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hotpig
05-15-2007, 11:47
Check out the T shirt this guy chose to wear. It makes us look like a bunch of nut jobs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zIdP3j9Rkw

orginialc-rock
05-24-2007, 20:11
Hey man

c-rock here. I was the one who made the vid.

Hey,

at least he showed up. That means he is in this to help out.

Alot of folks never showed up, or even took the time to get out there to support us.


So dont knock the man. He at least talk the talk, and gave up his afternoon to give a damm.


Here is other vids from that same event

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJp3wq984n0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLGdAYkoYw8

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2716/sb100750yy4.jpg

hotpig
05-24-2007, 20:26
We would be better off with the professional vote buyers being there alone than to have people show up dressed like anti government play soldiers.

People showing up like that just proves to the Politicians that the masses should not be armed.

I have absolutely no doubt that he mean well. It is a hot button issue and his shirt pushes the wrong buttons.

orginialc-rock
05-24-2007, 20:28
Well,
tell me when they get here, cause none were there. Where were you? We missed you at the event. It would of nice to have you there to support us.
What gives?

On the professionials,
There ain't much in that way up here in Chicagoland. So you make due with what you have. :animlol:

hotpig
05-24-2007, 20:47
I will plead with you. Do not go dressed like a bunch of nut cases you are only hurting us.It is far better to call or fax these people. I do it all the time even though the Chicago Politicians get hateful from time to time.

If you want to talk to them in person wear normal people clothes. The Politicians will then see you as a normal gun nut like the rest of us. Not just as some Rambo wannabe nut that has no business with a gun.

orginialc-rock
05-24-2007, 21:07
When you going to realize it doesnt matter what you wear?

hotpig
05-24-2007, 21:13
:shocked:

kippjones
06-03-2007, 20:58
Originally posted by hotpig
Check out the T shirt this guy chose to wear. It makes us look like a bunch of nut jobs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zIdP3j9Rkw

With all due respect, your approach while commendable and appreciated is not the way to get things done. The only thing you are doing is upsetting the people who can make or break things.

Politics is all about negotiation. The approach you need is to research what is important to the person you want to win over and offer them support on one or more of those issue. You need to go out and round up support through other legislators on what you can offer the politician in terms of senate or house votes to give them support on something they want while you getting what you want from them.

This takes significant effort but it can be done. I think it is great you show up to these meetings but you need to handle things in a professional manner. Dress to impress, not to discourage. Yes, what you wear makes a difference. Wear a suit, people will take you seriously in a suit, not in labeled t-shirts.

Speak kindly and do not lecture the public official. Show them the same respect and courtesy you would as you do to a family member. Don't corner them and keep the conversation brief. Hand them a document with your ideas and suggestions kindly detailed and brief. You end the conversation, not them. This encourages them to speak with you again, not avoid you.

Take the time to research other issues that the public offcial is working on. Study those issues and learn how to help them. When you write or speak to them, talk about these issues on top of your issue at hand and what you can do to help them get passed.

We are all residents of IL no matter what party we support or issues we want addressed. You will definitely get their attention if you show you can help them whether they want your assistance or not. Also, lose the video recorder. This only intimidates and does not allow people to be honest with you if they know they are being recorded.

I hope you get the idea otherwise you are doing more harm than good. Obviously what you have been doing is not sucessful with the individual, that means change is required. Keep an open mind...

:) :) :)

hotpig
06-04-2007, 09:34
kippjones


Thanks for posting ideas better than I did.

Tecumseh
06-06-2007, 12:47
I dont see what is wrong with his Tshirt. Why didnt you go to the meeting in a suit and do all those wonderful things HotPig? I mean you are being critical of others yet not even trying yourself.

hotpig
06-06-2007, 13:03
If you honestly do not see anything wrong with that shirt under those circumstances I would be wasting bandwidth by responding more to this post.

kippjones explains it pretty good in his post.

mitchshrader
06-06-2007, 13:17
we got nutjobs.

we fight against nutjobs.

the folks want shall issue CCW don't support open carry, and the fudds don't support EBR's and the cowboy action guys don't care about hi cap mags and the gun 'community' isn't any such thing.

we are as much a community as guys all waiting at the bus stop. outside of our one mutual interest we have not so very much in common.

but to proclaim that our nutjobs don't have any purpose is ludicrous.

we need to LAUGH at our nutjobs.

we need to EMBARASS them into a bit more civil demeanor.

but we don't need to control em, if by 'nutjobs' you mean the contentious and unmannerly.

it's not a huge issue if a CCW holder shoots someone wrongly. it's not a huge issue if a gun owner has imperfect manners. it's not a huge issue that we aren't perfect.

we don't CLAIM to be perfect. i hope. nor without some reasons to apologize occasionally.

gunkid was OUR wingnut. so is zumbo, on another level.

our mistakes aren't going to stop happening because we defend our rights. we don't grow perfection because our answer isn't AS BAD as the answer of unarmed trembling.

yes, i agree seemly behaviour makes more friends, but i am NOT supporting your rights because I'm your friend. i'm your fellow citizen and i'll support your rights if i like you or not.

try that. if we got a wingnut, say, yeah, that's a wingnut, and move on.

if my cousins a drunk, ok, my cousins a drunk.

next point.

you can't ask for personal responsibility and not accept some folks aren't good at it.

that goes with. if you gave everyone a gun, shortly you'ld find out some folks are incompetent to control themselves, and that means incompetent to control guns.

hiding our ignorant doesn't teach them anything. blurring the truth is what got us here.

orginialc-rock
06-09-2007, 21:07
All i know is,

whats going on, is not working. If you want to keep on doing the same things, go ahead.

I think we need to try new ideas, new things. We need hail marys.

I got folks talking, I got folks thinking.

That is what we need.

If you want to go your route so be it. ITs all 4th generation now in our tatics.

As long as you make attempts, I can respect that.

If you ***** and moan, and dont do your part, is when I cant respect it.

hotpig
06-09-2007, 21:21
Originally posted by orginialc-rock
All i know is,

I got folks talking, I got folks thinking.

That is what we need.



Depends on if they are talking with you, not about you.

orginialc-rock
06-10-2007, 12:05
Well,

if you worry more about people talking about you, and allowing that to effect how you are being in the world, then you will accomplish nothing.
Let me ask you something, do you work for government hotpig?

Tecumseh
06-11-2007, 03:31
So Hotpig where were you when they were filming this? I was not there. Were you? So far C-Rock was the only one there standing up for our rights.

Its funny to me that you critisize someone for going and fighting for our rights while you sit and home and complain that we look bad. If you were so worried you would have showed up yourself.

hotpig
06-11-2007, 10:57
I'm busy trying to get this passed. Actually the four surrounding counties are headed in this direction.It may not hold water when push comes to shove with the state. I think it sends a strong message.



http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=273233

Tecumseh
06-14-2007, 18:54
So both of you are pushing progun bills and policies. You just decided to personally attack someone for doing it in a different manner.

hotpig
06-14-2007, 20:38
His manner as shown in the video is the same as shooting your self in the foot.

This is a numbers game. There are two sides of the fence. The side that has the most numbers win. We need more of the elected officials to cross over to our side of the fence to win.

It is very hard do get them to do it because the people that vote them into office want more gun control. Add to it our Mayor and Governor want more gun control.Crossing to the pro side is almost considered political suicide.

Poking them in the eye with a sharp stick is not the best way to get them to cross the line to your side.

My wife wants to drag me to a lunch with Blago and Obama later this summer. I would like to make a ass of them both but it will not help our cause. I will put my best foot foreword and hope that it pays off at a later date.

orginialc-rock
06-19-2007, 21:31
Originally posted by hotpig


It is very hard do get them to do it because the people that vote them into office want more gun control. Add to it our Mayor and Governor want more gun control.Crossing to the pro side is almost considered political suicide.

Poking them in the eye with a sharp stick is not the best way to get them to cross the line to your side.



First off,
most folks do not care about gun control. Even the cook AWB question showed that. Majority of the folks did not even vote for it. No yes, or no.

They been keeping this up over the years, even after 9-11

Plus these past two yrs, they want to give illegals DLs, while asking for more laws on citizens

We have a huge deficit, we have *****on issues.
Look at the gridlock right now going on.

We need to keep on the offensive. We need to cause more chaos.

kippjones
06-22-2007, 19:31
Originally posted by orginialc-rock
We need to cause more chaos.

I disagree.

orginialc-rock
06-24-2007, 13:16
why?

Why not get their feet on the fire? Get them on the defense, dealing with issues.


Look if state government closed on July 1st. How much better would things be? :rofl:

They need us more than we need them. :animlol:

hotpig
06-24-2007, 13:30
So what you are saying is you really are not pro 2nd amendment. You are the type of person that shows up at a peaceful demonstration with a mask on your face and start fires and throw rocks at the police.Maybe an Anarchist not a Patriot.

orginialc-rock
06-24-2007, 13:34
YOu really think SHTF if our state government closed for a few days?

I didnt say anything about throwing rocks. I am just saying it would be nice to see the DMV closed. Too see CAGE out of work for a few days.

PEople will still be able to get food, or eletric. Those aint run by government.

People will surive. Maybe some will realize we dont need as much government around either from such.

So what if Blago has to drive to springfield himself, instead of taking a jet each day??


c-rock

:rofl:

WPD80
06-26-2007, 13:27
C-Rock, I admire your fight for our rights as gun owners. I however must agree with hotpig, I have been lurking in this forum for a few years now... I have always seen Hotpig as a big gun advocate. I however think that the approach of milita's is the WRONG way. I truly think you see this too. You stike me to be a very smart person. I also want to thank you for your efforts.

I am not affilated with Hotpig nor am I paid by him:banana:

I just think that the Milita thing is a little overboard.....

P.S. I am a Chief of Police in Illinois whom belives that we should have CCW here in Illinois. I vote and joined the NRA.....

Thanks again for your efforts...

Tom:thumbsup:

kippjones
06-26-2007, 14:55
Originally posted by orginialc-rock
why?

Why not get their feet on the fire? Get them on the defense, dealing with issues.


Look if state government closed on July 1st. How much better would things be? :rofl:

They need us more than we need them. :animlol:

See my post earlier in the thread. :upeyes: :upeyes: :upeyes:

kippjones
06-26-2007, 14:57
Originally posted by WPD80
C-Rock, I admire your fight for our rights as gun owners. I however must agree with hotpig, I have been lurking in this forum for a few years now... I have always seen Hotpig as a big gun advocate. I however think that the approach of milita's is the WRONG way. I truly think you see this too. You stike me to be a very smart person. I also want to thank you for your efforts.

I am not affilated with Hotpig nor am I paid by him:banana:

I just think that the Milita thing is a little overboard.....

P.S. I am a Chief of Police in Illinois whom belives that we should have CCW here in Illinois. I vote and joined the NRA.....

Thanks again for your efforts...

Tom:thumbsup:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Tom,
Thank you for your service.

similac95
07-13-2007, 22:44
Originally posted by orginialc-rock
When you going to realize it doesnt matter what you wear?

ok now this is my 1st post on this forum so I'm not gonna go to silly for that comment but i cant stress how much it does matter.

1st impression is everything. i think I've heard that said a few times.

If i go to court for anything it matters.
If i go to a job interview it matters.
If i get pulled over for speeding it matters

When you dress like that it just puts fuel on the fire when you need damn fire extinguisher. I guess it would be like arguing with someone that you are not a stoner and then wearing a t-shirt with a weed leaf on it. your just proving a point not making a argument. not to mention unless you are highly educated you are not going to do anything but give the suits something to laugh about at happy hour.

I have actually been looking into becoming a private investigator just so i can carry. i guess ill do what i gotta and email who i have to. but i do know im not gonna go to a place like that with a "killem all and let god sort em out" tshirt on and expect to make a difference.

Jeff82
07-13-2007, 23:02
Originally posted by hotpig
Check out the T shirt this guy chose to wear. It makes us look like a bunch of nut jobs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zIdP3j9Rkw
What? Why? By acknowledging the fact that he's subject to the law as explained in USC Title 10, Subtitle A, Part 1, Chapter 13, para 311?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000311----000-.html

You owe dude an apology.

And shame on those of you that have allowed the lib-tard left to warp your mind into thinking a militia is a bad thing!!

(Organized groups of people agreeing ["conspiring"] to break laws are rightfully called "gangs" not "militias" who support laws.)

hotpig
07-13-2007, 23:09
Read the rest of this thread before thinking that I owe him anything. It is a hard uphill fight in this state. Sometimes people who mean well go about things the wrong way.

similac95
07-13-2007, 23:11
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jeff82
What? Why? By acknowledging the fact that he's subject to the law as explained in USC Title 10, Subtitle A, Part 1, Chapter 13, para 311?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000311----000-.html

You owe dude an apology. [/QUOTE

would be great if thats what people associated militia with and not hillbillies with 2 teeth shooting at everything they see.

Jeff82
07-13-2007, 23:17
Originally posted by hotpig
Read the rest of this thread before thinking that I owe him anything. It is a hard uphill fight in this state. Sometimes people who mean well go about things the wrong way.
And I suppose you're the one with the calling to determine the "right way"?

He states a fact and you get on his case for it? Who the "H" are you?

And I did read the entire thread. That's why I edited my post. Quit playing BS footsie with these idiot politicians. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Quit letting them decide (change) the definitions of words.

Right is right, dagnabit!

Do not let them dictate terms!

Jeff82
07-13-2007, 23:19
Originally posted by similac95
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jeff82
What? Why? By acknowledging the fact that he's subject to the law as explained in USC Title 10, Subtitle A, Part 1, Chapter 13, para 311?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000311----000-.html

You owe dude an apology. [/QUOTE

would be great if thats what people associated militia with and not hillbillies with 2 teeth shooting at everything they see.
Then get your education from a dictionary and legal reference site instead of the MSM. Your job is to be eternally vigilant and not to be a sheeple.

similac95
07-13-2007, 23:39
wasnt talkin about myself there killer. talking about the politicians that are trying to pass all these laws. we have all seen the video of the woman who had no idea what one of the items were in her bill. if that woman heard the word militia she would think "omg i hear they shoot poor little deer with rocket launchers". besides who wants to be book smart. bush never read a book in his life.

hotpig
07-13-2007, 23:46
Maybe I need to make this simple to understand.

There are two groups of people standing on opposite sides of a line.

One group has more people than the other. This group has the majority of people in it so they elect rule makers. The rule makers make rules that both groups have to follow.

Many people in the small group are trying to get people from the much more powerful group to join them.They are particularly trying hard to get the rule makers to cross the line to the small group.

Unfortunately there are some people in the small group that have decided that heckling the rule makers was a fun thing to do.

The rule makers do not want to associate with people who make trouble. It would cost them votes from the majority to do so.

Jeff82
07-14-2007, 00:04
Originally posted by hotpig
Maybe I need to make this simple to understand.

There are two groups of people standing on opposite sides of a line.

One group has more people than the other. This group has the majority of people in it so they elect rule makers. The rule makers make rules that both groups have to follow.

Many people in the small group are trying to get people from the much more powerful group to join them.They are particularly trying hard to get the rule makers to cross the line to the small group.

Unfortunately there are some people in the small group that have decided that heckling the rule makers was a fun thing to do.

The rule makers do not want to associate with people who make trouble. It would cost them votes from the majority to do so.
So the guy stating the fact is the heckler?

The problem is we've all been drawn into playing this political game. We will never win without an educated populace. The politician needs an ignorant electorate to hold onto power. We can start by teaching them (the large group) the real meaning of "militia"...

Some things majority rules and in some, like the Bill of Rights, there is simply right and wrong. Dude with the militia shirt is right. He's not in the wrong. The idiots with the skewed idea of what it is need to be corrected, not the other way around. "Move up to standard, not drop down to dumb."

Jeff82
07-14-2007, 00:07
Originally posted by similac95
wasnt talkin about myself there killer. talking about the politicians that are trying to pass all these laws. we have all seen the video of the woman who had no idea what one of the items were in her bill. if that woman heard the word militia she would think "omg i hear they shoot poor little deer with rocket launchers". besides who wants to be book smart. bush never read a book in his life.
I could have worded that a little better. My apologies. I intended that to be general in nature (if the shoe fits... if it doesn't then help your neighbor.)

similac95
07-14-2007, 00:09
Originally posted by Jeff82
I could have worded that a little better. My apologies. I intended that to be general in nature (if the shoe fits... if it doesn't then help your neighbor.)

i would hope we are all on the same side.

lonewolf01
08-06-2007, 18:16
IMHO, hotpig is right. Perception is reality and that type of shirt makes even me think about the wackos on "our" side. If that's the case, then imagine what a politician would think.

At least he's trying to do something though.

Jeff82
08-06-2007, 20:36
Originally posted by lonewolf01
IMHO, hotpig is right. Perception is reality and that type of shirt makes even me think about the wackos on "our" side. If that's the case, then imagine what a politician would think.

At least he's trying to do something though. Why's is gotta be "wackos"? Sometimes we make things much more difficultthen they actually are and it always ends up working against us.

What it is is "right" or "wrong". He's right any way you slice it. The fact that someone else may become upset is their prob. Unfortunetly it seems most of us aren't "forward" enough to call them on it when they start whining.