HD Validity of a 20 gauge

[pugman]

I read all the subject line going back a few months and didn't see one addressing this and wanted to get the forum's opinion.

I wanted to get one for my wife. As she is pretty short, she has a hard time cycling a full size shotgun--so my next thought ran to a youth model.

At 119#, recoil is a bit of a concern so again I'm thinking 20 gauge.

I know training will be brought up, but if possible I want to keep it focused on the validity of a 20 gauge vs 12 gauge as a HD firearm. I would rather have her trained with a 20 gauge and feel comfortable, than a 12 gauge and have the least bit of anxiety.

What about defensive ammo availability. If its available in 12 is it always available in 20?

[studsterkel]

I think that a 20 gauge will be fine if you step up your ammo a notch. If SOME authors of articles think you can use birdshot for self defense (though saying you can't go wrong with 00 buckshot), then I'd think she should be safe shooting 20 gauge buckshot. Everybody's always worried about having to kill a rhino coked up on meth running at your full bore. I bet 99% of intruders would be subdued by 1 or 2 blasts from any significant shell. the first would at least set him up and #2 will put him down. then you still have #s 3, 4, ....

crap it's lead or steel at 1000mph!

[MrMurphy]

Either use low recoil 00 Buck in 12ga (Hornady TAP has very little recoil, about what a 20ga has, but still delivers more pellets) or use a 20ga with a good buck load.

It'll deliver nearly the same performance at conversational distances. You lose a pellet, maybe two, and some range, but at house distances, (i.e under 15 yards or so) the bad guy is not going to really notice any difference.

[Tiel Raptor]

I have two in 20ga for my daughter's and my wife, and truefully for me cause I'm a wuss since my shoulder operation.

I use Feeral Premium buckshot and don't think a badguy would know the differance if he/she was hit with a 20ga or 12ga.

Jerry

[Gunfixr]

From across the room a 12ga. makes a fist sized hole.

From across the room a 20ga. makes a fist sized hole.

Do you think the bad guy will notice the difference?

[AZG30guy]

If you're still wondering about the effectiveness of 20ga, you might want to pop into the box of truth site.

www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm)

I hope this link works.

He has 20ga #3 and 00 buck testing well.

If you're not familiar with this site, the guy that's in it is basically the "Mythbuster's" of internet gun folklore. He basically runs the common man's ballistic tests. From what I can tell he is pretty unbiased. When the site first started out he did not have all the advertising we see now.

Hope this helps

[Lowrider 49]

No experience with milk jugs full of water but 20 Ga Lightfield slugs will penetrate lengthwise in a 150 lb doe////in the chest and out thru the left hip. No doubt it will do the same in a human or maybe a couple of them front to back.

Federal 20 ga Foster slugs will do a wonderful job on deer inside 40 yds...again, they should do the same on a human....still trying to get the deer to wear jeans for a good comparison test.

Since I switched from 12 to 20 ga about 5 years ago, I have had nothing but one shot kills on about 21 or 22 whitetail deer mostly doe inside 40 yds with a 20 ga. H&R Ultra single shot. AS a result, I'm convinced the 20 ga is a perfectly adequate defense round with a slug. We have a couple 20 ga 870 Express set up with slugs...hope I never get to prove I am right!!

[Baba Louie]

The only downside I could think of is that most 20 ga weigh less than 12 ga by a few oz.s which may (or may not) affect felt recoil.

It's still gonna put a world of hurt on target.

[susan28]

here's an article on the Saiga shotguns http://club.guns.ru/eng/saiga20.html which discuss the difference between the 20 and the 12 guage versions, replete with tons of data of different brands of both slugs and shot in both guages, and it says that the 20ga slugs actually have slightly better penetration due to similar powder load coupled with smaller diameter.

it goes on to make the obligatory comment of better "stopping power" with the 12ga, but i think the better penetration would make me feel more confident than lesser penetration with a slightly larger hole.

i'm seriously considering the 20 for the above reason plus higher capacity (the saigas have detachable box mags and there are 10rd mags available for the 20, i think the 12's only go up to 8).

[ElevatedThreat]

20 gauge with slug or #3 buck is acceptable for home defense.

If there is a down side to buckshot in the 20 gauge, it is that the buckshot pellets used are often plain soft lead - not plated hardened lead as in 12 gauge.

So shop for premium ammo in 20 gauge.

Why more makers don't take what they have learned about shotguns in making quality 12 gauge loads, and apply it to 20 gauge, I can't say.

Smaller market perhaps?

-ET

[Lowrider 49]

I had to do it....4 milk jugs full of water and a 20 ga Lightfield slug at 25 feet. First jug was blown apart (sprayed me with water) and turned into a flat piece of plastic. Second jug was also blown apart, but not as badly as the first. Third jug had one hole with 2 pieces of lead in the bottom and there was no exit hole. Fourth jug was untouched.

Findings: I can kill two milk jugs back to back and wound a third if ever confronted with that situation....further validating my belief that a 20ga slug is a fine defense tool.

Based upon my experience with live deer flesh, I think there is little corrolation between water filled milk jugs and real life wounding/kill effects of a 20 ga slug.

It is comforting to know that if an intruder were carrying a full milk jug in front of him, I can now shoot thru it with confidence, knowing the slug will probably completely penetrate the perp too.

I'll try #3 buck as soon as I save up some more milk jugs.

[ElevatedThreat]

Originally posted by Lowrider 49
Based upon my experience with live deer flesh, I think there is little corrolation between water filled milk jugs and real life wounding/kill effects of a 20 ga slug.

Agreed, but the value of shooting milk jugs is in comparing one round to another. The water-filled jugs are standardized, available, cheap, and safe to shoot -- thus their popularity as testing media.

(Box O'Truth points out that jugs of water are much tougher on bullets than real flash-and-blood targets, and was impressed by 20-gauge #3 buck performance against the jugs.)

-ET

[method]

Originally posted by susan28
here's an article on the Saiga shotguns http://club.guns.ru/eng/saiga20.html which discuss the difference between the 20 and the 12 guage versions, replete with tons of data of different brands of both slugs and shot in both guages, and it says that the 20ga slugs actually have slightly better penetration due to similar powder load coupled with smaller diameter.

it goes on to make the obligatory comment of better "stopping power" with the 12ga, but i think the better penetration would make me feel more confident than lesser penetration with a slightly larger hole.

i'm seriously considering the 20 for the above reason plus higher capacity (the saigas have detachable box mags and there are 10rd mags available for the 20, i think the 12's only go up to 8).

There are U.S. made 10rd mags for the Saiga12, but they're pricey, as are all S12 mags.

[Lowrider 49]

My 20 ga buckshot attempt to assault milk jugs was a failure!! I fired 2 Remington 20ga #3 buck (20 pellets) at the subject milk jugs at 25 FEET and both rounds had a pattern so large they failed to hit the milk jugs!!

I'm attributing this to the fact that I used a 20ga NEF rifled barrel to fire the buckshot, causing it to spin and disperse widely. I only found 13 of 40 pellets fired on an 18" sq box I had behind the attacking milk jugs. Lesson learned....don't use buckshot in an unchoked rifled barrel.

So it wasn't a complete waste of time, I shot the 4 milk jugs with a 20ga Federal maximum Hi-Shok Slug (Foster style) and had very similar results as those mentioned above with the Lightfields....3 jugs perforated (first 2 blown up and only bits of lead in the third jug) and the 4th untouched. Leaving me to believe you only really need a $2 a box Foster slug to slaughter milk jugs at 25 feet! The $8 a box of 5 Lightfields are certainly much more accurate at 100 yds than the Foster slugs, so I'll continue to use them for longer shots when the milk jugs are mustering, before they have begun their charge!!

Although not a terribly scientific study, this has further deepened my belief that a 20ga slug is just fine for offence or defense out to 40 yds on non-armored targets. With the target at 25 feet, I suspect you will find yourself dotted with pieces of your target unless it's clothing holds it in place.

Happy Father's Day to everyone and stay safe!!

[EddieMossberg]

Originally posted by pugman
I read all the subject line going back a few months and didn't see one addressing this and wanted to get the forum's opinion.

I wanted to get one for my wife. As she is pretty short, she has a hard time cycling a full size shotgun--so my next thought ran to a youth model.

At 119#, recoil is a bit of a concern so again I'm thinking 20 gauge.

I know training will be brought up, but if possible I want to keep it focused on the validity of a 20 gauge vs 12 gauge as a HD firearm. I would rather have her trained with a 20 gauge and feel comfortable, than a 12 gauge and have the least bit of anxiety.

What about defensive ammo availability. If its available in 12 is it always available in 20? Hi pugman, have you ever considered a nice 20 gauge semiauto shotgun? This would eliminate the need to cycle the action entirely and would be very controllable with a little practice. They are produced by several reputable manufacturers!:thumbsup: Oh, and in my opinion, 20 gauge will do the trick! I have one for hd.

[GLOCK35TX]

Simple:

A hole in the center of the chest - is a hole in the center of the chest...doesnt matter what gauge.

It's all about shot placement