Preventing the next Virginia Tech

[IronHorseman]

We are are going to be working to establish legislation that would specifically allow carrying firearms at Indiana colleges. If anyone interested drop me an email or attend our next 2nd Amendment Patriot meeting.


E-mail message

From: jmtomes@(jmtomes) Date: Mon, Apr 30, 2007, 9:20pm To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@webtv.net Subject: Saturday report
*** What a nice crowd at our 2nd Amendment Patriot meeting and it was also nice to see new faces.* We appreciate those who came for the first time and now*have joined our e-mail list.
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*** Thanks to all of you who were present at the meeting and filled out the postcards to send to the DNR, ( Department of Natural Resources) to make permanent Governor Daniels' executive order that opens all state parks and other DNR property to concealed carry holders to take their handguns on that property.
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*** If you want to help us you can send a postcard to:
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Hearing Officer
Natural Resources Commission
402 W. Washington St. W272
Indianapolis, IN 46204
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*** Just write a little note why it's important that people carry their handguns with them wherever they go, including state parks.* Be sure to sign your name and address on the back of the postcard.* Thanks.
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*** We were happy to welcome our guest, Paul Abramson, who will arrange to attend again, perhaps at our next meeting, and do a presentation that will be of interest to everyone.
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*** It was nice to have some of our friends from USI to discuss the importance of having conceal carry on campus.* We will be working with them in approaching our friendlies in the legislature before the next session to help us make this happen.* You can see what the Tennessee legislature*just recently did to avoid the tragedy that struck Virginia.
http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/state/article/0,1406,KNS_348_5492294,00.html
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*** I want to thank*Patriots*Mike and Ruth Hiland, who drove all the way from Indianapolis to be with us.* Ruth is running for City Council At Large.***You can contact them to see how you can help*mrhiland@msn.com*
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*** We had 15 shooters at our mini Appleseed Saturday morning.* We had some that came all the way from Tennessee and others from around the Terre Haute area.* I wish we could get some who only live about 10 minutes away to come to*these events.
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*** Our next one will be May 26th.* The national shoot will be on June 30th and July 1st.* These are at the West Side Sportsman's Club, (WSSC).
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*** The folks at WSSC are really excited about having these shoots at their range and they are REALLY* excited about hosting a national shoot.
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*** We are raffling off an M1 Garand rifle and will be giving it away on July 1st at the shoot.* The club will be making meals available for the two days of shooting and on Saturday June 30th they are going to be barbequing and is going to offer BBQ dinners and carry out orders at a special pricing just for the Appleseed shooters.
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*** Indiana still holds the record of shooter attendance over all the other states.* It would be nice to beat our own record.* I'm asking for all of you to help us do that.
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*** This program is like no other.* If you have not been to one, then this is the time to come.* For all of you that made last year such a success, how about joining us again?
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*** You can pre-register on line on the RWVA web site www.rwva.org
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*** We also laid out some plans for our Bill Of Rights Day.* It's December 15th.* Mark you calendars now.* Don't plan on Christmas shopping on that day.* This is an important celebration.* Every election we have and some of the people we wind up with makes this celebration evermore important.
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Jim and Margie
2nd Amendment Patriots
STAY UNITED
www.2ndamendmentpatriots.org

[rhino465]

Originally posted by IronHorseman
We are are going to be working to establish legislation that would specifically allow carrying firearms at Indiana colleges. If anyone interested drop me an email or attend our next 2nd Amendment Patriot meeting.

It's a great idea. While most agree that "school" in the Indiana Code refers to K-12 operated by a school corporation (i.e. a public/gov't school), it would be good to specifically remove any doubt that colleges, etc. are not included and thus our license to carry is entirely valid on campuses.

Given that, I think you guys should combine efforts with us (Gun Owners of Indiana - GOI) and work to eliminate the line in the Indiana Code that invalidates our licenses on ANY school grounds. It's a bad law that should never have survived its first committee. If we succeed in doing that, the ambiguity over colleges would be moot.

[cougar_guy04]

Originally posted by rhino465
It's a great idea. While most agree that "school" in the Indiana Code refers to K-12 operated by a school corporation (i.e. a public/gov't school), it would be good to specifically remove any doubt that colleges, etc. are not included and thus our license to carry is entirely valid on campuses.

Given that, I think you guys should combine efforts with us (Gun Owners of Indiana - GOI) and work to eliminate the line in the Indiana Code that invalidates our licenses on ANY school grounds. It's a bad law that should never have survived its first committee. If we succeed in doing that, the ambiguity over colleges would be moot.
What about private schools, like RHIT? Would that allow us to carry on campus there, or since it's a private school, we'd be SOL?

I kinda figure the Public Safety guys wouldn't like being out gunned by the general population, but I don't even know if they have an active shooter response plan setup.

[rhino465]

Originally posted by cougar_guy04
What about private schools, like RHIT? Would that allow us to carry on campus there, or since it's a private school, we'd be SOL?

The only thing stopping you from carrying on campus of any college in Indiana, whether public or private, would be your choice to adhere to whatever rules they have for their own school. If you're a student, you face whatever penalties the school can muster (like expulsion) for violations, but if you're not, you might be facing a trespassing charge 1) if you get caught, 2) you're asked to leave, and 3) you choose not to leave.

There are couple of people who vehemently disagree with this, but it's implicit in the code and accepted that "school" in the Indiana Code refers to K-12 operated by a school corporation, i.e. so-called public schools (I refer to them as government schools as they clearly do not serve the public in any way anymore).

As far as colleges go, there is a reason why Indiana University went through a huge thing creating rules to disallow students (and subsequently faculty and staff) from carrying their sidearms on campus a few years ago. There was no law to prevent it, so they made a rule. It's a bad rule, but most colleges have them now.

Of course, in enlightened states like Utah, not only is it entirely and explicitly legal to carry a gun on any school campus if you have a proper license ... not just colleges and private schools, but ANY school ... but their supreme court recently ruled (against the Univ. of Utah) that the schools can't stop you even with their rules. THAT is the way it needs to be here, both with schools and with all properties owned by the state or municipalities, with the possible exception of completely "secure" facilities like jails/prisons and certain parts of courthouses that are effectively jails.



Originally posted by cougar_guy04

I kinda figure the Public Safety guys wouldn't like being out gunned by the general population, but I don't even know if they have an active shooter response plan setup.

Good question. When I was there, security guys were not armed visibly, although I have no idea what any of them chose to carry discretely. If they were smart, they were carrying all the time.

In the case of a student, it's probably best to ensure that concealment is adequate, then apply the good ol' "Don't Ask; Don't Tell" principle. Even if you don't face any potential criminal penalties, you don't want to get expelled.

[cougar_guy04]

Originally posted by rhino465
Good question. When I was there, security guys were not armed visibly, although I have no idea what any of them chose to carry discretely. If they were smart, they were carrying all the time.
I'm around them a lot just because I'm always in the Gun Club room. They don't carry openly (only keys, a glove pouch, and flashlights on their duty belts), and I haven't been able spot them carrying concealed on their person. I know one of the officers hasn't even shot a gun since he left the sheriff's department. I honestly don't even know if they have their own firearms for the department in their office. After all this stuff that has gone down, I'm seriously thinking about going in to ask Gary if they have a plan for something like VT. If they're relying on THPD to get there quick, we're screwed. That's not a knock against the THPD, it's just a 40 block drive from the department to campus and even hauling the mail it'd take too long to get here. I know it's not likely to happen at Rose, but there are some strange cookies here that I wouldn't even trust with a Red Ryder.

Originally posted by rhino465
In the case of a student, it's probably best to ensure that concealment is adequate, then apply the good ol' "Don't Ask; Don't Tell" principle. Even if you don't face any potential criminal penalties, you don't want to get expelled.
Yeh, that's the quandry for me. The PS will tolerate a lot but they'll draw the line there.

[rhino465]

Originally posted by cougar_guy04


After all this stuff that has gone down, I'm seriously thinking about going in to ask Gary if they have a plan for something like VT.


Gary is a good man. I don't know how he will respond to something like that, but it won't hurt to ask. I'd be interested in hearing about his opinions, though.


Originally posted by cougar_guy04

If they're relying on THPD to get there quick, we're screwed. That's not a knock against the THPD, it's just a 40 block drive from the department to campus and even hauling the mail it'd take too long to get here.


Unfortunately that is the case everywhere, not just Rose-Hulman. The police have a hard job and most of them do it well, but when it comes to things like this, they are primarily historians, not actors. Even R-HIT security couldn't react quickly enough (assuming they were prepared to do so). That's and important reason why it's absolutely essential for people to 1) take responsibility for their own safety seriously, and 2) not be punished by law or rules for doing so.



Originally posted by cougar_guy04

Yeh, that's the quandry for me. The PS will tolerate a lot but they'll draw the line there.

Good luck making your decisions. I know what I would do, but I have 20 years of experience since I left there to help me "decide."

[mpholic]

Originally posted by rhino465
That's and important reason why it's absolutely essential for people to 1) take responsibility for their own safety seriously, and 2) not be punished by law or rules for doing so.


+1000 :thumbsup: