OK in cali

[FLuXmr2spyder]

saw these products and wanted to know if any of these can be used legally in the state of california w/out a CCW?

comments and suggestions are welcome

http://www.center-of-mass.com/ - in car gun safe
http://www.center-of-mass.com/Images/CarSafe/LTop1911_5Cropped.jpg

and/or

http://www.titangunvault.com/ - in car / portable gun vault
http://www.titangunvault.com/images/biggallery-00.jpg

Thanx in Advanced

[Fred]

yes, they are legal to use in a car provided they are locked, the gun is unloaded and no ammo is stored with the handgun. It's pretty much the same rules for car carry no matter what the container - unloaded gun, locked container, ammo carried separate from gun.

[FLuXmr2spyder]

Originally posted by Fred
yes, they are legal to use in a car provided they are locked, the gun is unloaded and no ammo is stored with the handgun. It's pretty much the same rules for car carry no matter what the container - unloaded gun, locked container, ammo carried separate from gun.

ok so its useless ... hehehehehe ... thanx :thumbsup:

[JTB]

You just need two of them

[10mmAuto]

Originally posted by JTB
You just need two of them

Negative.

Just the unloaded gun needs to be locked up and the ammo needs to be "stored" away from the gun.

For instance, you could lock up the gun in the container, but keep ammo in the glove compartment all day long.

OR:

You could keep the gun locked up in the container and store the ammo on your person, or anywhere in the car. The ammo don't need to be locked up. It just has to be outside the locked container where the gun is.

Suppose one had the locked box in the center console of the car. His UNLOADED hand gun could be inside, while he has a loaded magazine in the door pocket, pants pocket, front seat, glove compartment, dash board, or whereever.....

Just keep the two seperated at all time (until needed) and the gun locked up until you arrive at your destination.

[FLuXmr2spyder]

what if hypothetically u are gettin car jacked, really doesnt give u much time to unlock the box, grab the gun, open glove compartment load the clip in the gun and then shoot ... by the time i get it goin my car would me a mile away or worse i could be already dead?


and as far as seperating the gun from the ammo, i can have the gun in the center console unlocked and the loaded mags in the door pockets?


and can u store unloaded clips with your gun while transporting from home to range?

also if i have a CCW can i pretty much carry anywhere all day?

[Quiet]

Originally posted by FLuXmr2spyder
what if hypothetically u are gettin car jacked, really doesnt give u much time to unlock the box, grab the gun, open glove compartment load the clip in the gun and then shoot ... by the time i get it goin my car would me a mile away or worse i could be already dead?


and as far as seperating the gun from the ammo, i can have the gun in the center console unlocked and the loaded mags in the door pockets?


and can u store unloaded clips with your gun while transporting from home to range?

also if i have a CCW can i pretty much carry anywhere all day?
Drive away.

Gun needs to be in a locked container.

Yes, you can store unloaded magazines within the same container as the gun.

If you have a CCW permit, you can carry on your person the handgun(s) listed on your permit 24/7 except in places prohibited by the state/county.

[FLuXmr2spyder]

OK got it, thank you again :thumbsup:

[Juliet Lima]

Originally posted by 10mmAuto

Suppose one had the locked box in the center console of the car. His UNLOADED hand gun could be inside, while he has a loaded magazine in the door pocket, pants pocket, front seat, glove compartment, dash board, or whereever.....


Not true. In California, a loaded magazine is considered a loaded weapon.

[10mmAuto]

Originally posted by Juliet Lima
Not true. In California, a loaded magazine is considered a loaded weapon.

Bullschit. You are wrong. If the magazine is kept seperately from the gun, you are legal.

[Juliet Lima]

Originally posted by 10mmAuto
Bullschit. You are wrong. If the magazine is kept seperately from the gun, you are legal.

Alright, now I might be doubting myself.

Anyway here is what I thought:
LOADED MAGAZINE = LOADED WEAPON. Therefore, you cannot drive in your vehicle with a loaded magazine regardless of whether or not your gun is with it or not. Heck you can have NO gun in you vehicle at all and have a loaded magazine and still be in trouble.

I'm gonna find some official word through CA DOJ and see what it really says.

[Quiet]

Loaded magazine = loaded gun or not loaded gun?

It's a wobbler.

If you are a "gang member", a loaded magazine = loaded gun.
If you are not a "gang member", a loaded magazine = not loaded gun.

I find it's mostly up to the discreation of the LEO.

[FLuXmr2spyder]

deng u all got me confused?

so what is it really?

[M4inCA]

AFAIK there is no "wordage" that would prevent you from having loaded magazines...

PROVIDED!!!!!!

the magazines are NOT in the same locked container as the weapon!

Lastly, you are NOT REQUIRED to open a LOCKED container. IF you consent to a search, they have the right to open it.

NEVER NEVER NEVER consent to a search unless the officer has CLEAR probable cause. (read - you shouldn't own a gun for a number of reasons). All you are doing is making the officers job easy.

IF and ONLY IF the officer arrests you or impounds your vehicle, they must have a clear defined reason for it. Just because you refused to consent does NOT mean that is the cause.

CYA!! Lock both items in seperate containers!!

Oh yea, I forgot...

You can have that locking safe in your car, BUT you may not place it within reach of the driver.

[FLuXmr2spyder]

good to know thanx

[Quiet]

Penal Code 12031(g) states "A firearm is deemed loaded when there is a live cartridge or shell in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm. A muzzle-loading firearm is deemed loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder."

So, a loaded magazine not attached to a firearm is not considered a loaded firearm.

However, for the purposes of Penal Code section 12023 (commission or attempted commission of a felony while armed with a loaded firearm), a firearm is deemed loaded when both the firearm and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in the immediate possession of the same person.

So, a loaded magazine not attached to a firearm is considered a loaded weapon, when the loaded magazine & the firearm are in the same proximity of each other.

Therefore, yes, you can have loaded magazines but make sure they are not stored in the same locked container as the firearm and don't break the law while you are transporting a firearm & loaded magazine.


Under Penal Code 12031(e), "In order to determine whether a firearm is loaded, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place, on any public street, or in any prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to these provisions is, in itself, grounds for arrest."

So, if you tell a LEO you have a firearm, they now have the legal authority to search for & examine that firearm in order to determine if it is unloaded & legal. Refusal to do so, gives the LEO the authority to place you under arrest.

[Wulfenite]

Originally posted by 10mmAuto

Suppose one had the locked box in the center console of the car. His UNLOADED hand gun could be inside, while he has a loaded magazine in the door pocket, pants pocket, front seat, glove compartment, dash board, or whereever.....

Be Careful! There's also a law regarding use of the "utility or glove compartment" for storage/transport.

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm: (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment. (2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container. (b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter. (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

I've never heard of a definitive test case on whether a locked container inside the utility or glove compartment would be in compliance or not. Or even whether a center console compartment or door compartment is the equivalent of a "utility or glove" compartment. If you're going to get a separate security box, you'd be better off mounting it under the seat or in front of the drivers seat and cover it with the floor mat.

[DESERTDUDE]

Jesus I feel sorry for you guys. I went over the fence in 93 I have never been back even to visit.. Nothing feels better than walking around the mall wth my family here in Arizona knowing that G27 is tucked away safe. I truly feel for you guys and gals. :(

[M4inCA]

Desert - I know what you mean. I love visiting AZ because I can legally carry any of my G's to protect my family. But I guess it also helps that my Bro-in-law is PD there... :banana:


Quiet - Remember, you have the RIGHT to remain silent, maybe not the ability, but the right! I have been pulled over MANY times while transporting my weapons and not once did I have the need or reason to let the officer know there were guns in the vehicle. As long as they are not in plain view or within reach, keep your mouth shut.

IF the officer asks if you have weapons in the car, then it is up to you what you say. I will not tell you what or what not to say.

GL to all :thumbsup: