View Full Version : Carrying w/out CCW?
FLuXmr2spyder
05-18-2007, 21:35
just curious on what the consequences are if you were to get caught with a firearm in your car loaded and ready to fire, even if it was your gun and legally registered under your name?
reason being, after getting into this new hobby...ive heard of more and more people doing that, even with out a CCW license
i also noticed that a lot of small business owners carry while they are at work...is that also legal w/out a ccw license?
curious cus i do own my own business and it recently got broken into in broad daylight, luckily i was NOT there
thanx in advanced
If it's in your car and not on your person, then you will be charged with 2 misdemeanors.
Concealed weapon in vehicle. Loaded weapon in vehicle.
If it's found on your person while in your car, then you will be charged with 4 misdemeanors.
Concealed weapon on person. Loaded weapon on person. Concealed weapon in vehicle. Loaded weapon in vehicle.
If caught expect jail time, a fine, confiscation of your weapon, and probation (which prohibits the ownership & possession of firearms, until your probation ends).
You can legally carry conceal and/or open carry on private property that you own.
FLuXmr2spyder
05-19-2007, 11:23
Originally posted by Quiet
If it's in your car and not on your person, then you will be charged with 2 misdemeanors.
Concealed weapon in vehicle. Loaded weapon in vehicle.
If it's found on your person while in your car, then you will be charged with 4 misdemeanors.
Concealed weapon on person. Loaded weapon on person. Concealed weapon in vehicle. Loaded weapon in vehicle.
If caught expect jail time, a fine, confiscation of your weapon, and probation (which prohibits the ownership & possession of firearms, until your probation ends).
You can legally carry conceal and/or open carry on private property that you own.
thanx for the info, but technically if i rent my space from a leasing office that does mean its not my legal private property? or does it...i mean i own the business but not the building?
thanx again
Originally posted by FLuXmr2spyder
thanx for the info, but technically if i rent my space from a leasing office that does mean its not my legal private property? or does it...i mean i own the business but not the building?
thanx again
Yes.
If you are a renter, you are still good to go.
CA Penal Codes 12026, 12031(h)
FLuXmr2spyder
05-20-2007, 11:48
Originally posted by Quiet
Yes.
If you are a renter, you are still good to go.
CA Penal Codes 12026, 12031(h)
oh sweet...thank you for clearing that up...great info
:thumbsup:
have any of you seen or used the Titan Gun Vault in your housew ,ork or car?
the website says its legal in california but didnt quite go into detail as of how, since carrying any loaded weapon in cali is a NO NO?
10mmAuto
05-24-2007, 02:08
What quiet said, but I'd like to add a few more points:
If the gun was not registered in your name, then all of the violations listed above are bumped up to felonies. But, I know you originally said they gun was registered in your name.
Second, as far as carrying concealed at your place of employment, you must have permission from your boss and/or owner of the business on the private property. If you're the boss on your property (owned, leased, rented, it doesn't matter), then you're good to carry concealed.
Lastly, your home (house, apartment, condo, camp site, etc...) you can carry concealed all day long, period.
Just a little "411."
FLuXmr2spyder
05-24-2007, 03:24
thanx for the info...i def. appreciate it :thumbsup:
First time caught with a loaded gun in the car is a misdemeanor. They may cite and release you right there, but more than likely, you will be transported to jail, cited and released there.
The second time you are caught with a loaded weapon in the car is a felony. Serious stuff, and you lose the right to own or possess weapons.
You can legally transport a gun from home to private workplace and back, or from a shooting contest, or gun range and back. Make sure you keep receipts from the range, and always keep the gun in a locked container, with the ammo seperate from the gun. Don't use the excuse that you were at the range many hours ago, but forgot to take the gun home...won't fly.
If you are dressed like Snoopp Doggy Dog, and even if you are legally carrying a weapon, be prepared to have a lot of attention being paid to you. Gang members suck.
FLuXmr2spyder
05-24-2007, 04:05
good info...so the weapons still have to be locked even if they are separated from the ammo?
and dont worry i dont look anything like snoop, im a short filipino, no baggy clothing, no pants sagging, hahahaha :thumbsup:
Originally posted by Tilley
First time caught with a loaded gun in the car is a misdemeanor. They may cite and release you right there, but more than likely, you will be transported to jail, cited and released there.
The second time you are caught with a loaded weapon in the car is a felony. Serious stuff, and you lose the right to own or possess weapons.
You can legally transport a gun from home to private workplace and back, or from a shooting contest, or gun range and back. Make sure you keep receipts from the range, and always keep the gun in a locked container, with the ammo seperate from the gun. Don't use the excuse that you were at the range many hours ago, but forgot to take the gun home...won't fly.
If you are dressed like Snoopp Doggy Dog, and even if you are legally carrying a weapon, be prepared to have a lot of attention being paid to you. Gang members suck.
Dressed like Snoop Dog? Would that be a stereotypical response?
:rofl:
Originally posted by Delta-x
Dressed like Snoop Dog? Would that be a stereotypical response?
:rofl:
Of course it is...hey, you're not an ACLU lawyer, are ya? :supergrin:
Originally posted by Tilley
Of course it is...hey, you're not an ACLU lawyer, are ya? :supergrin:
I would be the exact opposite of any ACLU....:supergrin:
tbhracing
05-24-2007, 18:10
After onlky scanning the above postings, I would like to add- Please do not try to skirt around the gun laws in CA.
Its just not worth it.
Originally posted by boukca
After onlky scanning the above postings, I would like to add- Please do not try to skirt around the gun laws in CA.
Its just not worth it.
Agreed. And just to note that if this thread wanders off course and starts discussing illegal activity, it will be closed.
Originally posted by Fred
Agreed. And just to note that if this thread wanders off course and starts discussing illegal activity, it will be closed.
The only time it is not illegal to carry a loaded firearm in CA is if your life (or someone elses) is in immediate danger, and it is impossible to either contact the police, or wait for them to show up.
With that said, if you feel the necessity to carry a firearm illegally in California, I suppose you need to sit down and take an honest look into your current lifestyle. Whatever is causing you to feel the need to carry a gun for protection needs to be corrected. No one should have to live in fear for their safety. I guess this is true anywhere, and not just in California.
FLuXmr2spyder
05-25-2007, 00:03
not skirting...askin info so i dont get in trouble...im all new to this...trust me i wont risk anything dumb...i will be applying for a CCW and going to do everything i (legally) can to get one...thanx again :thumbsup:
Great advice from everybody. The only thing I have to add if go on line and read the laws for your self. If you ever get into a situiation where your going to have to explain your actions to a LEO or the courts, the last thing you want to say is "Well some guy on the Internet told me I could do it" I am not saying that the advice here is not legit. But for your own peace of mine I would read up and be able to cite the laws and where you found the info.
FLuXmr2spyder
05-25-2007, 12:23
good idea :thumbsup:
Mark9Fogger
05-27-2007, 11:34
I highly recommend a book that is usually found in gun stores called "How to own a gun and stay out of jail 2007" California Edition. It explains CA gun laws in simple terms with penal codes to back it up.
Originally posted by Mark9Fogger
I highly recommend a book that is usually found in gun stores called "How to own a gun and stay out of jail 2007" California Edition. It explains CA gun laws in simple terms with penal codes to back it up.
I also recommend this book.
Updated versions are released every year.
Instructors at the RSO Academy also recommed you buy and read this book (well, they did back in 2003 when I was there).
10mmAuto
05-27-2007, 12:53
Originally posted by Tilley
..With that said, if you feel the necessity to carry a firearm illegally in California, I suppose you need to sit down and take an honest look into your current lifestyle. Whatever is causing you to feel the need to carry a gun for protection needs to be corrected. No one should have to live in fear for their safety. I guess this is true anywhere, and not just in California.
Hmmmmm I kinda see what you're talking about, or at least the point you were trying to make here Tilley, however....
I feel that just because the a law abiding citizen wants to carry a firearm for protection and the law forbids him/her to do so, doesn't mean that honest citizen is imoral, crazy, careless or a "criminal."
I think the CA CCW laws are nuts. I think this should be a "shall issue" state, just like the 38+ other states are.
If someone doesn't feel safe in this state and they want to carry a concealed weapon, I don't blame them. It's a personal choice to do so even if it's illegal. I would say it is NOT WISE to do so, but it's up to the individual.
I'll give you an example. My grandfather who fought in WWII in Guadalcanal and was shot multiple times but survived. He walked with a cane and a limp for the rest of his life. In his late 80's, he lived in a rough neighborhood but went for walks every afternoon. He refussed to move. He refused to live in fear after living in his same neighborhood for over 50 years and being robbed/mugged twice before.
He finally decided to carry his Walther PPK/S on his dailey walks for protection. He did not have a CCW. He couldn't get one. (Los Angeles County refused to give him a CCW). His belief was that he'd rather get his daily walks in and perhaps have to use his .380 to save his life instead of staying indoors all day withering away and dying.
He knew he was talking a chance with getting caught, but he didn't care. In his condition he couldn't risk getting mugged again and possibly killed. He said he'd rather risk getting caught with a 1st time misdemeanor than to be dead by a mugger.
In conclusion, I don't think people should be judged as to why they want to carry a gun for protection. Only L/E and the "elite" in society can afford bodyguards and get CCW's with ease. So, if one wants to carry a gun illegally for protection, I wish them luck and all the best.
Originally posted by 10mmAuto
So, if one wants to carry a gun illegally for protection, I wish them luck and all the best.
So do I. I agree with everything you have said, and I am a LEO.
If your grandfather has been mugged or robbed in the neighborhood he's been in the majority of his life, then he is placing himself in a dangerous position by being stubborn and refusing to see that the place he calls home has been taken over by thugs.
You can make a choice to carry illegally, but is it really worth going to jail over? As a police officer, if someone reports your grandfather for carrying a gun, I don't really have much of a choice in what I need to do if I caught your grandfather carrying. What's a healthier choice, moving to a better area, or going to jail?
This is a very large world with many wonderful places to live. I am sure he has countless memories of his youth, his wife and kids, and they will follow him regardless of where he lives. He can't do anything to change the urban decay, but he can make a conscious choice to live in a nicer and safer environment.
The guns laws in California stink. The pay is great, and there is no shortage of work as long as idiots exist, but I too am contemplating a change. I am tired of all the drama of gangs, crimes, and bad values. I don't want to live and die in Southern California. There must be nicer places.
Ever heard of Baytown, Texas? :upeyes:
The cost of real estate in CA is a major factor when considering relocating to a "nicer" neighborhood.
So, do people in a lower social-economic bracket have a less right to defend themselves than people in a higher social-economic bracket?
10mmAuto
05-27-2007, 15:33
Originally posted by Tilley
... and I am a LEO. ...As a police officer, if someone reports your grandfather for carrying a gun, I don't really have much of a choice in what I need to do if I caught your grandfather carrying.
I'm LEO in CA too.
Actually since carrying a concealed gun in CA is only a misdemeanor (provided it's registered and the guy is a "good guy" and all that...) then us cops can use "Sprit of the Law" enforcment.
I've done it a few times during my career. About 3 times with honest citizens carrying within their cars...
And once with a guy going for a walk with his wife.
In all cases I ran everybody for warrants and to ascertain if they were on parole/probation. I checked the gun to make sure it wasn't stolen; I checked the person out to see if he/she was a true "good guy/bad guy;" and I finally sent them on their way home with a warning.
In all the times just to protect myself, I instructed each person to unload the gun and take it home, secured if possible.
Under the "Sprit of the Law," here in CA, I did not break any laws as cops are still allowed to give warnings to people. ...EVEN WHEN A PERSON CARRIES A GUN UNLAWFULLY.
Lastly, I'll never forget the time my partner and I saw a fellow cop come into the station and book an old man around the age of 90 for carrying a loaded gun in his car. The gun had been in his 1970's car for decades and the old man was an "honest citizen."
That cop caught so much S&!t from us (NRA card carrying members) cops. We thought it was rediculous to take an honest citizen to jail because of a stupid law that doesn't list the difference between a "real" criminal and an "honest" citizen.
Originally posted by 10mmAuto
Under the "Sprit of the Law," here in CA, I did not break any laws as cops are still allowed to give warnings to people. ...EVEN WHEN A PERSON CARRIES A GUN UNLAWFULLY.
We thought it was rediculous to take an honest citizen to jail because of a stupid law that doesn't list the difference between a "real" criminal and an "honest" citizen.
My middle name is "Spirit of the Law," BUT, my last name is "Vicarious Liability." I love my house, and my car, my career, and my bank account. I would be very careful letting some guy walk around with a gun, then he offs himself, or his girlfriend who he just found out is cheating on him. So far, I have never been tested because the only people I found carrying illegally were "shaved-heads."
Would I cite someone for carrying a gun...probably. First time is a misdemeanor, second time a felony. I don't make the rules. What's next, "oh it's only a little weed..."
It's still a crime.
FLuXmr2spyder
05-27-2007, 20:20
i agree witsh all point said here...but just to let you all know..I AM NOT going to illegaly carry a concealed weapon for a few reasons!
1. it is highly illegal
2. even though im a real good guy and dont have a record or anything like that, i am of filipino decent and do wear HIP HOP attire clothes when im not working... i am a small business owner and a california licensed real estate agent, and i will not let anything **** my money up...if you catch my drift
3. but on the same token since i am young and people know i have money it makes me an easy target for haters, thieves etc. i do live in a real good neighborhood its only been around for 2years, and yes my house got broken into while i was home, was afraid yes, and thatis why i know own 4 guns and will be buying some more
on that same month my SHOP got broken into and it was robbed of about $10K worth of items, and so did my truck!!!
...so beleive me i would LOVE to carry concealed 24/7 even if it was illegal...but I simply WONT!!!...i am in the process of applying for a CCW and i will try my hardest and best to aquire one
thanx again
10mmAuto
05-27-2007, 23:37
Originally posted by Tilley
My middle name is "Spirit of the Law," BUT, my last name is "Vicarious Liability." I love my house, and my car, my career, and my bank account. I would be very careful letting some guy walk around with a gun, then he offs himself, or his girlfriend who he just found out is cheating on him.
Vicarious Liability.........yes, if you let a shaved headed baldy-boy go with a gun.
If you let 80 year old grand-pappy, or a 40 something mom on her way home from work go with the gun and a warning, you're not going to get into trouble.
Remember, you're still allowed to make a decision reference "spirit" or "letter" of the law. (Unless you're LAPD). They're not allowed to "think" by themselves without a Sergeant's approval.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Originally posted by 10mmAuto
Remember, you're still allowed to make a decision reference "spirit" or "letter" of the law. (Unless you're LAPD). They're not allowed to "think" by themselves without a Sergeant's approval.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
And here I thought "Spirit of the Law" referred to interpreting a law in the spirit in which it was intended. Thanks to you, I now know it means you as an individual officer can decide who it applies to, and who it doesn't, depending on who you feel is worthy of your approval. Kinda like playing God, huh?
Let me know when you come out with a training video on how you interpret the California Penal Code, I'm sure the men and women of LAPD would benefit greatly from your sage words of wisdom...
...providing of course they can get approval from their supervisors!
Penal Code 417(g):
It is illegal to carry a loaded firearm in public if you are a shaved headed baldy-boy. All others can carry at the descretion of Captain 10mmAuto.
An illegally carried gun could get you a misdemeanor or a felony.
Bad mistake.
Criminal record for gun crime.
10mmAuto
05-28-2007, 12:00
Originally posted by Tilley
And here I thought "Spirit of the Law" referred to interpreting a law in the spirit in which it was intended. Thanks to you, I now know it means you as an individual officer can decide who it applies to, and who it doesn't, depending on who you feel is worthy of your approval. Kinda like playing God, huh?
Let me know when you come out with a training video on how you interpret the California Penal Code, I'm sure the men and women of LAPD would benefit greatly from your sage words of wisdom...
...providing of course they can get approval from their supervisors!
Penal Code 417(g):
It is illegal to carry a loaded firearm in public if you are a shaved headed baldy-boy. All others can carry at the descretion of Captain 10mmAuto.
WOW! Obviously Tilley you must have had a hard time passing your psych test with that anger! Ouch!
Second point, it's "Chief" not "Captain." Don't you know how to address your superiors???? :tongueout:
Third point "Mr. Anger-Management" is that Spirit of the Law means that an officer has descretion in decideing if actually taking somebody into custody is the "right-thing-to-do." Does that 80+ year old man really have the INTENT to cause harm to innocent civilians with his firearm on his Sunday evening walk? No. That is why Sprirt of the law gives cops the REASONABLE ability to end a situation in a more harmonious way without having to just TAKE SOMEONE TO JAIL! Just "because."
Tilley, under your way of thinking by quoting the CA penal code, it's like you've never been taught the DIFFERENCE between "Spirit" and "Letter" of the law. :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:
So by what you're saying Tilley is that if I'm "playing God" than every cop who just gives a WARING for a speeding ticket is also "playing God." Or a cop that catches a kid with a joint and lets him go is also "playing God." Or a cop that give a drunk driver a ride home instead of jail is also "Playing God."
Guess what Tilley? Cops have that descretion! Cops make those types of decisions every day! That's why "Spirit" and "Letter" of the law philosophies were created in law enforcement!
Do you get it now? Maybe someday if you pass your psych test or get off training, you'll understand that principle.......kid.
:tongueout: :tongueout: :tongueout: :tongueout: :tongueout: :tongueout:
Originally posted by Tilley
You can legally transport a gun from home to private workplace and back, or from a shooting contest, or gun range and back. Make sure you keep receipts from the range, and always keep the gun in a locked container, with the ammo seperate from the gun. Don't use the excuse that you were at the range many hours ago, but forgot to take the gun home...won't fly.
Might be a silly question but how about transporting to another city to go shoot with a friend? Like I'm thinking of going to LA next week and I'd like to bring my gun down there to the range with some buddies, am I breaking any laws? It will be secured in the trunk and lock of course.
Apprentice_941
05-28-2007, 12:42
Originally posted by Tilley
...if you feel the necessity to carry a firearm illegally in California, I suppose you need to sit down and take an honest look into your current lifestyle. Whatever is causing you to feel the need to carry a gun for protection needs to be corrected.
What a load of bull****! Who taught you to speak like that? Sounds like the kind of hooey you'd get from some liberal West L.A. Psychiatrist.
Originally posted by syne_24
Might be a silly question but how about transporting to another city to go shoot with a friend? Like I'm thinking of going to LA next week and I'd like to bring my gun down there to the range with some buddies, am I breaking any laws? It will be secured in the trunk and lock of course.
Nope. Make sure it's unloaded too.
:thumbsup:
K-12Glock19
05-28-2007, 13:17
This crap is exactly the reason I moved to Texas. I remember the day when my wife and I drove over the Arizona border, and I loaded my Glock 19 to put in my holster. California to my back. The road to Texas in front of me.
You guys have no idea what a relief it is knowing I will no longer need to be a victim without some protection. I was carjacked on Halloween night of 1993, and have been unable to protect myself until now.
I felt a relief as I chambered a round knowing that I could protect myself without having to deal with response time by police in a life or death situation.
10MM, keep up your discretion. California needs more cops like you. I have noticed several law enforcement officers from CA that have a "nobody except me" attitude when it comes to firearms posession. Fewer guns on the street by gangbangers makes sense, but fewer guns on the street by permit holders in no way makes sense.
I can't help but fee I am the odd man out here. In the 33 years I have lived in CA (the first 17 were in the bay area) the rest here in Nor Cal. I have never been in a situiation where I was in imminent danger, or feared for my life. I have lived in really nice neighborhoods and the ghetto. It always amazes me the excuses people use when they break the law. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Do I feel better knowing that Leo's have the ability to use "spirit of the law?" Yes. Would I illegally carry in the hopes if I ever got caught I would be let off with a warning? No. Its pretty simple, if you don't break the law you don't get in trouble. If your at the point that you don't want to leave the safety of your house with out carrying a gun, than maybe its time to move. If I ever felt that way I would leave. Before I catch hell for my thoughts here me out. Anybody can just pack up and move. My family is that important to me. I would leave with nothing but my family and the cloths on my back to secure there safety. I think the OP is on the right track.
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