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LittleLebowski
05-23-2007, 11:00
I was shot in an negligent discharge by one of my co-workers. Not my fault, I was driving, etc... but my company is doing an investigation and I'm worried. Any gun friendly lawyers in or around Fairfax?

alien-Glocker
05-23-2007, 13:47
VCDL ( www.vcdl.org ) has a link on their website to a list of lawyers:

Link: http://www.hkshooter.net/lawyers/

There are several listed in Northern VA.

Perhaps others can provide more specific comments.

vafish
05-24-2007, 07:17
Richard Gardiner,

VCDL's corporate attorney, has argued gun cases before the SCOTUS, teaches legal portion of CCW class at our gun club.

You can't get much more pro-gun than he is.

Not cheap though.


But I carry his phone number in case I need a lawyer in relation to a shooting.


http://www.lawyers.com/gardiner/



Edited to add: He's also the attorney that Senator Webb's assistant called to get out of trouble in DC.

LittleLebowski
05-24-2007, 14:58
I spoke with Mr Gardiner. It was nice of him to take time out of his day to answer random questions over the phone.

It's fine now, people. No charges, no muss, no fuss. I can go back to healing after having a 230 grain hollowpoint go through my right elbow.

vafish
05-25-2007, 07:04
Originally posted by LittleLebowski
I spoke with Mr Gardiner. It was nice of him to take time out of his day to answer random questions over the phone.

It's fine now, people. No charges, no muss, no fuss. I can go back to healing after having a 230 grain hollowpoint go through my right elbow.

He was that way when I called him after first getting my permit. Spent about 10 mins with me on the phone, gave me advice on what he wanted me to do if I was involved in a shooting.

Heal up fast!

Have you been practicing shooting with your left hand?

Oh and I would consider suing your co-worker who shot you.

LittleLebowski
05-25-2007, 07:57
I'm going to get into 50 yard rimfire. I'm not suing, it was an accident. I may ask him to pay what insurance doesn't.

vafish
05-25-2007, 18:07
Originally posted by LittleLebowski
I'm going to get into 50 yard rimfire. I'm not suing, it was an accident. I may ask him to pay what insurance doesn't.

Match at Fairfax Rod and Gun club if you heal up by June 2-3.

LittleLebowski
05-25-2007, 19:46
If it's benchrest, I'm in. Otherwise, I cannot do standing at this time. 17 pins, 3 plates, and a bit of a surgical drill in me not to mention the still broken bone.

stooxie
05-26-2007, 07:25
Originally posted by LittleLebowski
I spoke with Mr Gardiner. It was nice of him to take time out of his day to answer random questions over the phone.

It's fine now, people. No charges, no muss, no fuss. I can go back to healing after having a 230 grain hollowpoint go through my right elbow.

Yikes... What happened?

On a lighter note, at least we know a .45 to the elbow won't take off your arm!

-Stooxie

vafish
05-26-2007, 16:58
Originally posted by LittleLebowski
If it's benchrest, I'm in. Otherwise, I cannot do standing at this time. 17 pins, 3 plates, and a bit of a surgical drill in me not to mention the still broken bone.

Nahh... it's 3 position. There's a big prone match in the fall.

LittleLebowski
05-27-2007, 08:30
Here's the link (http://www.tacticalunderground.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4458) to what happened. I'm not much for a lot of typing right now. Read it all the way through for gory pics :supergrin:

OK, who wants to meet at the NRA range next week to teach me all about rimfire?

A .45 hollowpoint can't keep me from shooting!

frefoo
05-27-2007, 17:19
LittleLebowski1,

First of all I am glad you are alive. That was a close call I am glad the ND did not result in a loss of life.

That said....

I hope I don't come off sounding like a Troll....

But I have to ask, "What the hell were you thinking"?

You let a newbie access to your firearms, and did not provide the proper supervision to make sure you did not get shot?

When a friend and I take co-workers to a range, the first thing we/range officers do is teach them about trigger control. (If their finger is not on the trigger they can't shoot you can they)?

Having a co-worker "play" with your firearm, pick up a mag, lock and load, and shoot you is pure negligence on your part.

LittleLebowski
05-27-2007, 18:17
frefoo, you weren't there. Yeah, I guess I should have had a lock on each and every gun and ammo separate and maybe even eyes in the back of my head to see if he was going to take a weapon out of the bag, insert a mag, and rack the slide with his finger on the trigger.

All of your range advice is very illuminating. In 8 years in the Marine Corps Infantry, I never heard of such wisdom.

Or maybe, I had gone shooting with the guy, taught him the safety rules myself, and watched him take the written test at the NRA?

It's so easy to second guess and play range officer, isn't it? Did it ever occur to you after losing part of my right arm, undergoing some pretty hard core pain, looking forward to a year of therapy that I might have had some second thoughts as well? In fact, I swore anyone that isn't family or hasn't graduated Marine Corps Boot Camp won't handle my weapons around me. That may exclude you, even an super duper elite range officer. Did you take the time to read that I was freaking DRIVING at the time and had NO idea he was touching the danged firearm?

I don't like you and get the hell out of my thread. Go play armchair "I told you so" somewhere else. I've been shot, I was a Marine, I've been a few places and done a few things, I'm over 30, and I don't need you coming in here on a high horse when this could have happened to you or anyone. Go away.

frefoo
05-27-2007, 18:57
Nice play with the Absolute Moral Authority card (I was shot feel sorry for me). It may bring you sympathy with some people but frankly it does not with me.

From your own link you stated that you allowed the firearm you own (Kimber .45) to get out of your control and some newbie shot you (and you claim it was not your fault).

I am sorry you got shot, I am glad that you are alive, however before I place blame on the newbie, you did mess up and perhaps you should learn from it.

Just a thought.

frefoo
05-27-2007, 19:03
BTW...

"I don't like you and get the hell out of my thread."

I thought this was glocktalks thread not yours.

BTW I don't like you either, after reading just one of the threads "you own".

LittleLebowski
05-27-2007, 19:31
Listen, Armchair Quarterback, EVERY time you turn your back on a weapon, you give someone else a chance to grab it. It was in a case. Do you understand that? Go to Iraq and do a little armchair quarterbacking there. Your range officer title doesn't impress me.

frefoo
05-27-2007, 19:45
Originally posted by LittleLebowski
Listen, Armchair Quarterback, EVERY time you turn your back on a weapon, you give someone else a chance to grab it. It was in a case. Do you understand that? Go to Iraq and do a little armchair quarterbacking there. Your range officer title doesn't impress me.

Dude you are digging you own grave...

While in a car (not a combat area like Iraq)...

You were distracted long enough that a passenger managed to remove your Kimber from a hard case "lock and load" and shoot you in the elbow...

Just for the record (and if you searched the posts you would know that I am not a "range officer".

I will gladly show my DD-214 to anyone if needed.

vafish
05-27-2007, 20:59
Originally posted by vafish
Match at Fairfax Rod and Gun club if you heal up by June 2-3.

Looked at those pics, YUCK!!

You'll be lucky to have healed up by this fall.

LittleLebowski
05-27-2007, 21:33
I was not playing the sympathy card, I was saying I certainly have a reminder. This can happen to you tomorrow. In a range. I wasn't distracted, I was driving. I had no idea anything was going on. If you read my post again, you'll see I've upped my standards a bit. And lecturing me isn't ever going to do as much as actually being shot did for me. Everybody else saw that; you had to get on your high horse. And one more, time, this could happen to someone at a range. Cops shoot each other and themselves all of the time. Google NYPD trigger for example. Glock was sued many times for officers not realizing that safety lies between the ears. Meanwhile, I'll do my therapy and shoot .22 rimfire.

frefoo
05-27-2007, 21:52
Originally posted by LittleLebowski
I was not playing the sympathy card, I was saying I certainly have a reminder. This can happen to you tomorrow. In a range. I wasn't distracted, I was driving. I had no idea anything was going on. If you read my post again, you'll see I've upped my standards a bit. And lecturing me isn't ever going to do as much as actually being shot did for me. Everybody else saw that; you had to get on your high horse. And one more, time, this could happen to someone at a range. Cops shoot each other and themselves all of the time. Google NYPD trigger for example. Glock was sued many times for officers not realizing that safety lies between the ears. Meanwhile, I'll do my therapy and shoot .22 rimfire.

And what do the facts mean that someone shot YOU with YOUR own Kimber .45 while you were driving and somehow YOU were not part of the blame?

Just bringing up a "reminder" to my initial post.

frefoo
05-27-2007, 22:36
If it is not obvious yet...I call BS

stooxie
05-28-2007, 04:17
Come on guys, take it easy.

I think Frefroo is confused as to how someone would not hear the magazine get inserted, the slide racked, etc. I had similar thoughts.

Then again, as Littlelebowski says, we weren't there.

The reason people get upset at these ND's is that we're all so dang twitchy about gun grabbers.

Anyway, what's done is done in this case and it sounds like LL has all the reminders he needs to do things differently.

I can't even imagine the pain he went through, or is going through now.

So, back on topic, and to dive into the macabre...

What bullet was it? GD? Hydrashock? Did the docs give it back to you? Kinda gross, but we don't get many "real world" expansion tests.

-Stooxie

LittleLebowski
05-28-2007, 10:08
I didn't say I wasn't part of the blame ever and I did say I was changing my SOP. I also said I have a very strong reminder every time I move my arm. And I did not hear anything until I heard a pop! and saw my arm hanging down all wrong. I was talking to the passenger, we were one block away from the range.

On the emergency room table, as the guy was crying and I was bleeding, I comforted him, forgave him, and told him I was partly to blame. I signed a paper with the police saying I did not want to press charges. I went to bat for the guy with my HR dept at work as well.

I really can't believe I'm being criticized for not hearing a slide racked. Internet commandos/armchair quarterbacking at its finest.

Call me a liar to my face in a year, frefoo.

rob99vmi04
05-30-2007, 13:24
Dumb Question. What happened to the projectile? I'm just wondering what it penetrated and where it went. Sorry to hear what happened.

LittleLebowski
05-30-2007, 20:36
It's all in the link I posted but the round was a Winchester White box 230 grain hollowpoint. It went through my elbow and bounced off my ribs, bruising me pretty good. I still have a lot of bone fragments and bullet fragments in me but the Fairfax Police have promised to get the main body of the bullet back to me which I intend to make into a plaque with the 4 rules of firearms safety.

golai
05-31-2007, 20:12
Originally posted by frefoo
If it is not obvious yet...I call BS

No offense, but you're being kind of a d**k.

LittleLebowski
05-31-2007, 20:15
Agreed. Actually, I've posted this on several gun oriented forums and everyone said they felt bad for me and they all said we need to step back and think a bit more about safety. Only one pompous jerk out of literally hundreds of people.

I'll be at the NRA range next week with my new 10/22 I've been customizing this week.

golai
05-31-2007, 20:18
Originally posted by LittleLebowski
Agreed. Actually, I've posted this on several gun oriented forums and everyone said they felt bad for me and they all said we need to step back and think a bit more about safety. Only one pompous jerk out of literally hundreds of people.

I'll be at the NRA range next week with my new 10/22 I've been customizing this week.

Well I hope you heal well and get back into fighting form. Good luck with your recovery.

Redsaber76
06-12-2007, 22:13
"I don't mean to be a troll but..."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/DoNotFeedTroll.jpg

Get well soon!

det.pat
06-13-2007, 19:41
hi leb, saw the post over at home, what an asshat!
mpi

jetsiphon
06-13-2007, 22:25
It's ok.....when somebody comes into my house, picks up my nightstand gun and plugs me in the belly or leg....it'll be my fault too.

I can't believe you were actually in a vehicle, carrying on a conversation, paying attention to the road you could have actually NOT heard the gun being charged. Gah, you need a hearing aide you deaf bastard!

:upeyes:

Get well Lebowski. It's often tough to see things through the eyes of somebody in the real world over a beer belly when you're fully reclined.

Da Law
06-14-2007, 23:04
Hi LL.

Sorry that Frefoo guy was less than understanding of your situation. I would still trust you around my firearms bro.

See you at the hotel.

Mr. Player
09-07-2007, 21:59
I have never gotten in a fight on the internet. You know why? Cause if I don't have anything nice to say I don't say anything at all.
Frefoo how are your comments benifiting anybody?

Personally, I feel bad for LL and hope he has a good recovery.