to raise up their lorcin so I waste their sorry butts, I just know it ;)

EAJuggalo
05-03-2007, 00:13
Causing a disturbance was the charge for the folks in WI that decided to march en masse through madison while open carrying. That would also be the charge against me if I were to walk around downtown Minneapolis with a shotgun.

on another note prometheus were you in Hammond or Gary at the time?

KSFreeman
05-03-2007, 05:55
What? Are we at the gun shop?

Minnesota? Wisconsin? Why is everyone talking about states that are not Indiana? It's like the Texans have taken over in here or something. "Well, I don't know about Camelturdistand, but in Texas . . . ." AAAAHHHH.

THERE IS NO "DISTURBING THE PEACE" STATUTE IN INDIANA! We have the offense of Disorderly Conduct which is a B Misdemeanor, 0 to 180 days, 0 to 1K fine. Disorderly conduct can be attained in several ways (fighting, rioting, unreasonable noise after being asked to stop, disrupting a lawful assembly). Cities and towns may have noise violation ordinances (the tickets for loud car stereos that were mentioned earlier) but merely carry fines.

Now, no more of talking about statutes that do not exist. No more talking about jurisdictions that have absolutely no relevance to Indiana law.

*rolls on floor* They're just like the Texans babbling on about Texas law when the question is addressed regarding East Frootloopistan.

Prometheus77
05-03-2007, 09:31
Originally posted by EAJuggalo
on another note prometheus were you in Hammond or Gary at the time?

Hammond, I don't find myself in Gary often ;)

R. Emmelman
05-03-2007, 09:40
Originally posted by KSFreeman
What? Are we at the gun shop?

.. snip ...

THERE IS NO "DISTURBING THE PEACE" STATUTE IN INDIANA! We have the offense of Disorderly Conduct which is a B Misdemeanor, 0 to 180 days, 0 to 1K fine. Disorderly conduct can be attained in several ways (fighting, rioting, unreasonable noise after being asked to stop, disrupting a lawful assembly). Cities and towns may have noise violation ordinances (the tickets for loud car stereos that were mentioned earlier) but merely carry fines.

Now, no more of talking about statutes that do not exist. No more talking about jurisdictions that have absolutely no relevance to Indiana law.

... snip ...
Kirk the great is correct, except from what I have heard some local sheriff/PD think there is. :thumbsup:

RF7126
05-03-2007, 11:20
KSFreeman,
Could you tell me if it would be possible for a city to pass an ordinance including open carry under the idea of disturbing the peace? Or perhaps claiming that people were distressed by the open carry, and therefore we are disturbing the peace?

I've had Terre Haute officers tell me this, and I know others who have been threatened with it. Somehow, law or not, they've got it in their heads that we don't need to carry. I'm looking at getting into law enforcement, so I'm afraid to push the issue lest my record be permanently marred.

KSFreeman
05-03-2007, 15:48
For the love of Jeff Cooper! What is about Terre Haute cops? Didn't we have some kid from da Haute tell us that THPD was running around telling people it was against the law to carry openly? We kept asking for the ordinance and got nothing but crickets, ah, the crickets.

What was that kid's name "Skoptomus" or something? Someone needs to get us this legendary ordinance or take a methporical legal clue bat to THPD and get them back on the path of righteousness and light.

*sits back down, after stomping around office*

RF, to answer your question, yes, if the ordinance was pre-95 (as the Speedway infraction of carrying concealed) then under Indiana's grandfathered preemption statute (which was passed so that gun laws in African-American cities would be upheld, but laws in majority White cities would be void) it would be valid (constitutionally still suspect).

RF ask THPD coppers them for the ordinance. I've written the city attorney, the mayor, the PD, nothing, not a single response. Heck, show up at the City Clerk's office (during business hours) and ask where you can get a copy of the city ordinances.

If a city passed such an ordinance today, it would face a challenge under Indiana's preemption law and a constitutional challenge (application and on its face).

We need a GT project to clue in THPD.

RF7126
05-03-2007, 15:51
I might be interning there in the very near future (still not sure where I'll be), so if I do I'll listen to the politics and see if I can't tell where that attitude is coming from.

Prometheus77
05-03-2007, 21:13
Originally posted by KSFreeman
RF, to answer your question, yes, if the ordinance was pre-95 (as the Speedway infraction of carrying concealed) then under Indiana's grandfathered preemption statute (which was passed so that gun laws in African-American cities would be upheld, but laws in majority White cities would be void) it would be valid (constitutionally still suspect).


I'm missing something here... are you saying there are places where it is illegal to open carry pistols in Indiana?

I thought all of those were struck down... is there any sort of definate list of these cities (if there are any)?

R. Emmelman
05-04-2007, 04:50
Originally posted by Prometheus77
I'm missing something here... are you saying there are places where it is illegal to open carry pistols in Indiana?

I thought all of those were struck down... is there any sort of definate list of these cities (if there are any)?
I don't know about illegal to open carry, but Speedway has an ordinance that says you have to open carry. This dates back to the 1960's. I bet if everyone who carries did so by the Speedway ordinance it would get changed very quickly.

arbitrary
05-04-2007, 18:13
I found a useful summary of Indiana gun laws here:

http://www.lcav.org/states/indiana.asp

Ironically, it is a site dedicated to end gun violence. Don't even look at their description of assault rifles unless you want to get riled up. But the law part is well done.


Article I, 32 of the Indiana Constitution provides that [t]he people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.

Skpotamus
05-04-2007, 23:21
It was "skpotamus" and I'm 26 now :tongueout:

I used to live in the mighty haute and still work there. I've had quite a few police officers tell me it was illegal to carry openly, (their definition of "open carry" included the gun printing under a cover garment). After posting on a few threads here, I asked some LEO's in Da Haute to cite the ordinance for me. None could. I asked my MA instructor (12 year veteran of the Vigo County sherrif's dept, and their trainer for most things), he looked for quite a while to find the ordinance that he was told to enforce by the sherrif, and couldn't.

During a defensive tactics course that I was helping to teach for the local PD's (Vigo county, THPD, West Terre Haute, ISU) I asked the sherrif himself about it, he said he'd print me off a copy of it and bring it to me. He later said he couldn't find it. He talked to the county prosecutor, who never got back to me on it....

When I really pushed to find out, I got directed to this IC :

IC 36-8-2-4
Regulation of dangerous conduct or property
Sec. 4. A unit may regulate conduct, or use or possession of property, that might endanger the public health, safety, or welfare.

as the backbone behind the "no open carry" BS. They say that if people start to complain about it, then the public welfare and safety could become endangered or some such nonsense. Personally, I think it sounds pretty flimsy, and have pushed the issue with a few officers before when they got a little agitated with me about it :supergrin: and so far, have been left alone.

Just keep in mind, that a lot of LEO's don't seem to really know a lot about the laws they are told to enforce. If the chief has a hair up his arse about open carry, he'll tell his officers to harass and push people who open carry, if you get hot when they get in your face, they'll find some reason to arrest you. According to some of the officers, (friends of mine btw), they can write a letter to the state police dept saying they had a run-in with you and that in their professional opinion you are a threat to the public with your carry permit, and get your permit revoked. Or, at least they have done so in the past, I'd love to see a lawsuit from that though...

As a funny side note, Sullivan County (directly south of Vigo county/terre haute), says that concealed carry is illegal and you HAVE to open carry your handguns. It's not written ANYWHERE that anybody can find, similar to the Terre Haute BS, but some officers will try to enforce it.

rhino465
05-05-2007, 01:19
We should take a trip to the county line between Vigo and Sullivan Counties.

Everyone will have a concealed gun on one side, and a gun clearly visibile on the other side of their body.

Then we all straddle the line, half of us complying with the non-existent laws, and the other half doing the opposite.

Then at the signal we all pivot!

Repeat!

:animlol:

KSFreeman
05-05-2007, 06:49
Skpotamus, thank you.

The Indiana Code you cite is called "enabling legislation" which would allow a city or town to do something. No one, not a single person, has provided me a copy of this mythical Terre Haute ordinance which "prohibits open carry."

If the Chief of THPD is conspiring to deprive us of our civil rights under color of law, then we need to be making a huge stink over this and hauling him into federal court. We need to be fighting these morons not allowing this to do this because this is how they have always done it.

Sullivan County too? Great. Man, there is so much work to do.:shocked:

Skpotamus
05-05-2007, 09:35
Rhino, I like that idea. Get about 50-60 people, some music, some hotdogs, make a day out of it :supergrin:

KSfreeman, how hard would it be for a PD to make an arrest under that IC stick? I mean, simply carrying a gun openly isn't endangering the public anymore than a LEO carrying a gun openly. Wouldn't you have to be doing something unsafe or aggressive natured to really have this come into affect?

RF7126
05-06-2007, 13:07
skpotamus, one of the officers I talked to said that they use the idea of a "public disturbance". He claimed that if they could get so many (I don't remember the number) of people to admit they were "upset" by the sight of a gun, he could cite/arrest for public disturbance. I would assume this is different than what we were talking about above. I'll admit that I have absolutely no idea of how legal this is.

Skpotamus
05-06-2007, 14:33
RF, that's what I was told as well. They use the cited law above as the basis for arresting someone for disturbing the public welfare disturbing the public peace or some such nonsense. I was told the magic # was 3. 3+ people complain and they can tell the person to conceal the firearm, remove the firearm, or leave the area, or arrest the person if they don't comply.

I've posted before how people I know in LE have enforced the ordinance, even getting the person's carry permit revoked using the cited law above. "In my professional opinion Mr/Ms__________ is a danger to the general public while in posession of a firearm and therefore I recommend his Personal Protection License be revoked." I think was how it was phrased. Now, the situation where that was used involved the person carrying to get pretty hot and start to yell at the LEO's.

The situations I've been in weren't as bad, in fact, most were civil, however one or two Rambo wannabe's on the PD can ruin your day.

rhino465
05-06-2007, 14:45
. . . and as we've been educated by our own KSFreeman, there is no "disturbing the peace" statute in Indiana.

There is "disorderly conduct," but lawfully carrying a gun (concealed or not) is not disorderly conduct.

Of course, the weasels in question can arrest you for whatever reason they want. Whether or not you've broken a law or could be prosecuted successfully is not always an issue. :supergrin:

R. Emmelman
05-07-2007, 04:56
Originally posted by rhino465
. . . and as we've been educated by our own KSFreeman, there is no "disturbing the peace" statute in Indiana.

There is "disorderly conduct," but lawfully carrying a gun (concealed or not) is not disorderly conduct.

Of course, the weasels in question can arrest you for whatever reason they want. Whether or not you've broken a law or could be prosecuted successfully is not always an issue. :supergrin:
rhino

It may not be a question of can you be successfully prosecuted or not. The issue most likely become can you afford to defend yourself? I would guess that most people would plead guilty just to pay the fine and get on with it. Sort of like legal extortion.